Michael Jackson in hospital

[Dzldoc]

This idiot on CNN is comparing him to Princess Diana. Don't you associate Michael Jackson with that great lady. That's an insult to her memory.

Exactly, it really pissed me off to find out he was a perv. because he had such great talent and yes I did like his live performances.

What a waste

[allthekingshorses]

I really don't think Michael had a sexual attraction to children at all. He was just a strange man fucked up by his childhood (or lack thereof) and had a misplaced affection and sense of protection for children in an effort to make sure they didn't end up like him. He was a troubled man but Michael Jackson was not a pedophile.

This is basically how I think of him. But I don't discount that the accusations could have been true. I do think he was largely misunderstood and a bit strange. Those two combined make a bad picture.

All I know is I was a huge fan back in the Thriller days.

[TonyV]

I sure remember the Deadheads in Golden Gate Park holding vigil for Jerry. No one questioned their devotion.

Surely Jackson's fans should be permitted to grieve in their own way.

Agreed. I was one of fans in DC grieving the loss of Jerry with a thousand others at the Lincoln Memorial (why there I can't quite recall...). The loss was huge and those who were fans took comfort in being together to express their feelings, and I don't recall any static towards us. Michael Jackson's fans should be accorded the same respect.

I don't feel the same way about Michael Jackson but totally understand how the feelings can be. Jackson's music has had an undeniable impact on our culture- it's totally on the scale of Elvis. Upon hearing of Jackson's illness first and then death quickly thereafter I completely flashed back to Elvis dying- very similar.

[ZPN]

I'm not a fan of Jackson's music. I kind of like the Jackson 5 stuff, but not his solo work.

I don't understand why he's so highly regarded as a musician. He was a phenomenal dancer.

Someone interviewed on BBC news right when it was confirmed said it would be as big (or maybe she said bigger) than when Elvis died. I'm not an Elvis fan, but Elvis was such a HUGE influence on many of my favorite musicians (Robert/Led Zep, Hiatt, Landreth, The Beatles...)

that I understand the depth of the reaction to Elvis' death. I just don't think Jackson is

comparable. Nor to Lennon. Lennon's death was the hard one for me. I never liked that Jackson had the rights to The Beatles' music.

To be honest, my reaction (MJ's death) was that it might be a good thing, if it spares some children. I know he was not convicted. That doesn't mean he was innocent, it just means he was not proven guilty, in legal terms, beyond reasonable doubt. As far as I know, most rapes/sexual assaults do not result in convictions, because there are usually no witnesses and little evidence. At least with kids, they can't claim it was consensual sex. I don't believe kids could lie about something like that-the only way I would have even known there was such a thing as rape/sexual assault when I was a kid, was if someone had done it to me. Maybe kids these days are warned about it, but I don't remember ever being told anything. I remember reading about a rape in the newspaper when I got older, and when I learned what it meant, I was so shocked, and felt physically ill. I also believe women when they say they were raped. What woman would put herself through a rape trial (or accuse someone falsely) if she hadn't been?! But I could certainly be wrong, generally, and specifically as it relates to MJ. There's still the thing about him hanging his kid out the window, and whatever they were wearing that looked like they were in a bubble...

I don't think celebrities should be excused for behavior that would not be tolerated if it were done by the average person, just because they are "creative types" or, as that dumb-ass song says, "blame it on the alcohol" (or drugs). I don't watch Polanski films, because when I read about the case I found it revolting, and Polanski's statements about it made it even more so. I haven't watched a Woody Allen movie since he married his step daughter.

There are things I've read about Zeppelin that repulsed me (not the shark, which apparently was consensual). I don't know if they're true or not, but I hope they're not, because it would color my opinion of them and possibly cause me to enjoy their music less. Selfishly, I want to continue to enjoy it! I only recently became a fan, before I read those things, and from what I've read about what they're like now, they seem like they've grown up and are pretty decent guys.

Sorry I went off on a tangent (yes, I've been told I go on and on and on...emails, voicemails, etc.). I respect that many fans (and of course Jackson's family, friends & colleagues) will be sad about his death. I don't mean to offend anyone. I'm just honestly stating my initial reaction. I am always willing to change my mind, if it seems like there's good reason to.

And by the way, though I didn't follow Farrah Fawcett's (sp?) career, I felt very sad for her/her loved ones, when I heard that news today. Her fight with cancer seemed noble and inspiring, and she allowed her privacy to be infringed upon during an incredibly difficult and vulnerable time, in order to try to help other people who are dealing with cancer. I remember she also did a movie about domestic abuse (I don't think I ever saw it though) that made a big impact. That's a wonderful thing too.

