The English invented...Haggis?

[the queen without a king]

here's the full article: http://www.thestar.com/article/679835

Toronto butcher Paul Bradshaw's phone has been ringing with calls from outraged family in Scotland, all wanting to tell him the offensive news: The English are now claiming they invented haggis.

Och aye, haggis, the Scots' national dish of sheep heart, liver and lungs cooked with oatmeal in the animal's stomach, the traditional meal immortalized by the much-beloved Scottish poet Robert Burns in "Address to a Haggis."

A food historian is stirring up the controversy after discovering a printed reference to haggis in a recipe book, The English Hus-Wife, from 1615. The earliest mention in a Scottish book was 1747. Burns' poem was written in 1786.

"It's ridiculous," says Bradshaw, who trained in Scotland with an award-winning haggis-maker. "I've only ever met two or three English people willing to eat it. Everyone in Scotland does.

"It'll blow over – depending on how angry the Scots get. They're pretty protective of their haggis."

Not since the British government banned the wearing of kilts and the playing of bagpipes after the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie in 1746 have the Scots been so distraught about their national symbols.

"This haggis grab is akin to a land grab and it's a sign of its culinary success now as a swanky dish," Alex Salmond, the First Minister of Scotland, told the Sunday Mail.

In a New York Times op-ed piece called "Keep Your Hands Off Our Haggis," Scottish author Alexander McCall Smith explained to Americans that this insult was comparable to claiming that apple pie and turkey with cranberry sauce were really French.

Scots in Toronto are also offal-ly steamed.

"It's a sign of the inherent weakness in the English character that leads them to try and appropriate successes created by other nations," says book publisher Douglas Gibson.

"You wait. They'll be inventing golf next and developing whisky. They have no shame."

"England is happy to take anything Scottish and call it their own," says Patricia Main, president of the St. Andrew's Society, a philanthropic Scottish cultural group.

"They took our king way back, our Stone of Destiny, now our haggis, too."

So why is this sheep-innards sausage so central to the Scots?

"It's an example of Scottish defiance, prickliness, to have a national dish that turns most people's stomachs," explains Gibson, named Canada's Scot of the Year in 2005.

"The point is that haggis is the really, really cheap parts of meat and really, really cheap to make, and very nourishing."

Over the years, the origins of Scotland's other national symbols, the kilt and bagpipes, have also been debated, says Graeme Morton, the Scottish studies fFoundation chair at the University of Guelph.

"National symbols only became important with the idea of a nation-state in the 18th century," he explains. "And that's when the Scots claimed the kilt, bagpipes and haggis as their own."

He is not convinced by a 1615 recipe book that haggis is English. "It's hard to chart food. Recipes are passed on, not written down."

At the University of Toronto, Andy Orchard, professor of English and medieval studies, finds it more compelling evidence, although he wants to be diplomatic. After all, his father is English and his mother Scots-Irish.

"I don't want to go against Robert Burns and that pudding they seem to adore," says Orchard. "But unless the Scots come up with anything earlier, too bad."

At the But 'n' Ben, a Scottish bakery in Pickering that also sells haggis, Helen Tannahill wonders if the pride of Highlands kitchens might actually date back to the Romans or Vikings.

She's not disturbed by the English claim.

"I've been here (in Canada) since I was 13. My Dad would be more upset," she says, handing the phone to her 83-year-old father, explaining to him a reporter says haggis might be English.

"You been eatin' cheese," says Alex Baird in a thick Scottish brogue. "That means you been dreamin'."

[BIGDAN]

here's the full article: http://www.thestar.com/article/679835

Toronto butcher Paul Bradshaw's phone has been ringing with calls from outraged family in Scotland, all wanting to tell him the offensive news: The English are now claiming they invented haggis.

Och aye, haggis, the Scots' national dish of sheep heart, liver and lungs cooked with oatmeal in the animal's stomach, the traditional meal immortalized by the much-beloved Scottish poet Robert Burns in "Address to a Haggis."

A food historian is stirring up the controversy after discovering a printed reference to haggis in a recipe book, The English Hus-Wife, from 1615. The earliest mention in a Scottish book was 1747. Burns' poem was written in 1786.

"It's ridiculous," says Bradshaw, who trained in Scotland with an award-winning haggis-maker. "I've only ever met two or three English people willing to eat it. Everyone in Scotland does.

"It'll blow over – depending on how angry the Scots get. They're pretty protective of their haggis."

