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zepprules

Did Plant's voice change later days of Zeppelin?

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Just joined this board and have a question. Was Plant's voice quality slightly better his early days vs the latter with Zeppelin? I think his voice was great during the latter days but IMO even better from say '68 to '73. No one sang harder than Plant and have wondered if his style maybe depleted his range a bit over the years.

Thoughts?

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Yes he had surgery on his vocal chords somewhere around 73 or 74 but he got some of his range back by the last tour.

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Performances of Since I've been loving you, like the one at Glastonbury 1995 with Page, show that after the end of Zeppelin he got all of his range back, but in the latter days of Zeppelin, he just couldn't hit the highest notes, because he burned out his voice in the early days, with really a lot of touring and really loud singing. He also had a surgery, but it didn't seem to help much, as his voice was even worse after it, on the 75 tour. He probably started to sing too early after the surgery and the surgery probably doesn't return the singers voice to it's old glory, it just helps a bit!

I said that after Zeppelin he got all his range back, but the thing is his voice doesn't sound the same on some of the high notes, because it sounds tired and like he is struggling a bit and so he sings some of the songs lower, but the performances of Since i've been loving you in the 90-ies with Page were really fantastic and he sings his highest notes!!

Link to Since I've been loving you at Glastonbury 1995:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=1aixZ3wqOis

Edited by Matjaz1

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Just joined this board and have a question. Was Plant's voice quality slightly better his early days vs the latter with Zeppelin?

Slightly better is an understatement. His voice was a million miles better in the early days. There is a world of difference in Robert's voice from the first album to the last. It doesn't even sound like the same singer.

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Songs like Kashmir, Ten years gone, Achilles last stand, Nobody's fault but mine, Carouselambra, All of my love and I'm gonna crawl are still sung fantasticaly, because they are not sung as high as earlier songs, so his voice could still be great even in the latter days!!

But something like Communication breakdown didn't really work anymore in the latter days and that was very obvious at Knewbworth, when they played that song.

Besides the fact that he couldn't hit the highest notes, his voice also sounded tired, raspy and it cracked quite a lot in the latter days even on the notes he could still reach.

Now his voice still sounds a bit tired and like he is struggling a bit at times, compared to early Zep days, but the overall sound of his voice is much better now, then in the latter days of Zep and he can once again hit all of his high notes, but he avoids some of them, because some of them still don't sound that good, even if they sound better then in the latter Zep days!!

Edited by Matjaz1

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Songs like Kashmir, Ten years gone, Achilles last stand, Nobody's fault but mine, Carouselambra, All of my love and I'm gonna crawl are still sung fantasticaly, because they are not sung as high as earlier songs, so his voice could still be great even in the latter days!!

But something like Communication breakdown didn't really work anymore in the latter days and that was very obvious at Knewbworth, when they played that song.

Besides the fact that he couldn't hit the highest notes, his voice also sounded tired, raspy and it cracked quite a lot in the latter days even on the notes he could still reach.

Now his voice still sounds a bit tired and like he is struggling a bit at times, compared to early Zep days, but the overall sound of his voice is much better now, then in the latter days of Zep and he can once again hit all of his high notes, but he avoids some of them, because some of them still don't sound that good, even if they sound better then in the latter Zep days!!

I don't think his voice sounds tired at all, in fact I think these last few years he's sounded fantastic. But I don't measure his voice being good or bad relating to whether he sings like he did at 19. I saw several shows with Alison Krauss and he was in top form for all of them. I think he avoids those high notes in part because that's not the style he sings in anymore. That was then, this is now :)

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Just joined this board and have a question. Was Plant's voice quality slightly better his early days vs the latter with Zeppelin? I think his voice was great during the latter days but IMO even better from say '68 to '73. No one sang harder than Plant and have wondered if his style maybe depleted his range a bit over the years.

Thoughts?

IMHO, I thought his voice was great early and late. It was in the middle day's that he had some issues with it live. FWIW, when I saw him on his first solo tour I felt his voice sounded better than I'd heard in years.

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I don't think his voice sounds tired at all, in fact I think these last few years he's sounded fantastic. But I don't measure his voice being good or bad relating to whether he sings like he did at 19. I saw several shows with Alison Krauss and he was in top form for all of them. I think he avoids those high notes in part because that's not the style he sings in anymore. That was then, this is now smile.gif

I agrre he sounds really good these days and i agrre that many times he avoids the highest notes, because his style has changed, but at the reunion concert many songs were played a tone lower, because his voice just sounded better a note lower, but with Whole lotta love, Kashmir and especially Since I've been loving you, which were all played at the original height, he still proved, he can hit all the high notes.

