Your Opinion of Rap

[beetleron]

ah well

back on topic i think...........yeh......i like rap

this seems groovey (even though we lost )

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=fJNC3dgreaU

ahhhhh..........the birth of rap ...........kind of a jazz hybrid............don'tcha think?

got no problem with it

just wanted to show you boys what the 80s was like

[Electrophile]

And maybe you're racist for assuming that the ape in that picture is supposed to represent a black person. I don't think there is text anywhere that says, "this represents a black person." You made that assumption yourself. Shame on you.

HAHAHAHA. Nice try Sparky, but no sale. Maybe you need to do a little research on racial stereotypes in America.....from about the 1800s to the 1960s and realize that the term "porch monkey" was not an endearing sobriquet. Nor were all the allusions to gorillas and the strongest slaves on the plantation. See I read books and I learn things. I also live in the South, where a lot of those stereotypes and ignorant sayings are still alive and well today, and it's 2010.

I did love your attempt at deflection by trying to throw the racist label back on me. That was so cute. Lame and about a trillion times off-base, but cute. I noticed Jahfin made the same inference that I did, yet you said nothing to him. Maybe you need to take a step back and think that if more than one person draws the same conclusion......that's the conclusion to be drawn.

[kaiser]

Lol, of course I knew this thread would touch upon racism with a few people who couldn't resist getting their cowardly passive/aggressive shots in at a music genre they don't like by pulling out their own race cards. I'm not complaining or think that these few should even be censored because I enjoy it when the ignorant reveal themselves as I don't have to second guess their intentions.

Calling all rap racist is as ridiculous as calling any other genre of music wholly racist. Is all country music racist because in the 60's Johnny Rebel wrote a song called "Nigger Hatin' Me"? Songs like that may make African-Americans feel that country music is indeed racist based on a song like that but I don't believe they would be right in thinking so because of this specific individual is an obvious & proud racist. Country artist David Allan Coe also wrote & performed many of his own racist & sexist gems like "Nigger Fucker" & "One Monkey" (which MMAharaja might want to give a listen to) as well as "Pussy Whipped Again" & "Don't Bite The Dick". David Allan Coe has many supporters, Kid Rock being one of them, who defend him as being ironic & being a social commentator. Well I know quite a few David Allan Coe fans personally, some whom I call friends, & they're not listening to those songs for the "social commentary" but because they reflect their own racist & sexist views. So David Allan Coe, misunderstood genuis? Maybe. Some of his fans that I know personally? Hardly.

Then we get into rock music. I love the Rolling Stones & personally I don't think they have a racist bone in their collective body. I don't think there's another white band ever who has given black artists & even black culture more vocal service than the Stones. Yet, if I were an African-American might I have a problem with the song "Brown Sugar" because the song is about slave rape? Maybe I would. Incidentally "Brown Sugar" was originally titled "Black Pussy" but Mick Jagger changed it to a term that could also be construed to mean a type of heroin, which has nothing to do with the songs lyrics. The song doesn't seem to support or be against plantation owners & their work hands having forced sex with slaves, but it sure does sound like a good time in the song. Mick Jagger has said recently he wouldn't write a song like that today, that he would censor himself if he did. There's also the song "Some Girls". Basically it breaks down almost every race of woman into a sexual stereotype in which the Stones got into a bit of controversy with Jesse Jackson over the line "Black girls just want to get fucked all night". Jagger's response was that Jackson couldn't take a joke. Keith Richards response was "Maybe we just met a few extra horny black chicks along the way". Could that be viewed as racist? Sure. I don't believe it is though, not because I want to believe it's not racist, simply because I know enough about the Stones view of black culture & it's people across the world that there is no hate or malice in their views, it's a genuine love. Someone else who didn't know that could put a spin on those songs & their comments to make it appear as if they did have racist views though if they didn't like the band for whatever reason.

There's also Guns 'N' Roses, whom I'm not a fan of for many reasons, so I won't get into the racist,sexist, & homophobic charges against them because I think my own bias against Axl Rose would color my own statements about him/them as it were. But regardless of my views of Guns 'N' Roses as a band, hard rock music would not be a racist form of music if Guns 'N' Roses/Axl Rose happend to be themselves/himself, it would just mean that artist would be if that were the case.

