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Oil rig sinks in the Gulf of Mexico

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I've done it... more than once. Been decades since I smoked tobacco. It's not impossible. LSD helped.

How did LSD help you stop?

My nephew smokes like a train and he swears he's going to quit but never does.

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How did LSD help you stop?

Sounds like putting out fire with gasoline to me :D

All this talk of bikes has got me thinking. Your govt should ban all your lard-arsed blimps from making more than three trips a day by car to fast-food joints. Pretty soon, this would start to hurt, and then maybe some of 'em would invest in (suitably reinforced) pushbikes?

Doesn't solve their methane emissions, I know, but it's a start B)

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For the Rep. Bush / Katrina coverage, I was trying to remember how soon it was before National Geographic, and Rolling Stone had cover exposes of the disaster, as compared to the Dem. Obama / Oil Spill coverage. Now that "Super Tuesday" Primary day is over with.....

Edited by The Rover

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Sounds like putting out fire with gasoline to me :D

LSD could just be strong enough to give the will power. :unsure:

All this talk of bikes has got me thinking. Your govt should ban all your lard-arsed blimps from making more than three trips a day by car to fast-food joints. Pretty soon, this would start to hurt, and then maybe some of 'em would invest in (suitably reinforced) pushbikes?

I ride my bike as much as I can. I actually hate to drive anywhere but it's a necessary evil. I also hate fast food except for maybe a Mediterranean pizza once in a while. B)

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Hi all,

For the Rep. Bush / Katrina coverage, I was trying to remember how soon it was before National Geographic, and Rolling Stone had cover exposes of the disaster, as compared to the Dem. Obama / Oil Spill coverage. Now that "Super Tuesday" Primary day is over with.....

Ain't going to happen R,...

Blame this: our government,which allows off-shore drilling and is suppose to have rules,regulations in place and over see it.

KB

Edited by Anjin-san

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I'm quite confident that we won't see a turnaround of that magnatude in our lifetimes.

I don't know what happened to your quote but I never said what you quoted me as saying.

However, I agree. We haven't made more than a token advancement away from oil and the environmentalists have been at it for what, 30-40 years? That's half a lifetime anyway.

The sooner we start, the sooner future mankind will be looking back at our [contemporary] primitive ways.

Yesterday a friend posted the following on her Facebook profile:

"So where are all the "Save the Gulf" concerts? Where are the T.V. Benefits with celebrities and musicians giving heart felt speeches on the poor fisherman, wildlife, beaches, loss of income and sabotaged gulf economy? These people (including our own government) are so quick to help Haiti and ......other countries...but where are they... now?"

I made this comment:

"Live Earth http://liveearth.org/ is still around but we can't all aspire to Al Gore's lifestyle to save the planet! What's needed is a RETURN to "stay-at-home-or-at-least-nearby-the-home" type family and community that would bore the daylights out of most people nowadays. But it IS necessary if we hope to consume less and fix these nightmares BEFORE they happen."

Although she has almost 200 Facebook friends, nobody else made a comment. I think everyone is finally starting to feel a bit guilty, getting tired of pointing fingers, and ... FINALLY! ... waking up to the ugly TRUTH. It's time to drop the illusions, see the whole situation for what it really is, and love again, the old fashioned way ... B)

Edited by sweetredwine

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Yesterday a friend posted the following on her Facebook profile:

"So where are all the "Save the Gulf" concerts? Where are the T.V. Benefits with celebrities and musicians giving heart felt speeches on the poor fisherman, wildlife, beaches, loss of income and sabotaged gulf economy? These people (including our own government) are so quick to help Haiti and ......other countries...but where are they... now?"

Thank you sweetredwine, thank you. I was wondering this just the other day. Where are all the big celebrities who supposedly are so environmentally conscious? Where's the telethon's to help raise money to save the coast? Is this lack of 'help' because they feel like BP made this mess, let BP fix it? Well . . . . . it is in a sense, but BP with all their billions is probably spending more on PR campaigns than actually cleaning up their mess and until they get this well fully capped, it will continue to be a mess. And . . . . I understand BP's stock is in free-fall and they could possibly claim bankruptcy, then what? They could just walk away from this shit-hole that they created. Then who's left holding the bag? The U.S. government? A government that is hemorraging $$$$ like the oil from that well.