Not since the British government banned the wearing of kilts and the playing of bagpipes after the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie in 1746 have the Scots been so distraught about their national symbols.

"This haggis grab is akin to a land grab and it's a sign of its culinary success now as a swanky dish," Alex Salmond, the First Minister of Scotland, told the Sunday Mail.

In a New York Times op-ed piece called "Keep Your Hands Off Our Haggis," Scottish author Alexander McCall Smith explained to Americans that this insult was comparable to claiming that apple pie and turkey with cranberry sauce were really French.

Scots in Toronto are also offal-ly steamed.

"It's a sign of the inherent weakness in the English character that leads them to try and appropriate successes created by other nations," says book publisher Douglas Gibson.

"You wait. They'll be inventing golf next and developing whisky. They have no shame."

"England is happy to take anything Scottish and call it their own," says Patricia Main, president of the St. Andrew's Society, a philanthropic Scottish cultural group.

"They took our king way back, our Stone of Destiny, now our haggis, too."

So why is this sheep-innards sausage so central to the Scots?

"It's an example of Scottish defiance, prickliness, to have a national dish that turns most people's stomachs," explains Gibson, named Canada's Scot of the Year in 2005.

"The point is that haggis is the really, really cheap parts of meat and really, really cheap to make, and very nourishing."

Over the years, the origins of Scotland's other national symbols, the kilt and bagpipes, have also been debated, says Graeme Morton, the Scottish studies fFoundation chair at the University of Guelph.

"National symbols only became important with the idea of a nation-state in the 18th century," he explains. "And that's when the Scots claimed the kilt, bagpipes and haggis as their own."

He is not convinced by a 1615 recipe book that haggis is English. "It's hard to chart food. Recipes are passed on, not written down."

At the University of Toronto, Andy Orchard, professor of English and medieval studies, finds it more compelling evidence, although he wants to be diplomatic. After all, his father is English and his mother Scots-Irish.

"I don't want to go against Robert Burns and that pudding they seem to adore," says Orchard. "But unless the Scots come up with anything earlier, too bad."

At the But 'n' Ben, a Scottish bakery in Pickering that also sells haggis, Helen Tannahill wonders if the pride of Highlands kitchens might actually date back to the Romans or Vikings.

She's not disturbed by the English claim.

"I've been here (in Canada) since I was 13. My Dad would be more upset," she says, handing the phone to her 83-year-old father, explaining to him a reporter says haggis might be English.

"You been eatin' cheese," says Alex Baird in a thick Scottish brogue. "That means you been dreamin'."

Hi 'the queen without a king'

Total Bollocks, "Boil in the Bag Meat" was probably brought over here by the Romans, even the Red Indians had it before the Scotch.

Everything the Scotch have they nicked it from some other civilisation, Whisky from Rome, Kilts and Bag Pipes from Ireland, Tartan was thrust upon them by the English, even Robert the Bruce was descended from the English Nobility and he is their biggest hero. And even their name for themselves, "Scotts", was from an Irish tribe that established themselves in SW Scotland, thus giving their name to the region.

The genitic make up of the Scotch is a mixture of Pure Bread Scandinavian in the Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland, while most of the Lowlands decend from the English and the South West is of Irish descent. Dont these people do any research?

If the Scotch love of Scotland is so dear to them then why do so many reside in England, the home of their most hated foe? Because they can have a better life than living up in the Glens i suppose.

And while were on the subject, why would you use the language of a Race that you detest so much when you have one of your own, to much trouble to learn or too hard? unlike the Welsh and Irish who have a unique culture and language and are prepared to put in the effort to make sure that their culture is kept going through the generations. No wonder they are a Small Minded people, they have no vision or worth of themselves, only their hatred for the English drives them, sad really.

Sorry about that, Rant over, Regards, Danny

[Rorer714]

Hi 'the queen without a king'

Total Bollocks, "Boil in the Bag Meat" was probably brought over here by the Romans, even the Red Indians had it before the Scotch.

Everything the Scotch have they nicked it from some other civilisation, Whisky from Rome, Kilts and Bag Pipes from Ireland, Tartan was thrust upon them by the English, even Robert the Bruce was descended from the English Nobility and he is their biggest hero. And even their name for themselves, "Scotts", was from an Irish tribe that established themselves in SW Scotland, thus giving their name to the region.

The genitic make up of the Scotch is a mixture of Pure Bread Scandinavian in the Hebrides, Orkney and Shetland, while most of the Lowlands decend from the English and the South West is of Irish descent. Dont these people do any research?

