Alcoholism

[Atlas]

I recently became involved in a genuine fool's errand. I know a woman who has been in treatment for a long time for alcoholism and other psychological/emotional disorders. I noticed that just about everybody has written her off as a hopeless case. I happen to see a great deal of worth in the woman. She has multiple under graduate degrees from a major university, did a significant amount of graduate work, and has held several significant positions in government and private sector .

Now, for those who know much about me, this may blow your minds. I have managed to let this crazy-assed Jamaican woman put a death grip on my heart. That is really irrelevant to the issue at hand, it just seems worth mentioning.

Currently she drinks about a gallon of vodka every three days - give or take. Her health is deteriorating rapidly. This morning she was puking blood, and she appears to be loosing weight very rapidly.

Part of the reason I mention this issue here is because she claims to have spent some part of her life as a rock groupie. I assume that means the sexual part of it. She loves classic rock, and knows all the great songs. She really is a mind-blowing, awesome babe in many ways. She's also completely AFU.

It appears to me that she has been used and abused so much in her life that she completely lost her ability to believe in a "healthy" man-woman relationship.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

PS: yes I know better, but that doesn't stop me.

[BIGDAN]

I recently became involved in a genuine fool's errand. I know a woman who has been in treatment for a long time for alcoholism and other psychological/emotional disorders. I noticed that just about everybody has written her off as a hopeless case. I happen to see a great deal of worth in the woman. She has multiple under graduate degrees from a major university, did a significant amount of graduate work, and has held several significant positions in government and private sector .

Now, for those who know much about me, this may blow your minds. I have managed to let this crazy-assed Jamaican woman put a death grip on my heart. That is really irrelevant to the issue at hand, it just seems worth mentioning.

Currently she drinks about a gallon of vodka every three days - give or take. Her health is deteriorating rapidly. This morning she was puking blood, and she appears to be loosing weight very rapidly.

Part of the reason I mention this issue here is because she claims to have spent some part of her life as a rock groupie. I assume that means the sexual part of it. She loves classic rock, and knows all the great songs. She really is a mind-blowing, awesome babe in many ways. She's also completely AFU.

It appears to me that she has been used and abused so much in her life that she completely lost her ability to believe in a "healthy" man-woman relationship.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

PS: yes I know better, but that doesn't stop me.

Hi Atlas,

How do ypu want it?

You want us to fcuk around with you about the issue or you want the truth, and believe me you wont like the truth, so how about it? which way do you want it?

Regards, Danny

[DRUNK08]

Yeah, I got some advice for you: RUN!!!!!!

Cut it off, right the fuck now.

Sometimes people are brought into our lives (or we bring them into our lives) to teach us certain things. The question you need to ask yourself, is why you are with this woman.

[2bitnogoodjive]

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/aa100897.htm

Good luck!

[jabe]

Atlas!!! If she is throwing up blood take her immediately to the best facilities to which you have access. Don't hesitate. Do whatever it takes. Do Not Wait!

+

[Cactus]

If she's vomiting blood and losing weight, she needs it be in hospital NOW. She may have only a matter of hours or days to live.

She needs immediate medical attention, followed by a supervised detox and a lengthy inpatient rehab stay. Otherwise she will die.

Addiction is a long, hard road, and it affects those around the addict as much as the addict themselves. It's such a multi-layered issue, you have to deal with the addict's immediate issues, withdrawl, then move on to breaking bad habits, getting into the deeper issues around the person's need to use alcohol, which could take them back to childhood trauma, or any number of issues. Then they need to slowly move back into society safely, and prevent relapse.

The point is, it's a massive problem, and you cannot handle it on your own. Get professional help.

[redrum]

Every day on the radio I hear the ad for Schick-Shadle in Seattle and they proclaim to get people off booze in 10 days. I would hope she can get cured.

Alcohol is the curse on mankind.

[Del Zeppnile]

Like someone else said " run don't walk!"

If she doesn't love herself she can never love you. And you can't fix her --- that she has to do.

