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Strider

What happened to Genuine Masters?

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A few years back, I started noticing this new label popping up at the record swap meet I go to where I buy most of my Zeppelin live swag: Genuine Masters.

They seemed to put out mostly DVD-Audio discs and after consulting the Underground Uprising site and seeing how highly rated their releases were, I started picking up a few of them.

"Texas Pop", "Watch and Listen to this, Eddie", "For Badgeholders Only", "The Rover's Return".

These all sounded great and often had fun visuals to match.

Lately though I've noticed that I haven't seen any new Genuine Masters releases and after asking one of the vendors about it, I received a very cryptic reply...something about the Japanese hating them and driving them out of business.

Was wondering if there was anyone(calling SteveA.Jones?) here who could objectively tell me what the deal is...are they out of the boot business?

If so, that would be a shame as on the whole, I was always pleased with their work; unlike Godfatherecords, Empress Valley, Beezlebub, TDOLZ, and a whole host of others, I was never dissapointed with a Genuine Masters boot.

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I don't know exactly, but by the looks of it, it was really sudden, still, the label gave out some huge upgrades but it mostly was hit-n-miss.

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I don't know exactly why they closed their doors, but ther recent Genuine Masters release of the Zep O2 gig was touted as that label's final release. The maain protagonist behind GM has been responsible for work on a number of different labels (including Immigrant)...

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You shouldn't be buying bootlegs unless you have the intent of freely sharing those releases, It's said to be immoral.

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You shouldn't be buying bootlegs unless you have the intent of freely sharing those releases, It's said to be immoral.

So I should buy so others can have free ? That sounds an awful lot like 'musical socialism'. Where's the anti-Obama crowd when you need them ? :huh:

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You shouldn't be buying bootlegs unless you have the intent of freely sharing those releases, It's said to be immoral.

The amusing thing is that you know a sizeble about of the DLers who carp on about how moral they are by getting something for nothing also illegally DLed the offical releases.

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You shouldn't be buying bootlegs unless you have the intent of freely sharing those releases, It's said to be immoral.

I'm not sure what you're on about.

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I'm not sure what you're on about.

It's just a morality thing, many traders feel immoral to buy bootlegs unless it's an unique offer, upgrade etc. Probably because it's legal to share but not sell these recordings (then again we can discuss the legality of bootlegs for a looooooonnnnnnngggggg time). Also a lot of tapers aren't happy that people make money out of their tapes, and that is right, but who can blame certain tapers for not watching over their tapes.

But in the end, it's a thing of personal taste.

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Well, I don't download any music, offiical releases or live boots, at all. For one thing, I have just basic computer capacity to begin with...so I can't download anything even if I wanted to.

But, from what I've heard from friends' mp3 files and whatnot, I don't like the sound quality from dowloads anyway. I would rather have a show on vinyl or cd or cassette.

Plus, the couple times in the past I've searched through someone's file-sharing site, I found many shows mislabeled with wrong dates, venues, song titles, etc.

And one time when I did a trade with someone, I got a cd with clicking sounds throughout and those annoying 2-3 second pauses between tracks; which is fine for a studio cd, but it absolutely ruins a live recording for me when the cd pauses and cuts off the opening seconds of the next track.

So I am sorry if it offends your moral compass, but I don't mind paying $5-30 for a live concert recording that I can preview at the swap meet to check out the sound quality and make sure the show is what the label says it is; plus you get some cool art work and photos in the bargain.

If I had someone to trade with I would, but I lost track of the guy I used to trade with back in the old days, and haven't been able to find anyone that was competent and trustworthy in the interim.

All of the bands that I collect live shows of(Zep, Stones, Floyd, Radiohead, Cure, Wilco, Bruce...) are bands that I already own ALL of their official releases, some many times over. So it is not like the band is losing money...I've given more than my share of money to them over the years.

Most of these shows are never going to be released, and if they are, even if I already have a boot of the show, I dutifully go out and buy the official release...i.e. "How the West Was Won".

Edited by Strider

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You shouldn't be buying bootlegs unless you have the intent of freely sharing those releases, It's said to be immoral.

