Revolution?

[Evster2012]

I believe that most Americans would rather have a very conservative government fiscally but have a very liberal life style. Not in a way where there's anarchy type liberal, but a life style where they can live how they want to live. People don't need government to run their lives.

Now that's a policy I'd vote for! Where do I sign up?

[BIGDAN]

"You want to know how to get peace, love and understanding?" he replies. "Who doesn't know this? The Ku-Klux-Klan? The Black Panthers? Child rapists? How do you get peace, love and understanding? First of all you have to find all the bad people. Then," Nugent adds, "you kill them."

And that includes you too Ted.

Regards, Danny the Bear.

[ZPN]

Well no shit employers are predators. We knew that already. And so are politicians.

One thing I love (or hate) about the Conservatives getting their knickers in a twist over this is the irony is that they are essentially telling the government to stay out of the way of employers screwing them over.

Fine. If you fuckers wanna lose your jobs because your employer has decided that your job would be better suited overseas because (s)he won't have to pay as much, and you want your health insurance to cut you when you get sick, then have fun... have fun over there in "Real America".

Personally, I'd like to stay here in "Fake America" where I can get a job and will have health care no matter what. To me, that just makes more fuckin' sense.

You know... common sense... what these vocal, fantical dumb-asses seem to seriously lack.

Yes, they are getting exactly what they deserve, and what they want (why the hell they want it is beyond me). But unfortunately the rest of us are paying for their ignorance by losing our jobs, earning so little that we can't make ends meet, having no medical benefits or crappy benefits where they exclude and bill you to death (literally) and so on. Even though they are dumbassess, I want them and their kids and grandkids and nieces and nephews and parents and grandparents and aunts and uncles and neighbors to have something better, whether they're smart enough to want that themselves or not.

Someone mentioned in another post that it's the well educated who are making these decisions.

Maybe some of them are, but many of us who are at the bottom are well educated too.

The corporate people count on a lot of ignorant people bending over and begging to be screwed.

Here's something from today's Huffington Post:

Income inequality in the United States is at an all-time high, surpassing even levels seen during the Great Depression, according to a recently updated paper by University of California, Berkeley Professor Emmanuel Saez. The paper, which covers data through 2007, points to a staggering, unprecedented disparity in American incomes. On his blog, Nobel prize-winning economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman called the numbers "truly amazing." Though income inequality has been growing for some time, the paper paints a stark, disturbing portrait of wealth distribution in America. Saez calculates that in 2007 the top .01 percent of American earners took home 6 percent of total U.S. wages, a figure that has nearly doubled since 2000. As of 2007, the top decile of American earners, Saez writes, pulled in 49.7 percent of total wages, a level that's "higher than any other year since 1917 and even surpasses 1928, the peak of stock market bubble in the 'roaring" 1920s.'"Beginning in the economic expansion of the early 1990s, Saez argues, the economy began to favor the top tiers American earners, but much of the country missed was left behind. "The top 1 percent incomes captured half of the overall economic growth over the period 1993-2007," Saes writes. Despite a rising stock market, largely growing employment and a historic housing boom things were not nearly so rosy for the rest of U.S. workers. This trend, according to Saez, only accelerated during the George W. Bush's tenure as President: "...while the bottom 99 percent of incomes grew at a solid pace of 2.7 percent per year from 1993-2000, these incomes grew only 1.3 percent per year from 2002-2007. As a result, in the economic expansion of 2002-2007, the top 1 percent captured two thirds of income growth."

Plus last night I heard there's a court case pending that will finalize the absolute legal dominance of corporations over citizens-I'm trying to figure out what case they were referring to.

I'm not sure where your "Fake America" is, but can you tell me where, and how I can move there?

I don't really care if I live in the country I was born in anymore. I think it's time to get out before the whole country implodes.

[ZPN]

When he said that I laughed and immediately thought does he even realize what he just said? Does anyone?

