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lzzoso

Led Zeppelin and "Drugs"

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Opium is highly addictive.

At the time, I did not know that. We had just started learning about hallucinogens in our school health class. We didn't learn about opiates until later.

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At the time, I did not know that. We had just started learning about hallucinogens in our school health class. We didn't learn about opiates until later.

When I was 5 years old sitting at the dinner table I recall a conversation among the adults about the best way to ease the pain experienced by arthritis patients. One of those present was a nurse. I remember hearing her remark that you could not use codeine for arthritis pain because it was made from opium and was extremely addictive.

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I've often referred to HOTG as "expensive toilet paper". In fact I think I might have coined the phrase! :lol: Seriously! It goes back many years. It might have actually been me! :lol:

And I have no problem with anyone who enjoys the read. Lord knows I did! Many times. I ate, slept and breathed that book for years! And I liked it! LOVED it! I just came to a point where I realized it was a sensationalized version of Led Zeppelin. Mostly true, but stretched in ways. Here and there liberties were taken that skewed the reality for the benefit of making a good and thrilling read. But sooner or later, you have to back up from the table and realize this was the chef's creation for your pleasure. And you wonder if what you just ate was genuine nutritious food, or just some really tasty crap?

I'll never slag off Hammer of the Gods, purely and simply because it's entertaining. It's a good old-fashioned rock n'roll morality tale at its core, and it would have made a great cheesy novel if Davis had simply altered the names and thrown in some dialogue for good measure.

As for whether it was true or not, it didn't really matter; it was more or less responsible for making Led Zeppelin interesting to a whole new audience, at a time when they were in danger of being forgotten.

The Eighties/early Nineties was a great era for the sensationalist rock biography. The Lives of John Lennon by Albert Goldman was another interesting and highly controversial book. The Stanley Booth book about the Rolling Stones and Altamont, and the other one by Tony Sanchez. Good times!

Edited by The Baroness Von Zeppelin

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I'll never slag off Hammer of the Gods, purely and simply because it's entertaining. It's a good old-fashioned rock n'roll morality tale at its core, and it would have made a great cheesy novel if Davis had simply altered the names and thrown in some dialogue for good measure.

As for whether it was true or not, it didn't really matter; it was more or less responsible for making Led Zeppelin interesting to a whole new audience, at a time when they were in danger of being forgotten.

The Eighties/early Nineties was a great era for the sensationalist rock biography. The Lives of John Lennon by Albert Goldman was another interesting and highly controversial book. The Stanley Booth book about the Rolling Stones and Altamont, and the other one by Tony Sanchez. Good times!

I will because it hurt the band members and broke trusts and such. To me there was no point in it. The stories were already out there and who cares if it happened or not. It was all about the music IMO. I just think the whole book was in really poor taste.

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I'll never slag off Hammer of the Gods, purely and simply because it's entertaining. It's a good old-fashioned rock n'roll morality tale at its core, and it would have made a great cheesy novel if Davis had simply altered the names and thrown in some dialogue for good measure.

As for whether it was true or not, it didn't really matter; it was more or less responsible for making Led Zeppelin interesting to a whole new audience, at a time when they were in danger of being forgotten.

The Eighties/early Nineties was a great era for the sensationalist rock biography. The Lives of John Lennon by Albert Goldman was another interesting and highly controversial book. The Stanley Booth book about the Rolling Stones and Altamont, and the other one by Tony Sanchez. Good times!

There's no doubt that it packs a punch when it comes to the entertainment aspect of the book, but it's marketed on being a 'biography'. If half of it is sensationalist to downright non-existant, it's going to disappoint a lot of fans. People (me) would've bought that book on the assumption that it told the truth to one of rock's biggest successes. There was no internet back then. People did not have the luxury of getting as much access to Zeppelin as they do now. Whilst there's no doubt that plenty would've bought the book because of the wild excess stories they may have heard, plenty would've bought it to read/learn about the music. It was basically a paperback version of some would-be gossip blog; all neatly packed into so many hundred-odd pages, with a smattering of factoids here and there. Davis used those sensationalist stories to mask his own ineptitude as a writer.