But being her friend is okay.

[~tangerine~]

If she will let you help her, then i would. But you mentioned in another thread she "vanished". As for a relationship with her, i would say you are best not getting involved. You will only be hurt. If she ever gets treatment and can remain sober for a good length of time, maybe.

By what you said about her physical condition, she needs to be hospitalized. Sounds like Liver Failure, maybe even end stage. She needs medical treatment immediately. Very sad situation and not the right time for you to be pursuing a love affair with her. She sounds very sick and could even be dying. I'm going by the very few facts you have provided.

[Lake of Shadows]

Ok Het, I'll stick my neck out and reply... I really hope this isn't one of your usual approaches to whatever is on your mind. I'm also not trying to be mean... even if that sounded like it.

Anyway...

As others have mentioned, she needs medical attention NOW if she's vomiting blood. It certainly sounds like she's got some alcohol-related, serious health issues that need to be dealt with, and dealt with now. She needs that, even if she doesn't want treatment/detox, etc. Once the immediate, potentially life-threatening things are under control, or are at least improved and being dealt with, she needs to get into some kind of rehab treatment program. The question is whether or not she wants that or is at least willing to give it a shot (so to speak).

Some people need some help figuring out and accepting the fact that they need help... whether it's an "intervention", suggestions from friends/family, court-ordered, etc.

Some people relapse before they stay on track in a recovery program. Relapse isn't a requirement, but it does happen with some people, sometimes repeatedly.

You can't make her stay sober, no matter how much you want to. You can't do this for her, although there are things you or others can do to help. She has to do it, even though she can't do it alone.

Likewise, you will need to take care of you. There are different places and sources of information you might want to check out, and many of them have websites with information or can direct you to where that information is. Try Al-Anon, for starters. You can also check out stuff on AA, or read up on some various recovery programs, or maybe even one of the hotline numbers... I'm sure there's at least one in your general area.

It's great that you want to help... just please know that you may not be able to do so... and sometimes one has to step back and let the person fall and hit bottom. Just please take care of yourself as well.

(That's about as far as I wanna go on a public forum, but you can PM me if you wish...)

Take care, Het... and I mean that.

[lzfan715]

You can make her healthy by snapping your fingers, it doesn't work that way. IMO, you should offer her help and just be around for her in case she needs somehting. If she quits drinking, be with her when she feels like she is going through a withdrawl. You may want to try talking to her about the problem when she is sober, if she ever is.

[ally]

No need to comment on the need for hospital care for the bleeding

Not trying to be nasty when I say this but I think you really have to look deep within and ask yourself if you are fully prepared to go the distance that will be required after her detox. You will not be doing her or yourself any favours if you have any doubts and / or are confusing sympathy for love. I'm not suggesting that you cannot be of help to her but you must be honest with yourself

about why and be prepared to accept that during and after her recovery, you may be the odd man out. Let me put it this way, helping her out should be viewed as an act of kindness and friendship but you cannot expect her to be obligated to you because you led her in the right direction. I'm not suggesting that you think she would be only that you be honest with yourself for both of your sakes

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

If she's vomiting blood and losing weight, she needs it be in hospital NOW. She may have only a matter of hours or days to live.

She needs immediate medical attention, followed by a supervised detox and a lengthy inpatient rehab stay. Otherwise she will die.

Addiction is a long, hard road, and it affects those around the addict as much as the addict themselves. It's such a multi-layered issue, you have to deal with the addict's immediate issues, withdrawl, then move on to breaking bad habits, getting into the deeper issues around the person's need to use alcohol, which could take them back to childhood trauma, or any number of issues. Then they need to slowly move back into society safely, and prevent relapse.

The point is, it's a massive problem, and you cannot handle it on your own. Get professional help.

Well said Cactus!!! I am a fully recovered over-drinker myself so, I can say that it will take more than one try to stop. I stopped once back in the late 1990's for a few month's and then went right back to it, I have been completely sober now for two years. I was also a pot smoker to, been off that for about 2 1/2 years now, and had tried to quit that many time's, I quit smoking cigg's at about the same time I stopped drinking.