[zosodude13]

I'm not a fan of Jackson's music. I kind of like the Jackson 5 stuff, but not his solo work.

I don't understand why he's so highly regarded as a musician. He was a phenomenal dancer.

Someone interviewed on BBC news right when it was confirmed said it would be as big (or maybe she said bigger) than when Elvis died. I'm not an Elvis fan, but Elvis was such a HUGE influence on many of my favorite musicians (Robert/Led Zep, Hiatt, Landreth, The Beatles...)

that I understand the depth of the reaction to Elvis' death. I just don't think Jackson is

comparable. Nor to Lennon. Lennon's death was the hard one for me. I never liked that Jackson had the rights to The Beatles' music.

Nothing will ever match John Lennon's death. The fact that he was killed, while Elvis and MJ died will always make his death a tragedy.

[Evster2012]

All this talk about "extra curricular activities" is just that, talk and innuendo.

He was never found guilty of anything and it's sad that is the only thing he will be remembered for is he paid someone off, obviously because some "great advice" from his lawyers.

Oddly, it was I who used the term "extra currlicular activites" in this thread. Pity everyone assumed I meant dalliances with childern. I guess I should have expected it. I was actually referring to strange behaviors like buying the bones of the elephant man, sleeping in a hyperbaric chamber, cutting his nose to a nub, etc. But if some folks want to go pouncing on child molestation accusations, that's fine. Just don't quote me when doing so.

[Zoso1968]

=( found out this afternoon.. and i too think its really sad that alot of ppl are going to remember him for the allegations... he really was a very talented person... and had such excellent music.. R.I.P.

[ninelives]

Maybe so, but isn't it what everyone else thinks?

One of the previously mentioned only has allegations toward him, cleared by a legal proceding. The other, however, is well known to have definately swam in treacherous waters and gets a ride.

Is it fair to denounce one and not the other? Or should we forgive and forget them both?

I'm open for discussion and hopefully will start listening to post Houses of the Holy songs and the latter Jackson material.

One Bad Apple sure was a good one!! Oh wait, that's the Osmonds. Nevermind.

Just my feelings but I find this not the most appropriate time to discuss all this. I know the allegations were out there against Michael but he just passed away suddenly and I don't know - seems rather wrong to be talking about them right now.

[MightyZep]

Such a talent. Wired a little differently than most but boy was he amazing. Rest in peace Michael Jackson.

I too own Thriller on album. It's a must have

[THE FIRST LEDZEP]

From 1993 on MJ did not create that much entertainment except for bizarre publicity.

RIP

[eternal light]

Alright, you've convinced me. I'm forgetting and forgiving.

Play ALL the songs!

God bless.

Here is a link to the official statement from the UCLA newsroom.

newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/media-reports-that-michael-jackson-94914

[Patrycja]

Just my feelings but I find this not the most appropriate time to discuss all this. I know the allegations were out there against Michael but he just passed away suddenly and I don't know - seems rather wrong to be talking about them right now.

While I think the allegations are fair for discussion, I agree that this isn't the time. If anything, right now the best one can comment on them is in the context of how sad and spiraling his life had become.

I very clearly remember seeing the "Thriller" video for the first time. It was such an event - my whole family sat together for the big premiere. When he turned around in the midst of his transformation into that beast and yelled, "Go away!" it scared the crap out of me. That video was so head and shoulders above anything that had come out up until then, and even for a long time since, it was just amazing.

Anyway, his demise seems as sad as his music was great.

[SteveAJones]

Sir Elton John has issued a press release announcing he shall record a tribute to Michael Jackson as he did for Princess Diana. Oh Let Your Son Go Down On Me is expected in stores next week:

I can't light no more of your darkness

And my skin seems to change from black to white

I'm growing tired and time stands still before me

Frozen here on the ladder of my life

Too late to save myself from falling

I took a chance and changed your way of life

But you misread my meaning when I met you

Closed the door and left me blinded by the light

Oh, let your son go down on me

Although I search myself, it's always someone else I see

I'd just allow a fragment of your life to wander free

But losing everything is worth your son going down on me

I can't find, oh the right romantic line

But see me once and see the way I feel

Don't discard me just because you think I mean you harm

But these cuts I have they need love to help them heal

(repeat chorus)

[Patrycja]

Your puns rival Shakespeare's that they do SAJ. Still waiting for a verse and chorus about Lori Madddox but that would mean holding everyone up to the same standard.

[SteveAJones]

Your puns rival Shakespeare's that they do SAJ. Still waiting for a verse and chorus about Lori Madddox but that would mean holding everyone up to the same standard.