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When I was 5 years old sitting at the dinner table I recall a conversation among the adults about the best way to ease the pain experienced by arthritis patients. One of those present was a nurse. I remember hearing her remark that you could not use codeine for arthritis pain because it was made from opium and was extremely addictive.

...growing up in North India, this was given to the farm workers, (yes, including ours) as kids we always new that "farm workers" had habit of it...witnessed many addictions, for example, a female farm worker sold everything, including the cotton from her pillow to support her habit...

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HOTG reminds me so much of True Confessions Magazine.

True Confessions is a confession magazine targeted at young women readers. It was originally published by Fawcett Publications, beginning in 1922.

With a cover price of 25 cents, the front cover of the October, 1922, issue heralded, "Our Thousand Dollar Prize Winner—'All Hell Broke Loose'."

Trueconfess.jpg

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There's no doubt that it packs a punch when it comes to the entertainment aspect of the book, but it's marketed on being a 'biography'. If half of it is sensationalist to downright non-existant, it's going to disappoint a lot of fans. People (me) would've bought that book on the assumption that it told the truth to one of rock's biggest successes. There was no internet back then. People did not have the luxury of getting as much access to Zeppelin as they do now. Whilst there's no doubt that plenty would've bought the book because of the wild excess stories they may have heard, plenty would've bought it to read/learn about the music. It was basically a paperback version of some would-be gossip blog; all neatly packed into so many hundred-odd pages, with a smattering of factoids here and there. Davis used those sensationalist stories to mask his own ineptitude as a writer.

Gee, it's been a long time since I read it but I'm hard pressed to think of any blatant lies in the book. I believe most of the stories have been substantiated in one way or another. The dialog may be a tad different but the song remains the same :blink:

I'm sure I'm wrong since so many have the other opinion but let's dissect it? Which stories exactly are false or sensationalized and what was sensationalized about them?

P.S. This Q isn't directed at you alone LDS, anyone who knows different is encouraged to jump in!

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Well it may have made more sense for him to do a bump BEFORE Moby Dick. My experience anyway.

I'm sure it was both, he was probably replenishing after the marathon session :)

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As far as the HOTG and STH books, for those who are interested in reading about what sorts of hell-raising antics took place during the band's U.S. tours, there are many truths in each book. People who were around the band during those years who were witnesses/participants to the events described in the books can tell you that there are many more things that happened that weren't even included in these books.

These books are, IMO, not especially well-written and their focus is on the "salacious" and "sensational" aspects of the band members rather than on their music. I don't think either author had an interest in writing a "serious" study of the band and its music. These books fall, as some noted, into an entertainment/tabloid category – and, be it rock, politics, sports, etc., there will always be a market for such books.

When those books were released I don't think the band members (or their families) cared for the "tone" of the books or the fact that certain things were made public that the band members probably would have preferred to keep private. However, as far as I know, no legal action was taken against the authors (or the people interviewed) for writing or publishing false information. Grant and Ertegun were witnesses to many of the things that transpired during the Zep guys' "hammer of the gods" days but neither of them chose to write about those things and I've always respected them for that.

Which stories exactly are false or sensationalized and what was sensationalized about them?

What is true and what isn't? There are many people who witnessed/participated in the"antics" with the Zep guys and they know the answers to those questions. Those people, though, have moved on to live completely different lives and they have no intention of ever writing or talking publicly about those days.

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I feel the starting of HOTG with the legend of soul selling at the crossroads, and disembodied souls leaving the hall when Paganini played sets the tone for the book. The truth is, most of the book's content can be found in Ritchie Yorke's Led Zeppelin Biography, without the spin. There's nothing new or unique in Davis' book that hadn't already been written in a much more respectable and honest fashion. I know they were bad boys, but HOTG lacks balance. Led Zeppelin was also about music. Davis misses that. His Aerosmith and Guns and Roses books are no different. If there were no women or drugs, Davis would have nothing to write about.