That was the dumbest thing he could have said. I was mad because it just gives the opponents of Public Option some easy ammunition.

WHEN WILL THESE PEOPLE FIGURE OUT IT'S JUST A PUBLIC OPTION?

OBAMA HAS TO SAY IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER-IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE THAT YOU HAVE NOW, YOU CAN!

(I for one DON'T want mine.)

[ZPN]

Front page of today's LA Times: "Uninsured flood free clinic at the Forum" (yes THAT Forum)

Turnout so large, hundreds had to be turned away.

..."evidence of the inability of the country's healthcare system to adequately serve the low-income patients..."

Do we really want this to continue?

Obama is just trying to address this situation. What's wrong with that? If Sarah Palin had proposed the same thing it would suddenly be called "brilliant" and "courageous".

Fox News is doing a great disservice to this country by constantly encouraging us to fight each other rather than work together. It's poisonous and wrong. Turn it off. Watch 'Sicko' instead!

THANK YOU!

[ZPN]

I love this one!!!

This just in: Obama announces to audience AARP is "on board" with his healthcare plan. AARP says "Wha? No we diin't".

I was not painting with a broad brush. My comments were directed at the individuals who are at the town meetings screaming and not allowing other people to speak and therefore preventing other people who want to learn something from getting any information. The ones who are yelling against a Public Option in health care reform AND yelling for the government NOT TO TOUCH THEIR MEDICARE (MEDICARE IS A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM)! The ones who made tombstones with members of Congress'es names on them, hung members of Congress in effigy, and make signs calling for the death of President Obama and his family members-even the children!

I did not say that all Republicans or conservatives are doing these things.

As to Obama being the most liberal member of the Senate-he's not. He's not "liberal" on a lot of issues, including not allowing Single Payer to be on the table.

[ZPN]

Is Sicko the movie where Michael Moore serves as a useful idiot for Fidel Castro?

Anyway, Fox News is doing a great SERVICE to this country by covering citizens expressing their views in the great tradition of the American Republic. It is the radical marxist utopists who are contemptuous of the little people questioning their elite rulers. MSNBC is a prime example of that sort of slime.

Now I've heard it all-MSNBC is MARXIST!

I don't like Fox, but I woudln't call them NAZIS!

I am liberal but not a Marxist!

Just like you can be conservative without being a FASCIST!

[ZPN]

BBC World News, and CBC World News seem pretty good to me. You can tune in right from your browser, just go here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/homepage/i/int/rad...-/worldservice/

or here

http://www.cbc.ca/world/

For the best possible mainstream news you can get. Too bad the U.S. doesn't have publicly funded news broadcasting, because they wouldn't have to make it "infotainment" anymore, due to the fact that they would get money no matter what,

Yeah but if we had publicly funded news broadcasting (we do have PBS/the Lehrer program/Frontline for TV and NPR/radio) someone would say it's Marxist/communist. I guess England is a communist country.

[ZPN]

I think watching MSNBC is almost like watching a tabloid now. They take pieces of what is said and sell it as the truth. Fox has some of that also especially with Glenn Beck, but with others like O'Riley and Briar, and I also like what Hannity does although he does go to far into the faith stuff sometimes. CNN is a little left if anything but not that far left. Both CNN and MSNBC are hurt because they are treating Obama too nicely. Not that there's a problem with that. I don't think they should treat him mean, but the job of a press is to question things. And they aren't doing that. And those networks also don't treat the town hall people with any respect for the most part.

As far as a revolution, I hope there is a Libertarian movement in this country. That seems to be where most Americans really are politically. I believe that most Americans would rather have a very conservative government fiscally but have a very liberal life style. Not in a way where there's anarchy type liberal, but a life style where they can live how they want to live. People don't need government to run their lives.

I live a conservative lifestyle and would like a much more liberal Government!

[ZPN]

And that includes you too Ted.

Regards, Danny the Bear.

Ha-good one Danny!

Nugent scares me-just kill everyone he thinks are bad?

