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brspled

Air France plane lost over Atlantic

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This is very sad news. My heart goes out to all of the friends and families of the victims.

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Hello:

I'm sad to hear such tragic news..there was a Canadian on board. He was supposed to see his son graduate from Queens next week..

Juliet

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I also can't agree with the other stuff as I don't get that empty feeling when I leave a continent.

On a plane, I'm usually too pissed to care one way or another.

I don't enjoy flying so I like to steady my nerves. We aren't meant to be in a little metal box up there I tell ya!

RIP to those who died.Terrible.

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By Chris Kraul and Marcelo Soares

10:28 AM PDT, June 3, 2009 Reporting from Bogota, Colombia, and Sao Paulo, Brazil -- Brazilian authorities said military aircraft early today located several more pieces of debris in an area where an ill-fated Air France flight is believed to have crashed with 228 people aboard.

The debris detected by aircraft radar included a 23-foot section that officials said may be part of Flight 447 that disappeared late Sunday after flying through turbulence and sending out an automatic alert of an electrical failure.

No further communication from the cockpit of the Rio de Janeiro-to-Paris flight was received. The 216 passengers and 12 crew members on board are feared dead.

Brazilian television began broadcasting images of the debris and a 12-mile fuel slick taken by air force planes over the suspected crash area about 400 miles north of the Brazilian island of Fernando de Noronha.

On Tuesday, Brazil's Defense Minister Nelson Jobim said debris previously sighted in the area almost certainly belonged to the doomed aircraft. None of the fragments have been recovered yet.

Three Brazilian naval vessels were expected to arrive today on the scene. Three merchant ships, two Dutch and one French, have been in the vicinity since Tuesday.

"It could be a side, a piece of steel or any part of the fuselage or tail," said military spokesman Jorge Amaral of the fragments detected today. "A 23-foot piece, seemingly metallic, is a considerable piece."

Brazilian officials also said the debris was spotted within a 3-mile radius of the fuel slick. Still, there have been no markings sighted yet identifying the debris as belonging to the Air France jetliner. No bodies have been sighted, he said.

47269089.jpg

latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-brazil-crash4-2009jun04

Edited by eternal light

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The last message from the pilot was a manual signal at 11 p.m. local time Sunday saying he was flying through an area of black, electrically charged cumulonimbus clouds that come with violent winds and lightning. The automated messages that followed suggest the plane broke apart in the sky, according to the aviation industry official.

At 11:10 p.m., a cascade of problems began: the autopilot had disengaged, a key computer system switched to alternative power, and controls needed to keep the plane stable had been damaged. An alarm sounded indicating the deterioration of flight systems. Then, systems for monitoring air speed, altitude and direction failed. Then controls over the main flight computer and wing spoilers failed as well. At 11:14 p.m., a final automatic message signaled loss of cabin pressure and complete electrical failure as the plane was breaking apart.

Patrick Smith, a U.S. airline pilot and aviation analyst, said the failures could have begun with a loss of electrical power, possibly as the result of an extremely strong lightning bolt.

"What jumps out at me is the reported failure of both the primary and standby instruments," Smith said. "From that point the plane basically becomes unflyable."

"If they lost control and started spiraling down into a storm cell, the plane would begin disintegrating, the engines and wings would start coming off, the cabin would begin falling apart," he said.

The pilot of a Spanish airliner flying nearby at the time reported seeing a bright flash of white light plunging to the ocean, said Angel del Rio, spokesman for the Spanish airline Air Comet.

"Suddenly, off in the distance, we observed a strong and bright flash of white light that took a downward and vertical trajectory and vanished in six seconds," the pilot wrote in his report, del Rio told the AP. The pilot of the Spanish plane, en route from Lima, Peru to Madrid, said he heard no emergency calls.

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane

capt_d0d57972fff343ec928cf8f843d4f1.jpg

A couple holds hands during a mass in honor of the victims of Air France flight 447, which was reported missing on its way from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, at a church in Rio de Janeiro, Thursday, June 4, 2009.(AP Photo/Silvia Izquierdo)

source: yahoo news

capt_photo_1244137130434-6-0.jpg

Friends, relatives and authorities attend a mass to pay tribute to the victims of the ill-fated Air France flight 447 at the Candelaria Cathedral in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.(AFP/Vanderlei Almeida) source: yahoo news

capt_81b9228bc587458fb0c5194a0c9c9d.jpg

Relatives hug during a mass for victims of Air France flight 447 that was reported missing on its way from Rio de Janeiro to Paris, at a church in Rio de Janeiro, Thursday, June 4, 2009.

(AP Photo/Silvia Izquierdo)

Edited by eternal light

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Wow" Eternal Light" from the report of the Spanish pilot you quoted the passengers most likely were aware and suffered greatly in the last moments. My question to the universe would be why did they fly into such a terrible storm? Can't the ground control and pilot see those on radar or otherwise? :(

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Lot's of storms come from that area of the Atlantic (where the wreckage was found) so the last report of lighting and strong winds, watch for bad weather.