If the Scotch love of Scotland is so dear to them then why do so many reside in England, the home of their most hated foe? Because they can have a better life than living up in the Glens i suppose.

And while were on the subject, why would you use the language of a Race that you detest so much when you have one of your own, to much trouble to learn or too hard? unlike the Welsh and Irish who have a unique culture and language and are prepared to put in the effort to make sure that their culture is kept going through the generations. No wonder they are a Small Minded people, they have no vision or worth of themselves, only their hatred for the English drives them, sad really.

Sorry about that, Rant over, Regards, Danny

Geez! Don't tellem' how you REALLY feel Danny!

[BIGDAN]

Geez! Don't tellem' how you REALLY feel Danny!

Hi Rorer,

Sorry mate got a bit carried away there, still it entertains the troops doesnt it.

But that is how i really feel, my own government is run by and is full of Scotch MPs even though they have their own Parlaiment, my TV and Radio is full of Scotch Talking Wannabees, as actors they make all their money from other countries, Billy Connolly and Sean Connery wont even live in Scotland, and they all give the impression that Scotland is the Greatest Country in the World to be born in but the worst to live and work in.

They keep going on about How the English Treated the Scotch all those years ago but forget (or arent taught) at the same time it was the Scotch along with their Irish counterparts who after the Romans left England in the 5th century AD were the first people to attack and raid the defenceless People of England, now they have a chip on their shoulder about all the ills that the English have done to them, i say this "tough mate, what goes around comes around" and thats exactly what happened to you lot, so get over it already, you were a bunch of Bullying Savages in the 5th Century AD and your exactly the same now, only difference now is that you whine a whole lot more than you did them.

Got a bit carried away again there Rorer, but i haven got anything against the Scotch, except their whingeing and their, i could go on bit i wont.

Kind Regards, Danny

[ally]

It's OK Danny Boy. We still Luv ya

[Ronniedawg]

I dunno....organ meat stuffed into another organ sounds French, or Greek to me.

I am Scottish/Irish descent, I wear my kilt, I like Haggis but bring hot sauce with me when I do eat it.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

I too have Scot blood in me (on mom's side), but how or why is not of my concern but that I am and I don't care what other's say.

[Mangani]

Hi Rorer,

Sorry mate got a bit carried away there, still it entertains the troops doesnt it.

But that is how i really feel, my own government is run by and is full of Scotch MPs even though they have their own Parlaiment, my TV and Radio is full of Scotch Talking Wannabees, as actors they make all their money from other countries, Billy Connolly and Sean Connery wont even live in Scotland, and they all give the impression that Scotland is the Greatest Country in the World to be born in but the worst to live and work in.

Yeah but ya gotta admit.......Bill Shankly was the fecking bee's bollocks. Although I would like to kick Alex Ferguson right smack bang centre in the middle of that bright red hooter of his.

[ally]

Well, we did give you lot this

[BIGDAN]

It's OK Danny Boy. We still Luv ya

Ally Bumaye Ally Bumaye,

As i duz you all mate, i just dont like "Moaners" thats all, and those Scotch do nothing but bloody "MOAN" mate, when their not "A roamin in the gloamin" that is. Or is that "A roamin in the gloomin"

Still there is hope for them, they might get full independence, pay their own way, take back all their unwanted, (Esp their MPs and Celebs and TV personalities) contribute in rebuilding Hadrians Wall and leave us English alone so as we can vent our rage at some other unfortunate Race that might just get under our skin as they have done for Centuries.

(Thats Hundreds of Years in case anyone didnt know)

And i can think of quite a few already.

Regards, Danny

[Evster2012]

Must admit Danny, this thread has me laughing my ass off! Naught against Scots, but this shit is funny! Arguing over a haggis! It's like a Texan claiming he invented Buffalo Wings!

Well I may have invented washing them down with Guinness! Or not! Tastes way the fuck better than a haggis!

[BIGDAN]

Yeah but ya gotta admit.......Bill Shankly was the fecking bee's bollocks. Although I would like to kick Alex Ferguson right smack bang centre in the middle of that bright red hooter of his.

Hi 'Mangani'

I admit it mate, Bill Shankly, from humble Working Class Beginnings in Glenbuck to World Stardom at Liverpool, the epitome of what a Football Manager should/could/would be.

