Revolution?

[SteveAJones]

A simple solution that would go a long way towards insuring all Americans would to require all insurers to provide coverage for people with pre-existing conditions which would mean to get rid of medical underwriting. In order for that to work, there would have to be a law that all Americans have health insurance. You can not choose to go without. There are a lot of healthy young people that choose not to pay for health insurance. In order for the insurance rates to drop, there has to be a pool of healthy people subsidizing the sick people. It's no different than car insurance where good drivers with no claims subsidize the accident-prone.

If there is one thing I am more adamantly opposed to than Obamacare it is mandating all citizens have health coverage. Don't unelected Big Government bureaucrats interfer enough in our lives? What the hell happened to soverignty of the individual, let alone individual choice?

Thank you for sharing your experiences and reporting on the harsh reality. It's refreshing

to read a qualified opinion.

[cryingbluerain]

New CMA president: Canadian public health care is 'imploding'

The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association sees a public health care system on the brink of collapse - and the outgoing CMA president is publicly suggesting that more of a private system be implemented.

[eternal light]

Um...ok? How does a series of UK benefit concerts sponsored by a UK charity disprove a degree in music therapy is among the Top 10 (or even 25) useless degrees in the U.S.?

I would not say the degree is useless. If a position ever required someone knowledgeable about music therapy, the person would be qualified. There may not be a huge demand for that particular degree in the marketplace though. Even so, every undergraduate degree has breadth requirements that enables education in areas beyond the concentration of the major.

[Mangani]

There is: utopian socialism,

So everybody getting a fair crack at proper healthcare isn't the reason?

with pandering for votes a close second.

Politicians only get votes if the PEOPLE think the issue is worthy. If the PEOPLE didn't think the issue was worthy then the politicians wouldn't get votes.

[Electrophile]

Just a thought...More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can't get proper health care. That means that every day that we don't have healthcare reform in some shape or form to get these people covered, right around 50 people needlessly die.

[SteveAJones]

Just a thought...More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can't get proper health care. That means that every day that we don't have healthcare reform in some shape or form to get these people covered, right around 50 people needlessly die.

Just a thought...in a country of 307,201,092, so tomorrow make it 307,201,042.

Edited August 17, 2009 by SteveAJones

[eternal light]

Just a thought...in a country of 307,201,092, so tomorrow make it 307,201,042.

But if just 1 of those 50 is someone important to you, then it makes a big difference.

[Electrophile]

But if just 1 of those 50 is someone important to you, then it makes a big difference.

You don't understand. Apparently to him because we have over 300 million people living here, it's okay for 50 to die a day because it's not like anyone would notice. So yeah, fuck those poor 50 people. Not like they matter, right?

I guess that's some of that "compassionate conservatism" we hear so much about.

[Nathan]

Just a thought...in a country of 307,201,092, so tomorrow make it 307,201,042.

Steve... I'm really disappointed in you. It doesn't matter if it's one life a day. That is still one innocent life lost to a... ahem... broken health care system.

Haven't you ever heard the old saying "whoever saves a life, it is as if you have saved the entire world"?

Those 50 lives are just as important as the other 307,201,042 people in this country, and a loss of even one of those lives to a broken health care system is unacceptable.

I'm sorry, but if this is how you feel, then you just can't be taken seriously anymore. At best, it's disgusting. At worst, it makes me worry about you...

[longdistancewinner]

Just a thought...in a country of 307,201,092, so tomorrow make it 307,201,042.

I would gladly be a so-called 'socialist' a million times over if it meant never being as callous as you are.

[SteveAJones]

You don't understand. Apparently to him because we have over 300 million people living here, it's okay for 50 to die a day because it's not like anyone would notice. So yeah, fuck those poor 50 people. Not like they matter, right?

I guess that's some of that "compassionate conservatism" we hear so much about.

You don't understand. Only a bleeding heart liberal would sweat what is on average one person per state per day in a country with population of over 300 million. It reminds me

of something your Messiah said in Berlin last year about the U.S. - "We're not perfect".

