Jump to content

Collateral Murder Wikileaks Iraq


BIGDAN

Recommended Posts

Hello Danny,thanks for the reply.Has it been proven that the seemingly armed individuals in the film were guards?Could they not have been armed insurgents?I agree that while the helicopter camera's were rolling that they did not fire on the helicopters or American ground forces,but do you know if they had been or were about to open fire?No,neither do I and neither did the gunners in the helicopters.What they did see,I'll hazard a guess,is armed men leaving a building,with other men in there midst who could be armed with RPG's(rocket propelled grenades?).So they opened up.It's messy,it's horrible and it's awful that some journalists were in the middle of it.As I've said Dan,I do not want to come across as glib in anyway about what has happened to the reporters.It sounds like you have a forces background,I have none,so I fully accept that you may know more than myself about situations like this.However,I've written it like I've seen it.

As regards the "God forsaken country" bit,I'll tell you a true story.God was one day talking to the Devil."Devil",exclaimes God,"I'm feeling a bit tired today,would you like to have a go at some creating yourself?"."Yes please",replies Satan,"You make it look so easy".God replies,"Well there's part of this island I've created that I just don't know how to finish off,give it dabble and see what you can come up with".Satan,hardly able to contain himself,gets to work."I'm call this place Wales",the horned one say's,"I'm going to give the people there beautiful clean air to breathe"."Sounds lovely",replies God.The Devil starts to chuckle,"And I'm going to give them beautiful mountains with stunning views,with lakes and rivers to match"."Sounds even better",replies God.The Devil breaks out into a laugh,"I'm going to give them a temperate climate with mild winters and warm summers"."Sounds even better still",replies God.The Devil is now laughing almost hysterically,"And I'm going to give them miles of coastline to walk along,fish from,sail boats from and generally enjoy"."This place sound fantastic Satan,these Welsh people will indeed be blessed,but why are you laughing so?"."Well they may think their blessed",replies Satan with a wicked grin,"...but wait until they meet the neighbours"! ;)

Hi 'Walesdad'

Love the story mate, that has put me firmly in my place, you're lucky you don't share a border with the Scotch though hey Ally. :o:lol:

As for your comments and interpretation, i have no problem with them, you see what you see and that goes for all of us, but if you and others take the time to analyse to footage like i have over and over again you might just see what i have seen, Cameras, not RPGs which have a totally different silhouette, something you would think a Trained Helicopter Pilot or Gunner would notice straight away given the amount of time he has Trained to be a Pilot or Gunner wouldn't you?

Now take the fact that the Pilot and Gunner clearly open up on wounded men who posed no threat whatsoever, then the attack on the van, again unarmed men trying to evacuate a wounded man, again no guns and no threat, and all the time showing with gleeful abandonment the joy, the pleasure they feel in taking life, in killing what was in fact innocent people, and children, they didn't follow the Rules of War and Engagement laid down under the Geneva Convention which was brought in to force by THEIR GOVERNMENT as well as many others.

Now lets get on to the next phase, the Military and Government of the USA, why the suppression of facts of the incident and the usual cover up that follows. If those people involved thought that no crime had been committed, that the Soldiers had done their job correctly and within the Rules of Engagement then why the cover up? I'm sure we can all work that one out without me being my usually blunt self hey?

If we in the West are going to defeat the Muslim Insurgency then we had better do it right and better, but it seems that by condoning the attitude of the American Military towards the way they wage war we will be at war forever. America wage's War the same way the Israelis do, without thought, compassion or care for the innocent that get caught up in the middle of it, and that's why I'm so out spoken about it and why, until they get it right, we will be in a War we can never win, with thousands of our troops lives being lost and millions of innocent civilians being killed by a Military that is becoming an equal to the SS of Nazi Germany, to Russia or China at how many human rights violations they commit.

Regards, Danny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your people didn't think that way when we saved your asses from Nazi Germany, go blow it up someone elses ass.

