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BIGDAN

Rights V Privilege

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And thats where it all goes wrong them Doc, when we all get "Inalienable Human Rights" then you might get away with calling them "Rights" untill then, na.

And the second part of your post is total BS, and you know it, thats why you have released them without charge, still a few years in the slammer will sort them out ah, and thats what you call "Inalienable Human Rights" is it? well you can keep em, there worth about as much as "kok-sucking" in your Navy, a Dollar, a Dollar Twenty Five, have a nice day y'all.

Regards, Danny

ohmy.gif Hold on there slappy, you quoted citizens miranda rights but you're talking about human rights which would fall under the Geneva convention not the US Constitution.

Secondly I don't think the military would just abduct innocent people without probable cause, maybe some were in the wrong place at the wrong time but you can bet they were up to no good they just couldn't prove it so they were released.

Happens all the time in the US, known thugs are released every day on some kind of technicality only to be released back into the public to commit more crimes just as the terrorist are released to cause more havoc yesnod.gif

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Hi Danny, you may be thinking of extraterrestrials icon6.gif i think they let you keep your thoughts, they just borrow them :)

Hey Tangerine, hows it going?

I think you could be "Right" again, i've just looked in my pants and found that i still only have two, there's no "extraterrestrials" down there, but i've been told many a time that my Brain is in my Pants so if that is true then you would expect my "Thoughts" to be there also, if anyone has borrowed them i would like them back please. :o

Tangerine i think you may have contributed the best post so far to this Debacle, i mean Debate, sorry. :wub:

Regards, Danny

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:o Hold on there slappy, you quoted citizens miranda rights but you're talking about human rights which would fall under the Geneva convention not the US Constitution.

I'm talking about "Inalienable Rights" you know? the ones Thomas Jefferson talked about in the "United States Declaration of Independence" the ones given by his Creator/God, who would have meant the "Whole of Humanity" and not just the "White American Slave Owners" you see where i'm comming from now do you?

Secondly I don't think the military would just abduct innocent people without probable cause, maybe some were in the wrong place at the wrong time but you can bet they were up to no good they just couldn't prove it so they were released.

Best you dont think too much then Doc, your Millitary rank alongside Nazi Germany, Russia, China, Chile, Argentina, Iraq, Iran, the list goes on, as abducting innocent people for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and then either locking them up without evidence or trials, or getting them to disapear without trace. :o

Happens all the time in the US, known thugs are released every day on some kind of technicality only to be released back into the public to commit more crimes just as the terrorist are released to cause more havoc yesnod.gif

Best you dont let them out then, i'm all for that, but i dont sit here and make out these things are done Lawfully like some of you do, if your Country wants to act like that then it should at least Change the Law, or take away the so called "Rights" that you dont have already, from the very start your Country has based itself on a Lie, "Inalienable Rights", if they were given to "all" as "God" would have wanted then you might have a case, but when you exclude the Red, Black, Yellow, Brown and Poor Whitemen fron those "Inalienable Rights" Bullshit then there really arent any are there? My point all along, the Prossecution Rests its Case, over to you to put the case for the Defence i think. ;)

Hi Doc,

Chas i'm so sorry, see i thought that when Thomas Jefferson said "Inalienable Rights" he was talking about all of "Mankind" not just the "White American Slave owner" ones, and he refers to the "Inalienable Rights" as "God Given".

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it,and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on suchprinciples and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shallseem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not bechanged for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experiencehath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils aresufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to whichthey are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations,pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce themunder absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Look Doc if i'm wrong about this, or my logic is flawed then you have the inteligence to put me in my place dont you? it can be your Challenge, put the "Limey" in his place, i'm sure enough people around here would love to see that happen, you dont have to get all "Contrary" like "Mary" do you. :lol:

Now off you go, have some lunch, and come back at me with a Good Argument, thats all i'm asking, lets leave the inhouse Bickering to the Children please.

