Air France plane lost over Atlantic

[brspled]

Good, if Recife is 3.5 hours away then they were in cruise mode and probably enjoy the drinks and a movie.

This is just horrible.

My heart goes out to the victims. In fact there was a couple on the flight from Lafayette, Louisiana which isn`t far from me.

I'm sorry to know that.

There were people from 32 different nationalities in that plane, this tragedy affected many people all over the world.

My heart goes out to the victims too.

[ninelives]

Six bodies were found till now, I'm happy they finally managed to rescue some evidences from the plane crash. This will, somehow I think, comfort the families. To be unsure of what really happened to a beloved one is certainly unbearable.

My daughter arrived today from Germany, she flew over the place where the Air France plane crashed. And she said that the turbulence there was really huge today, days after the tragedy. The authorities have said that the weather conditions there have been awful for days. My daughter said it was really a disturbing experience to be fying over that place during a turbulence......

I'm soooo happy your daughter arrived safe and sound I'm sure you were extremely anxious in light of the Air France flight.

There is some sense of closure I think for the families when bodies are found. I know when 9/11 happened, some victims were never found and I think from what I remember reading, it did make it harder for them to deal with It's just such a heartbreaking situation. My heart really goes out to everyone.

[L 7]

I'm sorry to know that.

There were people from 32 different nationalities in that plane, this tragedy affected many people all over the world.

My heart goes out to the victims too.

Mine does as well.

This is how the accident first gained my attention.

A young woman and her husband from Lafayette were on the flight. It was on the local news. She had just graduated college and was probaly enjoying a vacation.

This is just so sad.

They say you are more likely to get killed in a car accident that flying.

I can`t imagine the horror of being flung from an aircraft and plunging into cold sea water.

[brspled]

I'm soooo happy your daughter arrived safe and sound I'm sure you were extremely anxious in light of the Air France flight.

There is some sense of closure I think for the families when bodies are found. I know when 9/11 happened, some victims were never found and I think from what I remember reading, it did make it harder for them to deal with It's just such a heartbreaking situation. My heart really goes out to everyone.

Thank you, 9. I'm sooo happy too. To get a plane on the following day of the Air France plane crash (as I did) was already very...uncomfortable, to say the least. But to have my own daughter flying the same route from the Air France plane was even worse.

To know that the plane really crashed might be some kind of comfort indeed. Even if they don't find all the bodies (and they most certainly won't), to be sure that the plane really crashed will help those families to realise their losses.

[ninelives]

Thank you, 9. I'm sooo happy too. To get a plane on the following day of the Air France plane crash (as I did) was already very...uncomfortable, to say the least. But to have my own daughter flying the same route from the Air France plane was even worse.

To know that the plane really crashed might be some kind of comfort indeed. Even if they don't find all the bodies (and they most certainly won't), to be sure that the plane really crashed will help those families to realise their losses.

Very true. Sad but true.

[brspled]

Mine does as well.

This is how the accident first gained my attention.

A young woman and her husband from Lafayette were on the flight. It was on the local news. She had just graduated college and was probaly enjoying a vacation.

This is just so sad.

They say you are more likely to get killed in a car accident that flying.

I can`t imagine the horror of being flung from an aircraft and plunging into cold sea water.

Too sad.

L7, I can't say for sure, of course, but I bet they were already dead as they reached the water. That'd also explain why nobody from the crew got in touch with any flight control on earth.

there was another plane crash here in Brazil, in 2006. A Boeing was hit by a Learjet plane during the flight, in cruising altitude, the Boeing crashed, the Learjet plane managed to land. They found all the 155 bodies of the victims on the ground, but the autopsy of the bodies proved that all the victims were already dead as they hit the ground. The plane took 2.5 minutes to reach the ground, and everybody was already dead by then.

Oh, well, this is getting too macabre, sorry for this last post and the details. But hipoxia might have caused all the deaths...me thinks.

[ninelives]

Too sad.

