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Bong-Man

The Firm Thread

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The Firm play Detroit, Michigan - May 2, 1986. Thanks go to youtube poster Mark Zep for this full concert. :thumbsup:

Edited by luvlz2

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While IN the Firm Jimmy did certainly laud Paul's voice with its' smoothness and soul, and ability to

record vocal tracks in one take. Later after the Firm Jimmy never made negative comments directly

but did say that one of his main goals was to push Paul's voice into more unusual  directions and that

the project just ran its' course. I think one thing people don't realize is that Page is not assertive enough

in certain situations and whereas another famous guitarist might start telling people what to play, Page

in Zep never needed to do that....when you start telling people how to play, it's very easy to get into

touchy situations.

Yes indeed, just ask Ted Nugent.

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Thanks go to youtube poster Mark Zep for this full concert. :thumbsup:

Edited by luvlz2

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I think this is a good call. Paul has a beautiful, big old fashioned voice, but I don't think there was much chemistry between him and Page. I think Cadillac was the nearest they came to Page's vision for the band.

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It was an absolute treat to watch on youtube the full concert of The Firm live in Detroit (see 4 posts up), and when I finished watching it the youtube poster just put up another full Firm concert from the Hammersmith Odeon with great sound, so I watched that right afterwards, and that was an absolute treat too with the great sound! I have a 2-DVD set of The Firm live at The Hammersmith Odeon but I think the sound is better on the one that was posted on youtube last night (see 2 posts up).

If anybody else watched the Detroit concert (4 posts up) and enjoyed it as much as me give a shout out. They do a great version of Midnight Moonlight, hell, the whole thing is a treat to watch...

 

 

Edited by luvlz2

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Thanks go to youtube poster Mark Zep for this full concert. :thumbsup:

Yes thanks. Never saw the full concert. Just the few songs on the "MTV" version years ago. 

I always thought this show especially was some of JImmys best playing post-Zep. Hard to believe just a year prior was the mess that was Jimmy's playing on the ARMS tour. 

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^^There is an I believe soundboard recording of Jimmy's set during one of the ARMS concerts. It was the flip side of a vinyl bootleg called Lucifer Rising. One side had Lucifer Rising, and the other Jimmy's set from one of the ARMS concerts. It sounds absolutely incredible. I wish someone who has it would transfer and post it to youtube...

Edited by luvlz2

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Hi luvlz!!

I have had the DVD of London for some time and I am almost finished listening to the Chicago one and I also thanked Mark Zep for the uploads. I love his channel. Love The Firm:-) :yesnod: 

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The whole ARMS tour Jimmy performance gets a bad rap because of the one, singular London show, TMK, every show they played after that Page was great. Such a shame everyone remembers London yet forgets, or is not even aware of the rest of the tour. If anyone has a different recollection of the rest of Jimmy's performances on the tour please let me know.

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First of all I must say I had that Detroit 86' show on video in 1990, not great quality, but right away

compared to the lackluster shows I saw, Page and the rest of the band are soaring. A lot of Jimmy's

solos are brilliant, with that b-bender he was playing stuff that's never been heard before.

About the ARMS shows, hate to disappoint anyone, but most of the time (not STH before the solo)

there was a second guitarist backing Page up. I saw two of these shows in NYC and although Page

is certainly very animated and enthusiastic, if you pay attention to the video footage , Page at times

is pumping his arm, or doing Zep moves, but....he's clearly not playing with both hands yet your'e

hearing a rhythm guitar. In the states, Ron Wood. The solos on his songs were all his, but mainly

EVERYBODY was ecstatic that he was back, I remember at the end of one show he walked offstage

with both arms extended upwards like he'd won a boxing match. He played well, just erratic at times.

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The whole ARMS tour Jimmy performance gets a bad rap because of the one, singular London show, TMK, every show they played after that Page was great. Such a shame everyone remembers London yet forgets, or is not even aware of the rest of the tour. If anyone has a different recollection of the rest of Jimmy's performances on the tour please let me know.

I have not forgotten and I'm well aware of the rest of the tour.  Compare his playing on ARMS with that on the Firm Hammersmith video. No comparison. 

Just letting you know. 

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I reckon the Firm was his best live playing post-Zep. Everyone says the Outrider '88 and PP '98 tours were awesome, but they were essentially looking backwards, not forward. The Firm was last time he was plowing ahead, trying new things. He wasn't just churning out rock 'n' roll for the 800th time. 

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^^There is an I believe soundboard recording of Jimmy's set during one of the ARMS concerts. It was the flip side of a vinyl bootleg called Lucifer Rising. One side had Lucifer Rising, and the other Jimmy's set from one of the ARMS concerts. It sounds absolutely incredible. I wish someone who has it would transfer and post it to youtube...

 

The whole ARMS tour Jimmy performance gets a bad rap because of the one, singular London show, TMK, every show they played after that Page was great. Such a shame everyone remembers London yet forgets, or is not even aware of the rest of the tour. If anyone has a different recollection of the rest of Jimmy's performances on the tour please let me know.

