Mary Hartman Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Is America on the Verge of Revolution? From Crooks & Liars: This comes out not long after a guy brings a gun to Obama's Town Hall meeting. I'm sorry... but this is getting out of hand... The more guns the better..... BANG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangani Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) "Given" everyone is looking for a handout nowadays, your opinion may be popular but as far as I'm concerned it is wrong. Some people seem to think college, a job and a house should also be a given. Where does one draw the line? Well I just told you. Fire service, police service and health service. Just these 3 life saving services should be a given. Speaking for myself, I don't expect a government to provide for me what I can obtain on my own. I can't put together a police or fire department, Yes you can. You already do in fact. Your taxes/rates pay for them. Edited August 19, 2009 by Mangani Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Yes you can. You already do in fact. Your taxes/rates pay for them. Of course I can pay for them, but I cannot train, equip and manage them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Well I just told you. Fire service, police service and health service. Just these 3 life saving services should be a given. Hi Magani, Dont forget the RNLI, run by charitable Donations, http://www.greatyarm...uk/funding.html and lets not forget the Armed Forces and Customs and Excise, and unlike the US of A, we in The Land of Modern Civilisation, (that being England), would rather spend our Taxes on helping our own people with Free Health Care than spending our Billions on Killing people in far off lands. And just in case anyone didnt know, our health Care in England is not completely FREE, if you work or have savings of £6000 or have an income above the threshold of Social Security, like a Pension, then you will have to pay for your Prescribed Medication (Drugs). But if you are one of the Lucky/UnLucky ones who do not have a job, or are recieving "Income Support" then even these will be Free. Of course you can belong to BUPA and have the Privilege of paying twice. (2 times) Also, if you have a life threatening Illness or Disease or you have Cancer your Treatment and Medication is also Free, and so it should be. Did we didnt fight 2 World Wars, and now a "Fight to the Finnish" with World Terrorism, giving up Millions of our Loved ones Lives to have to Wallow in Debt in our Old Age (or Young Age) just so some Fat Cat can become even Fatter at our expence through having to pay for "Health Care"? I for one dont think so, yes if you can afford to pay to jump the Queue by all means do, so long as you "Pay" for the "Privilage", next thing its gonne be the Air that we breath that you will have to pay for, we already pay for Water. Thanks for your ears people, Regards, Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 unlike the US of A, we in The Land of Modern Civilisation, (that being England), would rather spend our Taxes on helping our own people with Free Health Care than spending our Billions on Killing people in far off lands. And just in case anyone didnt know, our health Care in England is not completely FREE, if you work or have savings of £6000 or have an income above the threshold of Social Security, like a Pension, then you will have to pay for your Prescribed Medication (Drugs). But if you are one of the Lucky/UnLucky ones who do not have a job, or are recieving "Income Support" then even these will be Free. U.S. defense spending is at historic lows despite Terrorist Threat; do your homework: http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetChartbook/Defense-spending-on-the-decline-despite-war-on-terror.aspx As far as being "The Land of Modern Civilisation", if you say so, but you must also admit there are more able bodied men living on the dole in England than possibly anywhere else on the face of the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longdistancewinner Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 U.S. defense spending is at historic lows despite Terrorist Threat; do your homework: http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetChartbook/Defense-spending-on-the-decline-despite-war-on-terror.aspx As far as being "The Land of Modern Civilisation", if you say so, but you must also admit there are more able bodied men living on the dole in England than possibly anywhere else on the face of the planet. Perhaps, but considering many are not even English... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 The homeless in the United States live in tent cities. Subprime -The 'new' homeless in the US 8000 Floridians ,Homeless in the Woods 2008 How sad that is. And most of us are just a lay-off away from that. Think about it. How long will your savings last until you get another job in this job market. #2 especially angered me. What the bloody hell?! Box cutting up their tents? Is it illegal for these people to be living in their tents wherever they were? If so aren't those officers guilty of destroying evidence? Nice, real nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 How sad that is. And most of us are just a lay-off away from that. Think about it. How long will your savings last until you get another job in this job market. I got layed off from my job at the mortgage company almost two years ago. We've moved three times looking for work. The week after we arrived in Wisconsin, they closed the GM plant in Janesville, putting half the locals out of work. Now we're in Vegas and Angi is my bed-ridden aunt's full time caretaker. I've been pounding the pavement, the internet, everywhere looking for jobs that don't exist. It pisses me off when people say "Just go out and get a job". Evidently the employed haven't a fucking clue what it's like to be unemployed right now. I have been steadily employed since I was 16 years old. The times I wasn't were by my choice for reasons of wanting to experience new things. And I paid my own way. I haven't been dependent since my mom weaned me. But this sucks, and I don't think people get how hard it is. I have the skills, the persistance and the resume to compete. But when every business in town is laying off...well, it ain't so simple as "Go out and get a damn job!" Thanks for letting me rant. Oh and my savings? Currently down to -$1.00. Yeah, I'm starting to have night sweats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 #2 especially angered me. What the bloody hell?! Box cutting up their tents? Is it illegal for these people to be living in their tents wherever they were? If so aren't