We don't need a dictator. They have those in the middle east and other parts of the world.

Where people are tortured, raped, murdered and are destitute. The girls can't go to school and the women have to cover themselves head to toe to go outside. They can't worship with the men and can't be seen standing near the wrong person, or they are stoned to death. The only thing the boys are allowed to study/read in school is the Koran and boys as young as 5 are recruited to be suicide bombers, in the name of Allah. It wouldn't be any better if you substituted a Christian theocracy/dictator. Or a secular one.

Edited August 14, 2009 by ZeppyNetters

[cryingbluerain]

WHEN WILL THESE PEOPLE FIGURE OUT IT'S JUST A PUBLIC OPTION?

OBAMA HAS TO SAY IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER-IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE THAT YOU HAVE NOW, YOU CAN!

Yes, we can believe that, just like we can believe what he said about the stimulus:

and Medicare cuts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0EAP47SdcY

He's not the Joker, he's Two Face:

[Nathan]

Obama himself said just yesterday that UPS and FedEx (NON-government controlled and operated free-market economy corporations) were doing just fine, it's the POST OFFICE that's in a mess.

That entire Town Hall was a frickin' mess. Obama's proving his oratory skills are about as good as Bush's. And it was a very conservative individual who gave me that crack while we watched the Town Hall meeting with Obama.

What other "rights" do you propose?

The right to a nice home?

The right to a decent job?

To a decent vehicle to get to that job?

Where does it end?

Get yer fuckin' mind out of "entitlement" mode for once.

Um... yes?

Shouldn't everybody live in a house, have a job, have a vehicle to get to that job (a car, a bike, a motorcycle, a scooter, a bus pass, a train pass, etc), have health insurance, and so on? Makes sense to me. I think people should be given the bare necessities to live.

That doesn't mean computers, internet, television, cell phones, etc. That means a very specific list: a house, transportation of some kind, basic foods (like: chicken, bread, carrots, beans, and water... they can use their well-earned money to get more), health insurance, electricity, heat, water, and a job. They can use the money they make from their job to pay for everything else.

I don't see what's wrong with that. I don't see what's wrong with the Government helping people out who need it. I'm not saying take over the free market and become a communist state. I'm just saying help out those who need it and protect unsuspecting customers from shitty private firms like credit cards and health insurance companies who care less about you and more about that little green piece of fuckin' paper you carry around in your wallet.

The problem with health care is, they can drop you for no reason whatsoever. My family found that out the hard way when Mom got Breast Cancer back in 2005 and in 2007. We were forced to declare bankruptcy back in '05, but even worse, if a team of lawyers hadn't stepped in (thankfully they were family friends and did it pro-bono), Insurance would NOT have even approved her for her much-needed surgery and Chemotherapy. Do you understand that? If not for some lawyers willing to work pro-bono, our Health Insurance would have dropped Mom because she had Breast Cancer... TWICE... even after our bills with them had been paid, in full, for two years. Sorry... but I want our fucking Government to step in and force these assholes to stop caring about the Almighty fucking Dollar and START CARING ABOUT THE LIVES THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO INSURE!!!!!!!

Seems fair to me.

This just in: Obama announces to audience AARP is "on board" with his healthcare plan. AARP says "Wha? No we diin't".

He really can be an idiot.

I'm not sure where your "Fake America" is, but can you tell me where, and how I can move there?

I don't really care if I live in the country I was born in anymore. I think it's time to get out before the whole country implodes.

The Daily Show- The Two Americas:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

Part 7

As to Obama being the most liberal member of the Senate-he's not. He's not "liberal" on a lot of issues, including not allowing Single Payer to be on the table.

Actually... he is...

1. Obama is completely full of shit.

2. Plan passes, keeping private insurance will ultimately result in penalties.

Please... give us your sources. Just so you know... if one of your sources is Glen Beck, then you immediately lose all credibility.

