The REAL 1977 Tour

[Dirigible]

Some, not all, of those among us who never saw Led Zeppelin in concert are habitually slagging this tour and that show judging either solely from bootlegs, or the questionable opinions of writers of books/magazine articles, or both. This is about the 1977 tour in particular. If you have something to say about any other tours please feel welcome to post it in this thread if it pertains to the point I'm attempting to make.

Fact: Our Ledded ones NEVER did a half-assed tour.

Fact: The 1977 shows kicked ass. Period, fini, game over.

Question: Is there anyone reading who saw the band perform in 1977 and thought the show sucked? I doubt it very much, but if you did I respect your opinion.

Question: Do you believe everything you hear and read? We all know the answer to that.

Nobody said it better than LedZep4Ever said about '77: "You just had to have been there." I like Zep books and bootlegs as much as anybody, but let's get real here and be serious. Those individuals who never saw the band can only envision them vicariously through said books and bootlegs. Fair enough, but it's wearying reading posts speculating about how '77 was lame-o, the band wasn't firing on all four cylinders, Plant's voice was shot, Page was sick again, bad karma surrounded the group and and other heresies they know little about; it's not even secondhand news in most cases, more often than not it's so far removed from the source and the truth to be dogma. I'm not saying I fucking know if any of what's shuttling back and forth is true or false myself. What I AM saying is: who among the naysayers was actually acquainted with the band members, Cole, Grant, and hangers-on in the entourage and accompanied them on the road for all or part of the '77 tour? Answer: not a bloody one of those who've been spewing negative opinions of the tour. If you'd've been there you'd've likely dug the music, the scene, the cola and all the other stuff that may or may not have gone hand-in-hand with it. I also wouldn't buy into lurid tales of groupies who allegedly let Page, Plant, Bonham or Jones roll them over on their tummies and 'do what thou wilt' with them either. For the most part that equates to letting folks like Stephen Davis, Luis Rey, Richard Cole (via their books), hack magazine writers and starfuckers do your thinking for you.

With all due respect I know some of you know better.

I've said this before so forgive my saying it again: I have soundboards of three of the LZ shows I attended and the tapes are disappointing compared to the visceral power that hit you in the ears (and chest) from the stage. Trust me, the difference between the concert and the teensy-weensy piece of thin tape of the concert is night and day. I know how well-attuned your ears are, but they hear one thing when the fact of the matter is experiencing the performance in person is something else entirely. You need only compare the audience tape to the soundboard of Seattle '73 to realize what I'm saying is true. Mistakes evident on the soundboard are unheard in the audience boot, or are so reduced as to become minute, meaningless. You're letting what you perceive as sloppiness or mistakes spoil an entire string of tour dates for you and that's just wrong.

Those who were born too late to have seen Zep live need to readjust their judgments and especially their DICTION. If you didn't see this or that tour then you need to clarify what you REALLY mean is---the '75 bootlegs were better than the '77 bootlegs but they were on fire on the '72 bootlegs except I liked the bootlegs from 1970 best or what have you.

Substituting the word 'tour' for 'bootleg' simply isn't on.

[greenman]

While you may dislike it decent quality bootlegs don't lie, that said I do think people overlook the more visual nature of the show(espeically during MD and pages solo) aswell as being overly critical. Not so much here but elsewhere I see alot of people who want to avoid being labeled as "fanboys" who will priase anything Zep did so overcompensate. For me 77 was probabley the worst tour they'd done up until that point but outside a handful of poor shows still very entertaining and better than what most bands were producing.

[ZeppFanForever]

Some, not all, of those among us who never saw Led Zeppelin in concert are habitually slagging this tour and that show judging either solely from bootlegs, or the questionable opinions of writers of books/magazine articles, or both. This is about the 1977 tour in particular. If you have something to say about any other tours please feel welcome to post it in this thread if it pertains to the point I'm attempting to make.

Fact: Our Ledded ones NEVER did a half-assed tour.

Fact: The 1977 shows kicked ass. Period, fini, game over.

Question: Is there anyone reading who saw the band perform in 1977 and thought the show sucked? I doubt it very much, but if you did I respect your opinion.

Question: Do you believe everything you hear and read? We all the answer to that.

Nobody said it better than LedZep4Ever said about '77: "You just had to have been there." I like Zep books and bootlegs as much as anybody, but let's get real here and be serious. Those individuals who never saw the band can only envision them vicariously through said books and bootlegs. Fair enough, but it's wearying reading posts speculating about how '77 was lame-o, the band wasn't firing on all four cylinders, Plant's voice was shot, Page was sick again, bad karma surrounded the group and and other heresies they know little about; it's not even secondhand news in most cases, more often than not it's so far removed from the source and the truth to be dogma. I'm not saying I fucking know if any of what's shuttling back and forth is true or false myself. What I AM saying is: who among the naysayers was actually acquainted with the band members, Cole, Grant, and hangers-on in the entourage and accompanied them on the road for all or part of the '77 tour? Answer: not a bloody one of those who've been spewing negative opinions of the tour. If you'd've been there you'd've likely dug the music, the scene, the cola and all the other stuff that may or may not have gone hand-in-hand with it. I also wouldn't buy into lurid tales of groupies who allegedly let Page, Plant, Bonham or Jones roll them over on their tummies and 'do what thou wilt' with them either. For the most part that equates to letting folks like Stephen Davis, Luis Rey, Richard Cole (via their books), hack magazine writers and starfuckers do your thinking for you.

With all due respect I know some of you know better.

