Revolution?

[Nathan]

Actually, I'm currently enrolled at Georgia Perimeter College, Dunwoody Campus, about to start my final semester and graduate with a Business Associates Degree. At which point I will be moving to Orlando, FL to enter Full Sail University, where I will be getting my Bachelor's in Music Business, Music Recording, and Music Production followed by a Master's in Music Business. After which I will probably go to bartending school and cooking school as both ar hobbies of mine. That I will start a band, a record label, play the game, beat the game, and own the music industry so as to implement certain changes so that the Artist/Musician will be make upwards of 76% of his/her royalties instead of their current 10% (the Labels are making the 76%... I know... pathetic and disgusting).

So am I in school? Yes. Will I be for a long time? Yes.

And I'm not saying anymore because, you know what? Elizabeth's right. You Conservative idiots favor personal Greed over regulation to help curb HUMAN NATURE. Have fun. And the next time the stock market crashes, and the time after that, and the time after that, you can keep blaming NON-EXISTANT government regulation because you'll never want to admit that Unregulated Free Market can NEVER WORK for the exact same reason Communism can never work: Human Nature - also known as GREED.

And to clarify, I'm not saying people should be handed a billion dollars on a silver platter. I'm saying the government should help those who need it get on the path to helping themselves and living their lives. If that's entitlement, then, shit... entitlements a good thing. Not that I need it. We aren't rich (declared bankruptcy back in '05) but at least we live a house, have a couple cars, go to school, and have jobs. Not everybody's that lucky, though, and they need help. Period. End of fucking subject.

I leave you with Bill Hicks:

Bill Hicks - It's Just a Ride

"The eyes of Fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy guns, close yourself off. The eyes of Love, instead, see all of us as one."

[Electrophile]

Actually, I'm currently enrolled at Georgia Perimeter College, Dunwoody Campus

Holy crap, I know exactly where that is. My sister went there for a year and a half before we moved to North Carolina so she could do all her general classes and go straight into her major when she got to UNCG.

And I'm not saying anymore because, you know what? Elizabeth's right. You Cinservative idiots favor personal Greed over regulation to help curb HUMAN NATURE. Have fun. And the next time the stock market crashes, and the time after that, and the time after that, you can keep blaming NON-EXISTANT government regulation because you'll never want to admit that Unregulated Free Market can NEVER WORK for the exact same reason Communism can never work: Human Nature - also known as GREED.

What a lot of people fail to understand, again not because they don't want to but because they can't, is that socialism/communism......all the OOGABOOGA words that being tossed around.....won't work in the United States. The country is too big. The infrastructure is too big. There are too many citizens, too many states, too many local/state governments.....it's just not possible.

[Nathan]

Holy crap, I know exactly where that is. My sister went there for a year and a half before we moved to North Carolina so she could do all her general classes and go straight into her major when she got to UNCG.

Cool! It's not a bad school. I like the fact that it's so close to Dunwoody Square. I got a Burger King, a Starbucks, a Dunkin Donuts, a Publix, a Moe's, a Subway... on the rare occasion I have $5, I have a lot of choices. Now if only Taco Bell would open up in the Square... I would be in Heaven...

What a lot of people fail to understand, again not because they don't want to but because they can't, is that socialism/communism......all the OOGABOOGA words that being tossed around.....won't work in the United States. The country is too big. The infrastructure is too big. There are too many citizens, too many states, too many local/state governments.....it's just not possible.

This is true, of course, but you still have the issue of Human Nature and Greed. Even on a small scale, there's too much leeway for the "ruler" of this system to do as he pleases, and we see that with every current Communist country. Now, if there were some kind of regulation, or system of checks and balances, to keep that tendency in check, it could work, but then it'd no longer truly be Communism. Karl Marx was a great idealist, but he also had too much hope in humanity and really thought people could ocntrol their greed. Sadly, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[TypeO]

So am I in school? Yes. Will I be for a long time? Yes.

And I'm not saying anymore because, you know what? Elizabeth's right. You Conservative idiots favor personal Greed over regulation to help curb HUMAN NATURE. Have fun. And the next time the stock market crashes, and the time after that, and the time after that, you can keep blaming NON-EXISTANT government regulation because you'll never want to admit that Unregulated Free Market can NEVER WORK for the exact same reason Communism can never work: Human Nature - also known as GREED.

So I guess you make good grades, as well?

I'm surprised you don't expect to be given good grades.

Doesn't everyone deserve good grades?

[Nathan]

So I guess you make good grades, as well?

I don't do too bad. I mean, you know... this last semester really counts. I'm hoping to make straight A's this semester because I need to bring my GPA up.

I'm surprised you don't expect to be given good grades.

Doesn't everyone deserve good grades?

I nominate this for dumbest statement of the fucking century.

Yeah, you're right TypeO. Everybody deserves good grades, TV, Lambourghinis, computers, internet, cell phones, alcohol, tobacco, porn, on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on.

