Four Sticks

[Topogigio]

I listened to Four Sticks yesterday as I had so many times before. This is no doubt a great song, but the studio recording always sounded empty to me. The sound and energy is just not there and Robert's tone just does not sound right. It really bothers me to know how this song may have or should have sounded.

I noticed yesterday that Plant's voice sounds a little fast. Did Jimmy decided to speed up the track and run it faster than the recorded rate? Is this what's bothering me about this song?

[zepps_apprentice]

it does seem a tad faster. its still a very very good song. but yeah i agree studio doesnt match up with live

[mikezep61]

Perhaps it's because the master tape of "Four Sticks" was lost (according to Robert Plant in a 11/13/71 Disc and Music Echo interview).

[badgeholder]

Live? They tried it ONCE - in Copenhagen '71 - it was a chaotic mess and they never did it again. Unless you're referring to Page / Plant

[zepps_apprentice]

Live? They tried it ONCE - in Copenhagen '71 - it was a chaotic mess and they never did it again. Unless you're referring to Page / Plant

dang. yeah i was referring to Page and Plant. i just got everything mixed up, my bad

[Yupter]

Live? They tried it ONCE - in Copenhagen '71 - it was a chaotic mess and they never did it again. Unless you're referring to Page / Plant

You thought it was a chaotic mess? How strange...

[DragonTelecaster]

Hmm...I can share my opinion as to why Four Sticks sounds vastly better in the Page/Plant recording as opposed to the original studio release.

I believe the studio release was played in standard E-A-D-G-B-E tuning. In the Page/Plan recording, Jimmy's guitar, an Ovation double-neck, is tuned to D-C-G-F-A-D, as is Gallows Pole. This alternate tuning sounds better than standard tuning. Well, having an orchestra and percussion section backing you up doesn't hurt either!

As for Plant's vocals, the live version is much, much better. The studio version is borderline bizarre. Plant improvising at the end of the song is great, but the tone and pitch is too high. It could be as another poster pointed out, Page may have altered the speed of the recording to achieve that pitch. Who knows?

Still, I like both versions, but prefer the Page/Plant version.

[fsmith9095]

Here's the first minute of an alternate take of "Four Sticks"

[kirchzep27]

plant carried that approach to his vocals, over on the houses of the holy record too. i like how bonham stays steady on that tribal drum pattern throughout the whole song, with just adding cymbals on the acoustic and synth sections. bonham doesnt allow any space, so that gives the song a very interesting effect. its a distinctive song and i guess they just wanted to make a really distinctive version of it, for that record. with the raw sound that it has, it sounds like it could have been on physical graffiti. in a way, it captures that fifth element/collective band element, better than any other song on the album...or in the most original way.

[Matjaz1]

I listened to Four Sticks yesterday as I had so many times before. This is no doubt a great song, but the studio recording always sounded empty to me. The sound and energy is just not there and Robert's tone just does not sound right. It really bothers me to know how this song may have or should have sounded.

I noticed yesterday that Plant's voice sounds a little fast. Did Jimmy decided to speed up the track and run it faster than the recorded rate? Is this what's bothering me about this song?

Maybe it's the two extra sticks Bonzo is using, that bother you!! It's actually very cool, but perhaps you are not aware of it and it will bother you, until you are not fully conscious, that he is using four sticks!!But i'm basicaly joking!!

I think it's a cool song, but there are are many better songs on Zep IV!! But it's still good and i especially like the part, after the middle instrumental section, when Robert comes in with the last verse!! It just soooooooooo intense!!!!

Edited February 28, 2010 by Matjaz1

[zepps_apprentice]

You thought it was a chaotic mess? How strange...

it wasnt THAT bad

[huw]

Also worth pointing out that the LP version is heavily compressed, whereas most of their stuff wasn't (not to the same degree) so by comparision it can sound like the dynamic range is a little flatter than we're used to hearing from them.

[BIGDAN]

Hi All,

I must say that i never have had a problem with Four Sticks or any other Led Zeppelin song, i just have a problem with all of their critics, always have and always will.

Who am i to judge what a group of "Geniuses" get up to in their spare time when all i and others can do is a poor imitation, the biggest critic of their music would, and should be themselves, I'm just happy for the privilege to have seen and heard their Musical Masterpieces first hand, and still do every single day, to the boys who gave it to us.

Regards, Danny

"All my tears they fell like rain, cant you see them falling?"

[Janet]

This is a unique song and the unusual time signature mesmerizes me. Every time I listen to it I try to beat out the time and it is quite a challenge. I don't know how to compare it to other songs on LZ IV, they are all different and each is a masterpiece.

[kirchzep27]

Also worth pointing out that the LP version is heavily compressed, whereas most of their stuff wasn't (not to the same degree) so by comparision it can sound like the dynamic range is a little flatter than we're used to hearing from them.

yeah, you can hear how flat it sounds at the intro and right after the synth section. it sounds like they used that on physical graffiti and walking into clarksdale too. it was good for physical graffiti, for rougher sounding riffs and songs with texture. if one doesnt like four sticks in general, they might really not like it with more dynamic range, clearer. thinking about the vibe of that song though, if you listen to friends and ramble on, you can see where the acoustic jamming was so good for led zeppelin's creativity. with the indian or whatever inspired vocals by plant, immigrant song, tsrts, achilles...a great style of singing for him and the music. i wonder what the discussion was over the use of the synth in that song.