I've said this before so forgive my saying it again: I have soundboards of three of the LZ shows I attended and the tapes are disappointing compared to the visceral power that hit you in the ears (and chest) from the stage. Trust me, the difference between the concert and the teensy-weensy piece of thin tape of the concert is night and day. I know how well-attuned your ears are, but they hear one thing when the fact of the matter is experiencing the performance in person is something else entirely. You need only compare the audience tape to the soundboard of Seattle '73 to realize what I'm saying is true. Mistakes evident on the soundboard are unheard in the audience boot, or are so reduced as to become minute, meaningless. You're letting what you perceive as sloppiness or mistakes spoil an entire string of tour dates for you and that's just wrong.

Those who were born too late to have seen Zep live need to readjust their judgments and especially their DICTION. If you didn't see this or that tour then you need to clarify what you REALLY mean is---the '75 bootlegs were better than the '77 bootlegs but they were on fire on the '72 bootlegs except I liked the bootlegs from 1970 best or what have you.

Substituting the word 'tour' for 'bootleg' simply isn't on.

How's it going "Dirigible" as well as our fellow die hard hard core ZEPPELIN fanatics? I hope that the week has treated all of you well. "Dirigible," it is actually hard when comparing bootlegs to the actual experience of being at a live LED ZEPPELIN concert. Like many here on the forum, I am a veteran of attending two live LED ZEPPELIN concerts, The Forum in Los Angeles, California on 23 June 1977 and one month later at the Oakland Coliseum in Oakland, California on 23 July 1977. The comments that I am making here do not mean that I do not love LED ZEPPELIN because I will always love them no matter what.

FACT: As much as I hate to say this but our beloved LEDDED ones DID do a few half-assed shows during the last leg of the 1977 tour. I did see The Forum show on 23 June 1977 and in my opinion, that show was perhaps one of the greatest shows that ZEPPELIN ever gave in their whole career including the whole 1977 tour. After that show, they moved on to the Kingdome in Seattle Washington on 17 July 1977. I did not see this show, but seeing this show on DVD with excellent picture and sound quality, the band was not 100% nor were they in top form. Pagey and Bonzo were both in bad shape as a result of their heroin abuse. I did not see the Phoenix (Tempe), Arizona show on 20 July 1977 but I did see the first Oakland show on 23 July 1977 and I must say, this show was worse than the Seattle Kingdome show on 17 July 1977. By this time, the heroin abuse was evidently taking its toll on both Bonzo and Pagey. When I saw Pagey, he looked absolutely awful. Pagey sat down during some of the songs since he was not really standing very straight and upright. According to a friend of mine who was present, the second Oakland show on 24 July 1977 was worse than the 23 July 1977 show. From what my friend told me, Jimmy sat down through the majority of the concert since he could not hardly stand up. Believe me, it kills me to say anything bad about ZEPPELIN but I was there, I saw ZEPPELIN towards the end and they were not 100%. On a good note, in my opinion, the 02 Arena performance on 10 December 2007 sounded even better than some of the shows that they performed in 1977. The reason: Jimmy was clean and off heroin.

FACT: The majority of their shows kicked ass! LED ZEPPELIN had some great glorious nights and they had some bad ones. No one's perfect! The beginning of the 1977 Tour and the second leg of the tour highlighted some of the greatest moments for the band. By the third leg, the band was beginning to show some signs of fatigue and wear and tear as a result of Bonzo's and Pagey's serious drug and alcohol abuse. Please remember that LED ZEPPELIN was touring non-stop. Mixing excessive touring with alcohol and drugs along with lack of sleep, the band was heading for a collapse. I will never know how they made it as far as they did other than their passion for their music. LED ZEPPELIN had a lot of heart, and thats what carried them through up to 24 July 1977.

QUESTION: Is there anyone reading who saw the band perform in 1977 and thought the show sucked? All of you have read my opinions. However, I WILL NEVER SAY TO ANYONE THAT LED ZEPPELIN'S SHOWS SUCKED! LED ZEPPELIN may have had some off nights and were evidently not 100% during some of their performances but I will never say that ZEPPELIN sucked. We all know the truth of what the mighty LED ZEPPELIN is really truly capable of doing on stage. They were the single greatest four man live act on earth that represented Rock n' Roll during one of its greatest hours and moments! Its just too bad that Pagey and Bonzo lost a little control towards the end of the 1977 tour as a result of their alcohol and drug abuse. Doing that, as a result, as much as it pains me to say, their music suffered. We are all well aware of what happened in the LED ZEPPELIN saga after the first Oakland 23 July 1977 show, the worse was yet to come. I know that many of you may or may not agree with my observation but it is just my opinion.

In closing, despite the fatalities and bad tribulations that LED ZEPPELIN has been plagued with as well as experienced throughout their long and glorious career, I am very thankful that there are many young men and women that love LED ZEPPELIN and yet, were not even born during their reign. In reality, it is the young ones of today and tomorrow that will keep LED ZEPPELIN'S legend and legacy alive. LED ZEPPELIN WILL LIVE FOREVER! They're bigger today than in their heyday. The 02 Arena performance on 10 December 2007 proves that. ROCK ON!

[ally]

While you may dislike it decent quality bootlegs don't lie, that said I do think people overlook the more visual nature of the show(espeically during MD and pages solo) aswell as being overly critical. Not so much here but elsewhere I see alot of people who want to avoid being labeled as "fanboys" who will priase anything Zep did so overcompensate. For me 77 was probabley the worst tour they'd done up until that point but outside a handful of poor shows still very entertaining and better than what most bands were producing.