Punk music, a personal favorite genre of mine, is filled with plenty of racist numbskulls from many different lands & I would resent anyone to label punk racist because of those jackasses. The "Rock Against Racism" movement in England stemmed from some punks not wanting that b.s. involved in the genre. I've had my skinhead friends in my time, still do, who loved themselves some Skrewdriver when they were in their teens. Now the ones I'm still friends with that are in their 30's don't listen to that stuff anymore, because they grew up & saw their narrow view of the world wasn't the reality. Some still have the skin look just as I still have what's left of my 50's quiff & Dr Martens ala Paul Simonon from The Clash. And trust me I get looks from people who know me when I hangout with those former skins, my Puerto Rican ex girlfriend for one, but then you introduce these seemingly different people to eachother & they hit it off instantly. It would be fair to say these former "skins" are the ones who get the look of bias from my other friends black, hispanic, white, gay, you name it lol. It's true but at the end of the day it's a love fest, as it should be.

To end this rant after my examples in three different genres of music, my original point again is that it's weak to label an entire genre of art racist or sexist or homophobic due to a few & because one is grasping at straws to defend the reasons of why they don't like the genre. If you don't like it because it's not pleasing to your ears that is reason enough, anything else is just pure fluff.

[Gospel Zone]

No

Some specific rap artists may be, just like you'll find some rock music is.

So it's no and yes. Some of the rappers are looking for a racial argument anyway, sort of like an acquaintance of mine who wears the short shirts and high heels just right and then gets offened that guys are staring at her.

[dazedcat]

Well you learn something new every day. I was actually alive in the 1960's but never heard of Johnny Rebel and never heard of that song either. Radio stations where I lived would never have played such a thing.

I knew once a photo of a gorilla was posted the conversation would go downhill on a sled.......and it has.

I still have little use for hip hop, sorry.

[zeppphead]

The above posts comparing rap and rock are a fine example of the ignorance that runs rampant at this board, not to mention the racist overtones that are somehow allowed here.

Chill dude! Just saw two amusing articles and thought posting them here would be a nice idea.... Didn't mean to hurt anybody's feeling! I'm extremely sorry if it did! And of course, comparing two genres of music is nonsense.

[kaiser]

Well you learn something new every day. I was actually alive in the 1960's but never heard of Johnny Rebel and never heard of that song either. Radio stations where I lived would never have played such a thing.

I knew once a photo of a gorilla was posted the conversation would go downhill on a sled.......and it has.

I still have little use for hip hop, sorry.

To dazedcat:

Regarding Johnny Rebel's song, well the song certainly exists, and whether it got airplay at the time doesn't really matter greatly, it's the fact that it exists & somone somewhere I'm sure was enjoying it at the time of it's release. That's just the society we live in, speaking as an American, now & then.

As far as not liking hip hop, that's fine just like anything else anyone may or may not like musically. It shouild be strictly about the music, I feel, & not about whatever other issues people may have.

I'd also like to add:

A counter point to Johnny Rebel's song regards Chuck Berry's "Johhny B. Goode". It is perhaps the most famed rock 'n' roll song in the annals of it's genre. Chuck Berry had to change the song's main lyric so he could get airplay. The lyric in question was "Once there was a little colored boy named Johnny B Goode..." was changed to "Once there was a little country boy named Johnny B Goode". Now why would he have to change that lyric? The song was about Chuck's own life, an autobiographical song as a whole, it's not lyrically offensive anywhere to maybe a few except for that one lyric. American society/white owned radio & TV stations at that time would not chance such a lyric getting airplay because it was color specific in regards to a black man. Chuck changed the lyric to "country boy" because he was that too keeping with the autobiographical slant of the original lyric but at the same time it ate at him that he still had to make that compromise to gain airplay, and still does today from what I've recently read. So there's one extreme to the other. A great artist in the past getting censored over NOTHING, to lesser artists of today who get to speak offensively & get air play with no repucussions. God Bless America.