I am mystified (but not really) by the deafening silence coming from these so-called caring celebrities. It just goes to show how hypocritical they are. The people who are hurting are hard-working blue collar men and women and small business owners and are probably not glamourous or exotic enough to warrant their attention.

I also agree with you about the simpler lifestyle concept. People are quick to say we need to stop using so much fossil fuel, and will point out that they drive a Prius - as they are getting ready to hop a flight to who knows where for a weekend. STAY HOME - STAY THE F*** HOME! Don't take the job in the next state so you have to make trips 'home' several times a year....... Go to college at a nearby university so you don't have to catch a flight once a month home...... Work closer to home, or better yet, work from home . . . . . . Stop buying so much shit that has to be carted across the country in 18-wheelers (Have you driven on the interstates lately and seen how many 18-wheelers there are on the highways?). . . . . . Where are our speed trains like they have in Europe and Asia? Why haven't we built these so we can travel from big city to big city decades ago? . . . . . . Why don't we go back to using more trains to transport goods long distances and use smaller trucks to get them from the train unloading dock to the business. (Have you thought about the powerful truckers unions and who they align themselves with? Hint - the party in power. Nuff said as to why we don't use as many trains these days.) I could go on and on, but I think you get my drift. Live simply - but that would be boring.

I'm saying all of this and get my bread and butter from the evil oil companies. But until people start changing their way of life - drastically I might add. Don't bitch about the evil oil companies. It's like bitching about how fast food is causing an obesity problem as you shove fries in your mouth. There is a lot that could be done, but because of politics, laziness, not wanting to make drastic changes in lifestyles, or whatever, it won't get done.

Thanks for letting me vent. I'm living this mess in more ways than you'll ever know and I guess I got carried away.

Edited by justawoman

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God bless America. When there's an oil spill in your backyard, it's the end of the world. Try telling that to the inhabitants of, for example, the Niger delta, or Bhopal.

Obama's recent language and posturing has been a disgrace. If he wants to 'kick some ass' and keep his 'boot on someone's throat', he should start by looking a little closer to home.

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Besides reducing the dependency on oil, bicycling can help to reduce obesity (specifically in consumption oriented US). There are many other health benefits from bicycling that increase physical and mental well-being. This would help lower overall long-term healthcare costs as well. The problem is the US does not have the infrastructure or acceptance of bicycles as a mode of transport. We are a bunch of lazy asses -- and it shows. Many European cities are much better designed in this regard (like Amsterdam).

I had to drive 23 miles each way today. I usually only go about 2.5 to work, so I ride my bike. It took almost 2 hours to get home. If there were a way to ride my bike on the Beltway, I would have been home sooner on my bike.

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God bless America. When there's an oil spill in your backyard, it's the end of the world. Try telling that to the inhabitants of, for example, the Niger delta, or Bhopal.

Obama's recent language and posturing has been a disgrace. If he wants to 'kick some ass' and keep his 'boot on someone's throat', he should start by looking a little closer to home.

Connection Between Barak Obama and CIA

939.jpg113.jpg

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God bless America. When there's an oil spill in your backyard, it's the end of the world. Try telling that to the inhabitants of, for example, the Niger delta, or Bhopal.

Obama's recent language and posturing has been a disgrace. If he wants to 'kick some ass' and keep his 'boot on someone's throat', he should start by looking a little closer to home.

You know what, it's not the end of the world. It's a mess, a big f-ing mess, but not the end of the world . . . . . the inhabitants of the Niger delta and Bhopal are in a lot worse shape and I would not want to trade places with them. But . . . . . at least give me the right to be pissed off!!!!!!! I'm sorry, I'm not going to sit back and say "Oh, well. There are a lot more shittier places on earth than here, so I can't complain." I'm pissed!!!!!!!!!