L7, I can't say for sure, of course, but I bet they were already dead as they reached the water. That'd also explain why nobody from the crew got in touch with any flight control on earth.

there was another plane crash here in Brazil, in 2006. A Boeing was hit by a Learjet plane during the flight, in cruising altitude, the Boeing crashed, the Learjet plane managed to land. They found all the 155 bodies of the victims on the ground, but the autopsy of the bodies proved that all the victims were already dead as they hit the ground. The plane took 2.5 minutes to reach the ground, and everybody was already dead by then.

Oh, well, this is getting too macabre, sorry for this last post and the details. But hipoxia might have caused all the deaths...me thinks.

I would imagine hipoxia caused their deaths too. I remember reading about that plane crash in Brazil

[L 7]

We will never know. You can survive.

A young girl once survied a fall still strapped in her in seat.

The human brain can survive up to four minutes without oxygen before brain damage begins.

I remember the mid-air collison as well.

Thats different as you are most likely to be killed by the collision out right.

[brspled]

We will never know. You can survive.

A young girl once survied a fall still strapped in her in seat.

The human brain can survive up to four minutes without oxygen before brain damage begins.

I remember the mid-air collison as well.

Thats different as you are most likely to be killed by the collision out right.

Yes, you're right, they were different situations. Still, I believe they could have died of hypoxia.

But whatever we say or think will be speculation anyway. I hope that the evidences they found (and that they find more evidences on the following week) will help them to come to some kind of conclusion.

[L 7]

Yes, you're right, they were different situations. Still, I believe they could have died of hypoxia.

But whatever we say or think will be speculation anyway. I hope that the evidences they found (and that they find more evidences on the following week) will help them to come to some kind of conclusion.

Yes I hope they solved this and prevent it from happening again. Not to many air disaster go unsolved.

Except maybe the TWA 747 that exploded over Long Island Sound in 1996.

Air disasters are terrible. People get killed.

They will never reconstruct this jet and must reply on the black/orange boxes if they are ever found and any information sent by the jet to Air France headquarters.

I once worked with a nice guy who was blamed for an accident where several people got killed.

[ninelives]

Yes I hope they solved this and prevent it from happening again. Not to many air disaster go unsolved.

Except maybe the TWA 747 that exploded over Long Island Sound in 1996.

Air disasters are terrible. People get killed.

They will never reconstruct this jet and must reply on the black/orange boxes if they are ever found and any information sent by the jet to Air France headquarters.

I once worked with a nice guy who was blamed for an accident where several people got killed.

I hope they can find the black and orange boxes so there are some answers to what happened. But it's not going to be easy to locate them unfortunately.

What happened that the guy was blamed for an accident?

[L 7]

I hope they can find the black and orange boxes so there are some answers to what happened. But it's not going to be easy to locate them unfortunately.

What happened that the guy was blamed for an accident?

He lost his FAA certification (license) and was reduced to paper work.

The nightmare of working in aviation.

[brspled]

L7 there's only one commercial flight that has disappeared without any evidences of what happened to it. No evidences at all.

It was a Varig (Brazilian airline) cargo, a Boeing 707, a cargo plane that left Narita airport in Japan to come to Rio, back in 1979. The crew was expected to get in touch with some air base 30 minutes after they took off, but this contact never happened.

They searched for the plane or the crew for a loooooong time, but they have NEVER found anything. Nothing. No pieces of the plane, no bodies, no fuel, nothing. The plane was carrying some paintings back to Brazil (they were part of an exihibition in Japan), the paitings were worth about 1.5 million dollars (at the time).

The tragedy was even worse because the captain of this flight was also the captain of a Varig flight that had to make an emergency landing in Paris, back in 1973 (I think) because of a fire on the plane (someone lit a cigarette in the toilette, causing the fire). The captain managed to land the plane, but most of the passengres died of smoke intoxication. It is really sad that this same captain was also in this plane that vanished over the Pacific.

Well, now it looks like I'm a weirdo because I can remember these things, but well, I was very young at the time, I hated fliying back then (and I still do) and these stories really impressed me. Well, they still do.

[L 7]

L7 there's only one commercial flight that has disappeared without any evidences of what happened to it. No evidences at all.