Still there's the matter of the Stones "Brown Sugar". That song gets airplay several times a day, everyday, since 1971. I don't have a problem with the song, but maybe someone else does, & I could understand why. Now to project an arguement I can see coming here from someone at some point: "Well there's 9 more of those offensive rap songs on the radio today than for every song like "Brown Sugar"." Lol, I've heard that arguement before too. So the problem isn't that there are songs offensive to groups of people, the problem is that it should be evened out where everyone gets/feels equally degraded. Lol, a perfect utopian society of degradation where all offensive actions & comments are equal. I'm not going to go into further, just yet anyway, but if you recognize yourself in that view point there's very little I feel I can explain further to you.

[ledzepfvr]

I tried tuning into a station that plays this type of music and it did not give me any pleasure to listen to.

[Gospel Zone]

I tried tuning into a station that plays this type of music and it did not give me any pleasure to listen to.

It's not supposed to give you pleasure, it's more like you're supposed to have some sort of reaction. I've actually been told this by people who are into this stuff.

It's interesting because if I wanted someone to hear The Rolling Stones and be impressed, I'd have no problem finding the right songs or album. In fact often has been the case where I'm driving my car, playing a Stones CD and my passenger says; "This is the Rolling Stones? I like that!". I don't think this interaction with my passenger would be the same if I was playing rap.

Of course when I play Led Zeppelin when my sister is in the car, she always says; “It sounds like they’re not sure how they want the song to go”. So much for trying to impress people with your music.... ha,ha!

[kaiser]

It's not supposed to give you pleasure, it's more like you're supposed to have some sort of reaction. I've actually been told this by people who are into this stuff.

It's interesting because if I wanted someone to hear The Rolling Stones and be impressed, I'd have no problem finding the right songs or album. In fact often has been the case where I'm driving my car, playing a Stones CD and my passenger says; "This is the Rolling Stones? I like that!". I don't think this interaction with my passenger would be the same if I was playing rap.

Of course when I play Led Zeppelin when my sister is in the car, she always says; It sounds like theyre not sure how they want the song to go. So much for trying to impress people with your music.... ha,ha!

The arguement could be made that rock and roll orginally in the 50's was about giving a reaction to the Perry Como's, Patti Page's, & Rat Pack's of that time. Psychedelia, punk, & eventually rap would do the same for what ever was the accepted norm of the time. Rap is the accepted norm now & I've have found the genre boring for the most part for the last 15 years. It's become the corporate rock of the 70's, the same old same old recycled shit that the masses swallow until something new yet old else knocks it off it's podium, and those who love the old will resent the new as is the norm.

As far as finding a song by a band you happen to like/love for someone you are acquainted with, well that's not the hardest thing to do. You know what you like and don't musically, you may have an idea of what your acquaintance may like and/or doesn't like musically, so it's not the greatest stretch to find a common denominator.

As far as your sister in regards with Zeppelin, lol, I've dealt with that many times, but that's for another discussion.

[Gospel Zone]

The arguement could be made that rock and roll orginally in the 50's was about giving a reaction to the Perry Como's, Patti Page's, & Rat Pack's of that time. Psychedelia, punk, & eventually rap would do the same for what ever was the accepted norm of the time. Rap is the accepted norm now & I've have found the genre boring for the most part for the last 15 years. It's become the corporate rock of the 70's, the same old same old recycled shit that the masses swallow until something new yet old else knocks it off it's podium, and those who love the old will resent the new as is the norm.

As far as finding a song by a band you happen to like/love for someone you are acquainted with, well that's not the hardest thing to do. You know what you like and don't musically, you may have an idea of what your acquaintance may like and/or doesn't like musically, so it's not the greatest stretch to find a common denominator.

As far as your sister in regards with Zeppelin, lol, I've dealt with that many times, but that's for another discussion.

I've had people who previously did not like the Rolling Stones, people who were more aware of the Stones image than their music, saying; "That's the Rolling Stones? I like that!" And this has happened many times.

A friend of mine was telling me that back in 1967, the day after the Stones were on Ed Sullivan doing "Let's Spend Some Time Together" that some of his more conservative neighbors got snowed in at his house and were talking about the show from the night before. They said that they liked the Stones music but just didn't like that they weren't dressed alike.