I don't understand how Obama can be full of shit about it when there is no health care bill on the table! Does anybody even understand this? The Democrats don't actually have anything to cry over! There is nothing but a bunch of stupid talking-points that the Democrats can't even agree on amongst themselves. Each and every Democrat has talked about a different health care plan.

No wonder people are pissed off! Nobody knows what the solution is... not even the Democrats! So I don't understand why they're all traveling around, taking a break and giving Town Hall meetings. they need to get their sorry, lazy, do-nothing asses back to Congress and actually give us a short, concise, easy-to-understand bill that everyone over there can agree on, so we, as American citizens, actually have something to either get angry over or agree with. And sorry, but that 1000-page, eye-crossing, headache-inducing drivel won't cut it (I did actually try to read it... and I'll never get those 2 hours of my life back... ).

[TypeO]

WHEN WILL THESE PEOPLE FIGURE OUT IT'S JUST A PUBLIC OPTION?

OBAMA HAS TO SAY IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER-IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR PRIVATE INSURANCE THAT YOU HAVE NOW, YOU CAN!

Because he says it makes it true? It's amazing how those who were so distrustful of Bush are ready to drop their drawers and believe absolutely anything that comes out of Obama's mouth.

He's already established a pattern of saying whatever is necessary to attain his goal, including the Presidency.

You'll be able to keep your private insurance for a while, until they phase it out. Not to mention you'll still have to pay to support the government plan even though you don't participate.

Obama is on record more than once stating he favors going to single-payer even if it can't be achieved immediately.

So his assurances are just meaningless words designed to placate and overcome those who favor a public option.

Because he already knows that those who are insisting on a public option are already sold on healthcare reform, they just have a sticking point. So he tosses out a few heartfelt promises he knows are lies before they leave his lips.

[Nathan]

...and he'll take as much as he can from everyone else to see that they are...

Um... everybody... who?

I said people. Not the rich, not the poor, not the democrats, not the republicans. People. Everybody. Every single living person in this country, rich or poor, liberal or conservative, etc, etc, etc. So if he's giving it to everybody, then there's nobody to take from, now is there?

So who's he gonna take it from? Rabbits? Bears? Sharks? Dolphins? Coyote? Wolves? Sheep?

Ooh! I know! Cockroaches... yeah... those bugs have too much. Let's take it from them and give it to every living human being in the USA.

Give every single person, rich or poor, the bare necessities to live, then ensure they have a job. If you already have a job paying you $500,000+ a year, congratulations! You don't need a job! You already have one! Yay! If you already have a job paying you $30,000 a year, then congratulations! You don't need a job! You already have one! Yay!

If you're living on the streets because of just plain old bad luck and can't even make $10 a year from begging, then you need a job. Let's send you to school, give you a skill, and put you in the work face, starting at, say, $20,000 a year (or, if it's a family, starting at $30,000 to $35,000 a year with both parents on the work force and any and all kids in school), with the ability to move "up the corporate ladder" depending on how well you do. Just don't get fired, or they won't work so hard to find you another job. Give non-monetary incentives to keep everyone in school, and monetary incentives (raise and such) to keep people on the work force. These could monitored by the government to ensure they happen, but given and controlled by each business separately.

The more money you make, the more money you have to save, or spend on all those fancy things like TVs, computers, sports cars, fancy steak dinners, so on, and so forth. But everybody deserves a house, basic food, transportation, and a job.

If you disagree with that, then I have to wonder why you don't care about the betterment of humanity? Or is it that you just care about the betterment of yourself?

[TypeO]

Um... everybody... who?

I said people. Not the rich, not the poor, not the democrats, not the republicans. People. Everybody. Every single living person in this country, rich or poor, liberal or conservative, etc, etc, etc. So if he's giving it to everybody, then there's nobody to take from, now is there?

So who's he gonna take it from? Rabbits? Bears? Sharks? Dolphins? Coyote? Wolves? Sheep?

