"The Object" dimensions

[Triplet Kick]

This has been posted about before, but does anyone with an appreciation of design, woodwork and frugality have the dimensions of the 1976 "Object"? I mean the original run of 1,000, not the subsequent replicas, which appear far 'softer' and not as hard-edged as the originals.

I have in mind to craft one from quality wood. Hey, the nights are getting shorter and I need something to do.

Theoretically it is very straightforward but the exact dimensions are required. You would probably need to know about elevations, angles etc (especially the angle of the bend in in the shaft). Quality reference photos of the original at all sides and from above with measuring tape/rulers would be useful too.

Anyone out there with the chops to pass on such info?

Cheers,

Triplet Kick

[SteveAJones]

Left: Original

Right: Reproduction

Edited September 16, 2009 by SteveAJones

[Triplet Kick]

Ah-ha! Thanks for the visual comparison aid. Most illuminating. The main thing is figuring out the angle of the base and the angle of the twist in the shaft...

And may I add to my original post that I'll happily show off this yet-to-be-made work when completed!

[SteveAJones]

Zeppelin Mysteries Thread (post #1146):

An investigation of original and reproduction Led Zeppelin Objects courtesy of my friend, the incomparable Rick Barrett:

The Presence “Object”: Real Or Repro?

by: Rick Barrett

I get LOTS of questions about the famous statue that was on the cover of Led Zeppelin's Presence album, which is called “The Object”. Hopefully this feature will give some background on it and answer some questions that commonly arise!

First of all, after Hipgnosis designed the Presence album cover, in which The Object was painted into the various scenes, Led Zeppelin had real Objects produced. That's what was used to photograph the album's black and white inner sleeves. Shortly thereafter, Alva Museum Graphics in New York was contracted to produce 1000 individually numbered 12" tall black Objects for Swan Song to use in their promotion of the record. On the base of each Object was imprinted the following on four sides:

1) LED ZEPPELIN (1/4" tall lettering)

2) "THE OBJECT" c 1976 SWAN SONG INC (VERY small lettering)

3) PRESENCE (1/4" tall lettering)

4) ____/1000 (The individual number was here; this information was etched by hand onto each Object

The originals came in brown cardboard boxes taped shut with brown paper filament tape. On the side of each box was a flat white sticker with "The Object" and "Copyright 1976 Swan Song" written in red. Some boxes have the number of the Object inside written in black magic marker on the outside of the box, on top. These brown cardboard boxes were nothing fancy; without the sticker it was just a plain brown cardboard box. When opened, one could see that The Object was packed in a brownish padded blanket of sorts...like those padded mailers filled with that shredded newspaper stuff. (Originals were NOT packaged with bubble wrap, and the cardboard boxes did NOT originally come shrink wrapped.) This is the only way and the only time The Object was ever released by Swan Song/Atlantic Records.

In the late 1970's-early 1980's, somewhere in the vicinity of 500 reproductions were made. Seems like there were lots more than that, but this is fact. There WERE many variations of the bogus Objects and they were all from the same source. None of the repros were numbered higher than 650 if memory serves me well, though there was one numbered 666! I do recall that there happened to be an overlap of some numbers on the fakes. I doubt there are any more than three of the same number on any of the repros. The numbering of these were done by hand, but they were not done chronologically; it seemed like whatever suited the bootleggers at the time was the norm. Most of the first run of repros had some cheap green felt on the bottom of The Object; subsequent ones were just plain black bottomed.

The differences between the originals and the 1980’s reproductions are as follows:

1) Originals: flat black paint;

Repros: glossy or semi-gloss black paint

2) Originals: very smooth sides and base; little or no imperfections

Repros: bulges and pits were prevelant, though not all that noticeable from a fair distance away; various flaws abound...brush marks from the paint, difficult to read etchings on the base, bulging top edge

3) Originals: underneath the thin coat of paint, a flesh-color appears IF a scratch or chip is not very deep; if deep then white shows through

Repros: Only a white color shows through if scratched or chipped

A REAL Object is in the left of these photos; a reproduction Object from the 1980’s is in the right of each photo:

**Both Originals and Repros were made of a hard plaster called hydrocale, and weighed the same. The originals were made of a higher quality material, which is one reason why there are less flaws than the hastily produced fakes. Both are also the same height.***

It is fairly safe to say that once one has seen an original Object, then you'll always be able to tell the difference between genuine and fakes. The differences are subtle enough for some to have been fooled by bootleg ones. Original Objects are not easy to find; most people who have them seem to want to keep them. Unlike many Zep items that seem to just appeal to hardcore Zeppelin fans, there are a LOT of music fans and collectors of promo items that want or have an Object. Real ones in an unopened box are becoming very rare; most people that get them open them up! I can't tell you how many people opened ones that we sold when we had a batch in the early 90's; one of our foreign customers had the unfortunate experience of having their original Object in the box opened by a Customs agent.

