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The right to bear arms


DRUNK08

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As Lynyrd Skynyrd said:

Its a Saturday Night Special

Got a barrel that's blue and cold.

Ain't good for nothing

But put a man six feet in a hole.

Hand guns are meant for killin'

They ain't no good for nothin else.

And if you like your whiskey

You might even shoot yourself.

So why don't we dump them people

To the bottom of the sea.

Before some fool come around here

And wanna shoot either you or me.

I am not against having guns and using rifles and shot guns for hunting and for sport (however I could never kill an animal). And I believe we do have the right to bear arms.

But hand guns and assalt rifles are not used for these purposes, in general, and we could live without them being allowed in our society.

You could make an argument that hand guns can be used for sport: target shooting. But in a lawful, peaceful world, they are unecessary to be in the hands of the general population, unlike rifles and shot guns. You can target shoot with rifles and shot guns if you want to do this sport.

And uzis and assalt riffles. What purpose do they serve? They are weapons of war and should only be in the hands of soldiers. How did the general population obtain these in the first place? Greed on the part of gun dealers allowed the criminals to obtain them. That's capitalism for you!

Then again, I just saw the movie Public Enemy. The gangsers used tommy guns while the police and feds only had single shot riffles and hand guns to use against them. No match. How did the criminals obtain these weapons? Through the black market. Does law enforcement and the military need weapons of equal or greater power than what's available to the general population? I would say "yes". Do citizens need to have weapons of equal caliber to the military to maintain our freedom from a potential government suppression of our freedoms? I would say "no", but consider the people in Iran shown on tv after the recent elections. They can be seen waving uzis in the air. Does this show of force by the general population keep the government from cracking down and suppressing their rights to free speech and assembly? I would say, "yes", it has kept the government from taking more extreme measures in thier attempt to control these protests as the citizens could out and out rebel and uprise because these citizens have the fire power to fight.

So, should citizens be able to bear arms? Yes.

Should they have arms who's only purpose is for killing humans and warfare?

My opinion would be "no".

That is the debatable question. There is no right or wrong answer.

It comes down to: Do you trust your government to have the citizens' best interests at heart or do you mistrust them. And: Do you feel that crime would be lessened if firearms were more regulated, or do you feel that the criminals would get the weapons anyway and then you would have no way to defend yourself against them.

This topic has been debated for years, and will continue to be so for many more to come.

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Then again, I just saw the movie Public Enemy. The gangsers used tommy guns while the police and feds only had single shot riffles and hand guns to use against them. No match. How did the criminals obtain these weapons? Through the black market.

Until the National firearms Act of 1934 it was legal for anyone to own machine guns in the US. Actually, it still is, with the right paperwork. The NFA just made it more difficult.

but consider the people in Iran shown on tv after the recent elections. They can be seen waving uzis in the air.

Do you have a link that shows this? I'd would be interesting to know how Iranian civilians got hold of Israeli military weapons.

It comes down to: Do you trust your government to have the citizens' best interests at heart or do you mistrust them.

I mistrust them

And: Do you feel that crime would be lessened if firearms were more regulated, or do you feel that the criminals would get the weapons anyway and then you would have no way to defend yourself against them.

The latter

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Until the National firearms Act of 1934 it was legal for anyone to own machine guns in the US. Actually, it still is, with the right paperwork. The NFA just made it more difficult.

Do you have a link that shows this? I'd would be interesting to know how Iranian civilians got hold of Israeli military weapons.

I mistrust them

The latter

Excuse me. I meant AK 47's, not uzis. One gun looks like another to me as I have no direct knowlege of weaponry. And I assume they were obtained through the former Soviet Union.

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And I assume they were obtained through the former Soviet Union.

Or maybe one of the following country's who all produced AK variants (Including Iran) :

Albania

Bulgaria

China

German Democratic Republic

Egypt

Hungary

Iraq

India

Iran

Finland

Nigeria

North Korea

Pakistan

Poland

Romania

Serbia

Sudan

Vietnam

Venezuela

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Excuse me. I meant AK 47's, not uzis. One gun looks like another to me as I have no direct knowlege of weaponry. And I assume they were obtained through the former Soviet Union.

I respect you for your own ideals but you are wrong about many thing's. My rifle, that I obtained legally, is considered an assault weapon by congress but, not by the US Army's standard's. It is perfectly legal to buy and sell assault weapon's to any law abiding citizen as long as you are licensed to do so and you have no history of mental illness or your not a member of a par-military group. There are other thing's on the paper work but I don't have my copy (1985) handy right now.