Hi 'Literally Speaking'

I can see where all your anger comes from, when you look back at your own countries History, the way you treated the Red Skins, The Black Slaves that you kept while every other Civilised Country was practicing Anti-Slavery, the way you treat Immigrants, like the Irish, Jews, Italians, Mexicans, that live in your Country, the way you treat the poor innocent victims wherever your Military go, i really see your pain, but having a go at me wont make you feel one bit better, you need to reconcile with your fellow countrymen and women to try and be better people from now on, show some compassion for the victims of your crimes, then and now.

I forgive you for your ignorance and hold nothing against you for your rash hurtful outburst, go now and pray for the worlds forgiveness. :smiley_pray:

Forgiving Regards, Danny

PS, By the way, thanks for all the help in WW2, for keeping Nazi Germany off our backs and all that, we just didn't think we would end up being ruled by Nazi America. :o

"Guten Tag Mein Herr" Danny

PPS, Your Ass,:nuke: that alright me ole Stormtrooper. :o;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Broken Levee,all,

Danny is my Brother,we fight all the time! :) You should come to the family picnic,..on the 4th of July! :P

KB

Hi Kev, Mate, Brother, :kiss::beer:

That's right, we do fight, but i would stick by you like shit to a blanket if anyone tries to dump on you mate.

4th of July, what about the 5th of November? now that's what we call fireworks. :D

Very Kind Regards, Danny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not angry, I'm just stating a fact. I know your type and thus will not entertain you any further cept to say what a wanker you are.

Grow a brain.

Have a nice day :P

Hi 'Literally Speaking'

"Oh what a lovely young man you have turned out to be" i can hear your Mum and Dad saying just that. :lol:

Lets be truthful, you don't entertain me, it is I that entertain you, ;) and you must be angry to post the way you did towards me, when you do have something worth saying i suggest you say it quick because it might get lost or forgotten in your child like mind.

You don't seem to know your arse from your elbow so how on Gods earth could you come to the conclusion that you were stating fact? and thanks for the compliment about my sexual preferences, you really should try it sometime, it better than making yourself look a fool on here. :D

If i grew any more brain i would have to order a "Ten Gallon Hat" from Broken Levee to put it in. :yesnod:

Now that all the bullshit is out of the way why don't you tell me what i have said that so upsets you, what was not fact about what i have written, and what it is exactly that you know that i don't, you never know you might teach me something new. I'm all ears.

Regards, Danny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bad situation to be in for both side's really, I didn't see any of the suspects in military garb, but they did have rifle's. Unfortunately the military's of the world consider armed people with no uniform a spy or an insurgent, those combatants are not treated very well.

Sad to see it's like this in our world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi 'Walesdad'

Love the story mate, that has put me firmly in my place, you're lucky you don't share a border with the Scotch though hey Ally. :o:lol:

As for your comments and interpretation, i have no problem with them, you see what you see and that goes for all of us, but if you and others take the time to analyse to footage like i have over and over again you might just see what i have seen, Cameras, not RPGs which have a totally different silhouette, something you would think a Trained Helicopter Pilot or Gunner would notice straight away given the amount of time he has Trained to be a Pilot or Gunner wouldn't you?

Now take the fact that the Pilot and Gunner clearly open up on wounded men who posed no threat whatsoever, then the attack on the van, again unarmed men trying to evacuate a wounded man, again no guns and no threat, and all the time showing with gleeful abandonment the joy, the pleasure they feel in taking life, in killing what was in fact innocent people, and children, they didn't follow the Rules of War and Engagement laid down under the Geneva Convention which was brought in to force by THEIR GOVERNMENT as well as many others.

Now lets get on to the next phase, the Military and Government of the USA, why the suppression of facts of the incident and the usual cover up that follows. If those people involved thought that no crime had been committed, that the Soldiers had done their job correctly and within the Rules of Engagement then why the cover up? I'm sure we can all work that one out without me being my usually blunt self hey?