Regards, Danny

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Actually, if they have a right to Health Care, then everyone would have Health Care, because it would be a right, and therefore it could not be taken away. As it is right now, Health Care is a privilege afforded to those who can afford it. It'd be a nice if Health Care was a right, but it's not.

So then why even try and give it to everyone?

So you'd still have a gun even if it was illegal?

Wait... no?

Well then, I guess owning that gun wasn't a right after all since it was taken from you.

yes, the government squashed it. Doesn't mean it's not a right. Otherwise, there are no such things and the word shouldn't actually exist.

Yes and no.

No one actually has any rights, but we need a government we need a government to ensure our privileges. I am no anarchist. I don't have enough faith in humanity to be an anarchist.

Why? I mean afterall, the government decides what privileges we have too right? Who's to say they just throw them out the window?

Actually that's not entirely correct. You will be put in a facility if you attempt suicide, but it is not a crime punishable by jail time, fines, etc.
So forced into a mental hospital is any better?

And yes, you do, because everyone will die eventually.

Wrong outlook on it.

And yes I was right because everyone does all those things I mentioned. This outlook is exactly the same as yours. Absolutely no difference. You took a biological fact and claimed it as a right since everyone does it. Same damn thing i did. Am i wrong?

No. Rights cannot be defied. Privileges can. Therefore, it proves that people defy the privileges of others... not the rights.
The whole concept of rights wouldn't have come up if they couldn't be defied. Going back to slavery, the argument wasn't "These people have privileges!" Because lawfully they did not, and this is all according to the US government mind you. The argument was that these people had rights to live freely which they did. As we all do. Just because some people ignore that doesn't change the fact.

How the hell am I supposed to know? I wasn't alive then. I didn't grow up in that culture. If I had the same feelings then that I do today, then you can sure-as-fuck bet that'd I be an abolitionist and equal-rights defender. But if I grew up in that era, and I grew up in the South then (like I did in the current era) then who knows. Maybe I would be racist defending slave ownership. I can't know because I wasn't alive then and wasn't influenced by the atmosphere at the time.

And assuming you would think the same thing you do today is fucking retarded and you know it.

No offense big guy, but that entirely went over your head. Completely missed the point.

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Hi 'BonzoLikeDrumer'

Hey man i'm gonna come clean with you, i was trying (unsucessfully) to draw someone out about the "Unalienable Human Rights" that Thomas Jefferson voiced way back in the day when the "Bill of Right " was drawn up, nobody took it up, shame, it could have been a good debate.

There are too many people on here with other agendas to do that, my mistake, sorry folks.

Now let me put this too you,

Thomas Jefferson was talking about "Inalienable Human Rights" granted to you/us by "GOD" not by "MAN".

"For Americans, human rights are a matter of national values. They view human rights as crucial to protecting the dignity, fairness and opportunity that all people deserve. And they treasure the historic American ideal, voiced by Thomas Jefferson, of inalienable rights that flow from our creator." (GOD)

http://www.thenation...0071224/jenkins

But as we know, Governments in Particular and People in General have no feelings towards "GOD" at all, and in fact lead a Very Satanic Life Devoid of any "Godly Morality" so in effect all bets are off with "GOD" and your "Unalienable Human Rights" or "Bill of Rights" is now defunked, kaput, passed on, expired, gone to meet its maker, kicked the bucket, shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile, THIS IS AN EX-RIGHT! (sorry for going all "Monty" on you, i forgot myself)

Now in reply to you opening statement "You have the right to remain silent"....... "You have a right to have an attorney present".....when did that apply to the Innocent People taken to the Guantanamo Bay Prison/Gulag/Stalag? or to the Innocent People Killed and Abused in Abu Ghraib Prison/Gulag/Stalag? So in fact you have no rights when the Governments of this World say so, because "GOD" has deemed us Unworthy of those "Rights" and what "GOD" gives he can take away, which as far as i'm concerned he has done.

