Bonham/Morrison grounded thier bands

[McSeven]

JB and JM had such an effect on their bands that they grounded them by their deaths.

Were they that crucial to the band that they stopped them from continuing? Yet when it comes to The Stones (Brian Jones) The Who (Moon). Their deaths did not stop the band from continuing on.

What do you think Bonzo did for Zep that no other drummer could do. Please even chime in for JMorrison. Were they the glue that held their bands together?

[kaiser]

Well Brian Jones was already out of The Stones & replaced before he died. They already continued without him while he was alive. They became a much different band without him, as they did when Mick Taylor quit, they became yet another band with Ron Wood.

The Who did end, just 2 albums to late. The Who was just something Townshend was afraid to let go of & he had a bad alcohol & drug problem at the time. When he became sober he disbanded the band. When they regrouped a few years later it was only as a touring band. They toured for almost 20 years before releasing an album of new material. The Who are now really like what Page&Plant were in the 90's, but Daltrey & Townshend ARE The Who as they're the only survivors.

Zeppelin could have continued, they just chose not to. If they did continue it would have been different, probably not as good or maybe better, who knows. What's rare is that they made a decision & stuck to it for so long. There's various reasons why they didn't & it's well covered. People get romantic about it that they couldn't have replaced Bonzo but obviously they already have in live situations & if it were up to Page Bonzo would have been replaced by now regardless if Jason was on drums or not, but obviously Plant doesn't want to do it. Not very romantic when you get down to it, but I'm glad they didn't continue without Bonham, particularly as a recording band. Just leave the records be, we don't need another one. A tour, would've been cool but oh well.

The Doors made 2 albums without Morrison, with Manzarek singing instead. They also tried to replace Morrison with Iggy Pop. So much for grounding themselves. There is also that travesty known as the 21st Century Doors that Manzarek & Krieger tour with but that's another story. It doesn't bother me as I've never liked the band.

So no, I don't think they were the glue anymore than any other band member. The Dead go on without Jerry Garcia, if Keith kicks it I'm sure Mick will go on without him, Aerosmith is looking to replace Tyler, etc. Simply put again, Jones, Page, & Plant just chose not to continue.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

Well Brian Jones was already out of The Stones & replaced before he died. They already continued without him while he was alive. They became a much different band without him, as they did when Mick Taylor quit, they became yet another band with Ron Wood.

The Who did end, just 2 albums to late. The Who was just something Townshend was afraid to let go of & he had a bad alcohol & drug problem at the time. When he became sober he disbanded the band. When they regrouped a few years later it was only as a touring band. They toured for almost 20 years before releasing an album of new material. The Who are now really like what Page&Plant were in the 90's, but Daltrey & Townshend ARE The Who as they're the only survivors.

Zeppelin could have continued, they just chose not to. If they did continue it would have been different, probably not as good or maybe better, who knows. What's rare is that they made a decision & stuck to it for so long. There's various reasons why they didn't & it's well covered. People get romantic about it that they couldn't have replaced Bonzo but obviously they already have in live situations & if it were up to Page Bonzo would have been replaced by now regardless if Jason was on drums or not, but obviously Plant doesn't want to do it. Not very romantic when you get down to it, but I'm glad they didn't continue without Bonham, particularly as a recording band. Just leave the records be, we don't need another one. A tour, would've been cool but oh well.

The Doors made 2 albums without Morrison, with Manzarek singing instead. They also tried to replace Morrison with Iggy Pop. So much for grounding themselves. There is also that travesty known as the 21st Century Doors that Manzarek & Krieger tour with but that's another story. It doesn't bother me as I've never liked the band.

So no, I don't think they were the glue anymore than any other band member. The Dead go on without Jerry Garcia, if Keith kicks it I'm sure Mick will go on without him, Aerosmith is looking to replace Tyler, etc. Simply put again, Jones, Page, & Plant just chose not to continue.

Good analysis kaiser, I agree as you can hear the change by checking out Robert Plant's solo stuff and even Pete Townshend's stuff (with and with out the Who) after Keith Moon.