On the other hand, I have black friends who feel that rap is racist and portrays blacks in a demeaning manor. They say that it pisses them off more than someone using racial slurs.

[kaiser]

I've had people who previously did not like the Rolling Stones, people who were more aware of the Stones image than their music, saying; "That's the Rolling Stones? I like that!" And this has happened many times.

A friend of mine was telling me that back in 1967, the day after the Stones were on Ed Sullivan doing "Let's Spend Some Time Together" that some of his more conservative neighbors got snowed in at his house and were talking about the show from the night before. They said that they liked the Stones music but just didn't like that they weren't dressed alike.

On the other hand, I have black friends who feel that rap is racist and portrays blacks in a demeaning manor. They say that it pisses them off more than someone using racial slurs.

Gospel Zone, we've had conversations on the Stones in the past so I think we both know we're both big fans of the band. I've turned people onto "Salt Of The Earth" when all they knew prior was "A Rock And A Hard Place". Quite the difference if you're trying to explain the Stones to a non-fan with their negative opinion already formed. I think it's hard to get across to people who already have a bias against what their "idea" of something is, rather than what it is. If people would allow themselves to get rid of their already formed "idea" on a subject without all the knowledge that's available to them, they just might find that would enjoy something they wouldn't have prior. That's pretty much been my point all along in regards to this thread.

As far as 1967, well, I was 5 years away from being born lol. I can only imagine what people's take's were on the Stones. "Dirtbag's", "Fags", "Heathens", "No Talents", etc. Whatever, lol. The Stones may have been all of those things or none of them, what does it matter. If people held any of those opinions about the Stones it really does say as much about them as it does the band.

And sure, being black doesn't mean you're a fan of rap by birthright any more than reggae, forms of the blues, soul, funk, r&b,or even pre 20th century field hollers. As far as African-American culture all of those are a part of it their collective background, and more, but it doesn't mean an individual is necessarily a fan of any of those genres, & if anything more so than race, it may come down to their age. Bias or preference covers much more than skin color, there's many factors involved.

[beetleron]

I tried tuning into a station that plays this type of music and it did not give me any pleasure to listen to.

and yet

the way you squeeze my lemon.......................i'm gonna fall right outta my RV

yey.........hey,,,,,,,,,,hey yey yey yey.....ooooooohhhhhhhhh

damn bluebirds

[Gospel Zone]

Gospel Zone, we've had conversations on the Stones in the past so I think we both know we're both big fans of the band. I've turned people onto "Salt Of The Earth" when all they knew prior was "A Rock And A Hard Place". Quite the difference if you're trying to explain the Stones to a non-fan with their negative opinion already formed. I think it's hard to get across to people who already have a bias against what their "idea" of something is, rather than what it is. If people would allow themselves to get rid of their already formed "idea" on a subject without all the knowledge that's available to them, they just might find that would enjoy something they wouldn't have prior. That's pretty much been my point all along in regards to this thread.

As far as 1967, well, I was 5 years away from being born lol. I can only imagine what people's take's were on the Stones. "Dirtbag's", "Fags", "Heathens", "No Talents", etc. Whatever, lol. The Stones may have been all of those things or none of them, what does it matter. If people held any of those opinions about the Stones it really does say as much about them as it does the band.

And sure, being black doesn't mean you're a fan of rap by birthright any more than reggae, forms of the blues, soul, funk, r&b,or even pre 20th century field hollers. As far as African-American culture all of those are a part of it their collective background, and more, but it doesn't mean an individual is necessarily a fan of any of those genres, & if anything more so than race, it may come down to their age. Bias or preference covers much more than skin color, there's many factors involved.

What I've experienced with many people who don't like the Stones is, they already have some non musical knowledge of the Stones, but once actually hearing the music they find that they like it. With rap, I don't like the actual sound of the music, but somehow I'm supposed to validate it because of someone else's explanation of what it is or whatever and I'm not buying into what I'm being told it is.