If you want to own a "fully automatic" machine gun or as it is also referred to as a "repeating rifle" or the less powerful Uzi categorized "sub machine gun", you must be a registered collector and will have to go through a lot of red tape and I believe a well rounded back ground check.

To get a hand gun or a "side arm" you must obtain a permit and have a police back ground check and you have to be 21 years old as well.

I have gone on hunt's with my SKS before but it was used mostly for target shooting, I've not fired it in years and I hope I don't ever have to.

Here is a few link's to check if you wish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

http://www.atf.gov/index.htm

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The locks on my doors and windows are for your safety. Double odd buck. I don't shoot birds.

Have a nice day. ;)

Call first.

Evwithgun.jpg

Hi Ev,

I would prefer to see you with a Guitar in you hand rather than a Gun, but i agree that you should be able to defend yourself in your own home with a weapon of your choice that would make you feel safe and protected.

If someone enters your home to either Rob or Harm you or yours then that person deserves to meet his maker before you do, just my opinion. And i agree 100% with Drunk that "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject." never truer words were spoken on the subject.

Regards, Danny

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Hi Ev,

I would prefer to see you with a Guitar in you hand rather than a Gun, but i agree that you should be able to defend yourself in your own home with a weapon of your choice that would make you feel safe and protected.

If someone enters your home to either Rob or Harm you or yours then that person deserves to meet his maker before you do, just my opinion. And i agree 100% with Drunk that "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject." never truer words were spoken on the subject.

Regards, Danny

Well put, Danny. I have no bloody intention on being just a "subject", or for that matter, an easy target. Just TRY breaking into my home and see what happens.

Can you say SWISS CHEESE, boys and girls?

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Well put, Danny. I have no bloody intention on being just a "subject", or for that matter, an easy target. Just TRY breaking into my home and see what happens.

Can you say SWISS CHEESE, boys and girls?

Thanks 'Rock Action'

People may not be aware that in England we also have the rights to bare arms too, you can own a Rifle or Shotgun as long as they are single shots are locked in a cabinet that is also bolted internaly to a wall or floor joist and you must have the ammunition in a simular seperate cabinet secured in the same way.

I dont think you are allowed to have a loaded gun or rifle in your home and outside the gun cabinet, thus making it imposible to use a gun to defend yourself if you are being burgled, or threatened in your own home, so in reality a gun in the UK is of no use to you as a form or selfdefence. Just remember what happened to Mr Tony Martin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

He was a farmer who had been repeatedly burgled, so he decieded to get a shotgun for protection, when he was burgled again he shot the two intruders while unable to see them due to the darkness but was found guilty of one of the burgulars murders, the other burgular tried to sue Mr Martin for wounding him. Mr Martin was threatened with being killed himself by the family of the burgular he killed, Mr Martin was released on appeal but cannot return to his home for fear of reprisals.

The fact that the Burgulars were habitual thieves and targeted Mr Martins area because of slow Police reaction times and the fact that were Traveller/Gypsy/Thieves types would have no inpact on the Sentence they recieved sickens me.

Here in the UK the Law is more concerned with treating those convicted of crime rightly than getting justice for those who have been the victims, if a burgular stole a million pounds from your home in cash he would only have to serve his sentence, he would not have to repay you back a penny and could keep his stolen fortune as long as the Police couldnt find it.

You cannot own a pistol or either semi or full automatic rifle or handgun, all these had to be given up in new laws made in 1997 by Jack Straw the then Home Secretary.

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Thanks 'Rock Action'

People may not be aware that in England we also have the rights to bare arms too, you can own a Rifle or Shotgun as long as they are single shots are locked in a cabinet that is also bolted internaly to a wall or floor joist and you must have the ammunition in a simular seperate cabinet secured in the same way.

I dont think you are allowed to have a loaded gun or rifle in your home and outside the gun cabinet, thus making it imposible to use a gun to defend yourself if you are being burgled, or threatened in your own home, so in reality a gun in the UK is of no use to you as a form or selfdefence. Just remember what happened to Mr Tony Martin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

He was a farmer who had been repeatedly burgled, so he decieded to get a shotgun for protection, when he was burgled again he shot the two intruders while unable to see them due to the darkness but was found guilty of one of the burgulars murders, the other burgular tried to sue Mr Martin for wounding him. Mr Martin was threatened with being killed himself by the family of the burgular he killed, Mr Martin was released on appeal but cannot return to his home for fear of reprisals.

