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But the fact that he might not want to put any effort in to a relationship, and may not reciprocate anything at all is highly indicative of low self-esteem, because usually the reasoning is "well why bother? I'm only going to be rejected at the end". He may believe inside that there's no reason to put any effort in or reciprocate because he may feel he has nothing to offer that the girl is going to want.

And by saying that he just wants a pretty girl to hang with or go to the movies with and nothing more is also another indication of this.

By not having a serious expectation on a relationship, or even picking someone who is likely to lead to a serious situation, then it takes a lot of pressure off. Because serious expectation or effort could lead to the situation whereby he would actually be in a serious relationship and that would lead to an intensification of rejection fears and of the pressure of having to be someone or something, which, due to his low self-esteem, he may not actually believe he could fulfill.

My guess is that he's consumed with fears. A girl maybe giving him some signs but not giving him her number, that stirs up the fears because he'll probably want absolute 100% proof she likes him, so by not giving the phone number, it'll only encourage the doubting.

So I think, psychologically, the situation is this:

- Self-esteem is too low to have the confidence to approach people

- not giving him your number will only result in paranoia and doubt over what the signals meant, was she just being polite? She must've been, didn't give me her number. This is the fear of rejection.

-He's going to wait a week before he calls because he's worried that the girl is going to think he's desperate, so already he's fixated on the negative outcomes of the situation. This is all related to low self-esteem and rejection fears.

- No compromises means relationship chances are unlikely. And it may be far easier for him to live alone with just the fantasy of being in a relationship. Otherwise going for it and making the compromises puts him in a position where he actually has to be the guy in reality, too much pressure to be, again, what people expect.

- Won't do anything during sex because, again, what happens if he sucks at sex?? She's gonna dump him or laugh at him... Hasn't got the self-esteem to be proactive in bed.

- Says he's not good looking and only wants hot girls. Well walking around town with a hot girl on your arm certainly is good for your self-esteem, it's a type of social validation "look, I must be all right, because she's with me" (and it works, trust me, I've been in that situation). The psychological answer is that by just wanting to be with hot girls, he's making sure that he keeps thing fantasy-focused instead of reality-focused. If, for arguments sake he's not good looking, but only goes for hot girls, then there's less chance of it actually becoming a reality, it'll more than likely just stay a fantasy. And with low self-esteem its easier to live in fantasy than reality.

And also it might be quite easy for him to get a plain jane, but possibly because of his self-esteem and rejection fears, and feeling the psychological need to chase for affection/acceptance, he is not going to respect someone he doesn't have to chase. And with a hot girl, there is more chance for chase, and more chance for rejection.

But I know what you're thinking, if he has rejection fears, why chase someone who's going to reject him?

Well the psychological theory (well mine, at least) is this:

When we are younger, or children or whatever, we learn and understand what relationships are.

For example, if you're a child, and you're parents rejected you or bullied you, then your psychological understanding of what a loving and secure relationship is a relationship where you're being rejected or bullied but seeking love and acceptance.

So as you get older, instead of actually finding and grasping that love and acceptance you were longing for as a child, all you end up doing is replicating the situation you were in when you were younger. Because that new relationship fits the template for the older one.

When people do find that love or acceptance, the relationship can suddenly not feel right, because it does not match the relationship template that you learned as a child or a young adult. And if you were in a bullied or rejected relationship as a child, then that's what your template will be, that's what you'll always be looking for. Not to seek an outcome to that situation, but to replicate it.

It's a theory, probably debatable. but worth thinking about

In the past i have been under the impression a girl liked me in a boyfriend way and i asked for the number and she did not feel that way and i looked like a damn fool. So maybe that's in the back of my mind. And i don't want that to happen again so when they approach or give out their number or whatever i know 100% for sure she is interested. The risk of looking like an idiot isn't there. With the New years girl she was hinting at a number but just not asking for it. And i found that annoying. Because it gave me the impression that she is one of those girls that believes it's the guys job to do that. And i hate that attitude with a passion. I don't believe in gender roles.

I have made compromises with past girlfriends. I have gone to dumb chick flicks and i have held hands in public even though i think it looks silly. And in bed i have done things that weren't my favorite thing to do. But they have to make compromises too and accept the the things i don't like to do and not push it. I have never asked girlfriends to do things they didn't like to do. I expect the same in return. It's only fair. As far as the sex thing. I mentioned here once that i like being on the bottom and it got blown out of proportion that that was all i would do. Not the case.