[sarcasm]Watch that snowball grow! Wow! I bet I could, like, hit the whole team on the other side of that snowy hill!

Oh... wait...

[/sarcasm]

I'm going to ask you a question, TypeO, and I damn well expect an answer. Why shouldn't the government help those who need help? Why shouldn't we?

[Electrophile]

According to the copy of the Constitution I've read, this is in the preamble:

"promote the general welfare"

Couldn't one make the argument that making sure our citizenry is healthy and able to get health care constitutes promoting the general welfare of our populace? Welfare in this instance doesn't mean government checks and food stamps. It means "well-being".

In the Declaration of Independence, does it not say the following:

"that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men"

Now what does that say? Sounds to me like governments are instituted to ensure, among other important things, that the populace LIVES. Don't you think health care for the populace would help them to oh I don't know.......LIVE?

[Evster2012]

I was not painting with a broad brush.

I said I liked Type-O's remark about having a brush so wide one wouldn't know where to store it. I wasn't opining on the remarks of yours it was in reference to. Sorry if you confused my appreciation of a good dig with what I think of your opinion.

[eternal light]

According to the copy of the Constitution I've read, this is in the preamble:

"promote the general welfare"

Couldn't one make the argument that making sure our citizenry is healthy and able to get health care constitutes promoting the general welfare of our populace? Welfare in this instance doesn't mean government checks and food stamps. It means "well-being".

In the Declaration of Independence, does it not say the following:

"that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men"

Now what does that say? Sounds to me like governments are instituted to ensure, among other important things, that the populace LIVES. Don't you think health care for the populace would help them to oh I don't know.......LIVE?

Especially if it prevents them from having to declare bankruptcy because they can never afford to cover the medical bills.

[TypeO]

I don't do too bad. I mean, you know... this last semester really counts. I'm hoping to make straight A's this semester because I need to bring my GPA up.

Would you have a problem if your school lowered some of your grades, lowering your GPA a little, in order to give a few grade-points to students who weren't doing as well, so that their GPA could be raised to a decent level?

It would seem only fair.

Some people aren't lucky enough to get as good of grades as others.

[TypeO]

Sounds to me like you cannot differentiate between promote and ensure.

EXACTLY!

[greenman]

I'd have top agree this doesnt seem too difference from the endless extreme reactions we got during Bush's years, "worst president ever", "he'll try and stay on for a third term" etc. Not that there wasnt much to be critical about but alot of the US population turned into mindless sheep with that criticism.

[greenman]

America became a very divided country during the '60s and it has remained deeply conflicted ever since. Throw technology, terrorism, a global recession, the imminent collapse of Mexico, and eight million or more illegal immigrants into the mix and you

have all the makings for big trouble.

Sorry but as I said I really don't see it, the left became stupidly hysterical during Bushes years in power talking about the collapse on the nation and were just seeing the same from the right here. Things would have to get vastly worse than they are now for any kind of revolution to happen in the US, even with the recession the vast majority of the population still live very comfortable lives.

I agree on the US being more divided than many western nations which is why I think were seeing this reaction, its less down to issues/politics and more down to the social divide with people looking to identify with political parties who in reality arent too far apart.

[MisterMcLov1n]

They are opposed because it is a socialist redistribution of wealth, among other things.

If you can do math, you should be able to figure out it is cost prohibitive to cover

everyone, to include illegals (don't get me started), unless everyone is compelled to

opt in and to penalize those whom opt out. Give me something more than idealism as

to why the haves should bailout the have nots. I bet you can't.

illegals aren't covered under the health reform bill.

[Hickory Man]

illegals aren't covered under the health reform bill.

Where did you come up with that erroneous factoid?

If we ask for citizenship papers before doling out healthcare bennies, the media will scream racial profiling, and the government knows it all too well.

I'm not saying they won't find a way to get some contol in place, but an amendment from the republican side offered by Dean Heller R from Nev. has already been squashed because it would curtail benefits for illegal immigrants.

[Nathan]

http://blogs.chron.com/immigration/archive..._immigra_2.html

Illegal immigrants NOT covered in health care plan

Since no one was able to find the provision in the pending health care reform legislation that says illegal immigrants will be covered, I checked the official House version of the bill.

Here's the key provision that says illegal immigrants are NOT covered in the plan.

SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Here's a link to the House bill. It's on page 143. I found it quickly by doing a "find search" in the document for the word "alien."

[Evster2012]

Section 246. That's about 240 confusing mindfucks we don't need to sift through. Are those 1000+ pages printed on BOTH sides? I hear that new concept may save us a few bucks! Jargon. Buncha fucking jargon! I suppose the money saved will be used to build a preserve for some rare bird that can't nest because of global warming.

[Jarlaxle 56]

It's a requirement to have 3 separate proofs of citizenship before receiving health-care here in Ontario. Nobody has said a word about racial profiling in all these years.

Not that anyone's going to pay attention to me....but I thought I'd make an effort.

