eternal light Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 The vast majority of students attending college they themselves are not paying for are doing so on government, not corporate grants. Your supposition on my preferences is incorrect. I am simply showing how education in America has just become another commodity to be bought and sold and how all to often there is no intrinsic value gained. That is just my two cents, keep the change. Grants are limited to the first 2 years of college. In order to graduate a 4 year program, an undergrad usually must accept a loan, which must be paid back. I believe that the availability of education has maximized opportunities for people they otherwise would not have if your cynical view were the rule. Education is supposed to improve people's lives. Limiting its availability is just another ruling class manipulation intended to keep people poor and helpless. I have never seen education as a simple commodity, but rather as something that is earned, and they know that in the better schools. I guess it all depends on who you have as a teacher. Founded by Andrew Carnegie in 1905 and chartered in 1906 by an act of Congress, The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching has a long and distinguished history. It is an independent policy and research center, whose primary activities of research and writing have resulted in published reports on every level of education. Eight presidents have guided the Foundation through its history, each bringing unique shape to its work. Influential Foundation achievements include development of the Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association (TIAA), publication of the Flexner Report on medical education, creation of the Carnegie Unit, founding of the Educational Testing Service, and establishment of the Carnegie Classification of Institutions of Higher Education. The Carnegie Foundation was a leader in the effort to provide federal aid for higher education, including Pell Grants, which assist low- and middle-income students. carnegiefoundation.org/about/index.asp?key=13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) I just want to say... I think it's frickin' hilarious that me saying I want the government to help those who need help to help themselves has somehow become me asking for personal free handouts. I intend to work for my goals, thank you very much. You know... get the degrees, get the jobs, climb up the music industry ladder, and, eventually, make the changes I want to see in the industry. Unfortunately, neither my parents nor I have the money to send me to the school I want to go to, so you can bet your ass that I'll be applying for loans, grants, and scholarships. I also have a couple contacts I intend to use on getting on. If you have a problem with that... well... as the late, great George Carlin would say: "Blow it out yer ass! Blow it out yer ass!" But I will do what is necessary to play the game, beat the game, and make the changes the music industry so desperately needs (for example, artists should be making the largest cuts on their royalties... not the record company executives). If that means applying for Federal Aid, Grants, Loans, and Scholarships to get the required degrees needed for what I wish to do, then so be it. Can't beat the game if you don't play it... Edited August 16, 2009 by Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 As expected you have missed my point. You don't need a fucking degree to get started, you just think you do. So your going to spend the better part of your 20s pursuing a series of meaningless degrees. If you had an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit in your Starbucks soaked bones these words would resonate loudly. Who are you to decide if a degree is meaningless to someone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) As expected you have missed my point. You don't need a fucking degree to get started, you just think you do. So your going to spend the better part of your 20s pursuing a series of meaningless degrees. If you had an ounce of entrepreneurial spirit in your Starbucks soaked bones these words would resonate loudly. You say that in a world that practically relies on degrees. Shit... most major business-world companies require a bachelors for a usual desk position, and a masters if you wanna move up the ladder. Besides... I'm not getting the degrees because I have to have them. I want them. I fully intend to be educated on everything I plan on doing. Believe me... I'm already drawing up my business proposal/model for my Record Label. I'm writing and recording music for an album. But I want the benefits of a great education from Full Sail University to help me with everything I intend to do and push me towards the contacts I need to make. I don't feel like I'm wasting my 20's at all. In fact, I'm quite looking forward to this venture. I happen to think that the education I know I will receive (and the education I have already received) is extremely valuable (to me, that is). If you want to consider me a brainwashed, docile sheep for this, then go ahead. I'm just telling you that I believe that this education is the way to go for me, personally... Edited August 16, 2009 by Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Look at my avatar. Your mother just called. Your late for supper...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Look at my avatar. finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/107531/billionaire-university Want your kid to become one of the richest people in the world? Send them to Harvard. The Cambridge, Mass., school tops our first-ever billionaire college study with an alumni base that features 54 10-figure titans, more than 5% of the world's billionaires. Of those 54 plutocrats, 11 received an undergraduate degree, 41 earned a master's, doctorate or juris doctorate, and two earned two degrees. Harvard's 10-figure grads include Philip Falcone, who studied economics, John Paulson, who earned his M.B.A. there, and hedge fund manager Ken Griffin, who began trading from his dorm room while an undergrad before creating money management outfit Citadel in 1990. Bruce Kovner earned a bachelor's degree in government from Harvard. He later dropped out of the Ph.D. program at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government, studied harpsichord at Juilliard and drove a New York City taxi, all before founding hedge fund Caxton Associates. Famous Harvard dropouts include Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates, the world's richest man, and Facebook creator Mark Zuckerberg, who ranked 321st on the most recent Forbes list of the 400 richest Americans with an estimated net worth of $1.5 billion. Harvard's hall of billionaires is more than double that of Stanford, which grabbed the second-place spot with 25 10-figure alumni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) Then keep on keeping on and forge ahead like a steam train. Just remember it ain't the degrees that can make