Any unreleased professionally recorded concerts?

[boogie woogie]

I was rereading part of the book Led Zeppelin The Concert File by Dave Lewis and Simon Pallett. I came across two entries listing professionally recorded concerts that I was not aware of.

10/10/69 The Olympia Paris France

1/23/73 The Old Refectory Southhampton University, Southhampton England

So, now I am wondering how many other concerts were professionally recorded (not soundboard) but unreleased? I'm interested in finding out about professionally recorded concerts where we have some sort of confirmation that they were actually recorded. I would appreciate any info you have.

Edited November 3, 2009 by boggie woogie

[EzyEric]

Yeah we have both those soundboards (well 10/10/69 is from an FM source).

As I understand southhampton was a potential pick for the release that ended up being How The West Was Won and was actually (re)mastered by Kevin Shirly and later leaked.

There are probably some we dont know of, most consider the tell tale sign to be a 2nd mic on the kick drum (which Ive never really understood)

Bath festival was recorded but the word was that the video ended up being too messed up for any good use. I wonder about the audio though.

[tom kid]

Wasn't the 'Flying Circus' New York '75 SBD mixedby Eddie Kramer?

Edited November 4, 2009 by tom kid

[Nutrocker]

Wasn't the 'Flying Circus' New York '75 SBD mixedby Eddie Kramer?

good question, and something I've also wondered about...

Has it ever been confirmed this show was done by Eddie Kramer? Or has this always been sort of an urban legend kind of thing? And why this show (Feb 12), out of all the '75 performances?

[tom kid]

good question, and something I've also wondered about...

Has it ever been confirmed this show was done by Eddie Kramer? Or has this always been sort of an urban legend kind of thing? And why this show (Feb 12), out of all the '75 performances?

Yeah it's something I've read many a time, especially on here. Although not a bad performance by any means '75 had MUCH better shows than this one.

Also, I've heard that Kramer refused to multi-track record the '77 tour because of the amount of drugs the band was doing. I find this hard to believe, considering it was the 70's and the amount of bands he had recorded who were well into their drugs (woodstock for example.) He also would have recieved a huge pay cheque for recording that tour.

[k5ymo]

good question, and something I've also wondered about...

Has it ever been confirmed this show was done by Eddie Kramer? Or has this always been sort of an urban legend kind of thing? And why this show (Feb 12), out of all the '75 performances?

I seem to hear that Kramer was involved in the 'Flying Circus' MSG recording...and what a great recording it is.

Urban legend...perhaps, but what a great legend to be part of!!

So thats it...'Flying Circus' it is for the trip to work in the morning!!

Kind regards from Down Under fellow Zep Heads

[LarryD]

Yeah we have both those soundboards (well 10/10/69 is from an FM source).

There are probably some we dont know of, most consider the tell tale sign to be a 2nd mic on the kick drum (which Ive never really understood)

Often time a second microphone is used on a particular instrument or drum to prevent feedback. One microphone will be out of phase with the other and the one used must extremely close to the source or won't pick up the voicing.

[greenman]

Bath festival was recorded but the word was that the video ended up being too messed up for any good use. I wonder about the audio though.

The fact Page was sposed to be interested in the 30 mins or so quality footage of Bath does suggest that he has some kind of recording to go with it although I spose if he was only looking at it as a bit of bonus material for the DVD it might not be multitrack. You do have an obvious reason why it wasnt considered fot the CD release though given that the setuplist/performance was very similar to the RAH show on the DVD.

Theres the Japan 1971 recordings of course, I can beleieve that they werent good enough for a pro release(and even if they could be made so now the Cali 72 and southhampton 73 wuld obviously be easier to work on) but Page just wiping them doesnt really seem in character to me for someone who kept 2 track SB's of almost every concert. That always sounded like a cover story to me to nix a potential release that they never sounded too keen on.

Theres only been half rumours about it but I do think the 71 Wembley electric magic shows seem likely candidates for unknown pro recordings. The band obviously knew they were hot at the time, the event was very close to the equipment/people needed to record it and they were the biggest shows of the tour.

While it seems strange there isnt more material from the latter years I think you can put that down to the fact there live career was so often interupted.

Edited November 4, 2009 by greenman

[cookieshoes]

Wasn't the 'Flying Circus' New York '75 SBD mixedby Eddie Kramer?

It wasn't. The only 75 shows that were professionally recorded were the Earls Court gigs. None of the US 75 soundboards were professionally recorded. All of them are raw soundboard feeds.

The Kramer-Flying Circus connection has been a persistent myth largely because that soundboard sounds so good. But it's a raw soundboard, not a pro recording. It was pointed out elsewhere, but check for the volume rise in JPJ's bass during Sick Again on the soundboard. Listen to the audience source and you can hear the same rise in volume at the same spot. That confirms that the Flying Circus board was recorded directly off of the same soundboard which the soundcrew used to adjust the PA levels. If it were a pro multitrack recording, those sorts of things wouldn't be on there, since the levels of the signal being fed to the multitracks run independent of the signal being run to the soundboard and PA.

Edited November 5, 2009 by cookieshoes

[Nutrocker]

^^^^^

Thank you for that clarification, cookieshoes. I've never heard the Feb 12 audience source, but your explanation makes perfect sense from a 'production' point of view.

[And You Know How It Is?]

Different sources report that the Seattle Pop Festival from July 1969 was recorded (audio only).

Also read somewhere that the October 1972 Montreux, Switzerland shows were supposedly recorded (audio only).

Who knows if we'll ever get confirmation that these were recorded, let alone if they'll ever be released.