If we in the West are going to defeat the Muslim Insurgency then we had better do it right and better, but it seems that by condoning the attitude of the American Military towards the way they wage war we will be at war forever. America wage's War the same way the Israelis do, without thought, compassion or care for the innocent that get caught up in the middle of it, and that's why I'm so out spoken about it and why, until they get it right, we will be in a War we can never win, with thousands of our troops lives being lost and millions of innocent civilians being killed by a Military that is becoming an equal to the SS of Nazi Germany, to Russia or China at how many human rights violations they commit.

Regards, Danny

Hello Danny,I'm glad you got a smirk out of the conversation between God and the Devil,good to see that you accepted it in the same spirit in which it was posted. :D

You mentioned that you've seen the helicopter footage over and over again.Well you've seen it more times than any of the inhabitants of the helicopter did,in other words they have to make a decision there and then.They saw a potential enemy and decided to act.Hindsight has seemed to prove that two of the men were reporters and what happened to them was a tragedy.Again,we have the benefit of that hindsight,the American helicopter crew did not.Now we get back to the sudden appearance of the van.I cannot accept that this vehicle and its occupants just happened to be in the vicinity of this attack and the driver just thought he'd scoot down to the target area to see if he could lend a hand.Is it not a reasonable well known fact that the bodies of dead insurgents are very quickly recovered by there fellow insurgents to prevent identification or other evidence collection?Again,the helicopter crew saw the enemy,they opened fire.Let's be honest as well Dan,if the Americans were such blood crazed killers,that wounded individual crawling along the kirb would have been finished off long before the van arrived to try and get him away.Why was this footage covered up,as you put it?I don't know,but I'll hazard a guess it was because on first look it does not look to pleasant for America.Personally,I have no problem with that alleged cover up,far to much is out in the open far to quickly in my opinion regarding this and many other conflicts.You mentioned the way that the Israeli's defend themselves,maybe you are refering to the "disproportianate response" to Hamas fired rockets that seem to land in there country with dreadful regularity?Well Dan,if Britain was being attacked,without provocation,by indescriminate bombing,I'd want something done about it.If Hamas,which bases its rocket launchers in mosques and built up civilian areas,does wish not to be bombed in return by the Israeli's then don't bomb them.As regards the rest of your last paragraph,to compare the American armed forces to the German SS is just beyond belief and,in my view,an insult to every American serviceman or woman who helped save Britain and the rest of Europe during WW2,helped maintain a relatively war free Europe ever since in the face of a Soviet threat that was very real and will continue to act the role of the world's policeman because nobody else has the stomach to do the job.Dan,when the Yanks no longer want that job,the rest of us are really going to be in the messy stuff.Finally my friend,maybe you and I are going to have to agree to differ on this.I'll gladly read any further comments of yours but I've just about said my piece on this subject,I'm now off to vote for my least favourite track by some band evryone seems to post about on this site.Take care. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Danny,I'm glad you got a smirk out of the conversation between God and the Devil,good to see that you accepted it in the same spirit in which it was posted. :D

You mentioned that you've seen the helicopter footage over and over again.Well you've seen it more times than any of the inhabitants of the helicopter did,in other words they have to make a decision there and then.They saw a potential enemy and decided to act.Hindsight has seemed to prove that two of the men were reporters and what happened to them was a tragedy.Again,we have the benefit of that hindsight,the American helicopter crew did not.Now we get back to the sudden appearance of the van.I cannot accept that this vehicle and its occupants just happened to be in the vicinity of this attack and the driver just thought he'd scoot down to the target area to see if he could lend a hand.Is it not a reasonable well known fact that the bodies of dead insurgents are very quickly recovered by there fellow insurgents to prevent identification or other evidence collection?Again,the helicopter crew saw the enemy,they opened fire.Let's be honest as well Dan,if the Americans were such blood crazed killers,that wounded individual crawling along the kirb would have been finished off long before the van arrived to try and get him away.Why was this footage covered up,as you put it?I don't know,but I'll hazard a guess it was because on first look it does not look to pleasant for America.Personally,I have no problem with that alleged cover up,far to much is out in the open far to quickly in my opinion regarding this and many other conflicts.You mentioned the way that the Israeli's defend themselves,maybe you are refering to the "disproportianate response" to Hamas fired rockets that seem to land in there country with dreadful regularity?Well Dan,if Britain was being attacked,without provocation,by indescriminate bombing,I'd want something done about it.If Hamas,which bases its rocket launchers in mosques and built up civilian areas,does wish not to be bombed in return by the Israeli's then don't bomb them.As regards the rest of your last paragraph,to compare the American armed forces to the German SS is just beyond belief and,in my view,an insult to every American serviceman or woman who helped save Britain and the rest of Europe during WW2,helped maintain a relatively war free Europe ever since in the face of a Soviet threat that was very real and will continue to act the role of the world's policeman because nobody else has the stomach to do the job.Dan,when the Yanks no longer want that job,the rest of us are really going to be in the messy stuff.Finally my friend,maybe you and I are going to have to agree to differ on this.I'll gladly read any further comments of yours but I've just about said my piece on this subject,I'm now off to vote for my least favourite track by some band evryone seems to post about on this site.Take care. ;)