Brian Clough is the nearest thing that England ever produced that could rival Shanks, with Fergi its all been about money and buying success, give me the Old Ways/Days anyday mate.

Good luck mate and lets see you get something out of this season and stick two fingers up to Old Moneybags, sorry that was an English expression, oops

Regards, Danny

[BIGDAN]

Must admit Danny, this thread has me laughing my ass off! Naught against Scots, but this shit is funny! Arguing over a haggis! It's like a Texan claiming he invented Buffalo Wings!

Well I may have invented washing them down with Guinness! Or not! Tastes way the fuck better than a haggis!

Hi Ev,

You gotta say "Scotch" mate whenever calling their name, it gets right up their "Kilts" so it does, to be sure.

But in reality they are Good People (so i'm told), its only the ones that i've met that are "Moaners" i suppose, and thats quite a lot, i even have them in my family, and they all owe me money thats never been returned but thats another story.

But to be true and honest they must be really clever, to get past English Passport Control, get to London, get a House, find a Pub that will serve them, take over all the Spare Park Benches, "Draw the Dole" better than any English Artist, and all this without ever "Working for a Living" is truely amazing and Worthy of at least "Forceable Repatriation" at no cost to the said person.

Regards, Danny

PS, I have nothing whatsoever against Texicans, nothing at all, just wanted you kind people to know that, (esp you ZFF, your A-OK in my book mate. )

PPS, Did you know that with all the Scotch immigration that has gone on over the years,Southern England is sinking in to the Sea while scotland is Rising out of the Sea, so if you would be so kind, take the hint and

Below is a Typical Scotchman, lives abroad and rarely returns home while always proclaiming his Love for Scotland and its Values while at the same time Putting England Down at every opportunity, dont you just Love the Hypocrisy?

Regards, Danny

[longdistancewinner]

Hi 'Mangani'

I admit it mate, Bill Shankly, from humble Working Class Beginnings in Glenbuck to World Stardom at Liverpool, the epitome of what a Football Manager should/could/would be.

Brian Clough is the nearest thing that England ever produced that could rival Shanks, with Fergi its all been about money and buying success, give me the Old Ways/Days anyday mate.

Good luck mate and lets see you get something out of this season and stick two fingers up to Old Moneybags, sorry that was an English expression, oops

Regards, Danny

Brian Clough was the best England manager we never had. Amazing man. But I'm bound to say that...

[BIGDAN]

Brian Clough was the best England manager we never had. Amazing man. But I'm bound to say that...

Hi LDW,

You are so right again, and what Brian Clough did, he did with good management skills, no money, vast knowledge and the Man Management of Peter Taylor, without whome he faltered.

If he could have lost the accent and spoke "Cockney" he would have been made a Saint already.

Regards, Danny

[longdistancewinner]

Hi LDW,

You are so right again, and what Brian Clough did, he did with good management skills, no money, vast knowledge and the Man Management of Peter Taylor, without whome he faltered.

If he could have lost the accent and spoke "Cockney" he would have been made a Saint already.

Regards, Danny

Brian Clough and Peter Taylor were legends. Brian's eldest lad owns a newsagents near town, and my mother remembers taken my brother and I up the high street, when, suddenly, out Brian came. He walked into my brother, patted his head, and said, 'Hello, young man.'

Peter Taylor lived a few miles away from me. My dad would see him in our village often buying his papers. When he died the village was swamped with past/present footballers attending his funeral.

In Nottingham Brian's a Saint already. There's a statue of him in our town square.

[BIGDAN]

In Nottingham Brian's a Saint already. There's a statue of him in our town square.

Hi LDW,

And so there should be, the man was so underated and underused by his Country, well the FA to be sure, a true Churchillian in my book, if only, arghhhhh!!!!

Regards, Danny

[Hotplant]

Below is a Typical Scotchman, dont you just Love the Hypocrisy?

,

Dunno, but they sure are lookers.

Regards,

HP

ps: not something I would be proudly defending as the inventor...YUK!

[Mangani]

Hi 'Mangani'

I admit it mate, Bill Shankly, from humble Working Class Beginnings in Glenbuck to World Stardom at Liverpool, the epitome of what a Football Manager should/could/would be.

Aye. Whereas Brian Clough was also a great manager there were a lot of people who didn't care for him as a man/person. That's why he was called Ol' Big Head. Of course, now he's passed away you hardly ever hear a bad word about him but to be sure, back in the day Cloughie rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way with his ego and attitude. Still a great manager though. We used to sing 'Cloughie for England' on the Kop.

