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But that could just be rumors Ev. Were you actually in the room with Joe Jackson while he was abusing his children? Was it ever proven in court that he had abused his children? In fact, wouldn't the police have arrested him if there was any real proof of child abuse?

I prefer to reserve judgement on that issue and beleive that he was just trying to provide for his family the best way he could.

Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Michael claimed he was 'beaten'. No....Michael was given some old fashioned 60's discipline, and he refers to it as a beating. We live in an era where if a Mother spanks a child in a grocery store, she gets some cold hard stares. In the 60's, parents didn't care if you understood what you did wrong. You'll have plenty time to contemplate that stuff in your room after a nice spanking/beating. This was normal. It happened to me....and I did not come from a dysfunctional family. My Brother once got in some trouble with the cops when he was 12 and it cost my Dad some money. He didn't get spanked....he got beaten with a belt. It was no different at school. A teacher or Principal can't lay a hand on you now. However in the 60's, that wooden paddle was hanging on the wall for everyone to see, and that "board of education" packed a wallop on your bare ass. Could you imagine what an uproar it would cause today if a teacher or Principal asked a child to take his pants down for a good wallop in a private room ?

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Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Michael claimed he was 'beaten'. No....Michael was given some old fashioned 60's discipline, and he refers to it as a beating. We live in an era where if a Mother spanks a child in a grocery store, she gets some cold hard stares. In the 60's, parents didn't care if you understood what you did wrong. You'll have plenty time to contemplate that stuff in your room after a nice spanking/beating. This was normal. It happened to me....and I did not come from a dysfunctional family. My Brother once got in some trouble with the cops when he was 12 and it cost my Dad some money. He didn't get spanked....he got beaten with a belt. It was no different at school. A teacher or Principal can't lay a hand on you now. However in the 60's, that wooden paddle was hanging on the wall for everyone to see, and that "board of education" packed a wallop on your bare ass. Could you imagine what an uproar it would cause today if a teacher or Principal asked a child to take his pants down for a good wallop in a private room ?

First, I think Del was being tongue in cheek in his post and relating it to other stuff we've been dialoging on elsewhere.

Second, I was being facetious in addressing Eternal Light.

In the end, I don't think Michael's children deserve any more concern than any other children who are left in the wind. They all need a loving home. All children. And I think it stinks on ice that these particular children have to have the likes of us and the public in general saying what we think is best for them. I say leave them out of it. Who are we to determine what's best for them?

And I got my ass paddled a bunch too.

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First, I think Del was being tongue in cheek in his post and relating it to other stuff we've been dialoging on elsewhere.

Second, I was being facetious in addressing Eternal Light.

In the end, I don't think Michael's children deserve any more concern than any other children who are left in the wind. They all need a loving home. All children. And I think it stinks on ice that these particular children have to have the likes of us and the public in general saying what we think is best for them. I say leave them out of it. Who are we to determine what's best for them?

And I got my ass paddled a bunch too.

Even if he was, it was a fine time to reiterate mine. :rolleyes:

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This is some of the latest from TMZ who have the best souraces right now....

"Michael Jackson used a slew of aliases to score prescription meds, and we know the two names that could unlock the key to gross abuse by Jackson and some prominent doctors.

We've learned Jackson frequently used the names Omar Arnold and Jack London to get powerful drugs, including Demerol. Jackson also used the name of one of his bodyguards, as well as the name of the office manager for one of his doctors.

The DEA, which is joining to assist the LAPD in its investigation of several doctors who prescribed drugs to Jackson, will be hunting down these names and others.

Sources tell us the prescription abuse was so egregious, one doctor would call the pharmacy and say Jackson was coming down to get Demerol. The pharmacy would then fill the prescription, leaving the patient's name blank."

This sounds like Elvis Presley all over again..

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And here's another one..

Multiple sources tell TMZ Michael Jackson's body had dozens of injection sites all over his body.

As we first reported, Propofol, a powerful anesthesia, was found in the house after Jackson died. Various medical experts tell us there is absolutely no medical justification for Jackson to have had this drug in his home -- it is used to knock people out before surgery. It is administered through an IV.