It was just not the same and the world will never see them (any band in that situation) as the same again. But, the die hard fan's would still buy the music and merchandise and even go to the show's. A lot of the not so hardcore fan's would still do this but in the end it will be up to the band to decide. The Who actually went through a big change as the music and the music business changed dramatically in the late 1960's and early 1970's. The Beatles's went through the same thing as well (but I think they where doomed by that time any way's), it's hard to compare these early rock band's with a group like Led Zeppelin even if I do like them all.

[Gospel Zone]

JB and JM had such an effect on their bands that they grounded them by their deaths.

Were they that crucial to the band that they stopped them from continuing? Yet when it comes to The Stones (Brian Jones) The Who (Moon). Their deaths did not stop the band from continuing on.

What do you think Bonzo did for Zep that no other drummer could do. Please even chime in for JMorrison. Were they the glue that held their bands together?

Morrison and Bonzo did not ground their bands. It was surviving members that did that. Hence the Stones and The Who go on.

Robert Plant should start a band with John Densmore. They could call it The Kill Joys.

[kaiser]

Morrison and Bonzo did not ground their bands. It was surviving members that did that. Hence the Stones and The Who go on.

Robert Plant should start a band with John Densmore. They could call it The Kill Joys.

Ouch.

[Reggie29]

Morrison and Bonzo did not ground their bands. It was surviving members that did that. Hence the Stones and The Who go on.

Robert Plant should start a band with John Densmore. They could call it The Kill Joys.

First of all they didn't ground anything, they forced the remaining members to decide whether to disband or continue.

Both camps chose the former.

So are you saying that when Bonzo and Morrison died, it was only Plant and Densmore who were responsible for the decision for their bands demise?

What stupid and ill informed comments!

If that was an attempt at humour it failed miserably.

And yes, The Stones and The Who do go on, and on and on and on.....!

[Mangani]

Robert Plant should start a band with John Densmore. They could call it The Kill Joys.

Nah, I'd call it The Integrities.

[Gospel Zone]

First of all they didn't ground anything, they forced the remaining members to decide whether to disband or continue.

Grounded or forced to decide.....same difference.

So are you saying that when Bonzo and Morrison died, it was only Plant and Densmore who were responsible for the decision for their bands demise?

Ray Manzarek and Robby Krieger were performing as The Doors of the 21st Century when John Densmore took legal action to stop them from using The Doors name and it's common knowledge that Robert Plant is holding up the show, as far as Led Zeppelin is concerned.

What stupid and ill informed comments!

As far as calling my comments "stupid and ill informed", you could do a little research on the subject yourself.

If that was an attempt at humour it failed miserably.

I'd say, my attempt at humor was much more successful than your attempt at making a sound and objective argument to defend what is obviously your own insecurity.

And yes, The Stones and The Who do go on, and on and on and on.....!

Sort of like how the speculation often goes on and on, on this forum.....while some of the topics are quite insightful, in could easily be argued that many are just as pathetic as aging rockers who don't know when to quit.

[kaiser]

Double ouch.

Anyway, my THEORY, & it is only a theory here before anyone jumps down my throat, is that from the beginning to the end of LZ there were 2 camps socially that were Plant/Bonham & to a lesser extent Page/Jones. I'm sure they were all friends but particularly Plant & Bonham had a greater shared experience pre-Zep & actually "lived" with eachother in the same area, through travel, hanging in pubs, etc while Page & Jones had came from a similar area and maybe upbringing & through their shared experiences in session work. I would think Plant just refused to carry on, that there was no other option for him to carry on with Zep without Bonham outright while Page & Jones may have weighed whether it was worth it or not if even for a minute before deciding the inevitable. That to me is just a natural human response anyone might have. Musically of course Jones & Plant were a different camp with ITTOD & Page & Bonham worked closely together musically from things on the fourth album & onto PG and from what Page has said he & Bonham were looking to change direction for next album that never was. I'm sure they all paired up in different ways at one point or another but Plant & Bonham could have punch ups & taunt eachother & still remain friends. I don't picture that happening with any other pairing of Plant, Page, Bonham, and Jones. The two of them had that just a bit more tighter relationship & the balance changed for Plant & it could never be the same. To sum up my theory, Bonham was the glue for Plant moreso than that Bonham was the glue to Led Zeppelin itself.

