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pagemccartney95

Zep and the Beatles

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The musical ingenuity of The Beatles lies in their vocal talent. They had great melody and harmony that fit perfectly with their lyrics. The instrumentation may not be anything to gawk at but that wasn't their style in the first place. John, Paul, George, and Ringo's true talent shone through in their separate solo careers due to Paul's control issues.

And when lyrics really hit you and relate to you, the instrumentation doesn't matter. That's why I love Within You Without You and Yesterday (and lots of Bob Dylan songs). I can't relate to most of Led Zeppelin's music, lyrically. I'm not a sex God that gets his lemons squeezed every night.

Melody and harmony are instrumentation, just using the human voice as the instrument. It was that great use of chord structure that made the Beatles magical. And some of that instrumentation (other than vocal) is definitely gawk-worthy.

BTW, my friend Karen squeezed Paul's lemon personally back in the day. She's very proud of that! ;)

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Melody and harmony are instrumentation, just using the human voice as the instrument. It was that great use of chord structure that made the Beatles magical. And some of that instrumentation (other than vocal) is definitely gawk-worthy.

BTW, my friend Karen squeezed Paul's lemon personally back in the day. She's very proud of that! ;)

instrumentation =/= vocalization

and that's really weird.

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Melody and harmony are instrumentation, just using the human voice as the instrument. It was that great use of chord structure that made the Beatles magical. And some of that instrumentation (other than vocal) is definitely gawk-worthy.

BTW, my friend Karen squeezed Paul's lemon personally back in the day. She's very proud of that! ;)

i'm totally with you on that. i seem to remember a story about the beatles getting high with dylan and asking him about the words of his songs, and bob asking george where they got those crazy chords at. "revolver" in particular, has some of the best recorded guitar, to-date.

yep....i said it.

a cute cartoon of dylan and the beatles:

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I think back in the seventies Led Zeppelin themselves were to blame for the lack of media attention in the UK. It was their decision. They made the choice of not appearing on TV, not releasing singles in the UK and not doing many interviews. They deliberately shunned the media. Which is fine if that's what they wanted. I wasn't alive in the 70s but it appears they got a fair amount of coverage in the music magazines of the time, but sadly, very limited coverage in mainstream newspapers and on radio and television.

America had album rock radio stations, which was perfect for Zep's album orientated rock. Perhaps it would have made more sense to release singles in the UK rather than America?

To be honest I think it's one of things one of the things that makes them a lot cooler than most bands. No need to rely on the media, it was purely the music that gave them popularity and they also created a great air of mystique that few other bands have manage to achieve.

You say it like it is a bad thing, they didn't want their music to be popular because of how many ads, interviews, TV apperances, or commercials they were in. It all based solely on their music and their fans. That is why I will always have a little more respect for Zeppelin then I would for the Beatles, they were in the spotlight almost all the time.

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You say it like it is a bad thing, they didn't want their music to be popular because of how many ads, interviews, TV apperances, or commercials they were in. It all based solely on their music and their fans. That is why I will always have a little more respect for Zeppelin then I would for the Beatles, they were in the spotlight almost all the time.

Well, again I don't think that's a fair comparison, because the popular music climate was so different when the Beatles emerged, they'd have had no chance of the kind of worldwide success they had without doing all the interviews etc. In fact, before them no band HAD success on that sort of scale, they created the enormous interest in youth-oriented music that later made it possible for Zep to do it their way. If the Beatles had done it the same way--putting out albums without the band's name on them, no singles, no TV, etc.--in 1963, we'd still never have heard of them.

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Well, again I don't think that's a fair comparison, because the popular music climate was so different when the Beatles emerged, they'd have had no chance of the kind of worldwide success they had without doing all the interviews etc. In fact, before them no band HAD success on that sort of scale, they created the enormous interest in youth-oriented music that later made it possible for Zep to do it their way. If the Beatles had done it the same way--putting out albums without the band's name on them, no singles, no TV, etc.--in 1963, we'd still never have heard of them.