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I feel the starting of HOTG with the legend of soul selling at the crossroads, and disembodied souls leaving the hall when Paganini played sets the tone for the book. The truth is, most of the book's content can be found in Ritchie Yorke's Led Zeppelin Biography, without the spin. There's nothing new or unique in Davis' book that hadn't already been written in a much more respectable and honest fashion. I know they were bad boys, but HOTG lacks balance. Led Zeppelin was also about music. Davis misses that. His Aerosmith and Guns and Roses books are no different. If there were no women or drugs, Davis would have nothing to write about.

...in a way this leads to speculation just how accurate R. Yorkie is on the first place...I have been trying to establish the las vegas possible concert date, and Yorkie is suggesting Page existed via Salt Lake City to New York..well, it doesn't make sense..there was no concert date on Aug. 11, 1969 in Salt Lake City...believe me, I have seen and REVIEWED all of the dates, 1969 in detail...I realize R. Yorkie is a close friend of the Band, but I think he is not that accurate either...

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I guess I have a different perspective on HOTG because I wasn't a huge Zeppelin fan when I first read it in the late 1980s (had nothing against them, I was just into different bands then). It was just one of those biographies that you read because you heard about the dirt. So because I had no real sense of attachment to the band, I was able to read HOTG from a critical distance. If my first exposure to HOTG had happened ten years later, with the added benefit of hindsight, knowledge and maturity, I would probably be just as appalled by it as most of you.

I was 15, and a bit immature; bearing in mind that it was the 1980s, and the charts were full of mulletted muppets who claimed that they touched nothing stronger than Evian water. Then next thing I know, I'm reading about this band that seemed shrouded in mystery, who had kinky sex and did truckloads of drugs and MAY have practiced black magic to get where they were. It all sounded so decadent and exotic and potent to a 15 year old, and a far cry from what the music industry seemed to have become. I'd listened to some of the music by then (my mother had the albums) but I wasn't yet at the stage where I could begin to truly appeciate the band's accomplishments. Like I said, I was in a slightly different place musically at the time.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that although I can understand nowadays why many fans consider the book to be contentious and hurtful, I have an odd sort of sentiment for the feeling of exhilaration it instilled in me when I read it for the very first time. If that makes sense!

Edited by The Baroness Von Zeppelin

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...in a way this leads to speculation just how accurate R. Yorkie is on the first place...I have been trying to establish the las vegas possible concert date, and Yorkie is suggesting Page existed via Salt Lake City to New York..well, it doesn't make sense..there was no concert date on Aug. 11, 1969 in Salt Lake City...believe me, I have seen and REVIEWED all of the dates, 1969 in detail...I realize R. Yorkie is a close friend of the Band, but I think he is not that accurate either...

Yorke does not say there was a gig in Salt Lake City on August 11, and he doesn't even mention that particular date at all. Where do you get it from? Presumably Jimmy flew in to NYC from Salt Lake City on July 30, for a few hours only, mixing Bring it on Home with Eddie Kramer. And Yorke was there. On the day after, all the band were present at a ceremony in Oregon, which is why Jimmy came alone and why he had to leave NYC very quickly. So, in short, there is no problem with this story.

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Ifeel the starting of HOTG with the legend of soul selling at thecrossroads, and disembodied souls leaving the hall when Paganini playedsets the tone for the book. The truth is, most of the book's contentcan be found in Ritchie Yorke's Led Zeppelin Biography, without thespin. There's nothing new or unique in Davis' book that hadn't alreadybeen written in a much more respectable and honest fashion. I know theywere bad boys, but HOTG lacks balance. Led Zeppelin was also aboutmusic. Davis misses that. His Aerosmith and Guns and Roses books are nodifferent. If there were no women or drugs, Davis would have nothing towrite about.