It was easy at first but I had a few random light relapses and there was a few time's I thought I was going insane! But I did make it out alive and I'm happy about the change I made in my life. I had to change the people I was hanging with and I do some time's have dream's about doing the party thing again but when I wake up I just tell myself, "it was all just a dream" and I feel better.

I was a 20+ year drinker pretty much every day and I liked putting down a good ale or dark beer over a mixed drink but if it was there I would do it. Pot smoking was an on or off habit if I or anyone I was around had it I/we would smoke it till it was gone.

[Cactus]

I do some time's have dream's about doing the party thing again but when I wake up I just tell myself, "it was all just a dream" and I feel better.

Tell me about it. More like a nightmare, you wake up sweaty and tense. It's all part of the process.

[lzfan715]

Well said Cactus!!! I am a fully recovered over-drinker myself so, I can say that it will take more than one try to stop. I stopped once back in the late 1990's for a few month's and then went right back to it, I have been completely sober now for two years. I was also a pot smoker to, been off that for about 2 1/2 years now, and had tried to quit that many time's, I quit smoking cigg's at about the same time I stopped drinking.

It was easy at first but I had a few random light relapses and there was a few time's I thought I was going insane! But I did make it out alive and I'm happy about the change I made in my life. I had to change the people I was hanging with and I do some time's have dream's about doing the party thing again but when I wake up I just tell myself, "it was all just a dream" and I feel better.

I was a 20+ year drinker pretty much every day and I liked putting down a good ale or dark beer over a mixed drink but if it was there I would do it. Pot smoking was an on or off habit if I or anyone I was around had it I/we would smoke it till it was gone.

Congrats! I'm glad that you made such changes in your life. I'm sure that you have touched other peoples lives by making that change, whether you know it or not.

[Katuschka]

If she doesn't love herself she can never love you.

This is total bullshit!

The woman obviously needs help, not another dagger in the back.

[BIGDAN]

This is total bullshit!

The woman obviously needs help, not another dagger in the back.

Hi Katuschka,

"The woman obviously needs help" goes without saying does that, but untill she realises that she needs help there is nothing anyone can do to help her.

By hanging around hoping that he can change her in to the Woman of his desire, Atlas is in fact enabling her and encouraging her to remain an Alcoholic, and at 2 bottles of Vodka a day it wont be long before she is dead due to either alcohol poisoning or some other related disease or contributing factor.

Until she reaches rock bottom there seems to be no reason to her as to why she should stop drinking, if she really wants the help she is being offered, "and i assume that after the "puking blood" episode she has seen a doctor" then it is up to her to take it, if she is vomiting blood as an Alcoholics then she probably has a burst stomach ulcer, untreated this alone can kill her.

My bit of advice would be this, if she wont take the help she needs then leave her alone in the Black Hole she has created for herself, if you stay around you will be helping her to kill herself and the distress that will inevitably cause you will not be worth it in the end, and dont go down the same road as she has gone down.

Alcoholics, Gamblers and Drug Addicts will all Leach of off you in the end, better to give them a wide berth and avoid them altogether in my opinion, as you have guessed, i've been there, and got the T shirt.

Regards, Danny

[Katuschka]

Hi Katuschka,

"The woman obviously needs help" goes without saying does that, but untill she realises that she needs help there is nothing anyone can do to help her.

Fair enough,

I just know from my own experience that sometimes people need someone else's help to be able to realize it. (Although in that case, it wasn't alcohol.)

I realize that addiction makes it even harder, so maybe I'm not the right person to bother anyone with my 'wisdom' here. I just don't think that running is the best option either.

"If she doesn't love herself she can never love you" is still total bullshit.

[BIGDAN]

Fair enough,

I just know from my own experience that sometimes people need someone else's help to be able to realize it. (Although in that case, it wasn't alcohol.)