those officers guilty of destroying evidence? Nice, real nice. It's nothing new. Bing or Google "Hooverville" and you'll see history is simply being repeated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I think it is a simple issue of improving access to basic health care in the most affordable manner. That's not what our government wants to do. We can't afford healthcare for all right now the way they want to do it. We have healthcare for well over 90% of the people right now anyway. And most the remaining 10% are illegal or don't want healthcare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 That's not what our government wants to do. We can't afford healthcare for all right now the way they want to do it. We have healthcare for well over 90% of the people right now anyway. And most the remaining 10% are illegal or don't want healthcare. I question those percentages, but the principle of your post is correct: improving access to health care is not the intent of Big Government. They couldn't care less if Aunt Erma gets the hip replacement she needs, they do care about having control and reaping the profits being made on health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 We have healthcare for well over 90% of the people right now anyway. And most the remaining 10% are illegal or don't want healthcare. Quick question - is there an article you've read recently that breaks the numbers down like that? Because that's a little too clean. I'm curious as to how you know it's exactly 90% that are insured and 10% that are illegals or don't want insurance. Because to be frank, the idea of that many people voluntarily choosing to not be insured doesn't sound right to me, and I'd like to just verify that independently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Even though "we can't afford healthcare", if we do not plan adequately to cover basic costs now, then the costs generated by neglecting health care will cause premiums to rise, and that will make private insurance less accessible to the average person. Like it or not, if the private sector fails to address the need, the government will eventually step in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I got layed off from my job at the mortgage company almost two years ago. We've moved three times looking for work. The week after we arrived in Wisconsin, they closed the GM plant in Janesville, putting half the locals out of work. Now we're in Vegas and Angi is my bed-ridden aunt's full time caretaker. I've been pounding the pavement, the internet, everywhere looking for jobs that don't exist. It pisses me off when people say "Just go out and get a job". Evidently the employed haven't a fucking clue what it's like to be unemployed right now. I have been steadily employed since I was 16 years old. The times I wasn't were by my choice for reasons of wanting to experience new things. And I paid my own way. I haven't been dependent since my mom weaned me. But this sucks, and I don't think people get how hard it is. I have the skills, the persistance and the resume to compete. But when every business in town is laying off...well, it ain't so simple as "Go out and get a damn job!" Thanks for letting me rant. Oh and my savings? Currently down to -$1.00. Yeah, I'm starting to have night sweats! You certainly deserve a rant. You're a prime example. So far I've survived 2 cuts but more are probably coming and it makes ya wonder. I don't delude myself that I am safe or that, even with a great resume and experience, I'll even be able to get a job in the drugstore. My sister, a top performer in her field with a degree in finance, was let go and after exhuasting all avenues in her field tried to get a job selling cosmetics at Macy's. She went on TWO callbacks! (HUH?!) and didn't get hired. She's beautiful and has skin any woman would kill for, a finance degree and can't get a job selling cosmetics. I wonder who got that job. Does anyone know of any out of work models with a physics degree? They are probably selling cosmetics at Macy's right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I got layed off from my job at the mortgage company almost two years ago. We've moved three times looking for work. The week after we arrived in Wisconsin, they closed the GM plant in Janesville, putting half the locals out of work. Now we're in Vegas and Angi is my bed-ridden aunt's full time caretaker. I've been pounding the pavement, the internet, everywhere looking for jobs that don't exist. It pisses me off when people say "Just go out and get a job". Evidently the employed haven't a fucking clue what it's like to be unemployed right now. I have been steadily employed since I was 16 years old. The times I wasn't were by my choice for reasons of wanting to experience new things. And I paid my own way. I haven't been dependent since my mom weaned me. But this sucks, and I don't think people get how hard it is. I have the skills, the persistance and the resume to compete. But when every business in town is laying off...well, it ain't so simple as "Go out and get a damn job!" Thanks for letting me rant. Oh and my savings? Currently down to -$1.00. Yeah, I'm starting to have night sweats! Evster, I understand what you're going through. I'm going through it now, my sister is going through it now and my dad went through it for the longest time. Thank God this dream job of his appeared here in North Carolina or else we would have been in severe trouble. It always amuses me when people assume that if you're unemployed it's because you're lazy or shiftless or don't care to work. I have a college degree, I should be able to find work - but nothing is hiring. Even the place I was working last year doesn't have any hours for me and I haven't worked since February. So keep ranting, Evster.....I feel it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Well I'm not insured. I'm a U.S. born citizen, male, and I'm not pregnant, so that pretty much counts me out. But I still don't think the currently proposed solution is the right one. I haven't seen a dentist in 22 years. Thank god I have really good teeth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Quick question - is there an article you've read recently that breaks the numbers down like that? Because that's a little too clean. I'm curious as to how you know it's exactly 90% that are insured and 10% that are illegals or don't want insurance. Because to be frank, the idea of that many people voluntarily choosing to not be insured doesn't sound right to me, and I'd like to just verify that independently. Those stats just cannot be correct and like SAJ says asking the government to find the most cost effective