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Nathan

Revolution?

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*sigh* I'm agreeing that thanks to the recent news coverage, the majority of people now DON'T want that change. Due to the fear of what it might lead to, because of the way it's been mischaracterized by the right

Mischaracterized in what fashion? Through the Congressional Budget Office's finding that the House plan would significantly raise health-care costs? Or by revealing that the now abandoned section covering end-of-life issues had an in-built conflict of interest between lowering costs and providing care for the elderly? Or perhaps by showing that Mr. Obama's ultimate goal is a single-payer system, when Americans can watch him on earlier videos saying as much?

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If the Democrats were truly trying to ram anything through Congress, they certainly are having difficulty aiming, wouldn't you say? There's no single version of any bill on the floor of either house and Obama, at least as far as I've read, has been trying to work with Republicans on some compromises to make it easier for it to get through, when there actually IS a single, finished version to speak of. The way some people make it sound, it's damn near to his desk already. That would be ramming it through. He doesn't want to do that. Again, not that I've read and not that I've heard.

Edited by Electrophile

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Mischaracterized in what fashion? Through the Congressional Budget Office's finding that the House plan would significantly raise health-care costs? Or by revealing that the now abandoned section covering end-of-life issues had an in-built conflict of interest between lowering costs and providing care for the elderly? Or perhaps by showing that Mr. Obama's ultimate goal is a single-payer system, when Americans can watch him on earlier videos saying as much?

^^ "The reason is irrelevant."

So 49% of Americans have no health insurance and the rest of us pay for their care, fine . . . Or insurance often runs out when the illness is "catastrophic" (I had to cash in a chunk of my retirement savings to pay for mine)--no, nothing here that needs changing at all, let's stick with the system we've got . . .

I'm off to the Beautiful Men thread, at least it gives me hope for the future. :D:wave:

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What conclusions do you think I'm presenting? Read the post again--I'm agreeing with you. The fearmongers have indeed been successful enough to turn people against reform, by raising the groundless specter of Communist overthrow etc. and mischaracterizing scary changes that nobody has in fact suggested. YOU post the data! :D

I think I'm for more reform than our government is currently wanting to do. What I believe probably makes our healthcare cheaper than what the US government will try and do right now.

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If the Democrats were truly trying to ram anything through Congress, they certainly are having difficulty aiming, wouldn't you say?

I was speaking of the talk this week about going for the "nuclear option". The rest of your post I agree with.

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I was speaking of the talk this week about going for the "nuclear option". The rest of your post I agree with.

I must admit, as much as I read and watch and listen to on this subject, I have not heard of that until now. What specifically is the "nuclear option" and is there an article online somewhere so I can get more acquainted on the subject?

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I must admit, as much as I read and watch and listen to on this subject, I have not heard of that until now. What specifically is the "nuclear option" and is there an article online somewhere so I can get more acquainted on the subject?

Try google news> reconciliation here's one to start

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*sigh* I'm agreeing that thanks to the recent news coverage, the majority of people now DON'T want that change. Due to the fear of what it might lead to, because of the way it's been mischaracterized by the right--but the reason is irrelevant. I'M AGREEING WITH YOUR FUCKING DATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How Many More Times? :rolleyes::D

Perhaps this smiley :D doesn't convey the same tone of voice to others as it does to me. I've never had so much difficulty convincing someone that I think he's right. :lol: Hence my retirement.

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Perhaps this smiley :D doesn't convey the same tone of voice to others as it does to me. I've never had so much difficulty convincing someone that I think he's right. :lol: Hence my retirement.

Explain how what I posted backs up your statements that propaganda is why people have turned against the dems plans. Nothing in what I posted does that.

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Explain how what I posted backs up your statements that propaganda is why people have turned against the dems plans. Nothing in what I posted does that.

I thought you didn't want me to have the last word? :huh: Make up your mind.

OK, this absolutely is MY last word on the subject, then you can debate it all you like.

You are continuing to misunderstand what I am saying. What you posted does NOT back up that particular statement of mine, and I never said it did. What you posted DOES back up my statement that people are now against reform. We differ over the reasons for them being against it, but WE AGREE that they ARE against it. You supplied the evidence, I accepted it. I said what I thought the reasons were (which had nothing to do with your data), but said that in any case I thought the reasons were irrelevant, thus there was hardly any need to announce that they were my opinion or provide data. You can disagree about that if you like, but that is all I have to say on this or most other subjects for right now.

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I thought you didn't want me to have the last word? :huh: Make up your mind.