I realize that addiction makes it even harder, so maybe I'm not the right person to bother anyone with my 'wisdom' here. I just don't think that running is the best option either.

"If she doesn't love herself she can never love you" is still total bullshit.

Hi Katuschka,

Please dont think that, we all have our opinions, sometimes, well all times really, we need to have a more rounded approach and your "Wisdom" and experiences are just as valid and important as anyone elses, dont sell yourself short because you are a young person, your opinion is just as valid and welcome as anybodys.

"Running" might be a better option for Atlas than staying with someone that will lean very heavily on him rather that face up to the fact that she needs profesional help, thus making her position and health worse and ultimately having an adverse effect on Atlas himself. Those "Mighty arms of Atlas" might not be enough to keep the "Heavens" from crashing down on the pair of them.

The rest of your post i totally agree with.

Regards, Danny

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

Tell me about it. More like a nightmare, you wake up sweaty and tense. It's all part of the process.

I still don't sleep as I should so it's more like, I'm waking up and thinking .... Oh no, am I going back to doing drug's and drinking? And then I wake up and realize it was just a dream and feel better so I can get back to sleep or get up and start the day. It was like the way you where talking about after I had dried out for a month or so for me, it was unexplainable, I was doing thing's like I was mentally retarded (or more so than I actually am) or some thing. I still can't believe some of the thing's that happened but, it's good I did get it done before I did some thing I would regret. Or worse did some real damage to my self or some one else! I think I'm lucky to have so much patience and have a strong resilient nature about me, that was the only way I think I made it in one piece. And of course most of the people around me where quite forgiving to so I have them to thank to.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

Congrats! I'm glad that you made such changes in your life. I'm sure that you have touched other peoples lives by making that change, whether you know it or not.

Thank's lzfan715, I hope that the young(er) crowd will take mine and others like mine's life reflection's realistically enough to think about the danger's of anything that alters your mental capacities. I know what it's like to be young and to want to find out about everything that there is to experience but some thing's are not to be taken lightly.

I wouldn't want to sit a teenager down and lecture him/her on how you can die from an overdose of any drug because, I've been a teenager myself and know how un-cool my parent's (and most other adult's) where when I was at that age and I didn't want to be like them at all. So I just have to hope that my son (even if he's to old for me to worry about now) will take care of his family better than I did of mine. He has been responsible with his wife and is very protective over his little girl (my granddaughter) so I give him high marks, so I think I can sleep well over that part of my contribution to mankind at least.

[Cactus]

I still don't sleep as I should so it's more like, I'm waking up and thinking .... Oh no, am I going back to doing drug's and drinking? And then I wake up and realize it was just a dream and feel better so I can get back to sleep or get up and start the day.

I know EXACTLY what you mean. It's terrifying until you realise it's just a dream. I guess it's your subconscious trying to convince itself that you've made the right choice to quit?

[eternal light]

She needs medical care right away. As someone said she could be dying, and possibly soon.

And she might never get well.

Loving a dying person is not always the easiest thing to do. I would expect this to be a caretaker relationship, or possibly a mutually destructive one if you were to engage in her destructive behaviour with her. So you need to watch yourself. Being the rescuer sometimes means that you are only putting yourself at risk. She may not want to be rescued, and her days may be short no matter what you do.

If you happen to find professional help, I would consider their advice very carefully.

[ally]

She needs medical care right away. As someone said she could be dying, and possibly soon.

And she might never get well.

Loving a dying person is not always the easiest thing to do. I would expect this to be a caretaker relationship, or possibly a mutually destructive one if you were to engage in her destructive behaviour with her. So you need to watch yourself. Being the rescuer sometimes means that you are only putting yourself at risk. She may not want to be rescued, and her days may be short no matter what you do.

If you happen to find professional help, I would consider their advice very carefully.

[danelectro]

Throwing up blood? Blood from stomach is brown and looks like coffee grounds. Blood from the throat is red, like when you cut your finger. There is a huge difference in the severity of the problem.