[McSeven]

Kaiser. I think that what you wrote is insightful and true. I do think that they had a major influence on the band not continuing. The thing with Morrison is that Ray and Robbie asked John Densmore if the could all go out and play as the Doors.

They even went as far as changing the name from the Doors to the New Doors of the 21 Century. I know this because I listen to internet podcast WMGK and they have an interview with Ray Manzereck. So Densmore really did shut down the Doors.

As for Bonzo's death. Bonzo is a Percussionist. He is not a Drummer that just keeps the beat. Bonzo only has certain peers that are on his level. Ginger Baker from Cream, Keith Moon from the Who. So from a musical point of view, Bonzo's shoes were hard to fill. Robert from what I have seen from interviews, comes across of Bonzo being a brother. Even in the Page and Plant No Quarter dvd. When they dedicated Four Sticks and performed it. Robert to me had a least 10 seconds of sadness in his eyes when he dedicated the song to him.

[glicine]

And I thought about Bonzo’s Mum Joan. I used to pick Bonzo up when I was 17 in some clapped out Ford Popular, and she used to shake her head and frown and go ‘’You two’’! We were 17 and 19 and then 29 and 32 and that was it.

- Robert Plant

Can't you feel it?

[Reggie29]

Grounded or forced to decide.....same difference.

Ray Manzarek and Robby Krieger were performing as The Doors of the 21st Century when John Densmore took legal action to stop them from using The Doors name and it's common knowledge that Robert Plant is holding up the show, as far as Led Zeppelin is concerned.

As far as calling my comments "stupid and ill informed", you could do a little research on the subject yourself.

I'd say, my attempt at humor was much more successful than your attempt at making a sound and objective argument to defend what is obviously your own insecurity.

Sort of like how the speculation often goes on and on, on this forum.....while some of the topics are quite insightful, in could easily be argued that many are just as pathetic as aging rockers who don't know when to quit.

Whatever does that mean?

I thought your post was in bad taste, especially the Killjoys part and exercised my right of free speech to express my opinion.

I've been reading about and listening (I actually saw them once), to the band for 40 years and there has always been speculation mostly without substance so my knowledge of them is as good as most on here.

Yes I was aware of the legal action against R M & J K and if Densmore was an equal partner and owner of the name then he had every right to object.

Don't give up your day job for a career in comedy.

FYI they toured here a couple of years ago with the singer from The Australian Doors tribute band so they benefitted financially from it.

As for Plant holding up the show, hello, there ain't no show and hasn't been for almost 30 years.

Of course if you had done your research you would have known that the Ahmet tribute concert was a one off and Robert gladly accepted to do it as such for his friend at the behest of Ahmet's family.

After all he has enjoyed a successfull solo career that some on here can't get past and trot out the tired old "it's all Roberts fault" line because as JPJ said, "he doesn't want to play loud music anymore".

Why has JPJ put all his energy into TCV?

Because just like Robert he is where he wants to be musically and hopefully Jimmy will finally realise his own niche when he releases his new music next year.

Insecure, me?

No.

Being an Earth sign I am very grounded!

FYI.

Grounded,

verb:

1. To place on or cause to touch the ground.

2. To provide a basis for (a theory, for example); justify.

3. To supply with basic information; instruct in fundamentals.

4. To prevent (an aircraft or a pilot) from flying.

5. Informal To restrict (someone) especially to a certain place as a punishment.

6. Electricity To connect (an electric circuit) to a ground.

7. Nautical To run (a vessel) aground.

a. Baseball To hit (a ball) onto the ground.

b. Football To throw (a ball) to the ground in order to stop play and avoid being tackled behind the line of scrimmage.

adjective:

1. firmly established

2. practical or realistic

3. natural, sincere, etc.

4. stable, secure, etc.

[59LesPaul]

if Keith kicks it I'm sure Mick will go on without him...

You're assuming that Keith would "kick it" first...

Mick couldn't go on with The Rolling Stones without Keith,because Keith is The Rolling Stones.

If comments that both Mick and Keith have made over the years are any type of barometer,Mick wouldn't carry on.He's spoken of being "bored" of rock and roll since 1972,maybe even earlier.The main reason he'd continue-or try to-would most likely be financial.