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I haven`t kept up with this much, but I assume the aircraft was an A 330.

The US Airways flight that ingested geese was an A 319/320. A smaller aircraft and not used for trans-Atlantic flights to my knowledge.

As far as the "black boxes" goes, they aren`t black any more, they are orange for visiblity

There are two, a Cockpit Voice Recorder and a Flight Data Recorder tucked neatly near the tail when they are most likely to survive a crash.

I am not sure if they are digital or still analog.

I have work in aviation many years and can`t imagine why the pilots didn`t fly over or around the weather. This aircraft would have been equiped with Doeppler weather radar and would have recieved up dates on weather conditions.

The first indication of trouble was an electrical failure sent out through the transponder system or how else Air France keeps tabs on its flights.

They may blame lightning but I have seen many lightning strikes to aircraft.

I am not sure if a lightning strike could take out the entire electrical system.

A flying aircraft is not "grounded" (excuse the pun) and the lightning just usually bounces off but a good jolt of lighning is not beyond the realm of possibility

A lightning strike doesn`t nomally hurt anything but I am aware of lightning knocking off the radome of a C-130.

I think it will come down to pilot error.

An American Airlines A-300 had its vertical stabilizer (the vertical fin on the tail) torn off by heavy imputs to the rudder pedals.

This is a bad design as the vertical stabilizer attach points are composite material and not metal. I don`t think they saved much on weigh with this design.

This Air France flight had an obvious catastrophic structural failure.

When all else fails, blame the pilots.

I have flown many times. Bad weather and test flights are the only things that scare me.

Never fly in or into bad weather.

As far as suffering by the passengers, who knows.

I don`t intended to be graphic but flying at 30,000 feet and coming out of an disintegrating aircraft, your clothes would be ripped from your body before hitting terminal velocity at 180 MPH into water hard as concrete.

A two minute free-fall from hell.

The horror.

The stuff of nightmares

I just hope it was quick.

Again, I am not too familiar with this accident.

May the victims and their families find closure.

Edited by L 7

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As far as suffering by the passengers, who knows.

I don`t intended to be graphic but flying at 30,000 feet and coming out of an disintegrating aircraft, your clothes would be ripped from your body before hitting terminal velocity at 180 MPH into water hard as concrete.

A two minute free-fall from hell.

The horror.

The stuff of nightmares

I just hope it was quick.

But its most likely that they would have passed out before they hit the water, right?

This is sad.

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I have work in aviation many years and can`t imagine why the pilots didn`t fly over or around the weather.

You could do some things like that, but on the other hand if it's a big storm you can't really get above it because the plane won't fly that high.

And you don't really want to go down that low in bad weather and turbulence because if something does happen, you need a lot of room to recover the plane for forgiveness.

And often these storms are very, very broad, so they can't go around them.

So sometimes there's no choice but to bite the bullet and go through.

-Robert Hager

(This was an Airbus A330-200.)

Edited by eternal light

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(This was an Airbus A330-200.)

Yes and the service ceiling for the jet is 39,000 feet. Thunderstorms often top 50,000 feet.

Could they have flown around, this is all speculation.

We will probably never know.

As far as the passengers passing out, I don`t know.

It depends on how high they were, where oxygen is low. I think you would fall a minute before getting back in air thick enough to breathe.

And yes the black/orange boxes are designed to emit a signal for 30 days.

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Brazilian Military Finds Two Bodies From Crash

By LIZ ROBBINS and NICOLA CLARK

Published: June 6, 2009

Search crews recovered two male bodies in the Atlantic Ocean on Saturday morning about 40 miles from where Air France Flight 447 last gave its position before disappearing Sunday night.

Two people speaking for the Brazilian military confirmed the findings, which appeared to be the first physical evidence of the crash that killed all 228 people on board the flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

The Brazilian air force said it had also recovered a blue airplane seat with a serial number, a briefcase and a letter folder containing an Air France boarding pass. The military said it sent the serial number to Air France officials to verify that it had come from the plane.

"When we started out we concentrated on finding survivors, but that was not possible," Jorge Amaral, the assistant head of the Air Force's Press Office told reporters in the northeastern city of Recife, according to the Brazilian Web site, ig.com. "Then we started looking for debris, survivors and bodies. But it is only today that we have had a positive, albeit sad, result. But that has brought us the certainty that our work was done properly."

nytimes.com/2009/06/07/world/europe/07plane

Paris - One of the victims of Monday's Air France crash into the Atlantic was found Saturday still buckled to his seat, the news channel BFM TV reported. The male passenger, whose boarding card was found on the body, was one of two male bodies retrieved from the sea early Saturday, according to Brazilian Air Force spokesman Jorge Amaral.