And he also proved in the nineties, that he can also sing many songs like for example Rock and roll greatly at the original height, but i guess he still thought that for the reunion concert those very high songs would sound a bit better a tone lower, because his voice does sound a bit tired at times and like he is struggling a bit if he goes very high!!

But i'm shure he can still sing Rock and roll at the original height, if he could ten years ago!!

But anyway, it's not that important if he sings a few notes higher or lower, what matters is, that he is and always was a really great singer!!

Here is Rock and roll from 1998(it doesn't say where the concert was):

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=u56PyMTl2sg

Edited by Matjaz1

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The last year Plant had the "Zeppelin wail" was in 77, which he somehow managed to retain after the brutal 75 tour. I've said on here in numerous threads the biggest drop off was between the 77 tour and the 79 shows. His voice sounds completely different. But by no means does it mean he still couldn't perform. I've seen him twice in the last decade; one show is voice was strained and hoarse because it was mid-tour, the other he sounded phenomenal and nailed the high notes in WLL. ;)

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Just joined this board and have a question. Was Plant's voice quality slightly better his early days vs the latter with Zeppelin? I think his voice was great during the latter days but IMO even better from say '68 to '73. No one sang harder than Plant and have wondered if his style maybe depleted his range a bit over the years.

Thoughts?

Thoughts? What a dumb f'n question. :rolleyes: Uh...did your voice change from age 19 to 29-30?? :slapface:

Gawd!

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I agrre he sounds really good these days and i agrre that many times he avoids the highest notes, because his style has changed, but at the reunion concert many songs were played a tone lower, because his voice just sounded better a note lower, but with Whole lotta love, Kashmir and especially Since I've been loving you, which were all played at the original height, he still proved, he can hit all the high notes.

And he also proved in the nineties, that he can also sing many songs like for example Rock and roll greatly at the original height, but i guess he still thought that for the reunion concert those very high songs would sound a bit better a tone lower, because his voice does sound a bit tired at times and like he is struggling a bit if he goes very high!!

But i'm shure he can still sing Rock and roll at the original height, if he could ten years ago!!

But anyway, it's not that it important if he sings a few notes higher or lower, what matters is, that he is and always was a really great singer!!

Here is Rock and roll from 1998(it doesn't say where the concert was):

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=u56PyMTl2sg

You keep using the word tired but i have never found his voice tired.

Can you name any singer in aband who's voice is/was the same 12 years+ later?

I can't. Could/can Daltry still hit it every time? Jagger, Bowie, The answer is no of course they could't/can't.

Voices change over time as we get older, mine has and i can't sing but it is different.

Singersa re bounnd to change after years of gruelling touring, rememeber Robert was iinging very long demanding songs for over 3 hours a night on very long tours. That would hit anyone's vocal cords.

At 19 he was so high in his range but I think he learned to use his voice differently even with Zep, he had to given the stress he put it under.

Over the past few years I thnk he uses his voice more appropriately given the songs he sings and his age.

It seems some people think he should still be able to sing like that 19 year old. I am more realistic about his singing.

I saw him many times with Strange Sensation and believe me his voice was anything but tired and the hairs on my neck were and still are raised when I hear him hit notes he has no right to be able to hit.

And regardless of what people negatively felt about changing the tone for the 02 show he still wiped the floor over any other singer young and old. B) In many ways he has become a better vocalist as he has gotten older in the way he uses his voice.

So the answer to the threads question is YES it did change.

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One thing I would add here is that you have to adapt stylistically to the kind of music you're actually singing at each point. If you just take the albums, Robert sounded quite a bit differently on ITTOD than on the earlier ones, as somebody already mentioned. But if you think about it, even if his voice hadn't changed, and it had been a real option for Robert to sing in the same manner as he had on the first few albums, it would have been out of place - just not right for the songs.

This is no accident, and it's not due only to the fact that the band kept moving on musically (although it certainly did), but also to different songwriters. It really isn't that much of a simplification to say that the music on all the previous albums was written simply by Jimmy Page - by which I don't mean that the others didn't contribute important things to it, but that they were basically moving within what was his ideas for songs, his riffs, and so on. This wasn't the case on ITTOD: nearly all the music on that album was written by Jonesy and Robert himself, and it's different. Jimmy's role is totally different. For Robert to sing this material in a different way than he used to, was simply good artistic sense.

We are all likely to have different opinions on the different periods. If you happen to love the vocals on the first albums, practically bursting with youthful energy, incredible power and of course great range, you may not necessarily like his later approach as much. But that's not to say it was an actual option for Robert to go on singing in that style. His voice kept changing, and so did the band. Live he was certainly struggling at times in the mid seventies, but he remained the only right singer for the band. His singing on Presence is astonishing - and to think he did that in a wheel chair! We have to remember he was basically a kid when he sang on the first album, and he gained a lot of maturity and artistic sense over the years. He probably lost something as well - after all his early acrobatics actually worked, and weren't out of place - but all that can be evaluated in different ways. What can not be debated as far as I'm concerned is that he was so right for the band you can't even begin to imagine it with a different singer; and this at all points in the band's career.