the magic happen, it's you. Oh I know. But the education I get will help me to make the right decisions and know what I tracks I need to take to ensure my success and the success of those I wish to help (the musicians). It's not so much the degrees, Steve, as it is the education I'll get in getting those degrees. I truly believe it will be so helpful to me. The paper is nothing more then confirmation that I have the education necessary to do what I need and want to do. Edited August 16, 2009 by Nathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babs Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Your mother will be home soon, she's using my shower. Dad can finish her off then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Where do you send them to become self-actualized critical thinkers? Perhaps Columbia. No. 4 Columbia University (tie) Number of billionaire alumni: 16 Amongst Columbia's grads is affable billionaire Warren Buffett, the world's second-richest man. While studying in New York (class of 1951), the Berkshire Hathaway chief learned from value-investing legend Benjamin Graham. Other rich alum: Wal-Mart Chairman S. Robson Walton and Henry Kravis. finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/107531/billionaire-university Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 The public government ran school system in the US is among the worst school systems in the world and it gets the most money in the world. The problem with education isn't money it's what the money is really doing. that has always been one of the failures of the national govenrment in the us that is why social security is broke, medicare and medicaid are broke and it's why the post office is going broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) Dad can finish her off then.... Not doing the job for her, eh? Go Daddy, go! Edited August 16, 2009 by manderlyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 The public government ran school system in the US is among the worst school systems in the world and it gets the most money in the world. The problem with education isn't money it's what the money is really doing. that has always been one of the failures of the national govenrment in the us that is why social security is broke, medicare and medicaid are broke and it's why the post office is going broke. The postal service is "going broke" due to "dwindling mail volume and rising costs." cnbc.com/id/28898528/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterMcLov1n Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 The public government ran school system in the US is among the worst school systems in the world and it gets the most money in the world. The problem with education isn't money it's what the money is really doing. that has always been one of the failures of the national govenrment in the us that is why social security is broke, medicare and medicaid are broke and it's why the post office is going broke. Schools only really suck in high-populated and overcrowded cities. If public education became 100% privatized, that would truly suck. Not that you're implying that, but just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I dare say the majority of them had no business going to college in the first place. What has been gained? Tens of thousands of over-educated freeloaders who in fact display astonishing ignorance on every topic under the sun except Starbucks and Guitar Hero. Then there are the serial degree earners - sponging off Mom and Dad well into their late 20s earning one degree after another without maintaining any semblance of meaningful employment or personal responsibility. Students like dear Nathan are hoping the free ride is extended to become a life-long arrangement. A house, a car, a job and health care all provided by the govt. We are well and truly fucked. Haha takes me back to an episode of Jay walking. Jay Leno: Who lives at 1400 Pennsylvania Ave? Chick on the street: I have no idea. Jay Leno: Hint the leader of the free world. Chick on the street: I have absolutely no idea. Jay Leno: Who lives in a pinapple under the sea. Chick on the street: Oh! that's Sponge Bob!!! Dumbing down of America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) Haha takes me back to an episode of Jay walking. Jay Leno: Who lives at 1400 Pennsylvania Ave? Chick on the street: I have no idea. Jay Leno: Hint the leader of the free world. Chick on the street: I have absolutely no idea. Jay Leno: Who lives in a pinapple under the sea. Chick on the street: Oh! that's Sponge Bob!!! Dumbing down of America 1400 Pennsylvania Avenue?... The White House is 1600... Edited August 16, 2009 by 59LesPaul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 1400 Pennsylvania Avenue?... The White House is 1600... it must be contagious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 it must be contagious. I wouldn't say that....but it was funny. I'm pretty sure that they ask a lot of people those questions,and most get them right.They just edit out the right ones....makes it funnier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 The vast majority of students attending college they themselves are not paying for are doing so on government, not corporate grants. Your supposition on my preferences is incorrect. I am simply showing how education in America has just become another commodity to be bought and sold and how all to often there is no intrinsic value gained. That is just my two cents, keep the change. Most students attending college these days ARE paying for it themselves, through part-time and often full-time jobs. Times have changed. And when did education stop having value in and of itself? If you feel education has no intrinsic value, fine, but the people who get more of it have richer lives. Seems sad that this point even has to be argued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 There is a reason why job requirements often include an equivalent of education or experience. That is because both have value. It depends on each individual's accomplishments, whether it be in the workplace or the classroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 There is a reason why job requirements often include an equivalent of education or experience. That is because both have value. It depends on each individual's accomplishments, whether it be in the workplace or the classroom. A lot of my friends ditched their high school education and went to work for unions. They've done quite well. They weren't interested in the French Revolution or calculus, but got trained in a trade, and worked themselves up. A person's work ethic and abilities shouldn't be measured by how they stuck to school. In some cases (not all) there are people who just want to get on with it, and I've seen them do it. A person should not be measured by having finished school, but rather what they do when given a task. To judge someone's ability to stick to it based on what they did as a tennager in high school is erroneous and a waste