I have to admit it feels better to be hooked up with a pretty girl than a not so pretty one. And i will envy a guy more if i see him with a babe than if she isn't hot. Have to admit that's true. And you admitted you have felt this way too.

I don't think i am that great looking but i don't want a pretty girl just because i know it won't happen. I have been with pretty girls before. Like a lot of people there just certain looks that i find attractive and looks that i don't.

That's for the well thought out post. I agree with some of it.

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^ Gainsbarre...No, he doesn't want serious relationships, he readily admits that. But that's not what everyone gives him crap about. Take the recent New Years incident for example, I'll recap for you...

- Spats always talks about not wanting to approach at bars, because he doesn't want to be rejected

- Spats was at a New Years party, where he talked to a girl all night, and gathered she was interested in him. She wasn't a "hottie", and was bit of a "plain Jane", but cute.

- At the end of the night when they were saying goodbye, he gathered that she was hoping he'd ask for her number

- Spats wouldn't ask for it, because he felt that if she was interested in him, she should do the asking. He felt she was playing games, and didn't like that.

- Spats' friends gave him grief for not getting the girl's number, when she was clearly interested in him. We all said the same, it was a case where he would not have been rejected and had an easy shot at a date. But Spats said it was against his "principles" to ask for a number from someone who was playing games with him.

- Spats' friend saw the girl a few weeks later, and explained that Spats had been too shy to ask for the number, and the girl gave it to his friend to give to Spats

- Spats was then angry at his friend for making him "look bad", by telling the girl he was shy, when he says that's not the case, it's just that the girl should have asked HIM for his number, and not been playing games

- Spats never called the girl

- It has been about 7 weeks since this incident, and Spats is still on here talking about it.

What's your take on that? Can you see how people would get frustrated with him? He had an easy shot at a phone number and a date, and wouldn't have been rejected which is his greatest fear, but decided he didn't want a girl who couldn't come out and ask for his number, it was against his principles. Amazing, eh?

I guess it's just because i am somewhat disappointed she didn't have a different attitude about that stuuf. because she is a cool girl but that attittude that "it's a man's job" is a total turnoof for me.

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You are so blind. SHE WAS INTERESTED IN YOU. SHE WANTED YOUR NUMBER. YOU SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO HER, RATHER THAN ACT LIKE A DAMN BABY. When are you going to get it through your thick skull that if you're interested in her, and she's interested in you.....just give her your damn number. You have no clue what her attitude is about anything because you were too damn chicken to say anything to her.

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It's not working. IT'S NOT WORKING. So wouldn't you think it's time to try something new? Oh I forgot, you're a bore.

You are right Elizabeth. My life needs a shakeup. I am gonna have to try something different. Maybe that Seinfeld episode is the way to go. :D I shouldn't have listened to my buddies on the weekend and i should have just handed my number out to whatever girl i chatted with at the club.

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You are right Elizabeth. My life needs a shakeup. I am gonna have to try something different. Maybe that Seinfeld episode is the way to go. :D I shouldn't have listened to my buddies on the weekend and i should have just handed my number out to whatever girl i chatted with at the club.

What! have I found a crack in the dam :D

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You are right Elizabeth. My life needs a shakeup. I am gonna have to try something different. Maybe that Seinfeld episode is the way to go. :D I shouldn't have listened to my buddies on the weekend and i should have just handed my number out to whatever girl i chatted with at the club.

I've been observing your dating dilemma from a distance and wondered if I may now offer some advice? Ditch your buddies!! At least for an evening or two of club hopping. Go solo, experiment with different approaches. Some will work, some will not. You will learn how to read the female mind and make adjustments as needed and sometimes on a moments notice.

IMPORTANT: Here's a good opening line....."Don't singles bars suck?" Now the chick starts venting to YOU. The most important thing is YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO HER. Let her do the taking. Don't even offer advice, just keep saying yeah, yeah, yeah to her complaints and she will love you for it.

VERY IMPORTANT: Did you know, your friends DON'T want you to meet any chicks to date or get laid? It's true. I always hated it when my friends scored and I went home alone. Just made me feel like a loser. Once again, ditch your buddies.