That's a pretty good analogy. I've posted many times on this subject and from an actual live experience, I can only speak about the Seattle show that I saw. Not the best show IMHO but, I may not be the right guy to tell anyone that. As I've said before, I was pretty much Zeppelin'd out by that point. To me, the show I saw was more about... crank it up so nobody will notice. You must remember, I'd already seen them at their best and although I don't doubt for a moment that there were some tremendous shows in 77, I didn't see one. That's just a fact . Were there moment's ? Absolutely but, from stricktly a playing point of view, I think it would be a safe bet to say that most of us who had seen the band in their prime, would have found that tour , somewhat disappointing as a live experience. Just my opinion BTW

[The Rover]

Some fo the best Zeppelin shows I've ever experienced live, were in 1977.

IF some shows were less than great.... I did not see those shows.... in 1977....

With the exception of the opening show in Dallas. Fact is, Zep were rusty, Page hadn't picked up guotar for a month....

But all was forgiven, after seein them in Houston and Ft. Worth.

As to what bootleags reveal..... I'd only want to listen to the best performance/best recording boots, whatever those may be....

But I would not trade the BEST Boot of any show, for the rememberance of experiencing a Great Led Zeppelin show live, in person.

Since I have those memories.... I do not spend a lot time seeking out boots.... not that others shouldn't.... it's just not what I an doing.

I figure, if somthing's great regarding Zeppelin, it will surface, and a good transfer will be digitally made, and it will be great whenever I get around to hearing it, whether it's next month....or the next decade !

[Dirigible]

When I posted late last night before going to bed I thought I'd wake up to find myself crucified with indignant comments regarding this topic. Everyone's been very civilized however (so far) so hopefully some truly informed exchanges of opinion and dialogue will prevail, without pettiness or namecalling. But a little mudslinging is always fun to read, like two kids fighting on a playground will always attract onlookers.

While you may dislike it decent quality bootlegs don't lie, that said I do think people overlook the more visual nature of the show(especially during MD and pages solo) aswell as being overly critical. Not so much here but elsewhere I see alot of people who want to avoid being labeled as "fanboys" who will priase anything Zep did so overcompensate. For me 77 was probabley the worst tour they'd done up until that point but outside a handful of poor shows still very entertaining and better than what most bands were producing.

To the contrary there's nothing I like better than a decent bootleg, but I know that's not what you're saying, greenman. Rest assured I've no intention of pretending to misinterpret your reply and giving you a cop-out bullshit answer (and I will not sidestep any issues raised by anyone).

Therefore I'm sticking to my guns on this: a tape recording ain't the big picture, the whole enchilada or full monty. As ZeppFanForever points out, seeing the show is half of it. Did Zeppelin mount any half-baked campaigns within the arenas of the world? Never. They were so talented they were incapable of playing a bad show in which every single song in the setlist sucked bigtime; that never happened, there were always high points to all five hundred and eighty something shows they played with John Bonham.

Every band is guilty of slopping out a song or two onstage, even Zep, and often there's a good reason behind it. Because of the nightmarish echo in some of those huge venues musicians can't always hear what their bandmates are playing. To quote Page: "I might've been three feet in the air when I played that lick." Jim meant jumping around while putting on a show, not being high as a Georgia pine; granted, being toasted cannot be factored out of the equation (and certainly doesn't improve the acoustics). Sometimes the player simply made a mistake, they're all human. Speaking as a musician myself I always cut 'em some slack.

Anyway this is the very heart of the point I'm trying to make: a few lackluster songs on a given night could never spoil a LZ concert (let alone an entire tour!) for me and, I suspect, you either, greenman. I also suspect from the way you worded your reply you did not get to see them live, forgive me if I'm wrong, but know I am quick to embrace your informed opinion. A few miscues are enough to have some raving lunatics raving the whole bloody show was putrid and (here's my favorite and you uttered the very words that raise my ire) that 1977 was 'the worst tour' they ever did. That sort of all-encompassing mutually exclusive statement made by people who didn't see a single 1977 tour stop are typical of short-sighted folks who usually have their thumb or head where it wasn't meant to be. Please don't take that last sentence personally, I did qualify it with typical and usually, but that's not always the case with everybody. You strike me as someone who isn't short-sighted so I'm not dissing you. Bootleg-itis is an odd malady effecting each of its victims differently, results will vary.

If someone's going to talk the talk and didn't see a '77 show in person I'm compelled to walk the walk. That's not lording it over anybody either ala I saw them and you didn't ha ha ha. I may be a lot of things but I'm not petty. Best regards, mate.

Like many here on the forum, I am a veteran of attending two live LED ZEPPELIN concerts, The Forum in Los Angeles, California on 23 June 1977 and one month later at the Oakland Coliseum in Oakland, California on 23 July 1977.

FACT: As much as I hate to say this but our beloved LEDDED ones DID do a few half-assed shows during the last leg of the 1977 tour. I did see The Forum show on 23 June 1977 and in my opinion, that show was perhaps one of the greatest shows that ZEPPELIN ever gave in their whole career including the whole 1977 tour.

When I saw Pagey, he looked absolutely awful. Pagey sat down during some of the songs since he was not really standing very straight and upright. According to a friend of mine who was present, the second Oakland show on 24 July 1977 was worse than the 23 July 1977 show. From what my friend told me, Jimmy sat down through the majority of the concert since he could not hardly stand up.