Now is that clear enough for you or do you want me to go in more to detail?

Regards, Danny

OK Danny, I'll give it my best shot....

"Inalienable Human Rights" as per say what the founding fathers where ensuing at that point in time for the USA.

You have to remember that they (the founding fathers) wanted to make the United States of America's revolution a legal and just action. In other words no ramifications to come back and bite them on the ass! If you read our Bill of Right's and Constitution, I mean read into it and how it's worded it is clear how (on paper) this was done.

As for the God and God given right's part, well, that's (if you ask me) just one of the reasons to have the revolution in the first place. They wanted to let people pray in the way they where being persecuted for back in England (at that time) with out the fear of being castrated or thrown into prison, or worse! But, there is a catch to that part that I still don't get, if the right's are given from a god that we are so imperfect to when being compared against, how can we as the imperfect one's be of any benefit to any of those kind's of right's to start with? B)

I don't think that the right's of an American (or any other country's citizen's) are to be confused with the basic law's that have been agreed upon by some nation's when they are fighting a war. That is something different and can't be put on my or any other (non military) American's citizenry right's, simply because these are not US citizen's we are talking about here.

Now, if any law's that our military upholds have been broken then that too is a different story.

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OK Danny, I'll give it my best shot....

"Inalienable Human Rights" as per say what the founding fathers where ensuing at that point in time for the USA.

You have to remember that they (the founding fathers) wanted to make the United States of America's revolution a legal and just action. In other words no ramifications to come back and bite them on the ass! If you read our Bill of Right's and Constitution, I mean read into it and how it's worded it is clear how (on paper) this was done.

As for the God and God given right's part, well, that's (if you ask me) just one of the reasons to have the revolution in the first place. They wanted to let people pray in the way they where being persecuted for back in England (at that time) with out the fear of being castrated or thrown into prison, or worse! But, there is a catch to that part that I still don't get, if the right's are given from a god that we are so imperfect to when being compared against, how can we as the imperfect one's be of any benefit to any of those kind's of right's to start with? B)

I don't think that the right's of an American (or any other country's citizen's) are to be confused with the basic law's that have been agreed upon by some nation's when they are fighting a war. That is something different and can't be put on my or any other (non military) American's citizenry right's, simply because these are not US citizen's we are talking about here.

Now, if any law's that our military upholds have been broken then that too is a different story.

Hi 'BonzoLikeDrumer'

Your not as Contrary as Mary are you? :lol:

Now we are getting somewhere, you have turned this topic around for me mate and you have given it your best shot, i grant you that, 10 out of 10 for effort.

I just wanted to point out that "Inalienable Human Rights" are nothing to do with your Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Declaration of Independence that Thomas Jefferson proposed, although others would have you think so, "Inalienable Human Rights" come from "GOD" and no Man may Change them.

:watchingyou:

I will now give ground to you as to other Rights that we have.

After a lengthy look at this page on "Human Rights"

http://en.wikipedia....of_Human_Rights

I find all of the 30 Articles on Human Rights to have been infringed upon by either Yours or Mine or Somebodys Governments within recent years, so as i said before, the Paper that they were written is only fit for the Jakes.

Good Debate though Bonzo, like it.

Regards, Danny

PS, I just got back from a meeting with my MP, and he tells me that my "Right to Die" option has been revoked, oh well, never mind, i'll just have to live forever then wont i? :yay:

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OK Danny, I'll give it my best shot....

"Inalienable Human Rights" as per say what the founding fathers where ensuing at that point in time for the USA.

You have to remember that they (the founding fathers) wanted to make the United States of America's revolution a legal and just action. In other words no ramifications to come back and bite them on the ass! If you read our Bill of Right's and Constitution, I mean read into it and how it's worded it is clear how (on paper) this was done.