I see what you are saying, but Zeppelin also had the choice to release singles and have interviews and let their songs appear in commercials and ads and in movies. But they chose to stay off the main-stream path and rely on their music and fan base. Sure it was more difficult at first, and they didn't get the respect they deserved till decades later, but they did it anyway.

They were only famous to their fans, to the general public they were seen as dirty hippies. I know this may not have worked for The Beatles and they did what they had to to get where they are, but in the end, I have more respect for Zeppelin.

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The musical ingenuity of The Beatles lies in their vocal talent. They had great melody and harmony that fit perfectly with their lyrics.

I don't disagree there.

Musically though, the Beatles don't go far enough for me. I like 'em but their 'music' doesn't take me to somewhere I've never been before like Zeppelin's music takes me.

Maybe that was their intention...to remain grounded in Liverpool, or at least looking at those 10,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire. :unsure:

The instrumentation may not be anything to gawk at but that wasn't their style in the first place.

I know that. It was Zeppelin's style though and I thank Zeppelin for making me gawk at their musicianship.

And when lyrics really hit you and relate to you, the instrumentation doesn't matter. That's why I love Within You Without You and Yesterday (and lots of Bob Dylan songs).

Then what's the point of listening to music if the 'instrumentation doesn't matter'?

Why not stick to poetry instead?

Dylans voice and his musical abilities don't appeal to me very much. In that respect, I care not a jot what he's writing about. I'd rather read a book if I want to relate to words.

I can't relate to most of Led Zeppelin's music, lyrically.

I don't listen to music to 'relate' to lyrics. I listen to music to get into the groove and the awesome dynamics and complexities of the sounds coming out of the speakers. When Plant is singing his head off on something like Black Dog it's how he's singing it, not what he's singing that does it for me. Plants way of using his voice like one of the instruments in the group (at least in the early years) very very much appeals to me.

Jimmy Page can bring out more emotion and more beauty in an abstract way with some of his guitar playing than lyrics ever can, in my opinion.

Like I said, Mozart didn't even need lyrics and his music lacks absolutely nothing. I'm guessing you don't care for classical music because it doesn't rely on lyrics to get it's 'message' across?

I'm not a sex God that gets his lemons squeezed every night.

I'm not The Apeman or The Walrus and I couldn't give a rat's bum if Sgt Pepper had a Lonely Hearts Club Band or not. As for Rita the Meter Maid, nope, never saw her and I was never a traffic warden so I couldn't relate to that either..:D

Edited by Mangani

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I don't get the persistent comparing betwee Zeppelin and The Beatles. They are from different era, they have totally different style and make different music. And they both have huge success.

We all have our preference this way or the other, but to say things like "who can't hold a candle to whom" is beyond my understanding. At least state it as your opinion but NOT as a fact.

The musicians seem to have enough respect towards each other. Paul and Robert had a nice chat early this year at the Grammys, I don't think they were talking about which band was bigger. :rolleyes:

Edited by glicine

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I'm not The Apeman or The Walrus and I couldn't give a rat's bum if Sgt Pepper had a Lonely Hearts Club Band or not. As for Rita the Meter Maid, nope, never saw her and I was never a traffic warden so I couldn't relate to that either..:D

:lol:

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I don't get the persistent comparing betwee Zeppelin and The Beatles. They are from different era, they have totally different style and make different music. And they both have huge success.

We all have our preference this way or the other, but to say things like "who can't hold a candle to whom" is beyond my understanding. At least state it as your opinion but NOT as a fact.

The musicians seem to have enough respect towards each other. Paul and Robert had a nice chat early this year at the Grammys, I don't think they were talking about which band was bigger. :rolleyes:

:goodpost:

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I don't disagree there.

Musically though, the Beatles don't go far enough for me. I like 'em but their 'music' doesn't take me to somewhere I've never been before like Zeppelin's music takes me.

Maybe that was their intention...to remain grounded in Liverpool, or at least looking at those 10,000 holes in Blackburn, Lancashire. :unsure:

I know that. It was Zeppelin's style though and I thank Zeppelin for making me gawk at their musicianship.