[Anjin-san]

I tried to search for a similar thread, but the word "rap" was too short. Please let me know if this topic has been done to death. If so, I'll delete this thread.

What are your opinions on rap? I actually used to like it in my early high school years, before I had any interest in music. My concern back then was doing what my friends were doing, rather than what I enjoyed. I remember one day we were making fun of another kid for listening to The Who (which was nothing more than an "old" band to us), and I've never forgiven myself for that. Fortunately I grew out of that phase, and in the last decade I've discovered the beauty of rock, metal, the blues, classical, folk, jazz, etc.

Ironically, today rap is one of the few genres that I can't enjoy. It is just so rudimentary. But I think the rap hate goes a little to far. I've heard people say it isn't even music.

IMVFHO,no.

KB

I think it's very strange that rap is one of the most popular genres of music today. You will probably find more musical depth and variety in the first movement of any Beethoven symphony or in a single Led Zeppelin album, than in any given rapper's entire discography. It seems like the average person's taste in music has regressed over the years.

What do you think about rap, its popularity, and what it says about modern culture? Do you even consider it music?

[kaiser]

With rap, I don't like the actual sound of the music, but somehow I'm supposed to validate it because of someone else's explanation of what it is or whatever and I'm not buying into what I'm being told it is.

Well that's the point. If you or someone else doesn't like rap or whatever form of music because it's not pleasing to your/their ears, that's reason enough & as far as I'm concerned that's the only real valid reason. Any other reason is redundant because it involves more than the sound of the music.

[TypeO]

I think the entire premise of this thread is silly.

First of all, of course Rap is music.

Just because it may not be music you like, doesn't mean it isn't music.

And if you think Rap music is nothing more than a bunch of samples strung together, you are really revealing your ignorance.

Many people who dislike Rap would consider Flo Rida's Right Round a typical example.

In truth, while not really a cover, it's a vast improvement over the painfully cheesy original Dead or Alive song from the 80s, You Spin Me Round (Like a Record).

It's really no different from many of Zeppelin's "covers" and remakes.

Second, trying to judge everything from Sugarhill Gang, Grandmaster Flash, and Run DMC to NWA, Tupac, and The Fugees to Outkast, Eminem, Akon, and T. Pain, to Snoop Dogg, Dr. Dre, Jay-Z and...

Getting the point yet?

If you consider all the artists above as one big single category of "Rap", then I'm quite certain you don't like Rap.

It's the same as any other genre of music - there are many varieties and styles, and there are fantastically gifted artists as well as formulated generic hacks.

So anyone that says they simply hate Rap music wholesale isn't very open-minded.

I personally don't care for country music, yet there are a number of country songs I like.

The point is, there is enough variety in most any major genre of music to find something you like, even if it's not enough to make you go out and buy it, at least you don't mind hearing it.

So for anyone who says there is absolutely NO Rap music that you could possible like, you simply have a predisposition, or have made up your mind to not like it.

Therefore, you are somewhat close-minded.

I'm not a huge fan of Rap, but I still hear songs that appeal to me.

My 11 year-old constantly turns me on to new songs I enjoy.

Enjoy enough to go out and buy?

No.

But I enjoy them, nonetheless.

I've identified many parallels in Rap music to heavy music that I like.

Repetitive, mesmerizing beats are as common to many cool Rap songs as they are to many Tool songs and many Led Zeppelin songs.

Much of the negative comments in this thread are more related to dislike for the artists.

If I disliked every artist that I don't agree with politically or socially, there wouldn't be a lot for me to enjoy.

As some very fine sistas encouraged us almost 20 years ago...

Free your mind, and the rest will follow.

[Gospel Zone]

Rap is seeping into other forms of music and the record buying public is soaking in up. An example of this is the Stones "Rain Fall Down" from their Bigger Bang album.

[greenman]

I'm an ape. You're an ape too. What is racist about comparing people to apes? We are all apes.

Is this racist?

Is this racist?

Or is it only racist when a black person is the butt of the joke?

And maybe you're racist for assuming that the ape in that picture is supposed to represent a black person. I don't think there is text anywhere that says, "this represents a black person." You made that assumption yourself. Shame on you.