Ooh! I know! Cockroaches... yeah... those bugs have too much. Let's take it from them and give it to every living human being in the USA.

Give every single person, rich or poor, the bare necessities to live, then ensure they have a job. If you already have a job paying you $500,000+ a year, congratulations! You don't need a job! You already have one! Yay! If you already have a job paying you $30,000 a year, then congratulations! You don't need a job! You already have one! Yay!

If you're living on the streets because of just plain old bad luck and can't even make $10 a year from begging, then you need a job. Let's send you to school, give you a skill, and put you in the work face, starting at, say, $20,000 a year (or, if it's a family, starting at $30,000 to $35,000 a year with both parents on the work force and any and all kids in school), with the ability to move "up the corporate ladder" depending on how well you do. Just don't get fired, or they won't work so hard to find you another job. Give non-monetary incentives to keep everyone in school, and monetary incentives (raise and such) to keep people on the work force. These could monitored by the government to ensure they happen, but given and controlled by each business separately.

The more money you make, the more money you have to save, or spend on all those fancy things like TVs, computers, sports cars, fancy steak dinners, so on, and so forth. But everybody deserves a house, basic food, transportation, and a job.

If you disagree with that, then I have to wonder why you don't care about the betterment of humanity? Or is it that you just care about the betterment of yourself?

Are you still in school?

No punchline, just curious.

[longdistancewinner]

Yeah but if we had publicly funded news broadcasting (we do have PBS/the Lehrer program/Frontline for TV and NPR/radio) someone would say it's Marxist/communist. I guess England is a communist country.

LOLZ. Only people raised in such an insular fashion could think such scare-mongering shit.

[MisterMcLov1n]

Um... everybody... who?

I said people. Not the rich, not the poor, not the democrats, not the republicans. People. Everybody. Every single living person in this country, rich or poor, liberal or conservative, etc, etc, etc. So if he's giving it to everybody, then there's nobody to take from, now is there?

So who's he gonna take it from? Rabbits? Bears? Sharks? Dolphins? Coyote? Wolves? Sheep?

Ooh! I know! Cockroaches... yeah... those bugs have too much. Let's take it from them and give it to every living human being in the USA.

Give every single person, rich or poor, the bare necessities to live, then ensure they have a job. If you already have a job paying you $500,000+ a year, congratulations! You don't need a job! You already have one! Yay! If you already have a job paying you $30,000 a year, then congratulations! You don't need a job! You already have one! Yay!

If you're living on the streets because of just plain old bad luck and can't even make $10 a year from begging, then you need a job. Let's send you to school, give you a skill, and put you in the work face, starting at, say, $20,000 a year (or, if it's a family, starting at $30,000 to $35,000 a year with both parents on the work force and any and all kids in school), with the ability to move "up the corporate ladder" depending on how well you do. Just don't get fired, or they won't work so hard to find you another job. Give non-monetary incentives to keep everyone in school, and monetary incentives (raise and such) to keep people on the work force. These could monitored by the government to ensure they happen, but given and controlled by each business separately.

The more money you make, the more money you have to save, or spend on all those fancy things like TVs, computers, sports cars, fancy steak dinners, so on, and so forth. But everybody deserves a house, basic food, transportation, and a job.

If you disagree with that, then I have to wonder why you don't care about the betterment of humanity? Or is it that you just care about the betterment of yourself?

Sounds like the plot from The Giver.

All we need is the releasing of old people.

wait. That's what the death panels are for...

[Electrophile]

Nathan, Nathan, Nathan. I feel you. I really do. But as long as you have people in this country (and in this thread, sad to say) believing in GOP talking head scare tactics and going around bringing guns to town hall meetings, holding signs saying "Death To Obama" and "Death to Michelle and her two stupid kids".........everything you say will fall on deaf ears.

The right wing in this country has fallen off the fucking rails.

[zosodude13]

An open question to those opposed to government run health care...