Then what's the point of listening to music if the 'instrumentation doesn't matter'?

Why not stick to poetry instead?

Dylans voice and his musical abilities don't appeal to me very much. In that respect, I care not a jot what he's writing about. I'd rather read a book if I want to relate to words.

I don't listen to music to 'relate' to lyrics. I listen to music to get into the groove and the awesome dynamics and complexities of the sounds coming out of the speakers. When Plant is singing his head off on something like Black Dog it's how he's singing it, not what he's singing that does it for me. Plants way of using his voice like one of the instruments in the group (at least in the early years) very very much appeals to me.

Jimmy Page can bring out more emotion and more beauty in an abstract way with some of his guitar playing than lyrics ever can, in my opinion.

Like I said, Mozart didn't even need lyrics and his music lacks absolutely nothing. I'm guessing you don't care for classical music because it doesn't rely on lyrics to get it's 'message' across?

I'm not The Apeman or The Walrus and I couldn't give a rat's bum if Sgt Pepper had a Lonely Hearts Club Band or not. As for Rita the Meter Maid, nope, never saw her and I was never a traffic warden so I couldn't relate to that either..:D

To me, the instrumentation doesn't matter when a song's main focus is on the lyrics. It changes from artist to artist and song to song. Obviously if a song focuses on instrumentation I will focus on that. Ideally a medium should be found between both.

and that's not exactly a fair comparison. Those are obviously drug-riddled lyrics and that's an exception. I've never seen Cinderalla pull out a cigarette Betty Davis-style but Desolation Row still has an impact on me.

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and that's not exactly a fair comparison. Those are obviously drug-riddled lyrics and that's an exception.

I know. :D

But squeezing lemons (or LOTR references) aren't the be all and end all of Zeppelin's lyrics either.

Just sayin'. :)

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I know. :D

But squeezing lemons (or LOTR references) aren't the be all and end all of Zeppelin's lyrics either.

Just sayin'. :)

The majority of Led Zeppelin songs are a bout sex, just as the majority of Beatles songs are about love. Exceptions on both sides, sure, but tomato/tomahto.

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The majority of Led Zeppelin songs are a bout sex, just as the majority of Beatles songs are about love. Exceptions on both sides, sure, but tomato/tomahto.

Are we having a different Zeppelin catalogue? :blink:

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Good Times, Bad Times- Relationships, sex

Communication Breakdown - ^

You Shook Me - Sex

Dazed and Confused- relationships, sex

Whole Lotta Love - Sex

Heartbreaker - sex

Lemon Song - sex

Living Loving Maid - sex

Black Dog - sex

Custard Pie - sex

Trampled Underfoot - definitely sex

The Wanton Song- relationships, sex

Sick Again - sex

We're Gonna Groove - sex

Wearing and Tearing - sex

that's just the songs I remember

not to mention the sexual over/undertones in the live performances of other songs.

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Beatles's and Zeppelin ..... two very different group's with the same general influence's but different interpretation's.

Both where English band's that where heavily influenced by the American southern Country, City Blues and Jazz of the 1920's and 1930's. There is a strong taste of the music of the 1950's American Rock and Roll with in both band's as well.

The Beatles's where more on the POP side with Paul McCarthy doing a lot of song writing and Zeppelin was a bit more Country Blues with Page's guitar style's and riff-age.

They both where radically different than anything before them and they both had new appearance's that where outlandish and non trendy (at first).

Lennon had the closer connection with the Zeppelin like Country Blues than the rest of the group. Who knows, if he had been more of a technical guitar player they may have had a more Zeppelin like sound.

Some of them where from mainly simple family background's struggling for survival, John Paul Jones's and McCartney came from professional musical family back grounds. Lennon & Star where from broken home's, Plant was from a country family and had tie's with CBS. Bonham was from a cow farming family and I believe that Page's family was at least comfortable. Harrison was from simple upbringing's and the whole Beatles thing has the echos of the Skiffle sound they where playing at the start of there band The Quarrymen.

