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Candidate Obama vs. President Obama


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But PRESIDENT Obama isn't quite so sure about that.

Likewise "Warrantless Wiretapping"

Although CANDIDATE Obama repeatedly bashing the Bush Administration defense angle of "State Secrets", PRESIDENT Obama not only embrtaces the "State Secrets" defense, but has gone beyond even Bush by suggesting "the U.S. Government is completely immune from litigation for illegal spying — that the Government can never be sued for surveillance that violates federal privacy statutes."

WOW.

Strong reversals.

He even chest-bumps like Bush!!!

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The job of president, or any leader of a complex organization is never easy. Complex problems usually have many factors that interact in non-obvious ways and what may appear as an "obvious" solution ends up not being a solution at all. Elections are about capturing the minds of voters (not always the real issues), just as trials are about impressing the jury (not always real justice). We all have short attention spans, so sound-bites are best... short slogans, that kind of stuff -- very effective... who can forget "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"... "it's the economy, stupid"... "read my lips, no new taxes", "yes we can"... then they get elected and are faced with reality... all of a sudden Gitmo is not such a bad idea after all, all of a sudden pulling out of Iraq quickly has dangerous consequences... reality sets in, your predecessors weren't as stupid as you made them look, etc. Like a saying in Spanish “Que cómodo ver los toros desde la barrera” ... meaning it is easy to watch the bulls from behind the barrier... "Hey, touch his horns! Don't be a coward!" It's quite another when you are the one in the ring with the bull.

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so...you actually, partially, sorta, kinda...agree with Obama?

Can't say I agree with him because he rarely makes definitive positions.

More just reveling in the discrepancies between who he defined himself to be and who he is actually revealing himself to be.

And curious how those who supported him / voted for him feel about said discrepancies.

Do they feel betrayed / let down, etc.?

Or perhaps they don't even view these as discrepancies / 180s at all.

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The job of president, or any leader of a complex organization is never easy. Complex problems usually have many factors that interact in non-obvious ways and what may appear as an "obvious" solution ends up not being a solution at all. Elections are about capturing the minds of voters (not always the real issues), just as trials are about impressing the jury (not always real justice). We all have short attention spans, so sound-bites are best... short slogans, that kind of stuff -- very effective... who can forget "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit"... "it's the economy, stupid"... "read my lips, no new taxes", "yes we can"... then they get elected and are faced with reality... all of a sudden Gitmo is not such a bad idea after all, all of a sudden pulling out of Iraq quickly has dangerous consequences... reality sets in, your predecessors weren't as stupid as you made them look, etc. Like a saying in Spanish “Que cómodo ver los toros desde la barrera” ... meaning it is easy to watch the bulls from behind the barrier... "Hey, touch his horns! Don't be a coward!" It's quite another when you are the one in the ring with the bull.

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And curious how those who supported him / voted for him feel about said discrepancies.

Do they feel betrayed / let down, etc.?

Or perhaps they don't even view these as discrepancies / 180s at all.

I don't think anyone voted for him and expected there to be no discrepancies. What president EVER has no discrepancies between pre- and post-inauguration? Campaigning is campaigning, not running a country. I don't feel betrayed or let down at all.

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I don't think anyone voted for him and expected there to be no discrepancies. What president EVER has no discrepancies between pre- and post-inauguration? Campaigning is campaigning, not running a country. I don't feel betrayed or let down at all.

I haven't suggested there have NEVER been discrepancies, but I AM suggesting there's NEVER been so many full reversals / 180s on the type of person a candidate portrayed himself to be and the type he has proven to be, as well as the policies he touted as a candidate (and berated the previous administration for) that he has abandoned (or embraced) now that he's in office.

Just seems a little wishy-washy to me.

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And curious how those who supported him / voted for him feel about said discrepancies.

Do they feel betrayed / let down, etc.?

Or perhaps they don't even view these as discrepancies / 180s at all.

extremely disappointed that he doesn't want to pursue the bush administration for authorizing torture... i think by ignoring it, he is condoning it...

as a former servicemember, i really was shocked to learn the u.s. would stoop to that level...maybe i was naive, but i really thought we were better than that...now i know, we are not...

(not naive enough though to believe that the geneva convention card i was issued would actually prevent other countries from using torture...)

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All too often politicians get voted into office under false pretences. They go back on their words and in essence have ultimately cheated their way into the job.

Amazing that people still let them get away with it, although what can ya do??

This is why I don't trust ANY politician to keep their words and promises. Voting is for the gullible.

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From The Internet:

If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special Olympics, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly narcissistic and tacky?

If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a minor slip?

If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with people who cannot seem to keep current on their income taxes, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to “Cinco de Cuatro ” in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the fourth of May (Cuatro de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you have winced in embarrassment?

If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word advice would you have hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe as “proof” of what a dunce he is?

If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a single tree on “Earth Day”, would you have concluded he’s a hypocrite?

If George W. Bush ’s administration had okayed Air Force One flying low over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually “get” what happened on 9-11?

If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is on his own and is really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in New Orleans, would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue with claims of racism and incompetence?

If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10 years, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan’s holdings of GM stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to take Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?

So, tell me again, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant and impressive? Can't think of anything? Don't worry. He's done all this in 5 months -- so you'll have three years and seven months to come up with an answer.

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All too often politicians get voted into office under false pretences. They go back on their words and in essence have ultimately cheated their way into the job.

Amazing that people still let them get away with it, although what can ya do??

This is why I don't trust ANY politician to keep their words and promises. Voting is for the gullible.

OK, now we are getting some where! Here is the way you have to think when you go to the poll's and pull the lever. Forget all the, "I'm your best friend" stuff that the campaign manager has had written for his own candidate, just think with your head! You remember what that is, yes? That great big mass of gray matter behind your eye's?