[A Rolling Stone]

If I'm not mistaken, Zep didn't play on 01/23/73. The Southampton Refectory show was on the 22nd.

[boogie woogie]

If I'm not mistaken, Zep didn't play on 01/23/73. The Southampton Refectory show was on the 22nd.

Thanks for the correction.

Edited November 17, 2009 by boggie woogie

[Rock Action]

It wasn't. The only 75 shows that were professionally recorded were the Earls Court gigs. None of the US 75 soundboards were professionally recorded. All of them are raw soundboard feeds.

The Kramer-Flying Circus connection has been a persistent myth largely because that soundboard sounds so good. But it's a raw soundboard, not a pro recording. It was pointed out elsewhere, but check for the volume rise in JPJ's bass during Sick Again on the soundboard. Listen to the audience source and you can hear the same rise in volume at the same spot. That confirms that the Flying Circus board was recorded directly off of the same soundboard which the soundcrew used to adjust the PA levels. If it were a pro multitrack recording, those sorts of things wouldn't be on there, since the levels of the signal being fed to the multitracks run independent of the signal being run to the soundboard and PA.

Oddly enough though, this recording sounds BETTER than the official TSRTS soundtrack. Go figure...

Also, there is a new boot of this show that sounds even better yet on the Godfather label, "That's Alright New York". Even if you have the original, this is worth getting. The recording "breathes". Much better.

[NobodysFaultButJimmys]

In my Led Zeppelin anthology book thing which was approved by Richard Cole it says the Royal Albert Hall concert in 1970 was meant to be a recording but the company they hired to record it brought cameras and recorded it like that. I wish they did that for all the recordings! Especially BBC Sessions if that was visual that would be god like

[greenman]

In my Led Zeppelin anthology book thing which was approved by Richard Cole it says the Royal Albert Hall concert in 1970 was meant to be a recording but the company they hired to record it brought cameras and recorded it like that. I wish they did that for all the recordings! Especially BBC Sessions if that was visual that would be god like

I'd guess that maybe down to Coles fading memory or lack of knowledge about the situation, my understanding is that the RAH show was filmed to make up opart of a possible BBC TV speical on the band which was later dropped. The camaras clearly didnt replace multitracking the concert though, they were in addition to doing so.

[jonohull]

Oddly enough though, this recording sounds BETTER than the official TSRTS soundtrack. Go figure...

Also, there is a new boot of this show that sounds even better yet on the Godfather label, "That's Alright New York". Even if you have the original, this is worth getting. The recording "breathes". Much better.

They probably just put out a direct copy of the bluecongo matrix. That sounds as good as any pro recording.

[Conneyfogle]

All the Page & Plant shows were recorded on film and audio!

[3hrsoflunacy]

^^^^^

Thank you for that clarification, cookieshoes. I've never heard the Feb 12 audience source, but your explanation makes perfect sense from a 'production' point of view.

There are actually 2. There is the Artie source, and the Jerry Moore source. The latter is fabulous.

[3hrsoflunacy]

They probably just put out a direct copy of the bluecongo matrix. That sounds as good as any pro recording.

The Godfather release is their remaster/tweak to the EVSD SBD release. and I agree with you regarding the bluecongo matrix. Awesome job.

[Wolfman]

I remember there were rumors that Jimmy had some of the Japan shows done. I'm guessing this is BS though.

Also, am I only one who thinks Flying Circus is overrated? Jimmy sounds terrible in certain songs. It's still cool to hear how clean the sound is compared to most boots I own though.

[cookieshoes]

I remember there were rumors that Jimmy had some of the Japan shows done. I'm guessing this is BS though.

Also, am I only one who thinks Flying Circus is overrated? Jimmy sounds terrible in certain songs. It's still cool to hear how clean the sound is compared to most boots I own though.

I believe that the current consensus is that the last two nights of the Japan 71 tour, in Osaka, were recorded. No clue on the other nights. The reason that the Osaka gigs are believed to have been recorded are because the photos from those gigs reveal a bunch of extra microphones onstage, which weren't present at other gigs on the tour.

As for Flying Circus, I think that most of the 75 tour is overrated. Plant's voice and Jimmy's playing both suffer. But, once you buy in to the fact that they aren't the same performers anymore, you can start evaluating the tour with that new mindset. So, Flying Circus actually ends up being a bit of a triumph, especially when compared to other shows that they gave on that tour.

[Nutrocker]

I thought it was determined that "Flying Circus" was not professionally recorded (certainly not by Eddie Kramer! ) but was merely really good sounding SBD recording...

Let's not forget that Jimmy forgot all about the "How The West Was Won" tapes until he and Kevin Shirley stumbled across them when working on the DVD. Are there any more professionally released concerts floating around? Christ, I bet Page himself isn't even sure...

That said, if there were, chances are Jimmy would put 'em out...eventually.

[jpp1944q]

Yeah it's something I've read many a time, especially on here. Although not a bad performance by any means '75 had MUCH better shows than this one.

Also, I've heard that Kramer refused to multi-track record the '77 tour because of the amount of drugs the band was doing. I find this hard to believe, considering it was the 70's and the amount of bands he had recorded who were well into their drugs (woodstock for example.) He also would have recieved a huge pay cheque for recording that tour.

true,many groups were drugged out,but page in particular hardly played professionally at some gigs.jimi hendrix,because he was always jamming and practicing,was able to negate somewhat his enormous drug intake.if you can't handle playing and drugging at the same time,you are ripping off your fans.

[3hrsoflunacy]

I bet Page himself isn't even sure...

+1