The fact that the Burgulars were habitual thieves and targeted Mr Martins area because of slow Police reaction times and the fact that were Traveller/Gypsy/Thieves types would have no inpact on the Sentence they recieved sickens me.

Here in the UK the Law is more concerned with treating those convicted of crime rightly than getting justice for those who have been the victims, if a burgular stole a million pounds from your home in cash he would only have to serve his sentence, he would not have to repay you back a penny and could keep his stolen fortune as long as the Police couldnt find it.

You cannot own a pistol or either semi or full automatic rifle or handgun, all these had to be given up in new laws made in 1997 by Jack Straw the then Home Secretary.

So what would the law do if the guy come's out of prison with a bunch of new stuff that he didn't have before and never had the money for in the first place and can not account for how he got the money for it? Can they get him on Tax charge's as they will over here in the state's?

I didn't know about the UK's hand gun law (but I believe you), I didn't think it was ever legal to have a hand gun at all over there (modern time's). I guess you'll have to go to Scandinavia if your a gun freak, do they still have no gun control at all over in that part of the world?

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Civilians with guns are no match for the organized and high-tech military. If they want your guns they will take them but fortunately more people in Congress and the House respect the Constitution than some believe.

Indeed, gun ownership in the devolped world is largely a red herring as far kerbs on the states power goes with the focus upon it leading to far more important abuses of power going unnoticed.

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BTW, I have been around guns, mostly .22 and .303 calibre rifles...

Best line from the film Breaker Morant:

"No; it was not quite so handsome. As to rules and regulations, we had no Red Book, and knew nothing about them. We were out fighting the Boers, not sitting comfortably behind barb-wire entanglements; we got them and shot them under Rule 303." - Lt. Harry 'Breaker' Morant

Guns don't kill people, people kill people I hear you say?

Yes, but it's usually people with guns and knives who kill people.

Are they people? YES

However more specifically those kinds of people are also known as CRIMINALS.

A gun does not just cause a caring sane person to go out and kill somebody. As evidenced by the fact that with so many gun owners in free societies; the overwhelming majority have no criminal intent to do harm to anyone.

How many kids have accidentally killed themselves or others because the parents have left them laying around or they just found them by chance?

And hunting accidents?

Too many.

How many small children have drown in swimming pools? Are you saying we should ban swimming pools because some parents are neglegent?

How many children die of poisioning from prescription drugs or household solvents and such? Should we ban those products because a small number of adults are idiots?

As for "sporting" guns there's nothing brave about shooting defenceless animals and any idiot especially when fitted with telescopic sights, can use one.

In a FREE SOCIETY a person has the choice to fish, hunt or slaughter a turkey for christmas dinner if that is their choice. As long as no laws are broken, who is to say which personal choices for sport are right or wrong?

You are just offering a "feeling" about something. An opinion. I thought that in a FREE SOCIETY those decisions are left up to individuals?

I worked with a couple of blokes who were always on about deer hunting being this great sport and how much fun it was stalking the prey and then the firing "kill" shot.

My response was that it wasn't much of a sport considering the deer couldn't shoot back!

You think cows and chickens have a chance to shoot back? Hunting -- and eating deer is not a crime. For some people it's just another form of protien.

Besides, I don't know if I get your point. Are you saying you are okay with let's say, bear hunting -- as long as the hunter uses a bow and arrow?

Are you against just the guns, or are you also against hunting.... and even fishing I suppose?

Weapons were invented for two reasons, to kill and make money and not necessarily in that order.

Guns are a tool just like a hammer or a saw. You forgot to say that guns also protect people from criminals as well.

Would you have a problem with a cop shooting a crazed man with a sword who had just wounded or killed innocent people? What do you propose the police do in that situation, just talk to the man about their "feelings" of how he is not being a nice guy?

I hate to say it but your sensibilities are overtaking your logic on this issue.

Criminals will always have access to weapons because there will be some scumbag selling them somewhere.

I keep hearing the same old lame logic, for personal defence and hunting.

Paranoia is alive and well and living in the USA with Smith & Wesson, Remington and Colt et al, laughing all the way to the bank.

I expect all the rednecks and homies to fire up and shoot the messenger as is their won't.