Hi Walesdad,

I do go over the top from time to time, i may have done so here, i have no wish to offend anyone, especially former or serving American Servicemen, if i have offended you then I'll take the time to give you a very big SORRY.

I hate the Government and the Military for putting these guys in to this type of no win situation, i can see where you are all coming from but i still think that those guys could have dealt with their situation a lot better, and i really don't like the way that these guys talk over the radio, it is not what you would hear by British Forces. Even the reporters could have done themselves a favour by wearing Hi-Vis Jackets with PRESS written on the backs of them but i suppose all the insurgents would wear them too, no win again.

As for the Israelis, well lets just say that it serves the Palestinian cause a lot better to have the Martyrs, and Israel obliges them every time. By the way, you do know that it is against the Geneva Convention and the Rules of War and Engagement that both the US and Israel have signed up to that you cannot use Tanks, Aeroplanes and Helicopter Gunships against any Non Military personnel don't you?

I can understand anyone not wanting to continue posting on this topic, so I'll do what you all want me to do and i'll shut me BIG MOUTH.

Regards, Danny

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi BigDan-

I was going to join in the hullabaloo here but I don't have the energy to read all the comments. Just keep on posting your comments, no offense taken by me!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bigdan. Let me say what and how I feel about this topic you started (and by the way, a very Bad topic to spew your Anti-American rhetoric). Since, you are apparently, British (from your profile). Britian and the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA are and have been Allies in this Our "War on Terrorism" since the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA was deliberately attacked on September 11, 2001, for no reason at all by Fucking "islamic fundamentalists" from al-queda and other "enemies" that are and were to Coward to show themselves and fight a real fight.

Remember, we (U.S.A.) are fighting two wars that were brought UPON US. Not the other way around. I say we capture or Kill anyone who is against the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If our enemies are willing and quick to cut the heads off of our American Soldiers, why give them, the insurgents and al-queda, any Quarter? If you show or point any weapon at me or my fellow Americans, than you are surely gonna DIE for your stupid Islamic cause. If you really expect 40 Virgins in your "martyrdom afterlife" than you really do deserve to be DEAD.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

By the way, Bigdan, if you really and actually could come up with a good reply to my just recent post, I (and I am sure many of US(A)) would like to to read what you have to say about this. If you have any trouble, let me remind you that over 3,000 INNOCENT AMERICANS CIVILIANS WERE KILLED ON THIS DAY IN HISTORY THAT CHANGED THE WORLD AS WE ALL KNOW IT. SEPTEMBER 11, 2001. All because of "ARAB MIDDLE EASTERN" COWARDS.

I say to you that if you really care what happened to a couple of "enemy combatant" that were killed because they were surrounded by other "enemy combatants" than I think you have have the WRONG PRIORITES and should RE- EVALUATE WHAT YOU THINK IS RIGHT OR WRONG.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If i have anything to add i'll say it here, that way every one can see just what a "Big Mouthed Egotist" i am and what an "Idiot" you keep trying to be.

If you wanna PM me though, then feel free.

Have a nice day, Regards, Danny

The only thing I have to add is people want capital punishment but not executions and war with no collateral damage, can`t have it both ways.