OK, this absolutely is MY last word on the subject, then you can debate it all you like.

You are continuing to misunderstand what I am saying. What you posted does NOT back up that particular statement of mine, and I never said it did. What you posted DOES back up my statement that people are now against reform. We differ over the reasons for them being against it, but WE AGREE that they ARE against it. You supplied the evidence, I accepted it. I said what I thought the reasons were (which had nothing to do with your data), but said that in any case I thought the reasons were irrelevant, thus there was hardly any need to announce that they were my opinion or provide data. You can disagree about that if you like, but that is all I have to say on this or most other subjects for right now.

It's hard to tell from all the spin but I guess you are finally admitting that it's your opinion as to why people have changed their minds, it's about time. Good night :D

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I had no problem discerning it was her opinion about 384739847298439 posts ago. So why it took you so long to catch up is a different story.

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I think we need a program to train more doctors, even with a health care plan if you have the same amount of doctors you will have longer waits for appointments which in the case of someone such as myself time is critical. As it is I still had to wait 3 weeks to get my surgery scheduled.unsure.gif

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The best way to ensure we have an ample amount of surgeons is to keep the government out of running health care. If health care becomes government-owned and operated, surgeons will not reap the perks and profits of

private practice as they do now and this will directly result in fewer students going thru medical school.

Because lord knows this is why they choose medicine.

Need those drug pushers perks for sure.

I used to wait for hours in my OLD doctors office while I would sit there and see patients angrily puffing waiting forever...as "patients" are trained to do, and be grateful if they are ever seen, saying, oh I understand doc....( good little subservient patient), while several drug company reps flew right through the patient doors to go upstairs and wait for all the catered food brought in from the finest chefs in Asheville.

You could hear them whoppin' it up the whole time. No one was available during these love-drug fests.

Then, after pretending I didn't want to smack him, he would proceed to listen...kinda, and lo and behold...bring out DRUG samples, you know..."just give it a try."

Several I found out were recalled, and luckily I never took them, because I read up on the side effects and contradictions, some life threating.

If you are only looking for perks and high class living, not the care of sick people, I would urge those to go into law instead.

There are of course excellent doctors who volunteer, give free services, go to teaching seminars, not drug company parties, who I for one am truly grateful for. That recent free clinic at The Forum is a prime example of docs who do care and have compassion for their fellow man. I saw a few interviewed and they were awestruck at how many people showed up with serious problems. In particular, so many with no dental, they pulled a huge amount of badly infected teeth, that can lead to heart disease, and sepsis which can be deadly.

They all said they would stay longer if they could, and after the large turn out I believe they are planning further free clinics. Taking care of things like that reduces the eventual total cost.

I applaud these men and women who are hero's in my book.

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They'll make it up.

POOR doctors...sniff sniff.

That's the price they pay.

Hell, many average graduates have a debt of 50,000.

I'm saying go into medicine for honorable reasons and you won't have a gripe about your loans. :)

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Anyone graduating from college, no matter their degree, is going to have debt. It doesn't matter if you went into teaching (like my sister), business (like me) or medicine (like them). Obviously medical school is extremely expensive, so their debts will be more than mine or yours or my sister's or anyone else's.

That doesn't mean however, those people go into private practice solely to make money. I'm sure the prospect of being able to pay off those debts faster than those who choose to work in hospitals is very, very alluring, but to say that they all take that particular route for the sake of the almighty dollar is not only insulting to them, it's painting them all with a very broad brush. I don't doubt that there are med school grads who take private practice to mean the fast track to easy street and a debt-free 20s and 30s, but I would bet they are in the minority.

Not everyone who chooses to be a doctor (or a lawyer, even) does so just to make a lot of money. Some people, and I know this is strange to you, some people do so because they truly want to help others and the money is merely a side effect.

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Not everyone who chooses to be a doctor (or a lawyer, even) does so just to make a lot of money. Some people, and I know this is strange to you, some people do so because they truly want to help others and the money is merely a side effect.

THAT is what I said, sassy! :slapface:

And NO, it isn't strange to me.

:wacko:

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Just in case I got my wires crossed up somewhere, my post was directed at Steve, not you Hotplant.

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Anyone graduating from college, no matter their degree, is going to have debt. It doesn't matter if you went into teaching (like my sister), business (like me) or medicine (like them). Obviously medical school is extremely expensive, so their debts will be more than mine or yours or my sister's or anyone else's.