Keith has commented that if it was entirely his choice,they'd keep going until they couldn't.I sincerely believe that if it was up to Keith,he'd literally keep going until he dropped dead onstage.If the Stones ever do break up,I fully expect Keith to keep going musically,one way or another. (X-Pensive Winos,anyone? )

Keith has also said that if Charlie ever quits,so would the Stones.

If Keith dies, we should hang up Rock and Roll and call it a game.

[kaiser]

As for Bonzo's death. Bonzo is a Percussionist. He is not a Drummer that just keeps the beat. Bonzo only has certain peers that are on his level. Ginger Baker from Cream, Keith Moon from the Who. So from a musical point of view, Bonzo's shoes were hard to fill. Robert from what I have seen from interviews, comes across of Bonzo being a brother. Even in the Page and Plant No Quarter dvd. When they dedicated Four Sticks and performed it. Robert to me had a least 10 seconds of sadness in his eyes when he dedicated the song to him.

As I said, I think it was more of a personal nature for at least Plant deciding not to carry on as LZ than it had to do with Bonham's drumming, no matter that Bonham was the best rock drummer ever. I could be completely off base but as I said that's my theory. Whatever each surviving members personal reasons for deciding to disband, they all unanimously reached a decision they could & would not continue as of the autumn of 1980, then a few years after that decision maybe it was no longer unanimous for all involved. Things change & people's decisions change while others peoples decisions stand as they were. There's always a grieving process after a death whether it's an actual physical death of a person or the symbolic death of a relationship. I'm sure each surviving member grieved both deaths differently & healed differently. Anyway, there's no "what if's" in life. John Bonham died & the surviving members ended it & that's all we, the fans, really need or probably are ever going to know. We're not inside Plant,Page, & Jones' heads knowing the why's & why not's so it best to just let it be rather than the endless speculation & myth building about it.

[kaiser]

You're assuming that Keith would "kick it" first...

Mick couldn't go on with The Rolling Stones without Keith,because Keith is The Rolling Stones.

If comments that both Mick and Keith have made over the years are any type of barometer,Mick wouldn't carry on.He's spoken of being "bored" of rock and roll since 1972,maybe even earlier.The main reason he'd continue-or try to-would most likely be financial.

Keith has commented that if it was entirely his choice,they'd keep going until they couldn't.I sincerely believe that if it was up to Keith,he'd literally keep going until he dropped dead onstage.If the Stones ever do break up,I fully expect Keith to keep going musically,one way or another. (X-Pensive Winos,anyone? )

Keith has also said that if Charlie ever quits,so would the Stones.

If Keith dies, we should hang up Rock and Roll and call it a game.

To paraphrase Mr. Richards, he is in fact going to die one day, just not on anyone else's timeline:D

But as you said Keith is the Stones; but to you, myself, & all the other diehard Stones fans. The Stones are two camps: The musical side(Keith) & the financial side (Mick & Prince Rupert Lowenstein). Keith is just happy playing music whether onstage to a 50,000+ audience or alone on a beach in Jamaica. That's just him. However I don't doubt for a second that Jagger would continue without Keith if he could get away with it. During Keith's Toronto bust Jagger was already putting together his wish list of Keith replacements if Keith had to do serious jail time. As you said Jagger is bored with rock and roll but he sure as hell isn't bored with money. Keith's high was heroin, Mick's high was/is receipts.

If the Grim Reaper shows up Keith's door first I hope Keith says to her "Can you give me about an hour & I just have one last thing to do, come if you like". He shows up at Mick's door, smiles, & then cracks him in his big rubber lips. Keith then turns away from Mick's crumpled body & says "Reaper, I've been wanting to do that for 60 years & NOW it was finally all worth it. Ok darlin', I'm all yours. I'll see Brenda over there in a few years, until then I'm going to enjoy my vacation jamming with Hank, Howlin', Muddy & Buddy." If there's any justice, that's how it will all go down.

[Gospel Zone]

Whatever does that mean?

It's a trap to catch IWPOTs (inside). WAA!

I thought your post was in bad taste, especially the Killjoys part and exercised my right of free speech to express my opinion.

That's really pushing the (much over used on this forum) bad taste argument. And considering the length of your post, may I suggest that you may be better off exercising something other than your right to free speech.