It was a Varig (Brazilian airline) cargo, a Boeing 707, a cargo plane that left Narita airport in Japan to come to Rio, back in 1979. The crew was expected to get in touch with some air base 30 minutes after they took off, but this contact never happened.

They searched for the plane or the crew for a loooooong time, but they have NEVER found anything. Nothing. No pieces of the plane, no bodies, no fuel, nothing. The plane was carrying some paintings back to Brazil (they were part of an exihibition in Japan), the paitings were worth about 1.5 million dollars (at the time).

The tragedy was even worse because the captain of this flight was also the captain of a Varig flight that had to make an emergency landing in Paris, back in 1973 (I think) because of a fire on the plane (someone lit a cigarette in the toilette, causing the fire). The captain managed to land the plane, but most of the passengres died of smoke intoxication. It is really sad that this same captain was also in this plane that vanished over the Pacific.

Well, now it looks like I'm a weirdo because I can remember these things, but well, I was very young at the time, I hated fliying back then (and I still do) and these stories really impressed me. Well, they still do.

Air disaster interest me.

I am familar with cargo planes as I worked many years on UPS DC-8 cargo planes.

A 707 is very similar to a DC-8.

UPS lost one a few years ago due to a fire caused by lithium batteries.

Air lines are much more careful now to cargo they carry because the Value Jet disaster caused by oxygen generators.

I wasn`t aware that an jet crashed with no jetsom found.

That is interesting.

You can fly with confidence as the lavs (toilets) now have smoke detectors installed.

[Fan_S.]

It is very very sad. My heart goes out to the victims and their families too. May the victims rest in peace and their families find closure and comfort in their time of excruciating grief.

[ninelives]

He lost his FAA certification (license) and was reduced to paper work.

The nightmare of working in aviation.

Eek. What happened that caused the crash, if you don't mind my asking? He must feel awful

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

Yes I hope they solved this and prevent it from happening again. Not to many air disaster go unsolved.

Except maybe the TWA 747 that exploded over Long Island Sound in 1996.

Air disasters are terrible. People get killed.

They will never reconstruct this jet and must reply on the black/orange boxes if they are ever found and any information sent by the jet to Air France headquarters.

I once worked with a nice guy who was blamed for an accident where several people got killed.

I remember seeing a Nat Geo show about that air crash, they (NTSA) determined that high voltage lines had been run in a conduit that was designed for low voltage lines. That sparked off the center fuel tank (witch was not completely full), the ignited fumes caused the whole tank to explode tarring the jet into three pieces.

[L 7]

Eek. What happened that caused the crash, if you don't mind my asking? He must feel awful

On an airplane the tail and wing are built like a box.

There is what is called a leading edge that is attached by fasteners (screws) to the front of the wing or tail section that provides the curved surface that provides lift.

Some screws were left off of the tail leading edge and my co-worker signed off the paper work as complete.

The leading edge on one of the tail sections detached causing a loss of control.

It was easy to miss as the screws were on the top of the tail section.

[L 7]

I remember seeing a Nat Geo show about that air crash, they (NTSA) determined that high voltage lines had been run in a conduit that was designed for low voltage lines. That sparked off the center fuel tank (witch was not completely full), the ignited fumes caused the whole tank to explode tarring the jet into three pieces.

Yes I remember this as well.

Seems the center wing tank was empty of fuel except for fumes. There was even talk of filling empty fuel tanks with inert gas (nitrogen) to purge any oxygen from the tank.

The 747 sat on the ground for several hours with the Packs (Air conditoners) running.

On a 747 the AC units are under the center wing tank and speculation is that the Packs heated up the fumes which in term were ignited by a spark from a fuel pump.

I recall yanking fuel pumps out of planes right after this happened and replacing them or inspecting the wiring for proper insulation.

On a side note and a funny story to me at least is when I pulled one fuel pump from a DC-10 the tank wasn`t empty. The flapper valve on the tank failed causing a fuel spill of Biblical proportions in the hangar.

Took 500 lbs. of kitty litter to clean it up.

Yuck

[L 7]

I will always remember the night of TWA flight 800. To my knowledge that was never solved beyond all doubt. Even though they are pretty certain it was mechanical failure?