Shanks, on the other hand, was universally liked/admired as a man as well as a manager. Same with Matt Busby.

If he could have lost the accent and spoke "Cockney" he would have been made a Saint already.

It's amazing how Terry Venables is lauded in this country..............and he achieved practically nothing by comparison.

Good luck mate and lets see you get something out of this season and stick two fingers up to Old Moneybags, sorry that was an English expression,

Off to a bad start already. Feck it!

Anyway, great thread Danny. Very funny.

I used to work for London Transport. Full of Scots, oooops I mean Scotch people there. They've taken over the place. The Irish too.

[BIGDAN]

Aye. Whereas Brian Clough was also a great manager there were a lot of people who didn't care for him as a man/person. That's why he was called Ol' Big Head. Of course, now he's passed away you hardly ever hear a bad word about him but to be sure, back in the day Cloughie rubbed a lot of people up the wrong way with his ego and attitude. Still a great manager though. We used to sing 'Cloughie for England' on the Kop.

Sir Brian was called a "Big Head" thats true, but lets not forget that he could do exactly what he set out to do, he knew how to win, how to disipline his players, how to get 110% out of players that other Big Clubs wouldnt touch and make a World beating team out of mediocure players, and where he played his trump card was the use of Co-Manager Peter taylor, the only Man that could be the other side of the coin that Sir Brian wasent, and that makes him a Genius and the Best British Manager of all Time.

He rubbed people up the wrong way because he knew they were either incompitent at their jobs or because they were delebrately trying to oppose him or get in his way, he was light years ahead of the pack at this time and the FA had an Old Guard that was a team of Old Boys Club Types who wanted neither Change or Trophys and Sir Brian would have thrown the lot of them out on their arses to get England to another World Cup Win and they wanted to be the Centre of Attention rather than let Sir Brian have any Glory. Shits the lot of them.

I would love to have seen Sir Brian Manage Liverpool, the possibilities, but i fear that it would have ended just as it did at Leeds, but to take Two Clubs from nowhere, Derby County and Nottingham Forest, both to win the Football League and Two "Back to Back" European Cups is/was awesome.

Shanks, on the other hand, was universally liked/admired as a man as well as a manager. Same with Matt Busby.

But neither, nor anyone else, could claim Sir Brians Title of "Greatest British Football Manager of all Time" because no one has won Back to Back European Cups like he did, not even Fergi has done that and thats what really nags at him, he is only half the manager that Sir Brian was.

It's amazing how Terry Venables is lauded in this country..............and he achieved practically nothing by comparison.

Terry Venables is a Great Coach but as an England manager he didnt give the 150% you need to give, and this was due to his Business Troubles of the time, give him his due, he did some great work at Barcelona.

Off to a bad start already. Feck it!

Youll be there at the end though, i know that for sure.

Anyway, great thread Danny. Very funny.

Thanks, wouldnt be the same without your comments though.

I used to work for London Transport. Full of Scots, oooops I mean Scotch people there. They've taken over the place. The Irish too.

You know i used to work for the GPO, Inland Section, 2000+ Posties, every type of Nationality you could think of, i met many Scotts their and all were nice decent people, much better than the ones i call Family, but when they get pissed all the Old Bollocks about hating the English would come out, but none could tell you why they hated the English only that their Dad and his Dad and their Uncle and every Scottsman they would ever encounter told them it was Tradition to hate the Sassenach.

And thats why i riddicule them, feel sorry for them, and torment them at every oppotunity, because they still want to Hate rather than Love the English. They will always be a "Small People" untill they change their ways and except that the English have always been Better at War, Sport, Economics, and the Art of Lovemaking than the Scotch will ever be.

Must be the cold climate, the Kilt and no undies, aye.

Regards, MacDaniels, ya Sassenach baste ye.

[I have got a horsey]

lol, I can't think of too much that's ever come from Scotland that's remotely interesting apart from Franz Ferdinand!

I mean bag pipes sound like shit, Haggis tastes like shit, Scotch Eggs are shit, and golf is as boring as all shit...

And Whisky? Whisky looks and tastes like piss!

[Mangani]

I would love to have seen Sir Brian Manage Liverpool, the possibilities,

Liverpool didn't need Cloughie though. They had Bob Paisley. The possibilities were reached with Bob.