I've been reading about and listening (I actually saw them once), to the band for 40 years and there has always been speculation mostly without substance so my knowledge of them is as good as most on here.

Yes I was aware of the legal action against R M & J K and if Densmore was an equal partner and owner of the name then he had every right to object.

Don't give up your day job for a career in comedy.

FYI they toured here a couple of years ago with the singer from The Australian Doors tribute band so they benefitted financially from it.

As for Plant holding up the show, hello, there ain't no show and hasn't been for almost 30 years.

Of course if you had done your research you would have known that the Ahmet tribute concert was a one off and Robert gladly accepted to do it as such for his friend at the behest of Ahmet's family.

After all he has enjoyed a successfull solo career that some on here can't get past and trot out the tired old "it's all Roberts fault" line because as JPJ said, "he doesn't want to play loud music anymore".

Why has JPJ put all his energy into TCV?

Because just like Robert he is where he wants to be musically and hopefully Jimmy will finally realise his own niche when he releases his new music next year.

Insecure, me?

No.

Being an Earth sign I am very grounded!

FYI.

Grounded,

verb:

1. To place on or cause to touch the ground.

2. To provide a basis for (a theory, for example); justify.

3. To supply with basic information; instruct in fundamentals.

4. To prevent (an aircraft or a pilot) from flying.

5. Informal To restrict (someone) especially to a certain place as a punishment.

6. Electricity To connect (an electric circuit) to a ground.

7. Nautical To run (a vessel) aground.

a. Baseball To hit (a ball) onto the ground.

b. Football To throw (a ball) to the ground in order to stop play and avoid being tackled behind the line of scrimmage.

adjective:

1. firmly established

2. practical or realistic

3. natural, sincere, etc.

4. stable, secure, etc.

[Gospel Zone]

If Keith dies, we should hang up Rock and Roll and call it a game.

That would be going against Keith's attitude. If Keith kicks the big bucket, I'm rocking on.

I must add that with all the talk about how old Keith looks, he still looks better than Jimmy Page. Half of what makes Jimmy look old these days is all the stupid facial expressions when he's playing the guitar. Keith, to his credit, has never played the stupid facial expression game.

[59LesPaul]

This is the greatest post ever....

To paraphrase Mr. Richards, he is in fact going to die one day, just not on anyone else's timeline:D

But as you said Keith is the Stones; but to you, myself, & all the other diehard Stones fans. The Stones are two camps: The musical side(Keith) & the financial side (Mick & Prince Rupert Lowenstein). Keith is just happy playing music whether onstage to a 50,000+ audience or alone on a beach in Jamaica. That's just him. However I don't doubt for a second that Jagger would continue without Keith if he could get away with it. During Keith's Toronto bust Jagger was already putting together his wish list of Keith replacements if Keith had to do serious jail time. As you said Jagger is bored with rock and roll but he sure as hell isn't bored with money. Keith's high was heroin, Mick's high was/is receipts.

If the Grim Reaper shows up Keith's door first I hope Keith says to her "Can you give me about an hour & I just have one last thing to do, come if you like". He shows up at Mick's door, smiles, & then cracks him in his big rubber lips. Keith then turns away from Mick's crumpled body & says "Reaper, I've been wanting to do that for 60 years & NOW it was finally all worth it. Ok darlin', I'm all yours. I'll see Brenda over there in a few years, until then I'm going to enjoy my vacation jamming with Hank, Howlin', Muddy & Buddy." If there's any justice, that's how it will all go down.

"if he could get away with it" I think is the key part,but for the most part I agree with you.

This however,I agree with completely:

Imust add that with all the talk about how old Keith looks, he stilllooks better than Jimmy Page. Half of what makes Jimmy look old thesedays is all the stupid facial expressions when he's playing the guitar. Keith, to his credit, has never played the stupid facial expression game.

...but be careful complimenting Keith too much around here...

[Reggie29]

That's really pushing the (much over used on this forum) bad taste argument. And considering the length of your post, may I suggest that you may be better off exercising something other than your right to free speech.

If you can't see why the killjoy comment was not in bad taste (considering the tragedies in Robert's life), then that's very sad.

I apologise if my post was too verbose for you to digest.

Oh, and I do exercise both my body (swimming in my pool) and mind (playing in a band), daily and all year round.