You know what, this isn't some 3rd world country run by a bunch of corrupt politicians that rape the land and take everything for themselves and leave nothing for it's citizens. (Sometimes I wonder about that, though. Especially that bunch of nimrods that are currently in Washington.)

When you have family, friends and neighbors loosing their jobs and businesses, when almost everyone you know is affected by this total fuck up perpetrated on us by BP, then let's see if you would have such a cavalier attitude.

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^I'm sorry for your situation but I think you are missing the point of his reference to places like Bhopal.

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I'm almost laughing at Obama. Not just because he's pretty much the political opposite of me. But Obama campaigned on being a better politician and being able to "lower the seas" And over the first 2+ years in office he's been same old politics on steroids. I mean every decision he's made is 100% political.

And now this happens and the federal government dropped the ball completely. They basically ignored the situation the first few weeks for political reasons. They basically wanted BP to have all the blame here. And even worse than ignoring the situation they didn't even try and help out the coast for any possible leaks that went there. They basically did the same things that Bush was criticized for in Katrina except 100 times slower, and he had all participation from LA from the beginning something Bush didn't have in the Katrina situations.

Now Obama is trying to put all the blame on BP which they deserve most of it. BP messed up the most on this. Even if it was completely accidental, they've had a series of fuck ups since after the explosion. But I think Obama is shocked that there's really nothing he can do. And you hear him say in one sentence it's all the government's fault then try and go after BP in the next. Then the who's ass the kick comment was so forced. That's not like him. If he was a calming figure from day one on this situation, like he more naturally is, then he doesn't look as bad here. Instead he looked for weeks like he didn't care, and now he's trying to look pissed off.

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... I also agree with you about the simpler lifestyle concept. People are quick to say we need to stop using so much fossil fuel, and will point out that they drive a Prius - as they are getting ready to hop a flight to who knows where for a weekend. STAY HOME - STAY THE F*** HOME! Don't take the job in the next state so you have to make trips 'home' several times a year....... Go to college at a nearby university so you don't have to catch a flight once a month home...... Work closer to home, or better yet, work from home . . . . . . Stop buying so much shit that has to be carted across the country in 18-wheelers (Have you driven on the interstates lately and seen how many 18-wheelers there are on the highways?). . . . . . Where are our speed trains like they have in Europe and Asia? Why haven't we built these so we can travel from big city to big city decades ago? . . . . . . Why don't we go back to using more trains to transport goods long distances and use smaller trucks to get them from the train unloading dock to the business. (Have you thought about the powerful truckers unions and who they align themselves with? Hint - the party in power. Nuff said as to why we don't use as many trains these days.) I could go on and on, but I think you get my drift. Live simply - but that would be boring. ...

Boredom could lead to stability, creativity and fulfillment, but if we're addicted to exciting activities and drama we easily end up frustrated and miserable. Here's a link that I found, it might answer some of your questions in a roundabout way

The Well Known Strategy of Divide and Conquer the Trend

I'll paste it here so if it disappears we can still read it

"After WW II the capitalists that had fled to the USA were afraid of losing their wealth. So they began to give the US society a large middle class after the war. This group of people we now know as the baby boomers. But at the same time they began to plant the seeds to undo this historical anomaly. Yes a historical anomaly because at no point in world history has there ever been as large a population that has had this quality in standard of living. The rest of the world now and in the past has the majority of its population living with much lower standards of living or in poverty.

The seeds that were planted to undo the middle class family began during the 1950s after the war when the nuclear family, low interest rate loans, single family homes and nice neighborhoods were promoted. These were the first steps by the “old school capitalists” to undo what they had done out of fear. Later as “inflation” started to increase the one worker household changed into a two person household having to work to make ends meet. The kids were finally sent to be raised in daycares. During this time they capitalized on the efforts of the Women’s Suffrage movement to help push gender equity to a different objective, because it served their purpose to keep families from raising their children. As the years passed by, psychology was then influenced to develop diagnostic categories that allowed for the administration of prescription drugs to young people - Ritalin for example. This happened the same time as the US had health care management problems with HMOs.