It's funny, because the vinyl bootleg I was talking about was from London, and it gave me a great impression. I don't have the album anymore but from what I really remember is that it sounded like it was mixed properly, and for some reason when I watch on youtube the ARMS concert in London it does not sound the same at all as this vinyl I'm talking about. I have included a picture of it. I am looking to get it again. I remember when I had it that I used to play it a lot, and that it sounded really good. But like I said, it doesn't sound anything like the youtube video of the London ARMS concert, so I really don't know what's up with that, but I am sure somebody on this board has this bootleg, and if they listen to it, will confirm what I say about how good it sounds.

Jimmy_Page_-_Lucifer_Rising.thumb.jpg.7f

Edited by luvlz2

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If I remember right( I have a boot of the London show, but not the Lucifer Rising flip side, etc.) there is

simply more echo and reverb than the official and YouTube versions. I must be the weirdo here, I never

thought that performance was that bad. Prelude is excellent, Who's To Blame has cool fills, although

the ending solo is disjointed. Actually the main point is that being in different parts of a hall, even 

sub or mediocre solos can come alive, and RAH is well known for this. The thing about the London

show and the US shows even was that although Jimmy was erratic at times, his intensity could not

be questioned. With the Firm, I was just unlucky to see the lame shows, I have seen/heard the excellent

ones. About the Firm versus 98' P/P, Page was consistently excellent on this tour, many have said 

some of the 98' Heartbreaker solos match Zep versions. Page in the Firm was simply not up to handling

anything like Heartbreaker. Many thought as well that Zep dropped D&C from 77' on because it would

make Jimmy look real bad.

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There were actually two shows in London, maybe that bootleg was other show?  I've always thought Jimmy's performance at RAH was very good, esp Tulsa Time where he blows Clapton and Beck off the stage.

 

jimmy came off heroin before US Tour and he just seems too whacked out on the shows I've heard from SF and NY.  Haven't heard the others, but Jimmy was def way into it and giving it his all no doubt.

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There were actually two shows in London, maybe that bootleg was other show?

Yes, probably.

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I reckon the Firm was his best live playing post-Zep. Everyone says the Outrider '88 and PP '98 tours were awesome, but they were essentially looking backwards, not forward. The Firm was last time he was plowing ahead, trying new things. He wasn't just churning out rock 'n' roll for the 800th time. 

IMO, Outrider was a more forward move for Page than the Firm.  Much of the that band's music sounds rather pedestrian to me.  The musicianship was solid for the most part but their songs were the same old, same old.  

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Yes, probably.

Yes, it's most likely from the Prince's Trust Benefit  9/20/83, it's been so long since I had the album that I forgot about it, and had to do a little info searching to refresh my memory. But like I said it sounds really good and is worth grabbing if you come across one, if you like the ARMS stuff.

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The Firm play Detroit, Michigan - May 2, 1986. Thanks go to youtube poster Mark Zep for this full concert. :thumbsup:

I was there !  First time I saw Jimmy since the Silverdome....9 years !  I remember being a little worried about this show, until about 20 seconds in to "Fortune Hunter".  Then I just relaxed.  The Firm catalog was much more moodier live than the sterile studio versions.  Loved the pyramid because I flashed back to the Silverdome show.

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As a musician I was a little shocked to hear the similarities in Page's Outrider song "Wasting My Time" and Billy Squire's "Everybody Wants You".

Billy Squire 'Everybody Wants You' - 1982

Jimmy Page 'Wasting My Time' - 1988

The similarities are too close to be a coincidence IMHO.

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I just went through all 25 pages and I did not see this posted anywhere in regards to the full show.. Thanks to David Estrada Insanity for the upload!!!

 

The Firm - Edinburgh 5 20 85 Soundboard:thumbsup:

 

 

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Steve, I know you posted one about 15 minutes long from this night...here is a longer version. Again thanks to David Estrada Insanity:-)

 

The Firm 5-16-86 OKC Soundboard HQ

 

 

 

 

 

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Those firm videos posted were great, watched both of them. What strikes me is not only is it interesting how jimmy page reinvented himself w this band, but how they developed a band which fit paul rodgers voice very well too. Seeing the band play illustrates the aspects of the firm, subtle and simple, to dynamic and heavy. They were also a cool band for that particular time...mtv era and how great was it for jimmy page to bounce back with a band like that. In retrospect, i think the music media sort of limited that bands success by calling them a supergroup, because of the seemingly, initially...simplicity that those songs had. But i think many music fans of zep and bad co have gone back to those firm records over the years and really enjoyed them. I have

With the 84 show, wow they were very well rehearsed and tight. I liked the bass guitar sound better live here than the records. Although ive grown to like the fretlless bass on the records over the years. Also with this show, i noticed how jimmy was more sparing and studio like compared to the 86 show, leaving more space and focussing more on the overall sound. On make or break towards the end, page isnt soloing over that hypnotic riff as on the record, its mostly rodgers singing. But the effect is cool live, the hypnotic riff builds and i was sorry to hear the song end.

On the 86 show, this is more like a touring jimmy page, a bit out of control, repeating himself in solos, but in the moment all the time. Interesting that he chose a lengthened solo section in, money cant buy and it was cool how the drummer turned that into a tribal beat at the end. With the 2nd firm albums worth of songs being added, what a big rock show that was back then. 

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I just went through all 25 pages and I did not see this posted anywhere in regards to the full show.. Thanks to David Estrada Insanity for the upload!!!

 

The Firm - Edinburgh 5 20 85 Soundboard:thumbsup:

Now this is the best one that I've ever heard! :thumbsup:

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