:munchies:

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You shouldn't be buying bootlegs unless you have the intent of freely sharing those releases, It's said to be immoral.

Ok...thanks, Dad! ;)

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Well, I don't download any music, offiical releases or live boots, at all. For one thing, I have just basic computer capacity to begin with...so I can't download anything even if I wanted to.

But, from what I've heard from friends' mp3 files and whatnot, I don't like the sound quality from dowloads anyway. I would rather have a show on vinyl or cd or cassette.

Plus, the couple times in the past I've searched through someone's file-sharing site, I found many shows mislabeled with wrong dates, venues, song titles, etc.

And one time when I did a trade with someone, I got a cd with clicking sounds throughout and those annoying 2-3 second pauses between tracks; which is fine for a studio cd, but it absolutely ruins a live recording for me when the cd pauses and cuts off the opening seconds of the next track.

So I am sorry if it offends your moral compass, but I don't mind paying $5-30 for a live concert recording that I can preview at the swap meet to check out the sound quality and make sure the show is what the label says it is; plus you get some cool art work and photos in the bargain.

If I had someone to trade with I would, but I lost track of the guy I used to trade with back in the old days, and haven't been able to find anyone that was competent and trustworthy in the interim.

All of the bands that I collect live shows of(Zep, Stones, Floyd, Radiohead, Cure, Wilco, Bruce...) are bands that I already own ALL of their official releases, some many times over. So it is not like the band is losing money...I've given more than my share of money to them over the years.

Most of these shows are never going to be released, and if they are, even if I already have a boot of the show, I dutifully go out and buy the official release...i.e. "How the West Was Won".

I agree with you that buying those shows doesn't really affect the band, the "inmoral" thing probably comes from labels selling the tapes and making money out of them without the taper's consent, which is certainly the case for many tapers (Freezer, Mike Millard etc), whilst others have the opposite function, tape to make money (like Ken & Dub from old TMOQ).

Now, I don't agree with you on what you said about getting shows on the internet, there are many live music sites which are excellent, I can say, that a lot of things that come out of those sites are excellent, and in a lot of cases, a lot better than bootlegs, besides, how many traders would prefer a bootleg over a low-gen recording?, besides, the sound quality is absolutely fantastic taking that the files are compressed losslessly with formats such as Flac, Ape, etc. The `thing is, you just gotta open your eyes to the 21st century way of doing it.

And finally, from UU, something that we might find interesting regarding this thread:

1. Any release from Genuine Masters. From “Pb” to “Knebworth Celebration, " GM again constantly released excellent DVD-A titles until it was unexpectedly compelled to cease its activities in the middle of the year. In my assessment, so long as GM is given an opportunity to work on a tape, the quality of audio of the DVD-A title produced by the label from the tape has never been surpassed by anyone else in its range, depth and dynamism. Hence, I could not help but again list all of their titles on top of all other releases! I especially love their latest release "Knebworth Celebration " which stands as the best-ever sounding version of the now revaluated first Knebworth show. I truly hope that in 2007 GM will return to the scene, as they have recently announced.

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Probably because it's legal to share but not sell these recordings (then again we can discuss the legality of bootlegs for a looooooonnnnnnngggggg time).

Your entire argument is based on a false premise. It is just as illegal to download an unauthorized recording for your own purposes or sharing, as it is to download and copy for your own profit. What is illegal and what is illegal and worthy of enforcement are two different beasts.

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Anyone had any experience with GM's Listen To this eddie release?

(can't find Winston's release)

Unless someone can PM me (non torrent) <_<

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Your entire argument is based on a false premise. It is just as illegal to download an unauthorized recording for your own purposes or sharing, as it is to download and copy for your own profit. What is illegal and what is illegal and worthy of enforcement are two different beasts.

Your always more likely to get into trouble if your trying to profit from it but spreading a recording for DL is almost certainly more illegal than buying one for personal use.

I would say this though, if you DL sources that originate from boots(and most new sources still do) then you really shouldnt look down on boot buyers. Even if they werent the ones who put a copy up for DL its ultimately the money they spent that unlocked the new source.