To be honest, I don't remember the soul selling/Paganini scenario but, although I've read excerpts, I only read HOTG and STH once, when they were first released. I know I would have quickly skimmed over those parts because when those books were published, I wasn't even a Zep fan any more and I didn't pay too much attention to a lot of what was written in them. I just now went to look for the books to reread certain parts and when I couldn't find them I remembered that I had given them, along with several other rock books, including Yorke's, to my son.

I guess I have a different perspective on HOTG because I wasn't a huge Zeppelin fan when I first read it in the late 1980s (had nothing against them, I was just into different bands then). It was just one of those biographies that you read because you heard about the dirt. So because I had no real sense of attachment to the band, I was able to read HOTG from a critical distance. If my first exposure to HOTG had happened ten years later, I would probably be just as appalled as most of you.

I was also 15, and a bit immature; bearing in mind that it was the 1980s, and the charts were full of mulletted muppets who claimed that they touched nothing stronger than Evian water. Then next thing I know, I'm reading about this band that seemed shrouded in mystery, who had kinky sex and did truckloads of drugs and MAY have practiced black magic to get where they were. It all sounded so decadent and exotic and potent to a 15 year old, and a far cry from what the music industry seemed to have become. I'd listened to some of the music by then (my mother had the albums) but I wasn't yet at the stage where I could begin to truly appeciate the band's accomplishments. Like I said, I was in a slightly different place musically at the time.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that although I can understand nowadays why many fans consider the book to be contentious and hurtful, I have an odd sort of sentiment for the feeling of exhilaration it instilled in me when I read it for the very first time. If that makes sense!

Barnoness, it was very interesting for me to read about your background and first exposure to Zep and the HOTG book. I think that, based on our own experiences, we will probably all have different or slightly different perspectives on HOTG. There were some things in the book that I did find contentious and hurtful (particularly the portrayal of John Bonham). I don't remember being terribly upset by it but I do remember feeling sad and thinking that John's family must have felt hurt as there was an entirely different side of him that was left out of the book. Now, though, when I read old articles about LZ's days on the road, I do feel a passing sense of nostalgia for that time. Rereading that book might make me feel that way too.

Edited by MadScreamingGallery

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As far as the HOTG and STH books, for those who are interested in reading about what sorts of hell-raising antics took place during the band's U.S. tours, there are many truths in each book. People who were around the band during those years who were witnesses/participants to the events described in the books can tell you that there are many more things that happened that weren't even included in these books.

These books are, IMO, not especially well-written and their focus is on the "salacious" and "sensational" aspects of the band members rather than on their music. I don't think either author had an interest in writing a "serious" study of the band and its music. These books fall, as some noted, into an entertainment/tabloid category – and, be it rock, politics, sports, etc., there will always be a market for such books.

When those books were released I don't think the band members (or their families) cared for the "tone" of the books or the fact that certain things were made public that the band members probably would have preferred to keep private. However, as far as I know, no legal action was taken against the authors (or the people interviewed) for writing or publishing false information. Grant and Ertegun were witnesses to many of the things that transpired during the Zep guys' "hammer of the gods" days but neither of them chose to write about those things and I've always respected them for that.

What is true and what isn't? There are many people who witnessed/participated in the"antics" with the Zep guys and they know the answers to those questions. Those people, though, have moved on to live completely different lives and they have no intention of ever writing or talking publicly about those days.

:) Hey Mad.

My lips are sealed.

;)

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Yorke does not say there was a gig in Salt Lake City on August 11, and he doesn't even mention that particular date at all. Where do you get it from? Presumably Jimmy flew in to NYC from Salt Lake City on July 30, for a few hours only, mixing Bring it on Home with Eddie Kramer. And Yorke was there. On the day after, all the band were present at a ceremony in Oregon, which is why Jimmy came alone and why he had to leave NYC very quickly. So, in short, there is no problem with this story.

...there is on-going Las Vegas Live Thread, and not to derail this thread....back to topic....