...and Lori? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

[Patrycja]

By the way, MJ was said to have died of cardiac arrest rather than a heart attack. I thought that was the same thing, no? Anybody know the difference?

[Evster2012]

A heart attack is a loss of blood to the heart muscle resulting in damage to the organ. Cardiac arrest is a stopping of heart funtion not necessarily related to blood flow.

For example, electric shock can stop the heart resulting in cardiac arrest. This has nothing to do with arterial blockage ie: a heart attack.

*edit to add* sorry, had to finish my cigarette. Cardiac arrest means literally heart stops. In the case of a heart attack, the heart can continure to beat, but with a restricted flow of blood to the heart muscle ie: heart muscle dies.

Miocardial Infarction:

A heart attack (also known as a myocardial infarction) is the death of heart muscle from the sudden blockage of a coronary artery by a blood clot.

Coronary arrest:

The heart sustains an insult, the electricity is short circuited, the heart can't pump, and the body dies.

[Lake of Shadows]

Just my feelings but I find this not the most appropriate time to discuss all this. I know the allegations were out there against Michael but he just passed away suddenly and I don't know - seems rather wrong to be talking about them right now.

Agreed.

While I think the allegations are fair for discussion, I agree that this isn't the time. If anything, right now the best one can comment on them is in the context of how sad and spiraling his life had become.

Agreed also. I also thought of the stuff that Evster mentioned... and that stuff was in the press long before the pedophile allegations.

I very clearly remember seeing the "Thriller" video for the first time. It was such an event - my whole family sat together for the big premiere. When he turned around in the midst of his transformation into that beast and yelled, "Go away!" it scared the crap out of me. That video was so head and shoulders above anything that had come out up until then, and even for a long time since, it was just amazing.

Anyway, his demise seems as sad as his music was great.

I loved the Thriller album and videos. I didn't listen to much of anything he did after that album... but that one was amazing. I liked a lot of the old Jackson 5 stuff, and still find them to be catchy. It was pretty sad to learn of some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that went on to make the Jackson 5 the group they were.

I admit that as things got more openly bizarre, his music seemed to take a backseat to the weird stuff. I never heard much after the the Thriller album and every time he made the news, it was just like one big WTF?

Sir Elton John has issued a press release announcing he shall record a tribute to Michael Jackson as he did for Princess Diana. Oh Let Your Son Go Down On Me is expected in stores next week:

I can't light no more of your darkness

And my skin seems to change from black to white

I'm growing tired and time stands still before me

Frozen here on the ladder of my life

Too late to save myself from falling

I took a chance and changed your way of life

But you misread my meaning when I met you

Closed the door and left me blinded by the light

Oh, let your son go down on me

Although I search myself, it's always someone else I see

I'd just allow a fragment of your life to wander free

But losing everything is worth your son going down on me

I can't find, oh the right romantic line

But see me once and see the way I feel

Don't discard me just because you think I mean you harm

But these cuts I have they need love to help them heal

(repeat chorus)

This, OTOH, is tacky as hell. Just my two cents worth.

(BTW, I hope you don't mind but I altered your post a little- just to fix the italics part).

[SteveAJones]

Alright, you've convinced me. I'm forgetting and forgiving.

Pay, Pay, Pay: Jackson acknowledges payouts to at least two kids.

Gary Susman

September 7, 2004

On Friday, just before NBC's ''Dateline'' aired a report that there was more than one boy to whom Michael Jackson had paid a multimillion-dollar settlement in response to child-molestation allegations, the pop star issued a statement confirming that he has paid out a number of such settlements in order to avoid the publicity of a trial. However, he insisted that none of the charges was true, and that he would ''never harm a child.''

[Patrycja]

...and Lori? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

hmm, a sonnet reference. I guess we'll be expecting that Lori poem in iambic pentameter?

Just to be clear, I'm not ignoring the allegations; they're very serious no matter who is accused, just thought it would better to discuss at a later time.

[~tangerine~]

By the way, MJ was said to have died of cardiac arrest rather than a heart attack. I thought that was the same thing, no? Anybody know the difference?

Most adults who go into cardiac arrest are in ventricular fibrillation (the most lethal heart arrythmia). Defibrillation within the first few minutes allows the best chance of survival, not CPR alone. A heart attack is a loss of oxygen to the heart muscle from a blockage of the blood flow, causing ischemia and if not treated quickly, death of the tissue in that area of the heart.