That doesn't mean however, those people go into private practice solely to make money. I'm sure the prospect of being able to pay off those debts faster than those who choose to work in hospitals is very, very alluring, but to say that they all take that particular route for the sake of the almighty dollar is not only insulting to them, it's painting them all with a very broad brush. I don't doubt that there are med school grads who take private practice to mean the fast track to easy street and a debt-free 20s and 30s, but I would bet they are in the minority.

Not everyone who chooses to be a doctor (or a lawyer, even) does so just to make a lot of money. Some people, and I know this is strange to you, some people do so because they truly want to help others and the money is merely a side effect.

That's very true that some people do like to help others and aren't in it for the money. These days many doctors in private practice will tell you the pay isn't what it used to be. Insurance companies don't pay as much to them and they end up having to take many more patients and medical mal practice insurance is astronomical.

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Oh, ok...sorry.

And BTW...sassy isn't a bad thing. :D

Yeah, I think it's kinda cute :lol: Well, I've been called that many times myself so...I guess I would :huh:

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All my Dr's are quite busy and some even harried. Most of them don't get vacations very often, it's hard to book around that, which contributes to how long it takes to get in to see them! My gyno has been called away from two of my appointments to deliver babies. She hasn't had a vacation in years.

It takes a lot of time and effort to be a cut above average and be a really high earner. The overhead of their office, staff, equipment, etc. is high and the stream of patients does not stop. They schedule at 15 min intervals to make the wages but of course run over time because many patients can't just do the in and out (I'm always very prepared) so they end up working late. Then, many have hospital rounds to do also. I really don't think it's a life of glamour for most of them. I can speak with some authority since I go to 8 different doctors. I don't think that is easy on either the Dr's or myself! Keeping track of meds, records, test results, scans, blah blah blah. My one Dr. doesn't even store films, I have them all!!

Nah, I don't think I'd go into medicine myself...

Edited by Medhb

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I don't know why I keep posting, because I'm never going to change your mind. I can only think Barney Frank (A GAY JEWISH MAN-why the F did that woman think he would support a "Hitler" policy? He probably would have been one of the first people sent to a concentration camp.) was not off base when he asked on what planet she spent most of her time, and said talking to her was like having an argument with the dining room table (did anyone see Stephen Colbert's show after that, with the table & desk lamp? He is so HILLARIOUS!).

Because many of Hitler's policies were socialist.

And Hitler's National Socialist German Workers’ Party took over the country's banking, and auto industry, and healthcare.

Can't count how many times I've heard this.

"Oh Nazis hated jews and blacks, so that's a stupid comment!"

It's not saying Obama's LITERALLY a member of the Nazi party.

It's saying Obama is employing Nazi ideals/policies.

So it doesn't matter that Barney is jewish and gay and Obama is black, they can still be guilty of proposing Nazi policies.

It was just a typical political sidestep.

Employing the tactic of literalism.

Literalism = disingenuous.

He knew what she and all the rest of the people making those statements meant, and his response was to intentionally misconstrue the meaning as something that wouldn't make as much sense.

Because that's a whole lot easier than explaining how Obamacare ISN'T a socialist policy.

The bottom line is Barney Frank's job is to listen to the opinions of his constituency and take them into consideration, and NOT to attempt to mock and ridicule those tax payers he is paid to represent like it's an episode of HBO Snaps. And if a constituent is irate like that woman was, it's his job to suck it up (shouldn't be too hard for him), even if he thought it was disrespectful, and retain the decorum that's expected from an elected member of Congress.

And that sorry sack of shit keeps screaming BUSH when they rightly questioned why we should trust their word on this healthcare bullshit when he PERSONALLY oversaw Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as they continued to slide down the drain. That lying fucker repeatedly assured the public and investors that things were fine knowing full well it was imploding. He's WAY more responsible for the country's economic collapse than Bernie Madoff, but Madoff was an easy scapegoat for the media to repeatedly point to, in order for people to get their minds off the real issue.

This administration's most common tactic is to create a "bad guy" to focus on, instead of the real issue that needs to be addressed.

First it was the banking fatcats and Bernie Madoff, then it was the auto execs (oh, but they're good guys now that the government runs them), then the greedy doctors who'd saw off your leg to make a few extra bucks, then the greedy insurance companies.

Edit: oops! Barney's from the House, not the Senate.

Edited by TypeO

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Hi all,

retain the decorum that's expected from a United States Senator.

Isn't 'retain the decorum/U.S. Senator', an oxymoron? :blink::P

But Blarney,isn't, he is a Rep. Still, he is a scum-bag,the best there is.

Good post,O! :)

KB

Edited by Anjin-san

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