FACT: The majority of their shows kicked ass! LED ZEPPELIN had some great glorious nights and they had some bad ones. No one's perfect! The beginning of the 1977 Tour and the second leg of the tour highlighted some of the greatest moments for the band. By the third leg, the band was beginning to show some signs of fatigue and wear and tear as a result of Bonzo's and Pagey's serious drug and alcohol abuse.

I WILL NEVER SAY TO ANYONE THAT LED ZEPPELIN'S SHOWS SUCKED! LED ZEPPELIN may have had some off nights and were evidently not 100% during some of their performances but I will never say that ZEPPELIN sucked. We all know the truth of what the mighty LED ZEPPELIN is really truly capable of doing on stage. We are all well aware of what happened in the LED ZEPPELIN saga after the first Oakland 23 July 1977 show, the worse was yet to come. I know that many of you may or may not agree with my observation but it is just my opinion.

I promised to respect anyone's opinion who saw them, ZeppFanForever, and I respect you're well-worded carefully thought-out post. Thanks for the reply, but moreover thanks for the eyewitness account of the music, I saw two shows that I didn't think were great, in '69 and '71, when they were supposed to be invincible. What if Mike Millard had recorded the Oakland shows instead of the Los Angeles '77 tour stop? Outdoor concerts can be ruined by a strong wind blowing, indoor concerts by acoustics of the hall. I have the July 24, 1977 bootleg, whereas it's not a favorite of mine it sounds okay all things considered, but I readily admit I wasn't there to soak up the vibe and see how the band looked and played so I cheerfully defer to you regarding that particular show. Lots of the songs still rocked, didn't they?

I hate to venture into speculation about written accounts but sooner or later I'm going to have to. It's inevitible our opinions, mine included, are shaped by the written word. That being said the proverbial grain of salt needs to be considered along with using one's own head and reading between the lines. Maybe Bonzo saw one of Graham's goons smack 10-year-old Warren Grant, and the drummer kicked Graham's hired gun in the nuts, maybe not. I'd've done the same thing to an adult abusing a child too. What happened later between Grant and his staff and and Graham and his staff is all conjecture and didn't involve any band members. Possibly friction between Zep's manager and the Day On The Green's promoter had been festering long before 1977 and then again, maybe not. I wasn't privy to what actually went down. I've read two different accounts of the incident: the story titled The Wrong Goodbye in Rolling Stone, a San Francisco rag noted for Zep bashing {Graham's crew were also based in S.F.}, and Richard Cole's book. Both writers had a vested interest in what they committed to paper, i.e. both were being paid by their editors, who are notorious for making comments along the lines of: "Gimme some good copy, ya cluck, we've got books and magazines to sell, for God's sake, so heighten the drama a little, huh."

But I would not trade the BEST Boot of any show, for the rememberance of experiencing a Great Led Zeppelin show live, in person. Since I have those memories.... I do not spend a lot time seeking out boots.... not that others shouldn't.... it's just not what I an doing.

I've known The Rover personally decades before this site came to be and have had many an enjoyable protracted conversation with him on the subject of Led Zep. I'm not agreeing with him just because we're friends and his opinion mirrors mine in this instance; it so happens he knows what's he's talking about and he'd be the first to tell you we disagree on certain aspects regarding LZ. And he did see more Zep concerts than I (a fact I will always begrudge ). You can take his word to the bank, so any naysayers might wanta pay close attention to him when he has something on his mind.

[ocean]

was at all these shows FRONT ROW!!!

ok....1977 was a very different time than now...music and concerts were so different....I'm 50 now....and have seen more than 1000 shows in my lifetime...I still have most all of my ticket stubs....I really have seen almost everyone...most of 'em 5 to 100 times.with that said....

I waited 2 1/2 weeks in line...I was the very first person in line to buy tickets in the DC/MD area. Infact tickets were scheduled to go on sale at 10:00am Sat morning....and at 4:00am Sat...the police came and escorted the first 10 of us into the cap center and sold us our tickets...tickets were $9.50 with a .50 service charge...so the very first $10.00 concert tickets I'd ever bought. We were allowed to buy 10 tics for each of the 3 nights....I bought 10 front row center seats 3 nights in a row.... holy shit!!!!!!!!!!! The police then escorted me and my nine other friends...who bought the whole first 7 rows center out! ( as has been pointed out to me, we didn't buy the WHOLE first 7 rows, but almost), out to our cars because they were afraid we would be mugged.......honest absolute true story.......then I simply traded when they added a fourth night for another front row seat...I still have 3 of my four stubs...........THE SHOWS...............first let me say...I was, am probably still am, one of the biggest Zep heads ever....they were everything to me since 1969 when ZepI came out.... I was never then same again.....waiting in line over night each year to buy the albums as they were released....back to the shows... Upon the first show I didn't want to be wasted or drunk because I wanted to remember everything....they were late coming out...when the house lights went out....you have NEVER heard such a roar from a crowd...this wasn't a Beatles hysterical roar...this was pure blissful love screaming to our favorite muscians on the planet, who were literally 3 feet from my face....front row and I never got down off my chair....we stood on our chairs all 3 hours....singing every lyric.....it was insane...from the first notes of TSRTS....it was a dream come true this 18 year old!!

Things were so different as I said...we didn't know what they were gonna play...there was no internet to look up setlists....in fact there was no MTV and we never even got a glimpse of our heros other than Circus Mag, Rolling Stone, Crawdaddy.....we were totally enamored by their presense...it was so exciting....all 20,000 of us KNEW this was history......