[Evster2012]

It's a requirement to have 3 separate proofs of citizenship before receiving health-care here in Ontario. Nobody has said a word about racial profiling in all these years.

Not that anyone's going to pay attention to me....but I thought I'd make an effort.

I'll listen bro! As far as I know, if you have zero proof of citizenship in America, and a baby on the way, or are simply a non-English speaking Latina woman, you're in and covered. And your baby is an automatic US citizen.

Meanwhile, as a diabetic, I can't even get Blue Cross. Don't matter how many years I paid taxes. I'm on my own. Pre-existing condition. Isn't pregnancy a pre-existing condition when you're 8 months along?

Careful Canuck, I'm coming after your dole!!

[NickZepp]

Americans have been raised pure capitilists and really have been since the day it was conceived. Greed is part of that. But our forefathers didn't want a national government that controls the entire populations of the country. They saw how woefully inefficient England was at doing that. Do you realize that England never really taxed Americans over anything except tea during the entire 15 or so years before the Revolutionary War? National governments have harder times controlling bigger populations. They always have and probably always will. That's why all dictatorships or monarchies fall in the end. America has always managed to have a relatively small amount of control at the federal level. Capitalism works best with that because it decreases prices the more you buy stuff. What they want to do right now is control stuff so it somehow decreases prices. It won't work. The only way they cut down price is to cut down healthcare.

But now the progressives are finally starting to win battles. The progressive movement has it's roots in America going all the way back to at least the 1900s with Teddy Roosevelt, and Woodrow Wilson. America was really where the Eugenics thing started that Hitler became a big fan of. But the progressives which was a republican thing from the start never took complete hold. It's been around for all the years but it never took much hold till Bush got in office.

[Hickory Man]

Canada doesn't have our sensationalistic media, turning everything into a racial issue....they're just trying to make sure white America isn't trying to visit, and cash in on your health plan.

A bill of this size will have sections that cancel each other out, tag alongs that have nothing to do with the core subject, and enough verbage that runs opposite of the US constitution to keep the Supreme court busy for the forseeable future.

So back to the question...if we have to "give' people who don't pay into the system (and that of course is NOT limited to people here illegally) health care, how can the government regulate that? Illegal aliens have drivers licenses, fake ID's, and social security numbers...are we going to mortgage our future even more to keep an s-load of people onhand to do background checks? It's going to come down to the Amnesty issue a mentioned above, because if we're not going to turn people away at the borders, and ratify those who are already here as honest citizens, the government will be forced to throw up their collective hands and treat anybody with a drivers license.

Also can't wait for the cost of all of our goods and services to skyrocket, and wages go down as small businesses compensate for having to pay for healthcare benefits.

Does the government need to step in on healthcare? Yes, reform has been needed for a long, long time...does it need to be a national healthcare system? I've never believed so.

[Jarlaxle 56]

Blacks comprise just 4% of Canada's population. Latinos? 1.2%

Have you ever been to Toronto or Vancouver? Go, and tell me how many white people you see in comparison with asians and blacks.

It's simple really, all you need to do is require a birth certificate for health care, and have someone verify that birth certificate isn't a fake. It *works*, and it's cost efficient. Either that or some kind of proof of legal immigration.

Now, you want to talk about mistakes the Canadian government has made? Let's talk about the gun registry.

[NickZepp]

There's probably more conservative plans that would actually work to cheapen healthcare that would work better than nationalizing healthcare.

[eternal light]

Routine services that come with a small copay would allow screening for conditions that might cost more in the long run if they go ignored.

More expensive treatments for conditions of major impact could then be covered by grants.

Businesses could contribute to the grant funds and the government could allow tax write-offs as it has since the days of the industrial revolution.

Many people in the United States would never have attended college if not for the government's program allowing tax incentives for corporate gifts designed to benefit the public.

And we would never have had Exxon sponsoring PBS programs like Mystery.

In the same way that the government has encouraged corporate giving to benefit education, health could also be funded, especially the more expensive treatments for cancer or other costly conditions that require treatment but are enough to bankrupt the average patient.

[L 7]

The sky is falling ckicken little.

[eternal light]

I dare say the majority of them had no business going to college in the first place. What has been gained? Tens of thousands of over-educated freeloaders who in fact display astonishing ignorance on every topic under the sun except Starbucks and Guitar Hero. Then there are the serial degree earners - sponging off Mom and Dad well into their late 20s earning one degree after another without maintaining any semblance of meaningful employment or personal responsibility. Students like dear Nathan are hoping the free ride is extended to become a life-long arrangement. A house, a car, a job and health care all provided by the govt. We are well and truly fucked.

I suppose you would prefer to keep the majority of the population uneducated, impoverished and powerless by limiting their opportunities.

By the way, the government did not provide the grants that I mentioned, business did.

The government's role was to provide a tax credit to the private donor. That is how the Carnegie Foundation evolved.