As for the God and God given right's part, well, that's (if you ask me) just one of the reasons to have the revolution in the first place. They wanted to let people pray in the way they where being persecuted for back in England (at that time) with out the fear of being castrated or thrown into prison, or worse! But, there is a catch to that part that I still don't get, if the right's are given from a god that we are so imperfect to when being compared against, how can we as the imperfect one's be of any benefit to any of those kind's of right's to start with? B)

I don't think that the right's of an American (or any other country's citizen's) are to be confused with the basic law's that have been agreed upon by some nation's when they are fighting a war. That is something different and can't be put on my or any other (non military) American's citizenry right's, simply because these are not US citizen's we are talking about here.

Now, if any law's that our military upholds have been broken then that too is a different story.

You are talking to an insane person. Good luck on reasoning with that..

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You are talking to an insane person. Good luck on reasoning with that..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r-oqk4Phuc

"Girl, you really got me goin

You got me so I dont know what Im doin

Yeah, you really got me now

You got me so I cant sleep at night

Yeah, you really got me now

You got me so I dont know what Im doin, now

Oh yeah, you really got me now

You got me so I cant sleep at night

You really got me

You really got me

You really got me

See, dont ever set me free

I always wanna be by your side

Girl, you really got me now

You got me so I cant sleep at night"

Mary Mary quite contrary,

How does your garden grow?

With silver bells and cockle shells

And pretty boys all in a row.

You really got me that time didnt you Mary? :lol:

Kind Regards, Danny

Edited by BIGDAN

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Hi 'BonzoLikeDrumer'

Your not as Contrary as Mary are you? :lol:

Now we are getting somewhere, you have turned this topic around for me mate and you have given it your best shot, i grant you that, 10 out of 10 for effort.

I just wanted to point out that "Inalienable Human Rights" are nothing to do with your Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Declaration of Independence that Thomas Jefferson proposed, although others would have you think so, "Inalienable Human Rights" come from "GOD" and no Man may Change them.

:watchingyou:

I will now give ground to you as to other Rights that we have.

After a lengthy look at this page on "Human Rights"

http://en.wikipedia....of_Human_Rights

I find all of the 30 Articles on Human Rights to have been infringed upon by either Yours or Mine or Somebodys Governments within recent years, so as i said before, the Paper that they were written is only fit for the Jakes.

Good Debate though Bonzo, like it.

Regards, Danny

PS, I just got back from a meeting with my MP, and he tells me that my "Right to Die" option has been revoked, oh well, never mind, i'll just have to live forever then wont i? :yay:

Like I said Danny, I don't see how a right given by a god can even compare to a mortal person that can and will brake any law with out batting an eye.

And also like I said, the founding fathers needed to sanitize the war they started to get them what they wanted in the first place. Get it, so they don't lose control of the country (or be revolted on them selves) that they had just formed.

I think we have it much better than the way things where back in the early years of this great nation I call home.

Like I used to think when I was at work and found something very unsafe. When I would turn to some one that had been working there longer than me. They would just reply, "it take's some one getting hurt before they will do anything about it". :o

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Like I said Danny, I don't see how a right given by a god can even compare to a mortal person that can and will brake any law with out batting an eye.

And also like I said, the founding fathers needed to sanitize the war they started to get them what they wanted in the first place. Get it, so they don't lose control of the country (or be revolted on them selves) that they had just formed.

I think we have it much better than the way things where back in the early years of this great nation I call home.

Like I used to think when I was at work and found something very unsafe. When I would turn to some one that had been working there longer than me. They would just reply, "it take's some one getting hurt before they will do anything about it". :o

Hi 'BonzoLikeDrumer'

My Involvement with this Topic is Over, i pass the Batton over to you Bonzo, i have Drawn out all i can accomplish with it and i retire from this Debate, i do not Relinquish my "Right" to be "Right" you Understand? Just my "Right" to "Shut The Fcuk Up".

Your last sentence sounds like the one i've been using all my life, "The Song Remains The Same" so they say.

Kind Regards to you all, Danny

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