4 nights...yes 4 nights...by the 4th night we were DISSAPPOINTED in our heros to be honest...they played the same songs each night...and Robert even said pretty much the same thing between songs.....or so it seemed as it was happening....listening to the boots now, we all know there were a couple differences...like Dancin Days..etc.....Jimmy was wasted...I mean wasted...on the 3rd night...after STH he held his double neck above his head and 2 roadies caught it just in time.....he needed to be carried off the stage.....

Another big event was some asshole shooting a bottle rocket on stage which caught Plant's shirt on fire, or at least smoldering.....and he ripped his shirt off, basically cursed the guy out...threatened to shut down and played shirtless for a while.....You can hear these plantations on the boot..also you've never seen such a cloud of pot smoke....you could cut it with a knife......

All that said almost 30 years ago.....still the BEST SHOWS I HAVE EVER SEEN....no one has ever come close.....the Who with Kieth Moon was close....but they were NO LED ZEPPELIN....

hope you enjoyed reading...I enjoyed remembering.

Damn I'll never forget it!

[Dirigible]

That's a pretty good analogy. I've posted many times on this subject and from an actual live experience, I can only speak about the Seattle show that I saw. Not the best show IMHO but, I may not be the right guy to tell anyone that. As I've said before, I was pretty much Zeppelin'd out by that point. To me, the show I saw was more about... crank it up so nobody will notice. You must remember, I'd already seen them at their best and although I don't doubt for a moment that there were some tremendous shows in 77, I didn't see one. That's just a fact . Were there moment's ? Absolutely but, from stricktly a playing point of view, I think it would be a safe bet to say that most of us who had seen the band in their prime, would have found that tour , somewhat disappointing as a live experience. Just my opinion BTW

As someone who has seen the band live, ally, you know well the difference between being there and listening to a bootleg. Thanks for your insights, I apologize for omitting your comments from my prior post, I meant to remark on them.

Ocean: you posted while I was writing, so I'm editing this to say I'm pretty dadgum green with envy. What a memory. The Landover soundboard of May 26, 1977 is my favorite soundboard of the tour, shoulder to shoulder with St. Millard's audience recordings. As far as bootlegs go, those sound better than the Houston soundboard of the concert I saw. Similar ticket line crap occurred there too.

[moffo]

When I posted late last night before going to bed I thought I'd wake up to find myself crucified with indignant comments regarding this topic. Everyone's been very civilized however (so far) so hopefully some truly informed exchanges of opinion and dialogue will prevail, without pettiness or namecalling. But a little mudslinging is always fun to read, like two kids fighting on a playground will always attract onlookers.

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT.....

[bigstickbonzo]

I think what further hurts the memory of the 77 tour, aside from Plant's ordeal, the drugs, the Tampa riot and the Oakland incident, was it was the last US Tour and it ended the way it did. America made Zeppelin into the juggernaut it was, and for them to go out on such a sour note, it only further blackens the memory of it.

Now, one can respectfully agree to disagree about any of the tours. I've posted my feelings towards the 75 tour in a few places before: Plant's voice was the worst it ever was in the 12 year span, Page's playing sluggish but incredible at times. It's already been alluded to that Page hadn't touched a guitar for a month during a break in 77 tour and could explain some of his rust, aside from the drugs. One element I always find missing in these conversations when comparing early to latter day Zeppelin is remember: in the early days, they toured and recorded constantly. They were playing constantly, so performance wise, they were always in top form. After the 73 NA tour, they began taking long breaks between tours so it was something they and we, the listener, were not used to. They were rusty!

The 77 tour has its moments for sure, not just some of the June LA shows. Did or has the tour lived up to the hype? I suppose it depends on who you ask. One thing is for sure: the cracks were showing by this tour, it just took matters out of the boys' hands to further bring the blimp down.

[moffo]

was at all these shows FRONT ROW!!!

ok....1977 was a very different time than now...music and concerts were so different....I'm 50 now....and have seen more than 1000 shows in my lifetime...I still have most all of my ticket stubs....I really have seen almost everyone...most of 'em 5 to 100 times.with that said....

I waited 2 1/2 weeks in line...I was the very first person in line to buy tickets in the DC/MD area. Infact tickets were scheduled to go on sale at 10:00am Sat morning....and at 4:00am Sat...the police came and escorted the first 10 of us into the cap center and sold us our tickets...tickets were $9.50 with a .50 service charge...so the very first $10.00 concert tickets I'd ever bought. We were allowed to buy 10 tics for each of the 3 nights....I bought 10 front row center seats 3 nights in a row.... holy shit!!!!!!!!!!! The police then escorted me and my nine other friends...who bought the whole first 7 rows center out! ( as has been pointed out to me, we didn't buy the WHOLE first 7 rows, but almost), out to our cars because they were afraid we would be mugged.......honest absolute true story.......then I simply traded when they added a fourth night for another front row seat...I still have 3 of my four stubs...........THE SHOWS...............first let me say...I was, am probably still am, one of the biggest Zep heads ever....they were everything to me since 1969 when ZepI came out.... I was never then same again.....waiting in line over night each year to buy the albums as they were released....back to the shows... Upon the first show I didn't want to be wasted or drunk because I wanted to remember everything....they were late coming out...when the house lights went out....you have NEVER heard such a roar from a crowd...this wasn't a Beatles hysterical roar...this was pure blissful love screaming to our favorite muscians on the planet, who were literally 3 feet from my face....front row and I never got down off my chair....we stood on our chairs all 3 hours....singing every lyric.....it was insane...from the first notes of TSRTS....it was a dream come true this 18 year old!!