Yes zepplover and the conspiracy theories spang up. They wanted to blame it on an missle fired from a Navy ship.

I am not sure if this accident was ever solved but over-heated fuel tanks and bad wiring sounds good enough to me.

[marolyn]

info for the techies...

PPRuNe Forums

and for the self-loading freight...

Air France Flight 447

[Bong-Man]

You can survive.

http://www.flight255memorial.com/thecrash.html

Whenever a plane goes down, I always think of this 4 year old girl, who was the only survivor of this crash.

[The Rover]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8089917.stm

Because the BBC always beats the US on coverage. American News is Sooooo Dumbed Down !!!!

Discussing the possible cause of the crash, French officials have said the plane's sensors could have iced over, meaning pilots may have flown into a storm without knowing their speed.

France's Transport Minister Dominique Bussereau told French radio that such a situation could have resulted in "two bad consequences for the survival of the plane".

"Too low a speed, which can cause it to stall, or too high a speed, which can lead to the plane ripping up as it approached the speed of sound, as the outer skin is not designed to resist such speed," he said.

Air France has said it is stepping up the process of replacing speed monitors on board its Airbus planes.

The company said it first noticed problems with speed monitors a year ago and began replacing them a few weeks before the accident.

But investigators have said it is too early to say what role faulty sensors might have played in the crash.

[L 7]

http://www.flight255memorial.com/thecrash.html

Whenever a plane goes down, I always think of this 4 year old girl, who was the only survivor of this crash.

This was in Detroit wasn`t it?

I seem to recall the pilots were discussing the dating habits of the flight attendants and forgot to lower the wing slats and flaps to take-off configuration.

There should have been a take-off warning horn but this was a MD-82 and how loss of electrical power would affect the take-off warning horn is beyond me. With the engines running the electrical buss should have been powered.

I am not to familiar with this jet.

[Bong-Man]

This was in Detroit wasn`t it?

I seem to recall the pilots were discussing the dating habits of the flight attendants and forgot to lower the wing slats and flaps to take-off configuration.

There should have been a take-off warning horn but this was a MD-82 and how loss of electrical power would affect the take-off warning horn is beyond me. With the engines running the electrical buss should have been powered.

I am not to familiar with this jet.

Yep...You got it. Someone heard her crying under some wreckage quite a distance from the plane. This was the only pic they released of her at the time.

The sole survivor To this day, there is no explanation for how Cecelia Cichan survived Flight 255. Her parents and 6-year-old brother died in the crash.

A story circulated that Cecelia was found with her mother, Paula Cichan, protectively wrapped around her. That was not true.

It was pure chance that spared Cecelia, especially in light of the absolute devastation of the plane and the explosive fires that ensued.

She was found by a paramedic who heard her moan and saw her arm twitch.

The medical examiner for Wayne County in Michigan had no explanation for how anybody survived.

"I have never seen such complete destruction," Dr. Werner Spitz, a veteran of 20 crash sites, said at the time. "There is not a bone left intact in the bodies."

After 24 hours of confusion about the girl's identity, her grandfather identified her by her chipped front tooth and purple fingernail polish her grandmother had applied for the trip.

Cecelia had broken bones and burns, but she recovered.

Her story captured the attention of the country and the world.

She received thousands of gifts and cards and stuffed animals.

A billboard went up in Phoenix wishing her well. She was on the cover of magazines.

Cecelia was raised by Rita and Frank Lumpkin, her maternal aunt and uncle who lived in Birmingham, Ala.

From the beginning, the family steadfastly protected her from publicity.

She is now a young woman. A recently married college graduate and a devout Catholic, she has never spoken publicly about her life.

She declined interview requests from The Arizona Republic.

She does, however, check in with people connected with Flight 255, sometimes speaking with people who lost family members on the plane.

It is clear that many people who lost loved ones in the crash have nothing but good thoughts for her, and she sometimes updates people about her life, like when she turned 21 a few years ago.

Sometimes, she writes a quick sentence: "I just wanted to say that I appreciate this memorial site. I never go a day without thinking about the people on Flight 255."

Been 20 years....still blows my mind. Appreciate your expertise, and nice to know you're still working.