Have you ever been confronted by a criminal? Have you ever had a friend or a coworker killed by a criminal? Are you saying that if you had someone break into your home and threaten your family that you wouldn't want one of those .303 Enfieilds ... or at least a .22 to defend your loved ones?

It's not about "paranioa" it's about our constitutional right to defend ourselves with legal firearms. I have stared down the barrel of criminal's gun. I have had people shoot at me. I own guns because it makes good sense to have that "option" along with calling the police or just staying out of situations where one might be put at risk. But let me tell you, sometimes none of that goes your way, and sometimes it's nice to have a backup.

Last year (some people may have read this in the news) a man broke into the home of young woman who I happen to know who lived by herself in the Hollywood area. The man who broke in had a knife and he proceded to attack this innocent woman with the intention of killing her. However, she fought back and ended up cutting him with his own knife (after receiving many horrible cuts to herself as well) before the man fled the scene. Later, and based on the blood/DNA evidence left by the attacker at the crime scene; the police were able to make an arrest of the suspet. This case is still in progress, but investigators around the country have been able to track this man to many murders going back 20 years just based on the DNA. One of the murdered victims was the ex-girlfriend of actor Ashton Kutcher.

So are you telling me that people should not have the RIGHT to guns for personal protection? The story I told you has nothing to do with dear hunting, rednecks or "homies". It has to do with life and death. And only by luck and pure will to survive did this young woman not become another victim of a serial killer (one who did not use a gun either btw).

I say that the woman had a good reason to own a gun before this happened. She had a good reason to use a gun when it happened. And I certainly hope she has a gun now, to help her or anyone else in case it does happen again.

We have gun control laws and they are working fine here.

Good for you. And as an American I don't care what you do or don't do in your country. Although I'm pretty sure that the violent crime rate did increase when you all decided to turn in your guns. But I really don't care one way or the other. It's not my business, I don't live where you do.

If you can prove you have a genuine need you can get a licence.

I don't need to get a licence, I have a right.

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Not in this ole boy's house thank you!

117877c9.jpg

You're going to snipe the intruder at 10 paces? :lol:;)

I can just see it now. It's 2:30 am. You and the missus are snug in the bed. You hear a lamp fall over in the living room. You slowly reach for your HH, which is leaning in the corner beside the bed (because that's where you keep it). You quietly deploy the legs, and take position at foot of the bed, admonishing your wife for unsteadying you. In the back of your mind you regret not buying that Temperpedic mattress. Visions of girls dancing on the mattress and unspilt wineglasses go through your mind. Willing yourself out of this reverie, you methodically uncap the sights, secure in the knowledge you can take the eye out of a hummingbird at 900 yards. Suddenly it occurs to you that your apartment is 900 square feet. Then the intruder is there! He's in the room! As you adjust your sights for close range, your wife clocks the fucker with the Louisville Slugger she keeps leaning by her side of the bed! Proudly you clasp her shoulder, secure in the knowkedge that if the bastard ever gets out of jail, you'll be able to take him out as he rounds the corner by the stop sign at the end of the block! :hysterical:

Aw come on! That's fucken funny right there!

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You're going to snipe the intruder at 10 paces? :lol:;)

I can just see it now. It's 2:30 am. You and the missus are snug in the bed. You hear a lamp fall over in the living room. You slowly reach for your HH, which is leaning in the corner beside the bed (because that's where you keep it). You quietly deploy the legs, and take position at foot of the bed, admonishing your wife for unsteadying you. In the back of your mind you regret not buying that Temperpedic mattress. Visions of girls dancing on the mattress and unspilt wineglasses go through your mind. Willing yourself out of this reverie, you methodically uncap the sights, secure in the knowledge you can take the eye out of a hummingbird at 900 yards. Suddenly it occurs to you that your apartment is 900 square feet. Then the intruder is there! He's in the room! As you adjust your sights for close range, your wife clocks the fucker with the Louisville Slugger she keeps leaning by her side of the bed! Proudly you clasp her shoulder, secure in the knowkedge that if the bastard ever gets out of jail, you'll be able to take him out as he rounds the corner by the stop sign at the end of the block! :hysterical:

Aw come on! That's fucken funny right there!