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...there is on-going Las Vegas Live Thread, and not to derail this thread....back to topic....

Thanks, I just read it, and yet, in my copy of his book Yorke still does not mention Jimmy flying to NYC on August 11. ;)

By the way, the band were in Oregon on July 31, and not Las Vegas. Simply consult The Concert File to see this.

Edited by Otto Masson

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Thanks, I just read it, and yet, in my copy of his book Yorke still does not mention Jimmy flying to NYC on August 11. ;)

By the way, the band were in Oregon on July 31, and not Las Vegas. Simply consult The Concert File to see this.

...well, I do not have the Original Yorkie'76 book...facts were presented to me..

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His Aerosmith and Guns and Roses books are no different. If there were no women or drugs, Davis would have nothing to write about.

Walk This Way is better because the members of Aerosmith do most of the talking.....

In My Opinion.......;)

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To be honest, I don't remember the soul selling/Paganini scenario but, although I've read excerpts, I only read HOTG and STH once, when they were first released. I know I would have quickly skimmed over those parts because when those books were published, I wasn't even a Zep fan any more and I didn't pay too much attention to a lot of what was written in them. I just now went to look for the books to reread certain parts and when I couldn't find them I remembered that I had given them, along with several other rock books, including Yorke's, to my son.

Barnoness, it was very interesting for me to read about your background and first exposure to Zep and the HOTG book. I think that, based on our own experiences, we will probably all have different or slightly different perspectives on HOTG. There were some things in the book that I did find contentious and hurtful (particularly the portrayal of John Bonham). I don't remember being terribly upset by it but I do remember feeling sad and thinking that John's family must have felt hurt as there was an entirely different side of him that was left out of the book. Now, though, when I read old articles about LZ's days on the road, I do feel a passing sense of nostalgia for that time. Rereading that book might make me feel that way too.

Hehe, I don't remember that part either :) I found the books interesting when taken as a 'perspective' knowing that there are multi facets to every person and every situation. The more books I read the more perspectives I see and therefore a more balanced picture. I certainly agree, these books are more entertainment than deep. I just, being the Libra that I am, put the question out there to be provacative because so many people like to 'pretend' these things never happened. Like butter wouldn't melt in Zepps mouths. Just doing a reality check.

MSG, I realize that some people close to the friends, family, and bandmembers probably read the negative and it sticks in their mind a lot more than the casual readers mind. It's like if someone says "So and so (that I dont' know) is a real asshole" - I don't care! Now if they say "So and So (that I DO know) is an asshole" I'm a lot more indignant and insulted.

As someone who never knew John or his family or friends, I took all of that stuff with a grain of salt. So, he could be a jerk when he was drunk. I don't know a lot of people that aren't, some to more or less degrees. Personally, I can be a real jerk and have really stopped drinking for that and other reasons. But I think most people also know about Johns kindness, his sense of humor, and his sense of fun! His positive traits more than make up for any negative.

Funny, todays books, written by the subjects themselves are much more honest. I just finished reading Heroin Diaries and I also read Slash's book, Claptons autobiography, etc. They are more than willing to share the negative parts of their lives and I really have a lot of respect for them becuase they are confident that the negatives are not the defining factors.

I apologize to anyone I've rubbed the wrong way. I wouldn't bring the topic up myself but since it was brought up....and kinda pooh poohed, I did have to do that reality check. The guys are mortals after all. (Well, except for Jimmy, :lol:)

Love, Light and Peace

:hippy:

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Walk This Way is better because the members of Aerosmith do most of the talking.....

In My Opinion.......;)

Putting that one on my list! :D

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It appears that the majority of rock bands do or did drugs, it's part of the lifestyle. The difference with Zeppelin is that unlike other bands drugs never affected their performance. The only dodgy performance I can think of is the '88 performance in which Jimmy supposedly drank too much before going on stage.

Although it was prevalent back in the day I tend to believe everything we do is a personal choice.wink.gif

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