Deal with it.

P.M.

Thanks, but no thanks Danny-boy. This is YOUR thread so feel free to pontificate at will.

Allow me to go retro and say, what ever floats your boat.

Just don`t fall off your very short soap box.

An idiot? You fired the first salvo and broad-sided me by calling me an idiot.

And yes I stand by my statement, you have a BIG mouth and even BIGGER ego.

Intellegence, I`m sure you will occupy Sir Issac Newton`s position at Cambridge after Hawkings.

Wit, try Benny Hill.

Knowlege, you are a true cornucopia of knowlegde, full to the brim.

You are so full of yourself and crap, your eyes are brown.

If you can`t dazzle `em with brilliance, befuddled `em with wiki-crap, but thats your style, or lack of.

Since you also seems to be a last-word freak, feel free to have one.

Regardless.

Now shove off matie and cry a tear in your pint for me.

Nice day, I already had one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bigdan. Let me say what and how I feel about this topic you started (and by the way, a very Bad topic to spew your Anti-American rhetoric).

Anti-American rhetoric is as stupid as anti-British rhetoric or anti-Canadian rhetoric or anti-Jamaican rhetoric.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your people didn't think that way when we saved your asses from Nazi Germany.

Not to mention all the privately owned firearms that were donated and sent over by Americans so the Brits could defend themselves. Who knows how many went down when the merchant ships were sunk by U-boats and I also wonder how many were kept by Brit citizens or even sent back to the U.S.?

:huh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the kind of stuff that Goebbels would be proud of. It's similar to the Rodney King tape too that was heavily edited and the media just fanned the flames of anarchy with it.

'Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play'---Joseph Goebbels

And I really can't feel too much sympathy for Reuters 'reporters' since they're pretty much embedded with the enemy. <_<

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Walesdad,

Now think how you would feel if that had happened to your friends or relatives or just countrymen in a city near to where you live and you might be able to empathise a bit more.

At no time did the Reporters or their Guards fire on the Helicopters or American Ground Forces, and when the Helicopters opened up on the van its still up to the Commander or Gunner of the Helicopter to identify any Danger to themselves or any Ground Troops, although they had permission to fire the didn't have to do so, there was no need to fire on the van or the unarmed, wounded, men and children, ignorance is no excuse, there is no excuse, only a Gung-Ho, Unprofessional, Murderous and Willful Attitude to unarmed civilians that posed no threat to anyone whatsoever.

Regards, Danny

PS, That "God forsaken country" bit? quite rich for a Welshman init? :lol:

I am replying to you Bigdan, again. It seems like you replied to a few (if not most) posts after you posted this topic. I was really hoping and waiting to read what you would have to say to the 2 posts that I made on April 9, 2010 (#38 and #39). Waited for nothing. What happened? Anyway, I am replying to one of your posts to someone else a couple of days before I even posted my original replies. I am gonna use your OWN quote here and see if you can make sense of what you mean and please let all of us know what you mean:

"there was no need to fire on the van or the unarmed, wounded, men and children, ignorance is no excuse, there is no excuse, only a Gung-Ho, Unprofessional, Murderous and Willful Attitude to unarmed civilians that posed no threat to anyone whatsoever".

Again, I ask YOU: what about the 3000+ innocent American citizens (and other Nationalities) that were killed by "Gung- Ho, Unprofessional, Murderous and Willful Attitude to unarmed civilians that posed no threat to anyone whatsoever"? Is this not what Osama Bin Ladens cowardly organization known as "al-queda" do to the United States of America on SEPTEMBER 11, 2001? Only much worse than killing 2 members of a news organization that happened to be in the exact vicinity and presence of the Real Enemy? I and I'm sure alot of US would like to read your response to this. (I already mentioned earlier that this was and is a Bad topic to have started).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that you're going to say that i'm a spic or that i'm a communist or something that you people of the united states (i don't say american because i also live in america, america is all the fucking continent) use as an insult to anybody that doesn't defend what you are doing overseas. I don't think that by any means you have to support killing, i live in a very violent country and i will never justify by any reason a murderer and it's worse if this person is sent to kill people somewhere else. I think that people in the U.S. really need contact with real life, not like September 11, because we all know that it was planned by your own government to have a reason to invade Irak and other countries, you really need to know how people is suffering, you are so alienated and brainwashed by your own system that you think that everybody is your enemy....if your going to give me another excuse like saying that we are also the enemy because of the immigration problem, well let me remind you that all your ancestors are immigrants, the true owners of the U.S. land were the native american tribes that were of course slaughtered and now are kept almost like prisoners in the desert. Happy Thanksgiving. As it says in the "Mother Of Exiles":