:hysterical:

But really "shotgun" Evster; the idea is to have a an arsenal of weopens at your disposal. Some for the 300 yard kill zone to your property line (I actually prefer 1000 yards -- good for helicopters too btw). Some for the alley sweeping effect from your 12 guage pump (when shooting one homie at a time is not enough). Some for close quarter combat like a good old .45 ACP (great in a dark bedroom or a jungle trench). Some for use from the fourth floor of a school book depos .... wait, I shouldn't say that out loud I suppose.

...And some like the good old pine tarred Louiseville slugger.

.... or some like my foot in a guys ass pissing me off in the line at the supermarket.

Using the right tool for the job is a not so subtle art my friend.

Like the right wine to add to a French sauce. :D

.

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You're going to snipe the intruder at 10 paces? :lol:;)

I can just see it now. It's 2:30 am. You and the missus are snug in the bed. You hear a lamp fall over in the living room. You slowly reach for your HH, which is leaning in the corner beside the bed (because that's where you keep it). You quietly deploy the legs, and take position at foot of the bed, admonishing your wife for unsteadying you. In the back of your mind you regret not buying that Temperpedic mattress. Visions of girls dancing on the mattress and unspilt wineglasses go through your mind. Willing yourself out of this reverie, you methodically uncap the sights, secure in the knowledge you can take the eye out of a hummingbird at 900 yards. Suddenly it occurs to you that your apartment is 900 square feet. Then the intruder is there! He's in the room! As you adjust your sights for close range, your wife clocks the fucker with the Louisville Slugger she keeps leaning by her side of the bed! Proudly you clasp her shoulder, secure in the knowkedge that if the bastard ever gets out of jail, you'll be able to take him out as he rounds the corner by the stop sign at the end of the block! :hysterical:

Aw come on! That's fucken funny right there!

Hilarious!! Could have been a King of Queens episode!

Carrie: You bought a gun??

Doug: Carrie, it's a jungle out there.

Carrie: I'm not sleeping in this bed with that THING in the room.

Yada Yada, hilarity ensues...

Doug trades in gun for gas grill.

Carrie: Now that's more like it baby.

Doug: Yeah. I love too you honey. I figure if I modify the valve I can use it as a grenade, and lob it at the guy before he gets past the couch!

Sorry, I just made that up!

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Hilarious!! Could have been a King of Queens episode!

Carrie: You bought a gun??

Doug: Carrie, it's a jungle out there.

Carrie: I'm not sleeping in this bed with that THING in the room.

Yada Yada, hilarity ensues...

Doug trades in gun for gas grill.

Carrie: Now that's more like it baby.

Doug: Yeah. I love too you honey. I figure if I modify the valve I can use it as a grenade, and lob it at the guy before he gets past the couch!

Sorry, I just made that up!

Weird man! I'm actually watching King of Queens right now!! :hysterical:

I can totally see that happening on the show! :thumbsup:

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Weird man! I'm actually watching King of Queens right now!! :hysterical:

I can totally see that happening on the show! :thumbsup:

Me too bro! That's what inspired it. The wife is watching it and I was reading your post, so it just came together in a complex weave of life and a lack thereof!

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You're going to snipe the intruder at 10 paces? :lol:;)

I can just see it now. It's 2:30 am. You and the missus are snug in the bed. You hear a lamp fall over in the living room. You slowly reach for your HH, which is leaning in the corner beside the bed (because that's where you keep it). You quietly deploy the legs, and take position at foot of the bed, admonishing your wife for unsteadying you. In the back of your mind you regret not buying that Temperpedic mattress. Visions of girls dancing on the mattress and unspilt wineglasses go through your mind. Willing yourself out of this reverie, you methodically uncap the sights, secure in the knowledge you can take the eye out of a hummingbird at 900 yards. Suddenly it occurs to you that your apartment is 900 square feet. Then the intruder is there! He's in the room! As you adjust your sights for close range, your wife clocks the fucker with the Louisville Slugger she keeps leaning by her side of the bed! Proudly you clasp her shoulder, secure in the knowkedge that if the bastard ever gets out of jail, you'll be able to take him out as he rounds the corner by the stop sign at the end of the block! :hysterical:

Aw come on! That's fucken funny right there!

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This how I see it ...The Louiseville Slugger keeps the intruder at bay, a little punch drunk. Then Dzldoc engages the prick in a game of ping pong, to ease the tension slightly. Dzldoc purposely lets the intruder win a close match, and tells him there are parting gifts. Dzldoc then cuts in half the scumbag that interupted his peaceful night of sleep.

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