Finally, there has been another incarnation of reproduction Objects, manufactured by an artist in Oregon. These are very easy to tell from both the originals and reproduction Objects from a several decades ago because they have very rounded edges, are lighter in weight, and are usually numbered 310/1000:

Resized to 87% (was 799 x 665) - Click image to enlarge

The Object is a REALLY cool item; it's a GREAT conversation piece in any room and is quite an attention getter on a coffee table or shelf. If you're looking for an Object, good luck in your search!

[Black Dawg]

Here is a 3d scetch of the object. Good luck with finding the exact demensions.

http://sketchup.goog...98e433105e14e6b

[Triplet Kick]

Thanks also for that 3D model reference. I have read the Rick Barrat article before, and while very insightful, it lacks some vital info.

What would be really helpful is an overhead view of the original Object, so that you can see the angle of the twist in the shaft. It appears that it's a 45° twist. An overhead view under decent light would confirm this.

The dimensions I require are (preferably in millimetres):

1. Overall Height (from bottom of base to highest point)

2. Base:

2a. Width

2b. Height at each corner (angle of slope can be calculated from these figures)

3. Shaft:

3a. Width (assuming it is a perfect square)

Unless someone was able to reliably measure the shaft further (please no saucy double entendres - this is art!)I reckon I'd have to guess the angle at the top of the shaft.

Thanks again for your kind responses thus far. It may all be a pipe dream by a guy with too much time on his hands, but I really think that given sufficient information as listed above, this project could be done. Plus we'd have the info out there for anyone else to attempt the same.

UPDATE: The thought has struck me that my request could be perceived as a sneaky attempt to make a master copy for a possible run of Objects to sell. May I say, then, if I wanted to do that, I'd simply buy one of the replicas and used that as a guide. Just in case anyone thinks the same!

Edited September 16, 2009 by Triplet Kick

[SteveAJones]

Thanks also for that 3D model reference. I have read the Rick Barrat article before, and while very insightful, it lacks some vital info.

What would be really helpful is an overhead view of the original Object, so that you can see the angle of the twist in the shaft. It appears that it's a 45° twist. An overhead view under decent light would confirm this.

The dimensions I require are (preferably in millimetres):

1. Overall Height (from bottom of base to highest point)

2. Base:

2a. Width

2b. Height at each corner (angle of slope can be calculated from these figures)

3. Shaft:

3a. Width (assuming it is a perfect square)

Unless someone was able to reliably measure the shaft further (please no saucy double entendres - this is art!)I reckon I'd have to guess the angle at the top of the shaft.

Thanks again for your kind responses thus far. It may all be a pipe dream by a guy with too much time on his hands, but I really think that given sufficient information as listed above, this project could be done. Plus we'd have the info out there for anyone else to attempt the same.

I should think someone with an original object can post these specifications. If no one does I have one or two contacts with original objects that I will ask.

[Triplet Kick]

I should think someone with an original object can post these specifications. If no one does I have one or two contacts with original objects that I will ask.

Cheers Steve.

[reswati]

There is one original in a box for sale on Ebay right now.....please take a look at it Steve if you can identify the box as beeing a real one.

Triplet kick....try to contact the seller, he might be able to tell you who bought the thing after it is sold, and that person might be able to tell you the exact dimensions, if he decides to unpack it.

Possibly the seller has an opened one as well and he might be able to help you....

Good luck!

Uhhh, here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Led-Zeppelin-ORIGINAL-Object-Promo-Display-STILLSEALED_W0QQitemZ170382918100QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item27ab9d01d4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Edited September 16, 2009 by reswati

[SteveAJones]

There is one original in a box for sale on Ebay right now.....please take a look at it Steve if you can identify the box as beeing a real one.

Triplet kick....try to contact the seller, he might be able to tell you who bought the thing after it is sold, and that person might be able to tell you the exact dimensions, if he decides to unpack it.

Possibly the seller has an opened one as well and he might be able to help you....

Good luck!