We're told Jackson wanted the drug to sleep and that he had cravings for anesthesia -- whenever he had even the most minor medical procedure ... he had the doctor put him under.

It is increasingly looking like Propofol may have caused Jackson to go into cardiac arrest and die. The doctors we spoke with say it's reckless for any doctor to supply Jackson with Propofol and especially reckless to administer it to him at home.

The fact that Jackson had dozens of injection sites on his body would have made it clear to any doctor that Jackson had a drug problem.

Criminal manslaughter is defined as the reckless disregard for human life. The talk in law enforcement -- this case seems to fit the bill.

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Once you have carefully assembled and analyzed all the facts, then you draw a conclusion, not before.

Also, TMZ is known for dishing gossip fodder, not necessarily reliable facts, so they put a certain spin on stories to grab the public's attention with sensationalistic headlines.

If you google their website, they even have a link named 'Horrific' that you can click to get the really appalling chit chat.

Geez.

Edited by eternal light
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Once you have carefully assembled and analyzed all the facts, then you draw a conclusion, not before.

Also, TMZ is known for dishing gossip fodder, not necessarily reliable facts, so they put a certain spin on stories to grab the public's attention with sensationalistic headlines.

If you google their website, they even have a link named 'Horrific' that you can click to get the really appalling chit chat.

Geez.

That's what i am doing. TMZ is surprisingly a good source. They have broken news on things before CNN and other networks have. Including Jacksons death. They confirmed it before anyone.

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Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. Michael claimed he was 'beaten'. No....Michael was given some old fashioned 60's discipline, and he refers to it as a beating. We live in an era where if a Mother spanks a child in a grocery store, she gets some cold hard stares. In the 60's, parents didn't care if you understood what you did wrong. You'll have plenty time to contemplate that stuff in your room after a nice spanking/beating. This was normal. It happened to me....and I did not come from a dysfunctional family. My Brother once got in some trouble with the cops when he was 12 and it cost my Dad some money. He didn't get spanked....he got beaten with a belt. It was no different at school. A teacher or Principal can't lay a hand on you now. However in the 60's, that wooden paddle was hanging on the wall for everyone to see, and that "board of education" packed a wallop on your bare ass. Could you imagine what an uproar it would cause today if a teacher or Principal asked a child to take his pants down for a good wallop in a private room ?

God damn right they can't. When I was old enough to start Kindergarten, one of the schools my parents were looking at, unbeknownst to them, still used corporal punishment. They were sitting there listening to the principal talk about what the school day would consist of, how much tuition would be and what not and when he got to talking about spankings/paddlings.....my dad flipped his shit. He told the guy that the only people allowed to spank his children were their parents and that if any teacher in that school laid a hand on me, they'd meet his fist first and his lawyer second. They promptly went to another school.

After what my parents had to go through as children (daily beatings and being thrown into walls), they swore when they had kids they'd find some other means of disciplining them. My dad got into a fight with his own brother about this a few years ago. My uncle whipped my cousins, sometimes to the point the buckle would break off the belt and my dad would be foaming at the mouth over it. He told his brother that if you have to raise your hand in anger to your child to discipline them because you can't think of any other way, you have no business being a parent. If my mom hadn't stepped in, WWIII would have broken out.

I have to tend to agree, though. I had a lot of friends growing up who were beaten and whipped by their parents and right now......they're fucked up beyond all belief. They didn't come from dysfunctional or bad homes, either. I don't keep in touch with many of them, but some other friends of mine do and they relay what's going on with them to me and it's just sad.

I absolutely cannot condone what Joe Jackson did to those kids, I don't give a rat's ass if it was the norm or not. I think a lot of what happened to Michael when he was a kid formed what he became as an adult.

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God damn right they can't. When I was old enough to start Kindergarten, one of the schools my parents were looking at, unbeknownst to them, still used corporal punishment. They were sitting there listening to the principal talk about what the school day would consist of, how much tuition would be and what not and when he got to talking about spankings/paddlings.....my dad flipped his shit. He told the guy that the only people allowed to spank his children were their parents and that if any teacher in that school laid a hand on me, they'd meet his fist first and his lawyer second. They promptly went to another school.