way to provide health care is like padding their pockets from the get go. Something needs to be done, but independent studies need to help lead us in the right direction. I know I'm not asking the AMA on how to have a cost effective surgery lol, they would lead me to 4 other doctors first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Like it or not, if the private sector fails to address the need, the government will eventually step in. Try as they may, try as they might, so long as the free market continues to respond with doing so being political suicide it will remain a non-government run system. They are already talking about setting their sights lower and focusing on health insurance regulation and reform - which is where the attention should have been in the first place. However, talk is cheap and I predict nothing substantive will be accomplished because if they can't get their meathooks into the money they'll move on to something else. It's the same thing as the so-called energy crisis - as soon as gasoline drops below $3.00 per gallon all the political pontificating stops and everyone goes back to tracking Britney Spears' pregnancies and discussing Michael Jackson's taste in replacement noses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 It's nothing new. Bing or Google "Hooverville" and you'll see history is simply being repeated. Doesn't make it right for a cop to exacto knife your tent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Evster, I understand what you're going through. I'm going through it now, my sister is going through it now and my dad went through it for the longest time. Thank God this dream job of his appeared here in North Carolina or else we would have been in severe trouble. It always amuses me when people assume that if you're unemployed it's because you're lazy or shiftless or don't care to work. I have a college degree, I should be able to find work - but nothing is hiring. Even the place I was working last year doesn't have any hours for me and I haven't worked since February. So keep ranting, Evster.....I feel it too. Thanks Liz! Honestly, if it weren't for our rent-free situation caring for my aunt, we'd be living in the truck! Lord knows what we'd do with the cat! So we're blessed in that regard. I got the vehicle registration paid up for the next year, and the insurance paid up through October, so we have some breathing room. Now I just need to make the $250 in my pocket keep us fed until I get some work. But yeah, it's f-ing scary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 There needs to be a public option. However what I've heard of what is being proposed needs to be re-worked or else it won't work at all. There are about 5-6 different versions of a health care plan circling around Congress right now, so people should save their vitriol and soap boxes for when there is a definitive version being sent to Obama's desk. Right now NO ONE knows what will be in it and what won't. I've heard one group of people say the public option has been dropped, I've heard that it hasn't. BTW, "death panels" are not some group of people who will decide when you die or how you die nor are they going to kill Grandma and Grandpa. What it is called is "end-of-life counseling" and what it is meant to do is get older people talking about living wills, DNR orders and other things they need to make clear to their families when the time comes and decisions need to be made. These things are actually quite important and everyone should have a living will. There is nothing wrong with making sure that you know what your family wants done in the event that they are on life support or in a coma or something horrible happens and you need to talk to the doctors about what to do next. There is nothing wrong with end-of-life counseling and fuck Sarah Palin up the ass with a rusty knife blade for convincing stupid, gullible idiots that it's some room full of rogue ninjas killing the elderly and disabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I have a college degree, I should be able to find work - but nothing is hiring. Even the place I was working last year doesn't have any hours for me and I haven't worked since February. I call bullshit. Can you honestly claim to be agressively seeking employment, to include relocation if necessary. The unemployed have got to take what is available or move to where the better jobs are, as Evster has done three times (which is probably twice more than the average). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Doesn't make it right for a cop to exacto knife your tent. If the structure was in violation of a city ordinance the authorities may have a legal right to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 There needs to be a public option. However what I've heard of what is being proposed needs to be re-worked or else it won't work at all. There are about 5-6 different versions of a health care plan circling around Congress right now, so people should save their vitriol and soap boxes for when there is a definitive version being sent to Obama's desk. Right now NO ONE knows what will be in it and what won't. I've heard one group of people say the public option has been dropped, I've heard that it hasn't. BTW, "death panels" are not some group of people who will decide when you die or how you die nor are they going to kill Grandma and Grandpa. What it is called is "end-of-life counseling" and what it is meant to do is get older people talking about living wills, DNR orders and other things they need to make clear to their families when the time comes and decisions need to be made. These things are actually quite important and everyone should have a living will. There is nothing wrong with making sure that you know what your family wants done in the event that they are on life support or in a coma or something horrible happens and you need to talk to the doctors about what to do next. There is nothing wrong with end-of-life counseling and fuck Sarah Palin up the ass with a rusty knife blade for convincing stupid, gullible idiots that it's some room full of rogue ninjas killing the elderly and disabled. I called in Wednesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medhb Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 If the structure was in violation of a city ordinance the authorities may have a legal right to do so. 'May' have a legal right. It's still low ethics in my book. Tell the people to pack it up and go, you don't have to ruin their 'home'. I call it unwarranted violence and inciting a riot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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