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Your always more likely to get into trouble if your trying to profit from it but spreading a recording for DL is almost certainly more illegal than buying one for personal use.

I would say this though, if you DL sources that originate from boots(and most new sources still do) then you really shouldnt look down on boot buyers. Even if they werent the ones who put a copy up for DL its ultimately the money they spent that unlocked the new source.

I wasn't looking down on anyone....just stating the legal facts. I download just as willingly as the next guy, and appreciate the efforts of others when it comes to sharing the goods.

There are other ways to get busted....like when your IT dept. sees you pushing out 5 gig to the World at midnight. :slapface:

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A few years back, I started noticing this new label popping up at the record swap meet I go to where I buy most of my Zeppelin live swag: Genuine Masters.

They seemed to put out mostly DVD-Audio discs and after consulting the Underground Uprising site and seeing how highly rated their releases were, I started picking up a few of them.

"Texas Pop", "Watch and Listen to this, Eddie", "For Badgeholders Only", "The Rover's Return".

These all sounded great and often had fun visuals to match.

Lately though I've noticed that I haven't seen any new Genuine Masters releases and after asking one of the vendors about it, I received a very cryptic reply...something about the Japanese hating them and driving them out of business.

Was wondering if there was anyone(calling SteveA.Jones?) here who could objectively tell me what the deal is...are they out of the boot business?

If so, that would be a shame as on the whole, I was always pleased with their work; unlike Godfatherecords, Empress Valley, Beezlebub, TDOLZ, and a whole host of others, I was never dissapointed with a Genuine Masters boot.

I dunno what happened to them, but all of the GM boots were just re-equalized copies of other bootlegs. Just like Godfathers and Beelzebub are now. But the problem with GM stuff is that they were all on cd-rs and dvd-rs, which they sold for $60-$80, or thereabouts. So, a remastered copy is one thing, but paying out the ears for a remastered cd-r of boots that were already out there is kind of silly I thought.

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^

...and there were sometimes issues, particularly with the CD-Rs.

I liked some of the Genuine Masters releases, but really wished they could have found a way to release them on pressed discs.

Edited by One Symbol

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I don't know where you are getting your $60 figure, as I never paid more than $25 for my Genuine Master boots, and usually it was around $15 to $20, depending on if it was a single or double disc.

And okay, maybe they were just re-EQ'ed from exisiting tapes, but compared to the EQ travesties I have heard from Tarantura, Empress Valley and other companies, GM always sounded way better than the other boots and the original tapes even. They had a warmth and presence and depth that made it easy to listen to at high volume without getting ear fatigue.

Just because you have the ability to digitally alter or EQ a tape doesn't mean you know what the hell you are doing. GM's Black Dog seemed to be one of the rare few who did.

And from what I have heard from other fans(not having had the chance to listen for myself yet), this Winston Remasters guy also seems to know.

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Boots are getting redundant with the web - and just as well too. They're legal in Tokyo though, where I've been to buy lots of boots. I think paying for packaging at such prices and paying for re-releases is dumb. DVD-Rs don't last a long time either. The coating of the disc wears off!

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Boots are getting redundant with the web - and just as well too. They're legal in Tokyo though, where I've been to buy lots of boots. I think paying for packaging at such prices and paying for re-releases is dumb. DVD-Rs don't last a long time either. The coating of the disc wears off!

If people didnt still buy boots the chances are we'd not have heard the recent 75 SB's or many other sources. Thats my point from earlier in the thread, if you think its ok to buy a boot if you put it up for DL then just buying one must also be ok since its the dozens/hundreds of people who do that provide the money to buy new sources.

While GM did do a good job on the releases I'v heard there does seem to be a bit of hypocrasy in how much praise they got for rereleasing old sources compaired to the japanese labels(who while they do often arse things up also often make improvement). Both are/were ultimately bootleggers making money off Zep afterall, the difference to me seemed to be that the guy behind GM had a western face/voice and released stuff on CDR.

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