Man Utd were the club in the 1970s/1980s who needed Cloughie.

but i fear that it would have ended just as it did at Leeds, but to take Two Clubs from nowhere, Derby County and Nottingham Forest, both to win the Football League and Two "Back to Back" European Cups is/was awesome.

Yes it was awesome and will never be repeated. I think he went on too long though and his last decade was disappointing without Taylor next to him..

But neither, nor anyone else, could claim Sir Brians Title of "Greatest British Football Manager of all Time" because no one has won Back to Back European Cups like he did, not even Fergi has done that and thats what really nags at him, he is only half the manager that Sir Brian was.

Bob Paisley won back to back European Cups (1977 and 1978) before Clough did. Indeed, Paisley also won the UEFA Cup in 1976 so he had three years on the trot of winning major European trophies. Bob Paisley still remains the ONLY manager (British or otherwise) who won 3 European Cups (he won his 3rd in 1981).

Bob Paisley engineered the most successful period of any British football club. He didn't just carry on where Shankly left off. He vastly improved on the success. Liverpool were not champions when Bob took over and they had never won the European Cup. Paisley doesn't get the credit he deserves. Like Taylor was to Clough, Paisley was Shank's right hand man all throughout the 1960s.

Thanks, wouldnt be the same without your comments though.

Cheers. You should start another thread about the Irish LOL.

You know i used to work for the GPO, Inland Section, 2000+ Posties, every type of Nationality you could think of, i met many Scotts their and all were nice decent people, much better than the ones i call Family, but when they get pissed all the Old Bollocks about hating the English would come out, but none could tell you why they hated the English only that their Dad and his Dad and their Uncle and every Scottsman they would ever encounter told them it was Tradition to hate the Sassenach.

Yeah it all goes back to Culluden and Bannokburn or whatnot. Bizaare really.

And thats why i riddicule them, feel sorry for them, and torment them at every oppotunity, because they still want to Hate rather than Love the English. They will always be a "Small People"

That's why the Romans only needed a wall 3ft high to keep them out.

[BIGDAN]

Liverpool didn't need Cloughie though. They had Bob Paisley. The possibilities were reached with Bob.

Totally agree mate.

Man Utd were the club in the 1970s/1980s who needed Cloughie.

Glad they didnt get him eh?

Yes it was awesome and will never be repeated. I think he went on too long though and his last decade was disappointing without Taylor next to him..

You're not wrong, again.

Bob Paisley won back to back European Cups (1977 and 1978) before Clough did. Indeed, Paisley also won the UEFA Cup in 1976 so he had three years on the trot of winning major European trophies. Bob Paisley still remains the ONLY manager (British or otherwise) who won 3 European Cups (he won his 3rd in 1981).

Indeed he did, although Sir Brian didnt win as much as Sir Bob, Sir Brian achieved what he did with far less to start with, but i take nothing away from Sir Bob and salute him as the most sucessful manager in English Football History.

Bob Paisley engineered the most successful period of any British football club. He didn't just carry on where Shankly left off. He vastly improved on the success. Liverpool were not champions when Bob took over and they had never won the European Cup. Paisley doesn't get the credit he deserves. Like Taylor was to Clough, Paisley was Shank's right hand man all throughout the 1960s.

Sir Bob certainly was the Man, never to be bettered.

Cheers. You should start another thread about the Irish LOL.

How can i start on the Irish when I havent even finished with the Scotch yet, and i havent even started with the Welsh.

Yeah it all goes back to Culluden and Bannokburn or whatnot. Bizaare really.

It goes way back further than that, goes back to when the Romans left England and the Scotch, Irish and the Welshers thought they could run roughshod over England, although England wasnt in existance yet, it was the Romano-Britons then.

Anyway the Scotch keep comming south to do a bit of Sheep Rusteling and met up with a bunch of Welshers doing the same, so they decieded to team up. Between them they had rustled a few hundred sheep when low and behold some Anglo-Saxon Mercenaries that the Romano-Briton King had hired turned up.

Now the Scotch as usual had no stomatch for an even fight and took off in to the hills, the Welshers shouted to the Scotch, "Hey, what about the Sheep" to which the Scotch shouted back "Fuck the Sheep" which leads me on to the "Sheep Shaging Welsh" very nicely.

That's why the Romans only needed a wall 3ft high to keep them out.

It might be 3ft now but in them days it was 4ft 6in, those Scotch were Big Bastards in those days mate, must be that Romano-English Hagis they used to steal from us that gave then all that Strenght and Height.

Regards, Danny