Things were so different as I said...we didn't know what they were gonna play...there was no internet to look up setlists....in fact there was no MTV and we never even got a glimpse of our heros other than Circus Mag, Rolling Stone, Crawdaddy.....we were totally enamored by their presense...it was so exciting....all 20,000 of us KNEW this was history......

4 nights...yes 4 nights...by the 4th night we were DISSAPPOINTED in our heros to be honest...they played the same songs each night...and Robert even said pretty much the same thing between songs.....or so it seemed as it was happening....listening to the boots now, we all know there were a couple differences...like Dancin Days..etc.....Jimmy was wasted...I mean wasted...on the 3rd night...after STH he held his double neck above his head and 2 roadies caught it just in time.....he needed to be carried off the stage.....

Another big event was some asshole shooting a bottle rocket on stage which caught Plant's shirt on fire, or at least smoldering.....and he ripped his shirt off, basically cursed the guy out...threatened to shut down and played shirtless for a while.....You can hear these plantations on the boot..also you've never seen such a cloud of pot smoke....you could cut it with a knife......

All that said almost 30 years ago.....still the BEST SHOWS I HAVE EVER SEEN....no one has ever come close.....the Who with Kieth Moon was close....but they were NO LED ZEPPELIN....

hope you enjoyed reading...I enjoyed remembering.

Damn I'll never forget it!

It's after reading stories like this that I wish even more so that I was around in the late 60's/70's. Being born in '74 in the pokey north of England can be a right pisser at times!!!!

[Dirigible]

When I posted late last night before going to bed I thought I'd wake up to find myself crucified with indignant comments regarding this topic. Everyone's been very civilized however (so far) so hopefully some truly informed exchanges of opinion and dialogue will prevail, without pettiness or namecalling. But a little mudslinging is always fun to read, like two kids fighting on a playground will always attract onlookers.

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT.....

Good one, moffo, you ol' rabble rouser. Better to have mud than blood on one's hands.

[ocean]

After listening to 5/30/77 Capital Center again...........

After Sick Again ...Robert asks all the folks lighting fireworks to cool it. We can have a competition to see who is louder us or those things....so cool it.

Then they play NFBM.....song ends

Plantations

"I've heard of magic. That wasn't magical though. It got my blood pressure rising a bit. I've gotten undressed before small parties in the past, but never before 22,000 people. So I think I'm gonna get dressed again."

This was because some asshole shot a bottle rocket that hit Robert's shirt and actually caught it on fire. Robert handled things with more grace then is imaginable.This show DEFINATELY is ONE OF THE BEST shows of the whole 77 tour. It may be the best No Quarter, and Achiles is spot on...especially compared to the train wreck on Bringing Down the House(the first night here)

What a four night run! I do feel so lucky!

Also during on these boots...right before 10 yrs gone, Robert says "Just in case we forget the name, right" He's actually talking to me and my buddy holding a huge banner I painted, which read, If the sun refused to shine, WE would still be loving you" and had a Zeppelin exploding with portraits of each of the band on a piece of the Zeppelin. And said Led Zeppelin across the bottom.

[Wolfman]

I love the '77 tour because it had the best setlist IMO. The band was fine except Page was hit or BIG miss from not only show to show but from song to song. One song he'd sound great and the next he sound like complete crap. It's a shame too because JPJ and Bonzo were peaking on this tour. Too bad Jimmy wasn't peaking with them. The '77 tour could have been not only their greatest tour but perhaps the greatest tour of any band ever. Just imagine the Jimmy of 1973 playing with the JPJ/Bonzo of 1977.

[bigstickbonzo]

^ Nicely said Wolfman.

[EzyEric]

Wow, some amazing stories. Thanks for sharing.

I'm only 25 so I never saw Zeppelin but I think I'm entitled to an opinion and you already said some of this in this thread. As an audience member in such venues you cannot really hear mistakes and the whole experience, in general, being so grand can surely distract you from the details of the audio alone. And that is how its supposed to be, you don't go just to hear Zeppelin, you go to see them, experience the atmosphere and all. And even if you did hear it all as clear as it possibly could be at the time, would you remember such minute details of exactly the way Page played this part of this solo, not likely. I dont know about you but I usually cant even remember a setlist correctly immediately after a show. I just remember how good this or that was or anything that stood out, especially visually. I do know particular details of certain parts of certain versions of a song, but that is from repeatably listening to it.

That being said I think the best way to really judge how they sounded is recordings. In our case thats mostly bootlegs. Even if the quality is not that good, sound is flat, or its a bad quality recording you can still notice a lot. Take Bath for example, terrible recording, but its regarded as one of the best performances. And on very good recordings, especially soundboards you can notice the little things, like mistakes. And for songs that do not differ much from night to night, without that detail you could probably not notice the differences that make one version better, as those differences are usually very subtle.

I think if you took an above average fan (with good ears) who was never at a Zeppelin show and had them listen to recordings from each tour , in chronological order they would be able to detect how the sound of the band changed as well as when they were the most "on" and consistent. Those that bash particular shows or tours are usually going by this evidence.

Now I think the point here is that seeing Zeppelin live in person is completely different than listening to a recording.

And if we did not have any recordings we probably wouldn't know how good they actually were as the majority of people that saw them, any year, would simply say they were amazing.

Oh and if I could go back in time to see any Zeppelin show it would indeed be 6/21 or 6/23 of 1977.

[greenman]

To the contrary there's nothing I like better than a decent bootleg, but I know that's not what you're saying, greenman. Rest assured I've no intention of pretending to misinterpret your reply and giving you a cop-out bullshit answer (and I will not sidestep any issues raised by anyone).