I haven't kept up with this story so i don't know how long it was from the time Michael collapsed until the EMT's arrived. Anyway, since Michael was loved by so many (my mom liked him a little), i will add RIP.

edit for typo

[Patrycja]

A heart attack is a loss of blood to the heart muscle resulting in damage to the organ. Cardiac arrest is a stopping of heart funtion not necessarily related to blood flow.

For example, electric shock can stop the heart resulting in cardiac arrest. This has nothing to do with arterial blockage ie: a heart attack.

*edit to add* sorry, had to finish my cigarette. Cardiac arrest means literally heart stops. In the case of a heart attack, the heart can continure to beat, but with a restricted flow of blood to the heart muscle ie: heart muscle dies.

Miocardial Infarction:

A heart attack (also known as a myocardial infarction) is the death of heart muscle from the sudden blockage of a coronary artery by a blood clot.

Coronary arrest:

The heart sustains an insult, the electricity is short circuited, the heart can't pump, and the body dies.

Ooh wow, I see. Thanks, Evster.

I wonder if a prescription cocktail can result in a coronary arrest? There's only so much stress a body can sustain and that roller coaster of tension and lots of pills is like a swing of a pendulum that eventually falls off its pivot. Well I guess we'll have to wait and see what caused it then, just to settle (or confirm) the speculation.

[SteveAJones]

Michael Jackson is well known for recording the world's best selling album, but the sales and achievements of his other solo albums are less publicized. Here's a list of Michael's solo albums - Motown and CBS/Epic - in order of release, together with known or estimated sales figures, plus known certifications.

Albums:

Studio Albums: 10

1. Got To Be There (1971)- 4,112,879

2. Ben (1972)- 4,401,605

3. Music and Me (1973)- 1,980,440

4. Forever, Michael (1975)- 1,687,234

5. Off The Wall (1979)- 20,000,000

6. Thriller (1982)- 65,000,000

7. Bad (1987)- 33,000,000

8. Dangerous (1991)- 30,000,000

9. HIStory: Past, Present and Future, Book l (1995)- 22,000,000 (44 million units)

10. Invincible (2001)- 12,000,000

Studio Albums Sold= 194,182,158

Compilations: 22

1. The Best of Michael Jackson (1975)- 2,500,223

2. One Day In Your Life (1981)- 1,600,208

3. Farewell My Summer (1984)-2,087,110

4. Looking Back to Yesterday (1986)- 302,330

5. 18 Greatest Hits (?)- 1,250,000

6. Anthology (?)- 2,655,098

7. Other Pre- 1991 Motown Compilations (?)- 500,000

8. Their Very Best- Back To Back (?)- 250,000

9. Love Songs (?)- 500,000

10. The Original Soul Of (?)- 377,745

11. The Michael Jackson Mix (?)- 500,000

12. The Best of- The Motown Years (?)- 300,000

13. The Best of- The Millennium Collection (?)- 200,000

14. Love Songs (?)- 50,000

15. Other Post- 1990 Motown Compilations (?)- 1,000,000

16. Special CD Box (?)- 4,000

17. Greatest Hits HIStory Volume 1 (2001)- 3,000,000

18. Number Ones (2003)- 7,000,000

19. Michael Jackson: The Ultimate Collection (2004)- 500,000

20. The Essential Michael Jackson (2005)- 2,500,000

21. Visionary: The Video Singles (2006)- 500,000

22. King of Pop (2008)- 700,000

Compilations Sold= 28,276,714

Other Albums: 4

1. E.T. The Extra- Terrestrial & Singles Packs (1982)- 100,000

2. Dangerous- The Remix Collection (?)- 22,000

3. Blood on the Dance Floor: HIStory in the Mix (1997)-8,000,000

4. Thriller: 25 (2008)- 3,000,000

Other Albums Sold= 11,122,000

Total Albums Sold= 233,580,872

[allthekingshorses]

Steven.A.Jones.

What on earth!

(my comment referring to the Elton John song)

[Patrycja]

Most adults who go into cardiac arrest are in ventricular fibrillation (the most lethal heart arrythmia). Defibrillation within the first few minutes allows the best chance of survival, not CPR alone. A heart attack is a loss of oxygen to the heart muscle from a blockage of the blood flow, causing ischemia and if not treated quickly, death of the tissue in that area of the heart.

I haven't kept up with this story so i don't know how long it was from the time Michael collapsed until the EMT's arrived. Anyway, since Michael was loved by so many (my mom liked him a little), i will add RIP.

edit for typo

Thanks, ~tangerine~. It sounds like someone who gets a heart attack has a better chance of surviving.

By the way, I understand your concerns (which you stated in previous post) about MJ and share them. It's difficult when the musical influence and the weird/disturbing stuff both cast such large shadows.