Of course there can be no perfect system or perfect nation, but only a bleeding heart liberal would exhaust other people's tax dollars attempting to attain perfection, as is

clearly the case here.

[Electrophile]

Haven't you ever heard the old saying "whoever saves a life, it is as if you have saved the entire world"?

You really think someone like him has read the Talmud, much less even heard of that saying?

This is a person who told me that he was the smartest, best looking and greatest man on this site. Seriously.

He's not well.

[Evster2012]

Kirk: I would not presume to debate you.

Spock: That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Kirk: Or the one.

Spock: You are my superior officer. You are also my friend. I have been and always shall be yours.

[SteveAJones]

Haven't you ever heard the old saying "whoever saves a life, it is as if you have saved the entire world"?

Those 50 lives are just as important as the other 307,201,042 people in this country, and a loss of even one of those lives to a broken health care system is unacceptable.

I'm sorry, but if this is how you feel, then you just can't be taken seriously anymore. At best, it's disgusting. At worst, it makes me worry about you...

Haven't you ever heard the old saying "life is not meant to be fair"?

The importance of those 50 lives is not the issue. What is important is that bleeding

heart liberals don't fuck it up further for the 307,000,000 others who will wake up

tomorrow. That is unacceptable.

SteveAJones: I will listen now. After your family went bankrupt, you felt orphaned. You were 16 years old. You went to stay with cousins who lived in Buffalo. And…?

Nathan: [tears begin forming in his eyes] And one morning, I just ran away.

SteveAJones: No "just", Nathan. What set you off? You started at what time?

Nathan: Early, still dark.

SteveAJones: Then something woke you, didn't it? Was it a dream? What was it?

Nathan: I heard a strange noise.

SteveAJones: What was it?

Nathan: It was… screaming. Some kind of screaming, like a child's voice.

SteveAJones: What did you do?

Nathan: I went downstairs, outside. I crept over to the clinic. I was so scared to look inside, but I had to.

SteveAJones: And what did you see, Nathan? What did you see?

Nathan: The uninsured. The uninsured were screaming.

SteveAJones: They were turning away the uninsured patients?

Nathan: And they were screaming.

SteveAJones: And you ran away?

Nathan: No. First I tried to free them. I… I suggested cost-prohibitive health care reform, but it didn't matter. They just stood there, confused. They wouldn't do anything for themselves.

SteveAJones: But you could and you did, didn't you?

Nathan: Yes. I took one patient, and I ran away as fast as I could.

SteveAJones: Where were you going, Nathan?

Nathan: I don't know. I didn't have any food, any water and it was very cold, very cold. I thought, I thought if I could save just one, but… she was so heavy. So heavy. I didn't get more than a few miles when the sheriff's car picked me up. My parents were so angry they pulled me out of public school. I never saw the clinic again.

SteveAJones: What became of your uninsured patient, Nathan?

Nathan: They killed her.

SteveAJones: Well, Nathan - have the uninsured stopped screaming?

Edited August 18, 2009 by SteveAJones

[Evster2012]

Quid pro quo Clarice!

[Evster2012]

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's weekend concession on a health care "government option" drew complaints from liberals and scarce interest from Republicans and other critics on Monday, a fresh sign of the daunting challenge in finding middle ground in an increasingly partisan political struggle.

The White House insisted there had been no shift in position, adding the president still favors a federal option for the sale of health insurance. "The bottom line is this: Nothing has changed," said a memo containing suggested answers for administration allies to use if asked about the issue.

But some supporters of health care overhaul sounded less than reassured.

"You really can't do health reform" without allowing the government to compete with private insurers, said Howard Dean, a former Democratic Party chairman. "Let's not say we're doing health reform without a public option," he added in a slap at the administration's latest move.

His remarks were echoed by lawmakers as well as AFL-CIO President John Sweeney, who said the option was the only way to force "real competition" on the insurance industry.