Therefore I'm sticking to my guns on this: a tape recording ain't the big picture, the whole enchilada or full monty. As ZeppFanForever points out, seeing the show is half of it. Did Zeppelin mount any half-baked campaigns within the arenas of the world? Never. They were so talented they were incapable of playing a bad show in which every single song in the setlist sucked bigtime; that never happened, there were always high points to all five hundred and eighty something shows they played with John Bonham.

As I said I don't think the boots lie and ultimately Zep were mostly about the performance even in 77. Not that most shows I'v heard were "bad" but they were not for me as good as what had come before although NQ was almost always great.

Ontop of being afraid of being viewed as fanboys who can't be critical of there favourite band I do think Zep fans music tastes have an effect aswell. Seems to me that most boot collectors are fans of bands like the Allmans, Deep Purple, Clapton etc, bands that valued cleaner technically great performance where as Zep always had a bit of the wild garage rock style right from the start. Thats what was missing from the P&P shows for me, yeah they were technically better than Zep's latter years but they didnt have anything like the same urgencey and passion.

[snapper]

I'm a big fan of the 77 tour. I just think its a damn shame that not one of these concerts were multi-tracked. Especially since they did like 5 shows in NY, 6 shows in L.A. etc., perfect for Page to do his pick and choose editing approach wth.

Has there ever been even so much as a rumor that a 77' concert was multi-tracked?

[ZeppFanForever]

Some, not all, of those among us who never saw Led Zeppelin in concert are habitually slagging this tour and that show judging either solely from bootlegs, or the questionable opinions of writers of books/magazine articles, or both. This is about the 1977 tour in particular. If you have something to say about any other tours please feel welcome to post it in this thread if it pertains to the point I'm attempting to make.

Fact: Our Ledded ones NEVER did a half-assed tour.

Fact: The 1977 shows kicked ass. Period, fini, game over.

Question: Is there anyone reading who saw the band perform in 1977 and thought the show sucked? I doubt it very much, but if you did I respect your opinion.

Question: Do you believe everything you hear and read? We all know the answer to that.

Nobody said it better than LedZep4Ever said about '77: "You just had to have been there." I like Zep books and bootlegs as much as anybody, but let's get real here and be serious. Those individuals who never saw the band can only envision them vicariously through said books and bootlegs. Fair enough, but it's wearying reading posts speculating about how '77 was lame-o, the band wasn't firing on all four cylinders, Plant's voice was shot, Page was sick again, bad karma surrounded the group and and other heresies they know little about; it's not even secondhand news in most cases, more often than not it's so far removed from the source and the truth to be dogma. I'm not saying I fucking know if any of what's shuttling back and forth is true or false myself. What I AM saying is: who among the naysayers was actually acquainted with the band members, Cole, Grant, and hangers-on in the entourage and accompanied them on the road for all or part of the '77 tour? Answer: not a bloody one of those who've been spewing negative opinions of the tour. If you'd've been there you'd've likely dug the music, the scene, the cola and all the other stuff that may or may not have gone hand-in-hand with it. I also wouldn't buy into lurid tales of groupies who allegedly let Page, Plant, Bonham or Jones roll them over on their tummies and 'do what thou wilt' with them either. For the most part that equates to letting folks like Stephen Davis, Luis Rey, Richard Cole (via their books), hack magazine writers and starfuckers do your thinking for you.

With all due respect I know some of you know better.

I've said this before so forgive my saying it again: I have soundboards of three of the LZ shows I attended and the tapes are disappointing compared to the visceral power that hit you in the ears (and chest) from the stage. Trust me, the difference between the concert and the teensy-weensy piece of thin tape of the concert is night and day. I know how well-attuned your ears are, but they hear one thing when the fact of the matter is experiencing the performance in person is something else entirely. You need only compare the audience tape to the soundboard of Seattle '73 to realize what I'm saying is true. Mistakes evident on the soundboard are unheard in the audience boot, or are so reduced as to become minute, meaningless. You're letting what you perceive as sloppiness or mistakes spoil an entire string of tour dates for you and that's just wrong.

Those who were born too late to have seen Zep live need to readjust their judgments and especially their DICTION. If you didn't see this or that tour then you need to clarify what you REALLY mean is---the '75 bootlegs were better than the '77 bootlegs but they were on fire on the '72 bootlegs except I liked the bootlegs from 1970 best or what have you.

Substituting the word 'tour' for 'bootleg' simply isn't on.

How's it going "Dirigible?" This is a very interesting thread! When you think about it, there is no need to be uncivil about it. We are all die hard hard core ZEPPELIN fanatics that share one of the all-time greatest bands in common. We share stories of one of the top 3 all-time greatest bands in the history of popular music. LED ZEPPELIN was not perfect, even our heroes had off days throughout their incredible reign. Many of us saw ZEPPELIN at 100% in top form while others did not. Despite all of the bad tribulations and fatalities during the 1977 Tour, in reality, its really a miracle that ZEPPELIN made it through as far as they did. They almost finished 3 LEGS of the 1977 Tour which is the biggest LED ZEPPELIN tour to date. We'll never know how they persevered for that long. And even on some of their bad nights, ZEPPELIN still shined on some of their greatest songs. Like I said, ZEPPELIN had a lot of heart and passion for their music, that speaks for itself. ROCK ON!

[Wolfman]

As I said I don't think the boots lie and ultimately Zep were mostly about the performance even in 77. Not that most shows I'v heard were "bad" but they were not for me as good as what had come before although NQ was almost always great.