None of these guy's or gal's are going to do everything that they say they will do, in fact if they get even the lest of what they promise done they will be very lucky. You can't be fooled by the hype and aww of the campaign trail, just do the right thing and do some research to. But you should vote even if you think it is hopeless go out and do it.

Edited by BonzoLikeDrumer
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OK, now we are getting some where! Here is the way you have to think when you go to the poll's and pull the lever. Forget all the, "I'm your best friend" stuff that the campaign manager has had written for his own candidate, just think with your head! You remember what that is, yes? That great big mass of gray matter behind your eye's?

None of these guy's or gal's are going to do everything that they say they will do, in fact if they get even the lest of what they promise done they will be very lucky. You can't be fooled by the hype and aww of the campaign trail, just do the right thing and do some research to. But you should vote even if you think it is hopeless go out and do it.

I am an Independant...both of these parties are not doing what's best. I have to say that my opinion is Bush had to be the biggest idiot of all. Want to send a message --vote Independant!!!!

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extremely disappointed that he doesn't want to pursue the bush administration for authorizing torture... i think by ignoring it, he is condoning it...

as a former servicemember, i really was shocked to learn the u.s. would stoop to that level...maybe i was naive, but i really thought we were better than that...now i know, we are not...

(not naive enough though to believe that the geneva convention card i was issued would actually prevent other countries from using torture...)

My guess is it follows the same logic as Andrew Johnson pardoning former Confederate leaders military members, Ford pardoning Nixon and Carter pardoning the draft dodgers... everyone knows it's wrong, but its a headache to bring it all back and perhaps best to let it be.

******************************

In terms of the thread in general, having run for political office, you learn quickly there is a significant majority of the campaign that is skin deep merely saying what sounds appealing, while a minuscule minority devoted to actual goals and plans you can accomplish.

The only president I've heard in history that accomplished all of his goals when entering office was James K. Polk, so this it's not like this is uncommon. Personally, it was hard to not be caught up in the moment with the Obama campaign, even when reminding myself to not get my hopes too high. I won't lie about that. Will he come around and make due on some of these ideas? We'll find out by 2012. Don't forget, he did sign the bill to close gitmo, but his own party shafted him and didn't give up the money needed. So you could say he is trying...

Edited by zosodude13
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In response to the thread title, I did. That's why I didn't vote this time. Either way I'd have been let down or bamboozled. Oh well, train's left the station. It's gone just the way I thought it would go. Hang on, it's going to be a bumpy ride. I'm neither Rep or Dem. I don't believe either has the power to make the changes I'd like to see. I do believe there will be a shitload of change coming out of my pocket. Glad I don't have children. :slapface:

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Mr. Obama will be stopping by yet again.:slapface: This is our third visit (next Tuesday). He'll be throwing out the first pitch in St. Louis right after our outside Town Hall meeting....and I just met with the White House advance team and got invited to a pool party tonite at the hotel by some very attractive ladies.

Marco !! :D

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You know, I'm not sure which is worse: pulling a 180 because you're corrupt and don't give a darn about what you said before, or because you're an idealistic fool who doesn't have a clue about how the world really works and you just got schooled. I'm leaning toward the second, and unfortunately I think Obama is one of those.

Secondly, anyone who thinks a politician is going to keep his/her campaign promises is a dumbass, pure and simple. It shouldn't be that way, but it is, and to be shocked about it when it does happen is friggin' naive.

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You know, I'm not sure which is worse: pulling a 180 because you're corrupt and don't give a darn about what you said before, or because you're an idealistic fool who doesn't have a clue about how the world really works and you just got schooled. I'm leaning toward the second, and unfortunately I think Obama is one of those.

Secondly, anyone who thinks a politician is going to keep his/her campaign promises is a dumbass, pure and simple. It shouldn't be that way, but it is, and to be shocked about it when it does happen is friggin' naive.

I am neither a dumbass nor naive.

And I'm certainly not shocked.

My point was only to illustrate what an inordinately excessive bunch of bullshit the Obama campaign dumped on this nation in order to take control.

I've never seen more reversals, 180s and 2-steps in a shorter period (said period including the beginning of his administration) than this pack of thieves.

anyone who thinks a politician is going to keep his/her campaign promises is a dumbass, pure and simple. It shouldn't be that way, but it is, and to be shocked about it when it does happen is friggin' naive.

This is the sort of assuming a jaded mentality that allows this type of shit to happen in the first place.

As though it's better to display your knowledge of "how things really work" by not being surprised when officials are exposed as cheats and liars than to be rightfully outraged and possibly mistaken as naive or unaware.

If people were more outraged when it happens, rather than accepting it as "business as usual" then we might get better results.

But as long as people are more concerned with how they appear to others rather than what they should legitimately expect from government and those who run it, it will only continue to get worse.

And it's getting really bad, really quick.

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A sign over Ahmadinejad's desk:

OBAMA IS BIG PUSSY

:D

Have no fear,redrum. Obama consults the 8 Ball on his desk in the Oval Office for solutions to problems here and abroad.

I wonder what narcissistic plaque on the wall in the Oval Office radiates. Any guesses??

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Nobody really expected anything different did they? Any new political leader is a case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss". Worse than Obama being typical is the perpetuation of "let's point out the other guy's flaws". Until we can get pas participating in a country wide game of skins v.s. shirts we are in the shitter. Why? because we fuel the fire. The politicians are simply serving up what we want. Could it be any more obvious?

I don't even know why I venture into threads like this. It's like talking to my Grandparents. Until someone breaks us out of the monotony it will never change. It's not too soon to make some waves. If super dummy Sarah Palin has enough of a brain to get in the action more than three years before the next election it's time for us in the middle to make a 3ed party a viable choice in 2012. Stop the bitching and get the led out.

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