The military is run by the government and last time I checked it is the best military in the world. Health care is/would a smaller operation compared to the military, so why would the government fail to properly run health care?

[Electrophile]

People are opposed to government-run health care because they have no clue what it is, what it will do or what it won't do. If you have health insurance, great. You get to keep it. You get to keep your doctor, your provider, everything. What this is doing is giving those WITHOUT health care........health care. Which is really fucking horrible, apparently.

Also, they'll believe any lie they hear about the NHS in England or what Canada has.

[eternal light]

An open question to those opposed to government run health care...

The military is run by the government and last time I checked it is the best military in the world. Health care is/would a smaller operation compared to the military, so why would the government fail to properly run health care?

I believe that the acronym, SNAFU (Situation Normal All Fouled Up), was invented by the United States military.

cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/02/army.secretary/index

POSTED: 11:50 a.m. EST, March 3, 2007

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Secretary of the Army Francis Harvey resigned Friday in the wake of recent reports of substandard conditions at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, a key facility treating troops wounded in Iraq.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates announced Harvey's resignation at the Pentagon, just a day after Harvey removed the hospital's commander, Maj. Gen. George Weightman, from his post.

"I am disappointed that some in the Army have not adequately appreciated the seriousness of the situation pertinent to outpatient care at Walter Reed. Some have shown too much defensiveness, and have not shown enough focus on digging into and addressing the problems."

Gates praised the doctors and other medical personnel at Walter Reed, and said they deserve support.

Troops recuperating from wounds they suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan were discovered to be living in substandard conditions in Building 18, an adjunct structure at Walter Reed that was once a hotel. There also were complaints of too much bureaucratic red tape.

Edited August 15, 2009 by eternal light

[MisterMcLov1n]

Obama knows the best way to force America into a transition to Socialism is to squash the entrepreneurial spirit of Americans. What is the antithesis of entrepreneurial spirit?

Able-bodied 21 year olds believing their future and security should be "given" to them

by the fucking government.

Anyway, this is what Obama is doing - just as his father preached in Africa.

those 21 year olds can't find work and making your own business costs a lot of money (thankfully not much red tape though).

We have plenty of socialized programs. Police force, firefighters, public education, public libraries, etc and they have been there for a long time. What if you were robbed and had to pay a deductable along with all of the stuff you lost because of the police visit? The people who should be getting jobs and starting business aren't being squashed by socialism. They are being fucked by the horrible economy and the last thing they should worry about is filing for bankruptcy because they are sick.

[Medhb]

Obama knows the best way to force America into a transition to Socialism is to squash the entrepreneurial spirit of Americans. What is the antithesis of entrepreneurial spirit?

Able-bodied 21 year olds believing their future and security should be "given" to them

by the fucking government.

Anyway, this is what Obama is doing - just as his father preached in Africa.

Actually, I think we can blame the parents that raised these kids. I've never seen a generation of children so spoiled, so expectant of praise for the most minor of achievments, so believing that everything will be handed to them on a silver platter...and it's because their parents raised them that way.

[ninelives]

Actually, I think we can blame the parents that raised these kids. I've never seen a generation of children so spoiled, so expectant of praise for the most minor of achievments, so believing that everything will be handed to them on a silver platter...and it's because their parents raised them that way.

:yesnod:

[longdistancewinner]

People are opposed to government-run health care because they have no clue what it is, what it will do or what it won't do. If you have health insurance, great. You get to keep it. You get to keep your doctor, your provider, everything. What this is doing is giving those WITHOUT health care........health care. Which is really fucking horrible, apparently.

Also, they'll believe any lie they hear about the NHS in England or what Canada has.

The BBC did a report from the U.S, showing a young woman say that Canada and England had terrible heathcare and 'not to go there.' They then reported how a campaign group spoke to a British woman about her dying mother's fight with cancer, and twisted her comments around to make it seem like she was attacking the NHS. They then used her comments in an anti-Obama health campaign. She's absolutely furious.