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Shame on the ones that defend people being slaughtered, your fear doesn´t let you see that the real war has infected the very same innards of your own country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that you're going to say that i'm a spic or that i'm a communist or something that you people of the united states (i don't say american because i also live in america, america is all the fucking continent) use as an insult to anybody that doesn't defend what you are doing overseas. I don't think that by any means you have to support killing, i live in a very violent country and i will never justify by any reason a murderer and it's worse if this person is sent to kill people somewhere else. I think that people in the U.S. really need contact with real life, not like September 11, because we all know that it was planned by your own government to have a reason to invade Irak and other countries, you really need to know how people is suffering, you are so alienated and brainwashed by your own system that you think that everybody is your enemy....if your going to give me another excuse like saying that we are also the enemy because of the immigration problem, well let me remind you that all your ancestors are immigrants, the true owners of the U.S. land were the native american tribes that were of course slaughtered and now are kept almost like prisoners in the desert. Happy Thanksgiving. As it says in the "Mother Of Exiles":

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Shame on the ones that defend people being slaughtered, your fear doesn´t let you see that the real war has infected the very same innards of your own country.

Sure glad I don't live in El Salvador.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that you're going to say that i'm a spic or that i'm a communist or something that you people of the united states (i don't say american because i also live in america, america is all the fucking continent) use as an insult to anybody that doesn't defend what you are doing overseas. I don't think that by any means you have to support killing, i live in a very violent country and i will never justify by any reason a murderer and it's worse if this person is sent to kill people somewhere else. I think that people in the U.S. really need contact with real life, not like September 11, because we all know that it was planned by your own government to have a reason to invade Irak and other countries, you really need to know how people is suffering, you are so alienated and brainwashed by your own system that you think that everybody is your enemy....if your going to give me another excuse like saying that we are also the enemy because of the immigration problem, well let me remind you that all your ancestors are immigrants, the true owners of the U.S. land were the native american tribes that were of course slaughtered and now are kept almost like prisoners in the desert. Happy Thanksgiving. As it says in the "Mother Of Exiles":

"Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Shame on the ones that defend people being slaughtered, your fear doesn´t let you see that the real war has infected the very same innards of your own country.

I usually stay out of threads like this one because issues as this are subject to personal experience and observation, but I would like to make a few comments on this post. I agree that people on this western hemisphere being all Americans. One of my peeves is people of the US are refered to as Americans but so are Canadians, Mexicans and people of South America. But that is all that I can agree with. I do realize how lucky I am to be a citizen of the United States as life here for the most part is alot easier that living in other parts of the world. I have nothing but respect for the men and women who have fought for our freedoms on and off the battlefield. I do not agree with us being in Iraq and view our presence there as one man's quest to achieve a personal agenda. The public was fed propoganda bull shit to justify that invasion, but now the powers that be need to figure out how to leave without making a bigger mess. But to think the 9/11 attacks were planned by our government is delusional thinking. Al Queda and Bin Ladin took responsibility for that atroucious event and terrorists like them are a dangerous breed to all societies of the world. I do not condone diliberit murder but I do support eradicating evil in this world. But some peoples perspective of what evil is may be different than my view of what is evil.

My ancestors are the Native Americans of this land and the Native Americans today are free to leave the reservations any time they want, but are content to stay as their casinos make a comfortable lifestyle for them.

Life is not perfect for anyone and all countries have their problems, but I would rather live here than anywhere else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...