When the extended family is intact they can pass down to family members how to handle various types of child development issues. But instead of the extended family providing support to the family, they were replaced with social services like foster care, social workers and psychiatric treatment to name a few. But what the real intent was to cause more damage to the family as part of the long term plan to destroy the family. Because there is money involved people are happy to fill these jobs for a good pay check and do not pursue the profession as a means to an end to help people and families. There were, is and always will be great examples of where it did work because of the special families or people who did their jobs – the success stories. However, more times than not this was the propaganda to keep the programs in place to keep destroying the family. Ask anyone today that is willing to be honest about what they think about the courts, social services and child protection and how they have contributed to the family. You will find the most preponderant response as being that these institutions have been contributing to the destruction of the families over the last 20 to 25 years and they continue to do so today.

Approximately at the same time that psychology began to provide diagnostic categories to children that suggested prescription drug remedies by pharmaceuticals, HMOs were at the beginning of a new era where they could not meet all the medical needs of the patients. HMOs began to provide fewer and fewer services as the years passed by, but yet expected consumers to pay higher costs for service. From the doctors’ perspective, doctors could not provide services as they had diagnosed their patients. For them as time went on, it too was worse and worse and many doctors threw up their hands, because they could not treat their patients. Today doctors are given a commission to give pharmaceutical prescription drugs to patients. A similar trend has occurred for our armed forces service personal and our retired military personnel. So this is not just a private sector problem.

During this same time in history many thought that there was a shift in the courts philosophy to favor the woman in divorce and in custody cases. But as time has passed and there are more than 20+ years to reflect upon, it was not a shift in the courts philosophy. But instead, it was more pressure put on the family to continue the destruction of and the decline of the family. The family is the foundation of a nation and when you destroy a family you can destroy the nation. This destruction of the family through the courts starts at the top - be it state, federal or local levels to have politics influence judges in anyway that they can to accomplish the end objective of destroying the family. Not only is it through indirect and direct means of influencing the courts philosophy, it also happens through political appointments and through supporting certain judges who are elected. Even asking attorneys these days, you will find many in family court who feel that they need to go along with the “program” (what the judge has to say) otherwise they get blackballed and could lose their livelihood. This is not an isolated feeling, but a pervasive feeling that exists throughout the country. Just like the influence of the HMO that affects health care coverage. It has happened to our court system where lawyers know what is going on, but cannot do their job and only go through the motions for the money. In other words, the majority of doctors, lawyers, social services workers, government workers, etc. are working for the money and not for the job. Because of their financial needs they are addicted to money just like many other families in the US.

If we go back before 1950 we can see that the US was making positive steps for improvement in equality for all, especially for those who were the most disenfranchised in society. This equality was not there for all; however, there was a trend of improvement in rights for, and treatment of, women, Native Americans, blacks and other ethnic groups. But at the same time there were programs put in place to continue the cycle of poverty. The welfare programs were not even established for the recipients, but as a means of a tax transfer payment back to the wealthy. The welfare recipient wore the stigma as the program enabled them to be dependent and not work. This is the exact same problem that existed in socialist and communist countries at the same time. Similarly around the world countries are moving away from welfare systems to back to work programs. Thus the cycle of poverty meets the old school capitalists’ objective that keeps people oppressed. With the abyss of poverty brings with it drug abuse, addiction with alcohol and dysfunctional social relationships that all contribute to the cycle of poverty.

There are other trends that exist as it relates to drug and alcohol use and how youth are consuming more illegal drugs and alcohol and at an earlier age. But when we go back to WW II and understand that it was the CIA, from the United States, that went into Mexico and Latin America to start drug growing programs with these countries. After the war, the drug growing programs were discontinued. However, after training so many people and after the “US soldiers” returned to buy the drugs, the drug trade began. However, the CIA drug growing policy was not established for the war, but for after the war. It had two purposes. One was to destabilize the foreign countries as their neighbors. The other was to slowly use the drugs that flowed into the US as another front to undermine the structure of the family and to create generations that would be susceptible to the influences of drug use. Be it legal or illegal drug consumption, drugs have always been consumed throughout history. However, the 1960s were the first years of a large influx of drugs as a result of the CIA’s policies from WW II in Mexico and Latin America.