Ontop of being afraid of being viewed as fanboys who can't be critical of there favourite band I do think Zep fans music tastes have an effect aswell. Seems to me that most boot collectors are fans of bands like the Allmans, Deep Purple, Clapton etc, bands that valued cleaner technically great performance where as Zep always had a bit of the wild garage rock style right from the start. Thats what was missing from the P&P shows for me, yeah they were technically better than Zep's latter years but they didnt have anything like the same urgencey and passion.

I agree.

[Dirigible]

As I said I don't think the boots lie and ultimately Zep were mostly about the performance even in 77. Not that most shows I'v heard were "bad" but they were not for me as good as what had come before although NQ was almost always great.

Ontop of being afraid of being viewed as fanboys who can't be critical of there favourite band I do think Zep fans music tastes have an effect aswell.

I'll not quibble with you, greenman, but that's not to say I agree with you 100%, I just won't argue. I'll grant you 'some' tape recordings may not lie insofar as notes played (a dodgy subject addressed in the third paragraph of post #6 that must be part of the equation becauses it leads many to the incorrect conclusion regarding bootlegs) but 'some' distort the true aural experience to a huge degree. This is a direct corollary to fans with cheap recorders and how tape recordings replay soundwise. Yet don't you have four more senses besides your hearing? I hope so. <A friend of mine was in a bad wreck and lost his sense of smell and consequently his sense of taste; over the years it gradually returned to a degree.> There can be no denying there is a wealth of emotion missing from the spectacle that magnetic tape NEVER will capture; different taping vantage points in a concert hall impact various and sundry aspects of the sound as a whole. Listen to the soundboard of Seattle '73 per my example in the first post and then the audience tape from the same night.

In this scenario of bootleg/tour being an interchangeable term you've got to add in sight as being responsible for perhaps 50% of the experience. I could feel the music hit me in the chest as well as my ears, could smell the smoke in the air and my girlfriend's perfume. I didn't drink anything at the Houston '77 show or I'd've had all five covered, mate, and if I smoked anything then there you are.

I love bootlegs and am blessed with many and will cherish them till I go to the grave. There sure as hell ain't nothing wrong with them. Far be it from me to try to detract from anybody's enjoyment of them; I just sincerely wish everyone at this site had gotten to see Led Zeppelin live.

'Fanboy' is a derogatory term some reporter probably coined on a slow news day thinking he or she was very clever. Now the word seems to have wormed its way into the lexicon much to your chagrin and to a lesser extent, mine; I don't consider myself a fanboy and could give a damn if anyone does. To me it means a man over the age with 30 with an unhealthy attachment to collecting and reading comic books, very much along the lines of 'Mary Sue' fiction. They're meant to be cruel and hurt people like the word 'nigger' (the worst word in the language). All three terms belong in the same place as last week's TV Guide, the trash can.

[The Rover]

And I "only" waited overnight for tickets to the Dallas show. Those16 hours were something to remember though. The crush to get into the small box office lobby. The Police SWAT team guarding the door and helping people get in through the crush.

After all that though.... the BASTARDS at Rainbow Fucking Tickmaster made the choice deceision to NOT go with the ticket sales quota they had pulicised, but instead sold, to the first guy in line, who had been there for several days, a "fan" from Oklahoma.....100 tickets......

That's right.... 100 tickets sold to that one guy.

That ruined my chances for gett a close up seat. I suppose I was 20 rows back.

But I really really expected to get better seating than that, being about the 20th person in line to buy tickets at the ONLY place tickets were being sold for that concert on that day!

FUCK TICKETMASTER ! ! ! ! !

[ally]

As someone who has seen the band live, ally, you know well the difference between being there and listening to a bootleg. Thanks for your insights, I apologize for omitting your comments from my prior post, I meant to remark on them.

Ocean: you posted while I was writing, so I'm editing this to say I'm pretty dadgum green with envy. What a memory. The Landover soundboard of May 26, 1977 is my favorite soundboard of the tour, shoulder to shoulder with St. Millard's audience recordings. As far as bootlegs go, those sound better than the Houston soundboard of the concert I saw. Similar ticket line crap occurred there too.

Oh, no problem Dirgible. I can see where your coming from. I can remember playing Berkeley 71 for friends who had not seen the band to that point and many weren't that impressed with the overall sound of the live performance. Us Zepheads knew that most of the bottom end had been missed on that great aud. recording but we had seen that tour and in our minds at least, we could just see thru it. Trying to convince people, via bootlegs, about how good the band really was live can be hit and miss. Like I said earlier, unlike previous tours, I happened to see a bad show in 77 and it has jaded my opinion of some of the boots out there.

[reswati]

The first bootleg I ever heard of them was For Badgeholders Only, and I still hold it in high esteem. The complete building to a climax of that concert was amazing.

Still this can't of course beat the real experience, wish I could have been there.

[Sibh23]

You know, I've read testimonies of people who saw them live in multiple years, and a lot agree that the show that floored them the most was in 77', in fact, a lot of people hold these shows as being the best of their lives.

The reason could have been the joy to see them, the ambience of a 77' show is just like no other, riotous crazy and uplifting. You can really define the term "Houses of the Holy" with these shows. Now, put a 73 or even a 75 ambience (crowd-wise) and they just wouldn't work. in 77 it was Zeppelin, higher above anything else, and when you where a real fan and you actually saw them live, you wouldn't care for all the sloppy mistakes. But they all really show up on bootlegs.

So yeah, quite mixed, it was even better if you where there, in fact, what they put up in 77 rivals whatever went before or after that.... of course, if you where there.