[#1fan]

If you can't see why the killjoy comment was not in bad taste (considering the tragedies in Robert's life), then that's very sad.

I apologise if my post was too verbose for you to digest.

Oh, and I do exercise both my body (swimming in my pool) and mind (playing in a band), daily and all year round.

It wasn't in bad taste at all. You act like Roberts the only one who ever had a tragedy,stop being so anal. I had way worse happen to me, and I have a sense of humor still.

[Reggie29]

It wasn't in bad taste at all. You act like Roberts the only one who ever had a tragedy,stop being so anal. I had way worse happen to me, and I have a sense of humor still.

So have I and others including RP but I don't joke about it.

And I have a hell of a sense of humour.

Cheers.

[#1fan]

Not like he said anything about his tragedies, just a joke on his bands old name.

[Mangani]

I must add that with all the talk about how old Keith looks, he still looks better than Jimmy Page.

Tell me you're on the wind up? Please. You've gotta be kiddin' me???? Keith Richards looks better (age wise) than Jimmy Page? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Jimmy Page actually looks graceful and classy.

Half of what makes Jimmy look old these days is all the stupid facial expressions when he's playing the guitar. Keith, to his credit, has never played the stupid facial expression game.

That's because 'Keef' never did half the stuff Jimmy did with the guitar. Jimmy pushed guitar playing to the absolute limit and then some. 'Keef' could never do something like Since I've Been Loving You for example. The emotion that pours out of Jimmy's guitar there is mind blowing. You can't play with emotion like that and keep the face of a dead wet kipper.

What next, you gonna complain about Bonzo's "stupid facial expressions" when he yelled like a bear while bashing the skins with monstrous gusto???

[Gospel Zone]

Tell me you're on the wind up? Please. You've gotta be kiddin' me???? Keith Richards looks better (age wise) than Jimmy Page? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Jimmy Page actually looks graceful and classy.

That's because 'Keef' never did half the stuff Jimmy did with the guitar. Jimmy pushed guitar playing to the absolute limit and then some. 'Keef' could never do something like Since I've Been Loving You for example. The emotion that pours out of Jimmy's guitar there is mind blowing. You can't play with emotion like that and keep the face of a dead wet kipper.

What next, you gonna complain about Bonzo's "stupid facial expressions" when he yelled like a bear while bashing the skins with monstrous gusto???

Using a little psychology, this could be an indication that Keith is not trying to present himself as anything other than what he is. Can this be said of the many guitarists who do "the facial expression thing"? The facial expressions are a bluff, meaning to impress, deter, or intimidate by a false display of confidence and I'd say that Keith looks more confident playing the guitar than he does doing anything else.

By the way, Jeff Beck doesn't play that game either.

[kaiser]

I don't know how this became a weird Keith/Page thing but my 2 cents on the matter:

Keith does make some very odd stage movements. It started around the Stones '81 tour after he was off of heroin. He does this weird arm & leg thing. It wasn't so bad then but that's where it starts. During his X-Pensive Wino's tour in '88 is when it really starts up. He punctuates every 5 or so chords he plays by raising his arm, throws a little kick, & purses his lips. I could see him doing that when he's mainly singing as he may want to make himself the focal point onstage as far as being more of a physical presence. Then on the Steel Wheels tour he continues with this "thing", more with the arm swing & leg kick for no reason, stops playing guitar on whatever song it is especially if there's loads of horns, keyboards, & background singers in the mix, he'll have a chat with Woody & crack up & he'll start "playing" the song again after a full minute of not playing where a guitar part should have been all along, & Wood certainly wasn't picking up the slack. He did this on every tour through 2002 on most of the songs played. He stopped the slacking off & posing bit on the 2005 tour to a degree but he'll still do it during his solo parts of the show with the male background singer playing Keith's guitar parts as Ron Wood has barely played a note in 20 years. It's bizarre. I say all of this as a Keith fan & the only reason I commented on it is that I while I agree that Page certainly does all his strange on stage things, Keith is by far a worse offender of that sort of thing. Just watch him do "The Nearness Of You" on the Stones 40 Licks DVD or anything except "Satisfaction" on The Bridges To Babylon DVD. But that's just him & he's having a good time.