Uhhh, here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/...id=p3286.c0.m14

The item is consistent with what is known to be the originals. Only 1000 were produced:

[whyalla]

A bit of a risk buying a seald one IMO. Would you ever open it? And if you did what if you found it wasn't 'The Object' at all BUT it was a brick!!! Just under $2k at the moment. The last one I saw on ebay; not boxed and badly chipped but had the pink primer showing through on hairline scratches, went for £900. So it could turn out to be the bargain of the century.

Triplet Kick. I worked out some dimensions a while ago to start a similar thing to what you are doing. I can't find them on the laptop I'm on at the moment but once I get time I'll check on my other computer and storage devices to see if I still have the measurements. I gave up with the project as it became so damn complicated to work it all. Hence the artist made 1 and cast the others from it. I wonder if the cast still exists OR could you make a cast from an original in perfect condition? $$$$$$$$

[SteveAJones]

A bit of a risk buying a seald one IMO. Would you ever open it? And if you did what if you found it wasn't 'The Object' at all BUT it was a brick!!! Just under $2k at the moment. The last one I saw on ebay; not boxed and badly chipped but had the pink primer showing through on hairline scratches, went for £900. So it could turn out to be the bargain of the century.

I'm trying very hard to remember if the reproduction Objects were packaged in reproduction boxes, as Rick's feature doesn't specify. It seems to me they were. If so, one would have to open the box to verify, as even

a security scanner wouldn't confirm it's texture.

[whyalla]

I'm trying very hard to remember if the reproduction Objects were packaged in reproduction boxes, as Rick's feature doesn't specify. It seems to me they were. If so, one would have to open the box to verify, as even

a security scanner wouldn't confirm it's texture.

I agree totally about the packaging. If someones gone to all the trouble to reproduce 'The Object' for profitable gain then they're likely to spend some time on the packaging - to the point of distressing it accordingly. $2ks' a lot of money for a brick However it's not a lot for the real thing and of course the potential to take a cast from it (and profit accordingly).

This is from Dave Lewis' 'Tight But Loose files : Celebration II' I'm sure you've all read it but for those who haven't:

[Triplet Kick]

Triplet Kick. I worked out some dimensions a while ago to start a similar thing to what you are doing. I can't find them on the laptop I'm on at the moment but once I get time I'll check on my other computer and storage devices to see if I still have the measurements. I gave up with the project as it became so damn complicated to work it all. Hence the artist made 1 and cast the others from it. I wonder if the cast still exists OR could you make a cast from an original in perfect condition? $$$$$$$$

Thanks Whyalla. If you happened to have those dimensions it'd be great. And I see what you mean about how complicated it would be to furnish The Object out of wood. But that's the challenge! I'll be talking to an artist I know and will discuss possibilities and troubleshooting.

And, no, I can't see myself getting into the memorabilia replica business. The company that made it in NYC still exists and given their reputation, I can't imagine them giving away the original cast or even if it still exists.

All good anywhere and I hope you manage to find those files.

[whyalla]

Thanks Whyalla. If you happened to have those dimensions it'd be great. And I see what you mean about how complicated it would be to furnish The Object out of wood. But that's the challenge! I'll be talking to an artist I know and will discuss possibilities and troubleshooting.

And, no, I can't see myself getting into the memorabilia replica business. The company that made it in NYC still exists and given their reputation, I can't imagine them giving away the original cast or even if it still exists.

All good anywhere and I hope you manage to find those files.

I'm on the case

[jayjay96]

Hi All,

Anybody know where I can find this "The Object" ? I would like to purchase it (either a copy or the original). Please let me know as soon as possible.

Thanks,

JJ

[Crowley]

I took my copy of the Object and finely sanded down the raised top and smoothed out the bumpy,pitted sides. I sanded till I had nice flat top,smooth sides and crisp edges. Painted it flat black and it now looks as good or better than original. When you sand down the object you dont lose much because the imperfections are mostly raised and thats whats sanded away. I will post a picture when I bring my camera home. Somewhere I have the before,during and after photos, wil search for

[Triplet Kick]

I took my copy of the Object and finely sanded down the raised top and smoothed out the bumpy,pitted sides.

That sounds like are far more reasonable and practical solution than mine. Suffice to say, to recreate The Object from scratch is beyond my craft skills.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I think Crowley's answer is, well, the answer.

[#1fan]

My friend has a 3d printer, I wonder if it can do this.

[#1fan]

Sweet I guess there is already a program to print it out, he is gonna make it smaller as a tribute so he don't get sued or what ever.

[BonzoBonham]

Having had one of these back in the day, and seeing Zep in 77', really fascinating to read and see photos of an actual box lol, thanks for posting!!!