[DMachine]

Also worth pointing out that the LP version is heavily compressed, whereas most of their stuff wasn't (not to the same degree) so by comparision it can sound like the dynamic range is a little flatter than we're used to hearing from them.

That's my thought also. Maybe Page liked that overall effect ...

[zepps_apprentice]

Hi All,

I must say that i never have had a problem with Four Sticks or any other Led Zeppelin song, i just have a problem with all of their critics, always have and always will.

Who am i to judge what a group of "Geniuses" get up to in their spare time when all i and others can do is a poor imitation, the biggest critic of their music would, and should be themselves, I'm just happy for the privilege to have seen and heard their Musical Masterpieces first hand, and still do every single day, to the boys who gave it to us.

Regards, Danny

"All my tears they fell like rain, cant you see them falling?"

agreed. i love this song, like every other Zeppelin song. i have yet to find 1 even remotely bad Zeppelin song, and I DARE someone to.

[slave to zep]

well i love four sticks. the studio version and the page/plant one.

i think the sound on the original was meant to be that way, something different. it made it stand out. hey, we're still talking about it nearly 40 years later ....

[georgio]

I've always found Four Sticks "screechy" and the kind of song where Plant was really cutting his throat out. I'm not surprised if he actually damaged his voice screaming his lungs out like that and I suspect that's why it doesn't sound comfortable for some listeners.

Some songs like Out on the Tiles from Led Zep III - were clearly not that comfortable for Plant and tiring to sing live (refer to Blueberry Hill). With cigarettes, booze and a rock and roll lifestyle, it's no wonder Plant's voice gave out. He was a brilliant singer, but he paid the price.

The Copenhagen live version wasn't bad as I recalled it and was pretty close vocally to the studio version. A faithful rendition when Plant could do pretty much anything with his voice - and did.

Edited March 3, 2010 by georgio

[zepps_apprentice]

I've always found Four Sticks "screechy" and the kind of song where Plant was really cutting his throat out. I'm not surprised if he actually damaged his voice screaming his lungs out like that and I suspect that's why it doesn't sound comfortable for some listeners.

Some songs like Out on the Tiles from Led Zep III - were clearly not that comfortable for Plant and tiring to sing live (refer to Blueberry Hill). With cigarettes, booze and a rock and roll lifestyle, it's no wonder Plant's voice gave out. He was a brilliant singer, but he paid the price.

The Copenhagen live version wasn't bad as I recalled it and was pretty close vocally to the studio version. A faithful rendition when Plant could do pretty much anything with his voice - and did.

i guess. i liked his voice in the early days better, i think everyone does, but he didnt get THAT much worse as he aged. '77, '75 he was sick, so i cant complain about that.

[kirchzep27]

it would be interesting to hear a version of four sticks, recorded the way houses of the holy was recorded.

[jpp1944q]

Hmm...I can share my opinion as to why Four Sticks sounds vastly better in the Page/Plant recording as opposed to the original studio release.

I believe the studio release was played in standard E-A-D-G-B-E tuning. In the Page/Plan recording, Jimmy's guitar, an Ovation double-neck, is tuned to D-C-G-F-A-D, as is Gallows Pole. This alternate tuning sounds better than standard tuning. Well, having an orchestra and percussion section backing you up doesn't hurt either!

As for Plant's vocals, the live version is much, much better. The studio version is borderline bizarre. Plant improvising at the end of the song is great, but the tone and pitch is too high. It could be as another poster pointed out, Page may have altered the speed of the recording to achieve that pitch. Who knows?

Still, I like both versions, but prefer the Page/Plant version.

page's washburn dbl-neck,to my ears,because page is probably using the thinnest strigs possible,sounds like page is plucking rubber bands.a terrible,characterless tone.

[ddot]

omg four sticks is the one of my favorite productions, it represents the complete mastery, in many ways simple, but subtle tension and release, the vocals are in another relm, hanginging ahead of the beat and then falling into the complete utter pocket, this is the prelude to kashmere from an arraingment perspective. no other band has this tone, they own the space, the contrasting moods conjure, should I say it, existential reality, the hollowness is in your mind, it is a journey, not over done short and sweet, it is not happy but a reflection of a nuanced reality that only Led Zeppelin could have crystalized the vision for us, especially in context with the whole album, it goes there, to me this song is the genius that is Led zeppelin as a whole, not a wisper of a guitar solo or a classic bohnam fill, the vocal tone is crazy, it is the branching out into those other worlds, the prelude to houses of the holy, it is distant and in your face at the same time, very much a dream, i can hear the essence of every cool steve tyler riff in there, I mean come on this is the road map.

[Zep 4 Life]

I love this song. The drum/guitar combination is simply amazing. It's got an 'in you face' feel without being completely over the top.

[SummrMoon]

Okay...first post. Just have to chime in that Four Sticks is one of my all-time fav Zep songs...simply mesmerizes me. Like someone else said (better) it represents to me what Zep could do that other bands of the time couldn't or didn't. Love the site, BTW.