The difference is its not a "black person" its "black people", whats more theres a long history of the latter which makes any refference a touchy subject.

I'm far from an expert(so perhaps a better comparason to many here?) but theres still a fair bit of rap I enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt55HI5cyjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwTHVE_wrco

[Gospel Zone]

The difference is its not a "black person" its "black people", whats more theres a long history of the latter which makes any refference a touchy subject.

I'm far from an expert(so perhaps a better comparason to many here?) but theres still a fair bit of rap I enjoy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt55HI5cyjA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwTHVE_wrco

Yes, and rap equates blacks with the old, very old stereotype that all blacks have this great gift of rhythm.....well no, I take that back, because one of my issues with rap is that it gets the rhythm out of whack and is the cause of some very dorky rhythms being used in otherwise non rap songs of the day.

[Led Zep Girl]

Oh it's not c(RAP) anymore, it's "hip-hop". Nobody got me hooked on rap but myself. So I blame myself. I saw it, I listened to it, then I got hooked on it. Yes, I still have some rap Cd's but I never listen to any of them. All it is is bass and your lucky if you can understand what they are saying but 3/4 of this song is cursing. So I thought to myself, this is very unattractive music. There is like zero instruments. So you can push buttons. That makes you creative? Not only can't I tolerate rap but anything "new" it seems. Honestly, the only "new" music I do like is The White Stripes. And they aren't even new anymore.

IMHO:

Rap music gives kids, teenagers and adults "ideas". They see a guy walk down the street and get shot in a video. Hmmm....that's a good idea. One would think. Or they sleep with another man's wife. Which makes him a....pimp? I don't get the whole lingo. Isn't music for one's whom sing? Or am I just old fashioned? If rap isn't music than it's for sure noise if anything. I mean listen to auctioneers. They should have been rappers.

*I do like Lauryn Hill. She can sing and rap and she does sound great. I like a lot of R&B. Alecia Keys, Jill Scott, Lil' Mo etc.

I just feel like I can't go back to that sort of music. I have found something better. Something more creative.

[TypeO]

Yes, and rap equates blacks with the old, very old stereotype that all blacks have this great gift of rhythm...

Sorry, but you're the one making that equation, not "rap".

"Rap" is not some entity that draws conclusions and makes gratuitous associations.

It's a genre of music.

All the "equating of stereotypes" is yours.

[greenman]

Yes, and rap equates blacks with the old, very old stereotype that all blacks have this great gift of rhythm.....well no, I take that back, because one of my issues with rap is that it gets the rhythm out of whack and is the cause of some very dorky rhythms being used in otherwise non rap songs of the day.

How does rap itself equate all blacks with having a sense of rhythm? One or two songs may do so but the genre as a whole doesnt. Even then I think its pretty obvious that sterotype is a good deal less offencive and degrading.

As many have said nobody has a problem with someone having no interest in listening to rap/hiphop but thats not what the thread starter or many others comment on, they question its very status as music and wish for its elimination.

[Gospel Zone]

Sorry, but you're the one making that equation, not "rap".

"Rap" is not some entity that draws conclusions and makes gratuitous associations.

It's a genre of music.

All the "equating of stereotypes" is yours.

If you read my comment, my whole comment, I'm not equating it with anything, but don't try to tell me that many others wouldn't. The equation is in the eye of the beholder, just like the primate pictures.

I don't equate rap with much of anything, other than maybe farting on vinyl cushions. That will be the next big thing in pop music. You may laugh, but don't come crying to me when the price of vinyl goes up because of it.

[greenman]

If you read my comment, my whole comment, I'm not equating it with anything, but don't try to tell me that many others wouldn't. The equation is in the eye of the beholder, just like the primate pictures.

No thats exactly what you did, equate an entire genre with an entire racing having a "gift of rhythm", you then stated you disliked the rhythm's they created but that really doesnt have any impact on the previous comment.

The primate picture was a single direct refference between black people and apes and the end of the sequence of images atempting to show displeasure at black culture. The two are not at all alike and your just digging yourself into a hole trying to stand up for a rather unsavoury poster.