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I appreciate the Beatles for their studio albums (Sgt. Peppers, Revolver, etc.) and appreciate Led Zeppelin more as a live group,

I don't think Led Zeppelin ever made a studio album anywhere near as good as Sgt. Peppers or some other Beatles albums but the Beatles never made anything as raw as a good live Led Zeppelin recording :)

I love both the same.

Edited by pevsfreedom

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The majority of Led Zeppelin songs are a bout sex, just as the majority of Beatles songs are about love. Exceptions on both sides, sure, but tomato/tomahto.

I Saw Her Standing There is not about love. It's about wanting to get her in the sack.

Ticket To Ride? That's not about a bus journey.

Come on now, the Beatles were shag monsters too. :D

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I Saw Her Standing There is not about love. It's about wanting to get her in the sack.

Ticket To Ride? That's not about a bus journey.

Come on now, the Beatles were shag monsters too. :D

like I said, exceptions on both sides. But in the early sixties, puppy love was far more marketable.

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Good Times, Bad Times- Relationships, sex

Communication Breakdown - ^

You Shook Me - Sex

Dazed and Confused- relationships, sex

Whole Lotta Love - Sex

Heartbreaker - sex

Lemon Song - sex

Living Loving Maid - sex

Black Dog - sex

Custard Pie - sex

Trampled Underfoot - definitely sex

The Wanton Song- relationships, sex

Sick Again - sex

We're Gonna Groove - sex

Wearing and Tearing - sex

that's just the songs I remember

not to mention the sexual over/undertones in the live performances of other songs.

Here's almost an entire Zeppelin album's worth of non-sex songs:

Immigrant Song

Friends

Celebration Day

Out On The Tiles

Gallows Pole

Tangerine

That's The Way

Bron-Y-Aur Stomp

And another almost whole album:

The Battle Of Evermore

Stairway To Heaven

Misty Mountain Hop

Four Sticks

Going To California

When The Levee Breaks

and, wait for it:

The Song Remains The Same

The Rain Song

Over The Hills And Far Away

Dancing Days

No Quarter

The Ocean

and:

The Rover

In My Time Of Dying

Kashmir

In The Light

Down By The Seaside

Ten Years Gone

Night Flight

Black Country Woman

and:

Achilles' Last Stand

Nobody's Fault But Mine

Hots On For Nowhere

Tea For One

sigh:

In The Evening

Fool In The Rain

Hot Dog

Carouselambra

All My Love

I'm Gonna Crawl

honorable mention:

Poor Tom

Travelling Riverside Blues

and that's just off the top of my head! ;)

Edited by Evster2012

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But do you really think Led Zeppelin are associated with their blistering songwriting talent?

Is that really a question? :blink:

I guess that would depend on who you ask.

I hate to go straight for the obvious, but they did write the most requested song in FM radio history.

Compositionally, Jimmy Page is in a class of his own. Nobody can deny Jones' qualifications. While I'll admit Plant's lyrics can at times be oblique, he's nonetheless a master of interpretive imagery. And certainly Bonham's drumming elevated any song he applied it to, whether with Zeppelin or Lord Sutch or whomever.

Edited by Evster2012

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Okay, worded it wrong. But do you really think Led Zeppelin are associated with their blistering songwriting talent?

If you are asking ME, then yes, I do.

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Is that really a question? :blink:

I guess that would depend on who you ask.

I hate to go straight for the obvious, but they did write the most requested song in FM radio history.

Compositionally, Jimmy Page is in a class of his own. Nobody can deny Jones' qualifications. While I'll admit Plant's lyrics can at times be oblique, he's nonetheless a master of interpretive imagery. And certainly Bonham's drumming elevated any song he applied it to, whether with Zeppelin or Lord Sutch or whomever.

agreed on Bonham and Jones. In my opinion only second to Moon/Entwhistle as the best rhythm section in music.

in this thread: different strokes for different folks

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