After what my parents had to go through as children (daily beatings and being thrown into walls), they swore when they had kids they'd find some other means of disciplining them. My dad got into a fight with his own brother about this a few years ago. My uncle whipped my cousins, sometimes to the point the buckle would break off the belt and my dad would be foaming at the mouth over it. He told his brother that if you have to raise your hand in anger to your child to discipline them because you can't think of any other way, you have no business being a parent. If my mom hadn't stepped in, WWIII would have broken out.

I have to tend to agree, though. I had a lot of friends growing up who were beaten and whipped by their parents and right now......they're fucked up beyond all belief. They didn't come from dysfunctional or bad homes, either. I don't keep in touch with many of them, but some other friends of mine do and they relay what's going on with them to me and it's just sad.

I absolutely cannot condone what Joe Jackson did to those kids, I don't give a rat's ass if it was the norm or not. I think a lot of what happened to Michael when he was a kid formed what he became as an adult.

I have said this many times before. What happens to you as a kid forms what type of adult you become. His father made fun of his looks including his nose when he was young and he grew up with a bad view of his looks. That indian doctor friend of his was saying it. That was why he had his nose fixed and changed his looks. He didn't like what he saw in the mirror. I can relate to that. If i had the money i would have some work done. Not to his extent though. He went so far he compeletely ruined his face.

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And here's another one..

Multiple sources tell TMZ Michael Jackson's body had dozens of injection sites all over his body.

As we first reported, Propofol, a powerful anesthesia, was found in the house after Jackson died. Various medical experts tell us there is absolutely no medical justification for Jackson to have had this drug in his home -- it is used to knock people out before surgery. It is administered through an IV.

We're told Jackson wanted the drug to sleep and that he had cravings for anesthesia -- whenever he had even the most minor medical procedure ... he had the doctor put him under.

It is increasingly looking like Propofol may have caused Jackson to go into cardiac arrest and die. The doctors we spoke with say it's reckless for any doctor to supply Jackson with Propofol and especially reckless to administer it to him at home.

The fact that Jackson had dozens of injection sites on his body would have made it clear to any doctor that Jackson had a drug problem.

Criminal manslaughter is defined as the reckless disregard for human life. The talk in law enforcement -- this case seems to fit the bill.

As a nurse I find the presence of Propofol (Diprivan) in a private residence very alarming. I only administered Propofol to patients already on a ventilator, or with anesthesia back-up and an intubation tray within inches. If this Propofol story is true, then any physician or nurse involved in this needs to go to jail. It's that simple. Any nurse or physician that administers Propofol in a home setting without oxygen, cardiac monitors and an intubation tray are in violation of basic medical standards, not to mention the Nurse Practice Act and the Hippocratic oath ("do no harm").

Edited by Kentuckygirl
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As a nurse I find the presence of Propofol in a private residence very alarming. I only administered Propofol to patients already on a ventilator, or with anesthesia back-up and an intubation tray within inches. If this Propofol story is true, then any physician or nurse involved in this needs to go to jail. It's that simple. Any nurse or physician that administers Propofol in a home setting without oxygen, cardiac monitors and an intubation tray are in violation of basic medical standards, not to mention the Nurse Practice Act and the Hippocratic oath ("do no harm").

One of the greatest truisms is that money is the root of all evil. If enablers provided him this crap to stay in his good graces (and thereby maintain ridiculously undeserved salaries) instead of going to his family (or the press if necessary), for intervention...then off to prison with them. Have a nice trip.

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Thank God the media is focusing on what really matters: Michael Jackson. :rolleyes:

I'm surprised that they are not planning a farewell (funeral) tour.

They can still use the "THIS IS IT" logo for the planned tour in London. Then they ship the body from one city to another, starts in Gary Indiana, then NY, fly him to London, then back through every major city until it reaches LA and Neverland..

They could probably get away with something like that, charge $5 to offsets costs..

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But we don't know all the facts yet, only the gossip dished out by TMZ.

Don't you know that in a ignominious sort of way they breathed a sigh of relief when their bulletin proved to be correct? They were the first with the death announcement. Gotta go for the scoop.

Aah the media we love.

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