Edited by JethroTull
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I've been observing your dating dilemma from a distance and wondered if I may now offer some advice? Ditch your buddies!! At least for an evening or two of club hopping. Go solo, experiment with different approaches. Some will work, some will not. You will learn how to read the female mind and make adjustments as needed and sometimes on a moments notice.

IMPORTANT: Here's a good opening line....."Don't singles bars suck?" Now the chick starts venting to YOU. The most important thing is YOU NEED TO LISTEN TO HER. Let her do the taking. Don't even offer advice, just keep saying yeah, yeah, yeah to her complaints and she will love you for it.

The only problem is my single buddies are usually right. They get numbers all the time. But their approach is different than mine. In that they approach. I don't approach. And going to the clubs by yourself is considered a no-no. It does not look very attractive. Ya look better if ya have friends with ya.

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The only problem is my single buddies are usually right. They get numbers all the time. But their approach is different than mine. In that they approach. I don't approach. And going to the clubs by yourself is considered a no-no. It does not look very attractive. Ya look better if ya have friends with ya.

You replied before seeing my update....

Dude, I played the field for a LONG time. Trust me on this.....

VERY IMPORTANT: Did you know, your friends DON'T want you to meet any chicks to date or get laid? It's true. I always hated it when my friends scored and I went home alone. Just made me feel like a loser. Once again, ditch your buddies.

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The only problem is my single buddies are usually right. They get numbers all the time. But their approach is different than mine. In that they approach. I don't approach. And going to the clubs by yourself is considered a no-no. It does not look very attractive. Ya look better if ya have friends with ya.

Girls love meeting guys who are alone!! No buddies to distract you or get you drunk. They have your full attention.

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You are so blind. SHE WAS INTERESTED IN YOU. SHE WANTED YOUR NUMBER. YOU SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO HER, RATHER THAN ACT LIKE A DAMN BABY. When are you going to get it through your thick skull that if you're interested in her, and she's interested in you.....just give her your damn number. You have no clue what her attitude is about anything because you were too damn chicken to say anything to her.

I think she was hinting for me to ask for her number. It was either one . I don't know because she never came out and asked.

I was just going by her actions. And it gave me that impression. If she refused to ask it was probably for that reason.

But you are right. I am not a mind reader.

Edited by spats
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Well i never see anyone alone at these clubs. Everyone is usually in groups.

Dude, Are you a follower or a leader? Go to a NEW club ALONE, one that your dopey buddies don't know about. Sit at the bar and order a drink. Act really depressed. Some chick will see you and take pity, she will start talking to YOU. You will wake up in the morning in her apartment, spooning her under her silk bed sheets. Looks and compatibility are unimportant at this stage, you need some confidence building.

Have fun.

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Yet you keep opening and reading the thread. :rolleyes:

I wonder if Chein Noir sees it like me....

Astounded at those who fall into spat's schpeil not what spats posts.

The fact that he gets responses, serious or not, is what's unbelievable here.

Edited by Joelmon
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I wonder if Chein Noir sees it like me....

Astounded at those who fall into spat's schpeil not what spats posts.

The fact that he gets responses, serious or not, is what's unbelievable here.

I'm beginning to think there's some kind of online social experiment going on here hmm? :rolleyes:

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Dude, Are you a follower or a leader? Go to a NEW club ALONE, one that your dopey buddies don't know about. Sit at the bar and order a drink. Act really depressed. Some chick will see you and take pity, she will start talking to YOU. You will wake up in the morning in her apartment, spooning her under her silk bed sheets. Looks and compatibility are unimportant at this stage, you need some confidence building.

Have fun.

Dude, it's never been THAT easy for me. I wish it was.

And i was with ya until the "looks are unimportant at this stage" part. :o

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Dude, Are you a follower or a leader? Go to a NEW club ALONE, one that your dopey buddies don't know about. Sit at the bar and order a drink. Act really depressed. Some chick will see you and take pity, she will start talking to YOU. You will wake up in the morning in her apartment, spooning her under her silk bed sheets. Looks and compatibility are unimportant at this stage, you need some confidence building.

Have fun.

This actually pretty decent advice. I've noticed that whenever I go out. For example, I might go out with my sister, and get hit on maybe once or twice, sometimes not at all. But when I go out alone, I might get hit on maybe five to ten times. Sometimes people will insist on sitting by me and talking for a bit. Regardless of whether I am happy or bummed out.

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