Obama and his top aides signaled retreat over the weekend on proposals for a provision under which consumers could choose from health insurance policies sold by the federal government as well as those marketed by private companies. "All I'm saying is, though, that the public option, whether we have it or we don't have it, is not the entirety of health care reform," the president told a town hall-style audience in Grand Junction, Colo., on Saturday. "This is just one sliver of it, one aspect of it."

The government option has emerged as one of the most contentious elements of legislation taking shape in Congress, with critics saying it is a step toward a federal takeover of health care and supporters arguing it is essential to create competition with private firms.

Proposals for creation of nonprofit co-operative ventures have emerged as an alternative, but so far, neither liberals nor conservatives have shown great interest.

Obama made his remarks as he struggled to regain momentum for a health care overhaul that has generated controversy among Democrats and near unanimous opposition among Republicans. Recent polls show a lessening of support, and the administration and its allies were thrown on the defensive earlier this month when angry protesters turned up at widely publicized town hall events held by Democratic lawmakers.

The bill faces numerous obstacles when lawmakers return to the Capitol after Labor Day.

In the House, where Democrats hold a 256-178 majority, passage of legislation will hinge on the ability of the administration and Democratic leaders to satisfy liberals who favor a robust government option and centrists who prefer the co-op approach.

Because they cannot realistically count on any Republican votes, the margin for error is reduced. At the same time, House leaders want to protect their rank-and-file centrists, who tend to come from swing districts, and whose victories in 2006 and 2008 helped give the party its large majority.

In a statement, Speaker Nancy Pelosi said, "There is strong support in the House for a public option," adding it is the best way "to lower costs, improve the quality of health care, ensure choice and expand coverage."

But the statement did not rule out legislation that lacks a government option.

There are similar Democratic divisions in the Senate, where the party controls 60 seats to 40 for the Republicans. A bipartisan group of six senators has been meeting for weeks on a possible compromise that would not include a government option. It is not clear whether they will be successful in reaching a final agreement.

While the president says he favors a bipartisan approach, he has also said it may ultimately be necessary for Democrats to produce a bill more to their own liking.

Jim Manley, spokesman for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, said the Nevada lawmaker "supports a public option" because it could keep insurance companies in check. "But he also knows that 60 votes will be needed to get anything done. Senator Reid recognizes there are different proposals on the table that could accomplish this goal," the spokesman said, a clear reference to the co-op alternative.

The co-ops envisioned by some backers would be nonprofit, member-owned groups that would assemble networks of health care providers and negotiate payment rates with them. The government would provide up to $6 billion to get them started.

The history of health care co-ops in the U.S. is uneven. Many have failed because they were unable to compete effectively, or because tensions between doctors and consumer-oriented governing boards could not be resolved. But some, including one in Washington state, have operated successfully.

Dean made his remarks in interviews on NBC and CBS. He and Obama are not close, and the administration snubbed the former party chairman earlier this year when it did not invite him to be present when his successor was named.

"Leaving private insurance companies the job of controlling the costs of health care is like making a pyromaniac the fire chief," said Rep., Anthony Weiner, D-N.Y. Weiner is one of dozens of Democrats who favor creation of a so-called "single payer" approach under which the government would take over the health care system. For many of them, the government option represents a significant retreat.

Rep. Barbara Lee, D-Calif., who chairs the Congressional Black Caucus, issued a statement that called the weekend administration statements deeply troubling. "The Congressional Black Caucus remains committed to ensuring that health reform is meaningful, and that means making sure that a public option is part of the package," she said.

The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, issued a statement that emphasized other complaints about Obama's proposals.

"While both political parties believe we need to reform our health care system, particularly in the areas of cost and access, Americans are rightly skeptical about the administration's approach to overhauling everyone's health care and about the more than $1 trillion price tag. Moreover, Americans are concerned about funding new government programs through massive cuts to Medicare and taxes on small business," he said

[eternal light]

You don't understand. Only a bleeding heart liberal would sweat what is on average one person per state per day in a country with population of over 300 million. It reminds me

of something your Messiah said in Berlin last year about the U.S. - "We're not perfect".