of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 Schools only really suck in high-populated and overcrowded cities. If public education became 100% privatized, that would truly suck. Not that you're implying that, but just a thought. Yes...I'm a HUGE advocate for public schools. Many public schools are overcrowded, many public schools have their issues, but part of what made America AMERICA when it did was the fact that our children had public schooling. We DO need to make some MAJOR changes to the system, and that's part of the major reason I want to make such a difference in America's public school system. The fact that we do need to make changes in the system is the reason why I've taken many, many professional development courses on how to CHANGE the way I teach in a classroom--and all of this was before I was a graduate of an accredited teaching degree program. I'm not 100% sure what the change(s) in our public school system should be at the moment, but one of them is definitely the way teachers present the information, along with a few other things. Most students attending college these days ARE paying for it themselves, through part-time and often full-time jobs. Times have changed. And when did education stop having value in and of itself? If you feel education has no intrinsic value, fine, but the people who get more of it have richer lives. Seems sad that this point even has to be argued. I. Paid. For. My. Education. I know very few people who have had parent pay for their educations beyond high school. I have a lot of friends who belong to the middle-upper class, and their parents haven't pitched in a dime. Parents who live in multi-million dollar houses. Why? Because that's NOT the American way. (For the record, I paid for mine because I"m the first ever to go to/graduate college in my family. I also have about $50K in student loans...which had to be deffered this month.) A lot of my friends ditched their high school education and went to work for unions. They've done quite well. They weren't interested in the French Revolution or calculus, but got trained in a trade, and worked themselves up. A person's work ethic and abilities shouldn't be measured by how they stuck to school. In some cases (not all) there are people who just want to get on with it, and I've seen them do it. A person should not be measured by having finished school, but rather what they do when given a task. To judge someone's ability to stick to it based on what they did as a tennager in high school is erroneous and a waste of talent. That doesn't always work for everyone though. My aunt makes about $100K a year, and her highest level of education is a GED. Granted, she's the exception of the people I know, but she worked her ass off to get to that level. I was talking to a friend of mine last night--she manages The Disney Store in Boise. She's looking for a full-time employee, and she said she refuses to hire someone who doesn't have a GED or a diploma. I also remember that a girl who lived down the street from my mom applied for a job in a Kroger store, and they told her they wouldn't be calling her because she was a dropout. In a way, Ev, I feel that people who are older than me (over 30) have something good going for them in this respect: today it seems in order to be middle class, oyu MUST have a college degree. Even ten years ago, a high school diploma was the equivalent to what a college degree now. It's sad, but I hate to say it, it's true. So here's my teacher rant: "Kids, get your education!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 In a way, Ev, I feel that people who are older than me (over 30) have something good going for them in this respect: today it seems in order to be middle class, oyu MUST have a college degree. Even ten years ago, a high school diploma was the equivalent to what a college degree now. Oh it was harsh when I was 18! High school diploma or no job. Way they figured it, if you didn't have the wherewithall (sp?) to stick that out, why should we expect you to commit to us? In my day, a High School diploma wasn't so much a sign of education, but rather a sign of stick-to-it-ness. They didn't give a crap what you knew, or what you could do. They just wanted to know you weren't a quitter. That's why so many of my friends took union jobs. "Can you drive a forklift?". "Yeah". "Who stormed the Bastille?" "Who gives a shit?" "Pretty good with a forklift?" "Yep" "Welcome aboard!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I dare say the majority of them had no business going to college in the first place. What has been gained? Tens of thousands of over-educated freeloaders who in fact display astonishing ignorance on every topic under the sun except Starbucks and Guitar Hero. Then there are the serial degree earners - sponging off Mom and Dad well into their late 20s earning one degree after another without maintaining any semblance of meaningful employment or personal responsibility. And not working or looking for work, but with plenty of time apparently to post on internet message boards while they are so busy pursuing their education. And before anyone jumps on me as to how rough the economy is and that they can't find a job, well why are you wasting your time here complaining about it? What good is that going to do you? Oh right, they are just venting their frustations and anger over not having the government come in and solve all their problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 I HATE the fact that so many people apparently think an education has no value, or that there's no point to one. Could I have gotten a job right out of high school with just my high school diploma? Sure, it's possible. However college for me was a no-brainer. No one in my family had a college degree. At the time my parents graduated from high school (1967), going to college in order to enter the work force wasn't necessary. You started in the mail room and 30 years later you were CEO. My dad doesn't have a college degree but has 20 people working under him, most who have MBAs. That's how it worked for HIM and his generation, though. My dad's experience got him hired, not his education level. That being said, no one should be looked down upon for wanting to go to college and better themselves, even if it doesn't teach them how to use a socket wrench or change the oil in a car. If you promised me a job working at Walgreens right now if I gave up my college degree, I'd tell you to scram and I'd keep looking. That piece of paper may be worthless to some people, but to me it's one of the most valuable things I own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Bill Posted August 16, 2009 Share Posted August 16, 2009 . That piece of paper may be worthless to some people, but to me it's one of the most valuable things I own. I'm curious if you are working in the field you studied for? The reason I ask is most people I know aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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