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One thing I would add here is that you have to adapt stylistically to the kind of music you're actually singing at each point. If you just take the albums, Robert sounded quite a bit differently on ITTOD than on the earlier ones, as somebody already mentioned. But if you think about it, even if his voice hadn't changed, and it had been a real option for Robert to sing in the same manner as he had on the first few albums, it would have been out of place - just not right for the songs.

This is no accident, and it's not due only to the fact that the band kept moving on musically (although it certainly did), but also to different songwriters. It really isn't that much of a simplification to say that the music on all the previous albums was written simply by Jimmy Page - by which I don't mean that the others didn't contribute important things to it, but that they were basically moving within what was his ideas for songs, his riffs, and so on. This wasn't the case on ITTOD: nearly all the music on that album was written by Jonesy and Robert himself, and it's different. Jimmy's role is totally different. For Robert to sing this material in a different way than he used to, was simply good artistic sense.

We are all likely to have different opinions on the different periods. If you happen to love the vocals on the first albums, practically bursting with youthful energy, incredible power and of course great range, you may not necessarily like his later approach as much. But that's not to say it was an actual option for Robert to go on singing in that style. His voice kept changing, and so did the band. Live he was certainly struggling at times in the mid seventies, but he remained the only right singer for the band. His singing on Presence is astonishing - and to think he did that in a wheel chair! We have to remember he was basically a kid when he sang on the first album, and he gained a lot of maturity and artistic sense over the years. He probably lost something as well - after all his early acrobatics actually worked, and weren't out of place - but all that can be evaluated in different ways. What can not be debated as far as I'm concerned is that he was so right for the band you can't even begin to imagine it with a different singer; and this at all points in the band's career.

Nicely put Otto B)

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One thing I would add here is that you have to adapt stylistically to the kind of music you're actually singing at each point. If you just take the albums, Robert sounded quite a bit differently on ITTOD than on the earlier ones, as somebody already mentioned. But if you think about it, even if his voice hadn't changed, and it had been a real option for Robert to sing in the same manner as he had on the first few albums, it would have been out of place - just not right for the songs.

This is no accident, and it's not due only to the fact that the band kept moving on musically (although it certainly did), but also to different songwriters. It really isn't that much of a simplification to say that the music on all the previous albums was written simply by Jimmy Page - by which I don't mean that the others didn't contribute important things to it, but that they were basically moving within what was his ideas for songs, his riffs, and so on. This wasn't the case on ITTOD: nearly all the music on that album was written by Jonesy and Robert himself, and it's different. Jimmy's role is totally different. For Robert to sing this material in a different way than he used to, was simply good artistic sense.

We are all likely to have different opinions on the different periods. If you happen to love the vocals on the first albums, practically bursting with youthful energy, incredible power and of course great range, you may not necessarily like his later approach as much. But that's not to say it was an actual option for Robert to go on singing in that style. His voice kept changing, and so did the band. Live he was certainly struggling at times in the mid seventies, but he remained the only right singer for the band. His singing on Presence is astonishing - and to think he did that in a wheel chair! We have to remember he was basically a kid when he sang on the first album, and he gained a lot of maturity and artistic sense over the years. He probably lost something as well - after all his early acrobatics actually worked, and weren't out of place - but all that can be evaluated in different ways. What can not be debated as far as I'm concerned is that he was so right for the band you can't even begin to imagine it with a different singer; and this at all points in the band's career.

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^ Oops! Meant to add that the first time I heard "In The Evening" I would have sworn that wasn't Robert Plant on vocals.

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I see this board is not unlike others in that it has its share of rude, mindless dolts, but thanks go out to the thoughtful responses.

Edited by zepprules

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I see this board is not unlike others in that it has its share of rude, mindless dolts, but thanks go out to the thoughtful responses.

Yes, it's true. You sometimes need a thick skin to traverse the forums, but there are alot of nice informative people here so don't be discouraged. What seems obvious to those that know is not to those who ask the question.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

Edited by ledzepfvr

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boohoo.gif Oh..grow up. It's been discussed to death here. If you would take time to LOOK you'd find it.

dolt. baby.gif

Ah, your'e one of "those". Not worth anyone's time

run.gif

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Just joined this board and have a question. Was Plant's voice quality slightly better his early days vs the latter with Zeppelin? I think his voice was great during the latter days but IMO even better from say '68 to '73. No one sang harder than Plant and have wondered if his style maybe depleted his range a bit over the years.

Thoughts?

Welcome zepprules!