In addition, a leather case was found with a plane ticket inside, the number of which corresponded to a passenger on the flight, Amaral said.

Air France flight AF 447 disappeared en-route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris on Monday with 228 people on board.

Oxygen masks and a seat bearing the serial number 237011038331-0 were also plucked out of the sea Saturday. However, Air France must still confirm that the seat actually came from the lost Airbus A330- 200 aircraft.

The bodies and the debris were taken to the Brazilian island of Fernando de Noronha.(dpa)

topnews.in/crash-victim-was-found-still-strapped-seat

Edited by eternal light

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Yes and the service ceiling for the jet is 39,000 feet. Thunderstorms often top 50,000 feet.

Could they have flown around, this is all speculation.

We will probably never know.

As far as the passengers passing out, I don`t know.

It depends on how high they were, where oxygen is low. I think you would fall a minute before getting back in air thick enough to breathe.

And yes the black/orange boxes are designed to emit a signal for 30 days.

I don't know about the passing out part. I have read stories from people who witnessed people jumping to their death and they said the people were awake when they were falling. What a horrible way to go.

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No.

Hypoxia is lack of oxygen.

Blue in the face like I get when reading your post.

For Christ`s sake spats. Were you a blue baby?

Were you wrapped up in the unbiblical cord?

That would explain a lot.

Seems this jet was miles away from its destination and not even beginning final approach to Rio.

They would have been fast and high.

I also read there was suspected icing with the pitot/static sytem which provides critcal readings on data such as airspeed and altitude.

Edited by L 7

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Six bodies were found till now, I'm happy they finally managed to rescue some evidences from the plane crash. This will, somehow I think, comfort the families. To be unsure of what really happened to a beloved one is certainly unbearable. :(

My daughter arrived today from Germany, she flew over the place where the Air France plane crashed. And she said that the turbulence there was really huge today, days after the tragedy. The authorities have said that the weather conditions there have been awful for days. My daughter said it was really a disturbing experience to be fying over that place during a turbulence...... :(

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The flight was en route from Brazil to France.

Ok so they were on their climb out. Same difference.

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Ok so they were on their climb out. Same difference.

I don't understand much about flying procedures, L7, but they were far away from Rio at that point. About 5-6 hours away from Rio, I'd say. I think they were already on their "cruise mode" or whatever it's called, when the plane stays at the same altitude for hours till they start the landing procedure.

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I don't understand much about flying procedures, L7, but they were far away from Rio at that point. About 5-6 hours away from Rio, I'd say. I think they were already on their "cruise mode" or whatever it's called, when the plane stays at the same altitude for hours till they start the landing procedure.

brspled, as I have stated, I have just begun to keep up with this accident.

I didn`t even pay attention to which way they were flying

I see they were over the Atlantic and not far from Recife. I don`t know how far that is from Rio but a jet usually gets high and reaches crusing altitude fast.

If you have flown you know they climb out fast and gain altitude to save on fuel.

I dont know how far it is from Rio to Paris but even if its 5-6 hours away, they would have hit 30,000 feet fast.

Regardless of the minor details this is still a horrible accident and should not have occured.

Edited by L 7

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brspled, as I have stated, I have just begun to keep up with this accident.

I see they were over the Atlantic and not far from Recife. I don`t know how far that is from Rio but a jet usually gets high and reaches crusing altitude fast.

If you have flown you know they climb out fast and gain altitude to save on fuel.

I dont know how far it is from Rio to Paris but even if its 5-6 hours away, they would have hit 30,000 feet fast.

Oh, OK, now I understand. :)

I have flown many, many times in my life and I can attest you're right, the planes reach their cruising altitude very fast. :yesnod:

It takes about 10-11 hours from Rio to Paris, I have already flown this flight many times. Recife is about 3.5 hours away from Rio, and Fernado de Noronha is an island, about 1-1.5 hour from Recife. The plane crashed after they have passed over Fernando de Noronha. That's why I said they have been flying for cerca 5-6 hours, but they were still far away from Paris.

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Oh, OK, now I understand. :)

I have flown many, many times in my life and I can attest you're right, the planes reach their cruising altitude very fast. :yesnod:

It takes about 10-11 hours from Rio to Paris, I have already flown this flight many times. Recife is about 3.5 hours away from Rio, and Fernado de Noronha is an island, about 1-1.5 hour from Recife. The plane crashed after they have passed over Fernando de Noronha. That's why I said they have been flying for cerca 5-6 hours, but they were still far away from Paris.

Good, if Recife is 3.5 hours away then they were in cruise mode and probably enjoy the drinks and a movie.

This is just horrible.

My heart goes out to the victims. In fact there was a couple on the flight from Lafayette, Louisiana which isn`t far from me.

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