Of course there can be no perfect system or perfect nation, but only a bleeding heart liberal would exhaust other people's tax dollars attempting to attain perfection, as is

clearly the case here.

Not exactly. Anyone who stands to lose the one person who matters most to them in life due to lack of affordability of health care would take these numbers seriously.

You only need to lose that one person who matters to you the most for these kinds of numbers to make a huge difference in your life.

[SteveAJones]

This is a person who told me that he was the smartest, best looking and greatest man on this site. Seriously.

Not to correct you, my dear, but what I told you last year was I am the smartest, most

handsome man you could ever hope to meet anywhere. If I have any fault at all, it is my humility.

[SteveAJones]

You only need to lose that one person who matters to you the most for these kinds of numbers to make a huge difference in your life.

Here's a thought: if someone you care about is at risk of dying on account of being uninsured pony up the cash yourself and bail them out. A second job? A bake sale, perhaps? Whatever you do, don't cause irrevocable damage to the overall system.

[eternal light]

There is a demand for health care currently.

latimes.com/news/local/la-me-health-clinic16-2009aug16,0,3772428.story

By Kimi Yoshino

August 16, 2009

The doors to the Forum in Inglewood opened Tuesday to a massive mobile hospital, the largest and longest-running free clinic ever attempted in the 25-year history of Remote Area Medical, a Tennessee-based nonprofit foundation more accustomed to serving rural America.

Through Friday, 3,010 patients had been served, many waiting for hours and some sleeping overnight in their cars for a chance at a free exam. In the first four days of the clinic's eight-day run, the foundation provided 2,054 fillings, performed 1,033 tooth extractions and 236 mammograms and doled out more than 739 eyeglasses. In all, an estimated $500,000 in care has been provided daily to patients granted appointments on a first-come, first-served basis. Despite the pace, hundreds of uninsured and underinsured people have been turned away. Organizers lament that they could treat more if additional dentists and eye doctors showed up to volunteer in the clinic's remaining few days.

Edited August 17, 2009 by eternal light

[SteveAJones]

There is a demand for health care currently.

Stunning observation, Sir Isaac Newton. Note the organizers lament more could be treated if doctors and dentists had volunteered. Let me guess - the answer is to

compel them to do so, right? Either they perform 100 hours community service at

outreach clinics this year or they lose their license to practice. It is unacceptable

for anyone in America to have a toothache tonight! In fact, once Nathan is thru

"fixing things" your every basic need will be met, and then you can spend the rest

of your government-run lives just eating at Applebees and reading People magazine.

[eternal light]

Stunning observation, Sir Isaac Newton. Note the organizers lament more could be treated if doctors and dentists had volunteered. Let me guess - the answer is to

compel them to do so, right? Either they perform 100 hours community service at

outreach clinics this year or they lose their license to practice. It is unacceptable

for anyone in America to have a toothache tonight! In fact, once Nathan is thru

"fixing things" your every basic need will be met, and then you can spend the rest

of your government-run lives just eating at Applebees and reading People magazine.

Perhaps you should try reading the dictionary to answer your question.

See if you can tell the difference between the meaning of compel and volunteer.

Dental care is important to anyone's overall health.

By the way, if those in the private sector were doing such a great job today, perhaps the markets would not have collapsed.

{waits for the snobbish response.}

[Electrophile]

{waits for the snobbish response.}

You won't be waiting long.

[SteveAJones]

By the way, if those in the private sector were doing such a great job today, perhaps the markets would not have collapsed.

{waits for the snobbish response.}

You got me pegged. Let me walk you thru this as if your a five year old - the economy

runs in cycles. It will fluctuate, occasionally collapse because the free market is a self-correcting mechanism. Put another way, if you eat to much ice cream you get a belly

ache. When your tummy feels better you can go back to running and jumping and

getting approved financing for a whole lot of shit you don't need - you know, toys.

[eternal light]

Those of us who are adults occasionally think more in terms of practical realities such as food and shelter.