Hopefully I can share with you my humble opinion. I will refer to "Whole Lotta Love". If you take a listen to the:

1970 RAH

Earls Court 1975

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLhLb0Bn0Os

Knebworth 1979

I did not see any of these above live. I saw them in 73 and 75 and both shows were beyond words! When they started Robert was barely 20, so naturally his voice would change. They also toured extensively, so maybe some nights his voice was worn out. But even on his- what people would call not so better days, he was better than anyone on their best day.

Also notice that each performance is different as they never sounded exactly the same live, which would also effect how Robert would sing the song I would imagine IMHO.

Edited by Deborah J

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I see this board is not unlike others in that it has its share of rude, mindless dolts, but thanks go out to the thoughtful responses.

Every flower garden has a few weeds in it. But all things aside,vocal fatigue can be a difficult thing to deal with. Precautions & therapy are necessary if regular performances are required. It is possible to damage the vocal cords & supporting structure by "over singing",something difficult to suppress when you're surrounded by Marshalls & Ludwigs. Surgery can help,but can never correct the affliction (ask Elton). In my own experience in the '70's,my band(s) often performed six nights out of seven. With three or four Zeps on the sheet,I'm supprised I can still type, let alone sing. The afore mensioned caution & therapy,taught to me by a British E,N & T specialist,saved me,so to speak,and I can still sing Zep numbers O T R,a jaw dropper to most Folks. Ol' Robert did an amasing job handleing the vocals in Led Zepplin,over the years,and deserves every Quid. He also has the ability,and the artistic licence, to modify when necessay, a talent within a talent.

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Every flower garden has a few weeds in it. But all things aside,vocal fatigue can be a difficult thing to deal with. Precautions & therapy are necessary if regular performances are required. It is possible to damage the vocal cords & supporting structure by "over singing",something difficult to suppress when you're surrounded by Marshalls & Ludwigs. Surgery can help,but can never correct the affliction (ask Elton). In my own experience in the '70's,my band(s) often performed six nights out of seven. With three or four Zeps on the sheet,I'm supprised I can still type, let alone sing. The afore mensioned caution & therapy,taught to me by a British E,N & T specialist,saved me,so to speak,and I can still sing Zep numbers O T R,a jaw dropper to most Folks. Ol' Robert did an amasing job handleing the vocals in Led Zepplin,over the years,and deserves every Quid. He also has the ability,and the artistic licence, to modify when necessay, a talent within a talent.

Yes, this subject has been covered many times, but here I go again:

My opinion is that Robert's voice burned out around end 1972. Specific problems appear right at the beginning of the Japanese tour. His incredible head voice / falsetto which propelled many Zep tracks became a problem and he had to force himself to sing in his real voice in 1973 - adding to the power of the track (WLL in TSRTS is a good example). Generally his voice became less reliable - if you listen to "Rock and Roll" from 1973 - it was evident that he had (1) a bad case of the nerves most times he went on and (2) his voice would take time to warm up.

Robert wasn't a trained singer and like many, he developed nodules in the throat which added to the rough and raspy sound you hear in his voice in TSRTS and some Physical Graffiti tracks like Custard Pie. It really didn't help with booze, parties, cigarettes, drugs and long concerts either.

By 1975, with Robert having the flu - his voice is pretty much shot for the tour. He regains some power here and there, but he actually sounds much clearer in 1977. He does regain some clarity in his notes.

By 1980, his voice has mellowed a tad more, but he's able to hit Stairway to Heaven notes again.

In a sense, Robert's notes were mostly always there - his struggle was really psychological and having enough practice and being in a comfortable zone. I think he could hit the notes on Black Dog if he wanted to generally (not now) but it became a matter of being able to sustain that. Without his patented head voice and shriek, it became less natural for him to do that. Robert in that sense, stopped being a rock singer and evolved into his own voice. Which enabled him as some pointed out, to develop new styles of music. It would've been odd for him to sing in his 1969 voice moving onwards. Everyone mellows out.

When we listen to other rockers like Coverdale and Hagar, they still pretty much have their high screaming notes intact, but they never produced the music that Plant and Zep did.

Also, unlike Daltrey or Bowie, Robert had a lot more notes in his range and consequently, had more to lose. Generally, Robert's voice by his own admission - has been plagued by inconsistency and rustiness. I think he got really comfortable with his voice just before the Fate of Nations album when I saw him live and he began doing Zep songs again. He was finding the balance.

Edited by georgio

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Robert in that sense, stopped being a rock singer and evolved into his own voice. Which enabled him as some pointed out, to develop new styles of music.

Disagree with this part, if you are familiar with the music and different bands Robert were interested in, you'll see he has never been "only" a rock singer. To say that his new styles developed because of his changed is unfair.

And I aslo disagree that DC kept most of his screaming notes, Sammy on the other hand, ok.

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