All of this culminates into conquer without a war. It has been easy for the “old school capitalist” to divide our societies and other societies by having one group argue with another group about everything from immigration, to racism, to gay rights, to the religious rights views, to the war in Iraq, to abortion rights, to Democrats vs. Republicans, etc. The list goes on and on - and while they have everyone fighting against one another, they created an environment where at the same time everyone is overworked; and worried and stressed out about their bills and the kids’ college. These “old school capitalist” keep busy working to accomplish goals to bring things back to the way things were (the status quo) when capitalism mistreated humanity, while the rest of the world is arguing over the issues of the day.

The trends still continue as time moves forward the effects of debilitating drugs like crystal methamphetamine, crack and the new forms of heroine are being promoted to the younger generations. All of this is leading to a repeat in history. Just remember what happened to the Indians after Columbus landed on the Americas. They were eventually pushed aside and systematically destroyed. Today they are a culture struggling with a great deal of problems."

Well, it seems to me that ALL of the cultures are struggling with a great deal of problems nowadays ... :unsure:

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I also agree with you about the simpler lifestyle concept. People are quick to say we need to stop using so much fossil fuel, and will point out that they drive a Prius - as they are getting ready to hop a flight to who knows where for a weekend. STAY HOME - STAY THE F*** HOME!

LMAO, Fossil fuels are used for everything in the world. Making them harder to use or more expensive is just going to hurt the poor even more and help the rich. It's not going to make things used less despite what socialists think. Nowhere in the world has there been any real alternative to fossil fuels in travel. And in America there really is not viable alternative to fossil fuel in energy. Coal is too abundant and is so cheap and uses less land. People won't travel less in America if fossil fuels are more expensive. Hell look at Europe. Gas prices are double and triple that of the US right now there's not less travel going on there.

Wind farms, Nuclear plants take up so much space they will never become viable in the US. Not until they can create more energy. Energy taxes just end up giving the poor less energy to use in the end. They don't do anything to upper and middle class for the most part. Has anyone in Europe stopped using fossil fuels because of energy tax? Hell no and the continent is still going broke.

Just like health care in America do you realize that health care will just have less competition and will raise premiums in America? The problem in America is crony capitalism and it's really not even capitalism. Politicans basically pat the companies they want to work on the back and give them money and let them work and they don't care about the companies that are worse off. Why do you think big pharmacy likes the healthcare bill? They get less competition and get to rip off Americans and put whatever price they want to on everything.

Edited by NickZepp

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Obama is pushing for them and will ensure they'll be government owned and operated. They haven't been built because private auto ownership in America is a) affordable, and b ) synonomous with freedom & independence.

Yet this administration knows if they can create the right conditions to destroy a) then b ) becomes irrelevant.

Never thought of that. . . . . .having the gov. own and operate passenger speed trains. Wouldn't surprise me.

Let's see they have control of the banks, the auto industry, going to have control of the health care industry (if we don't put a stop to it first), and because of BP and their colossal fuck up, are more than likely licking their lips to get their hands on the oil industry. Good move BP!!!!!!

But . . . . . getting back to the speed trains, how are they/we going to pay for it? We're broke or almost broke. Will be broke in a few years. (I know, I know, tax increases, but that's a discussion for another thread.)

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LMAO, Fossil fuels are used for everything in the world. Making them harder to use or more expensive is just going to hurt the poor even more and help the rich. It's not going to make things used less despite what socialists think. Nowhere in the world has there been any real alternative to fossil fuels in travel. And in America there really is not viable alternative to fossil fuel in energy. Coal is too abundant and is so cheap and uses less land. People won't travel less in America if fossil fuels are more expensive. Hell look at Europe. Gas prices are double and triple that of the US right now there's not less travel going on there.

Wind farms, Nuclear plants take up so much space they will never become viable in the US. Not until they can create more energy. Energy taxes just end up giving the poor less energy to use in the end. They don't do anything to upper and middle class for the most part. Has anyone in Europe stopped using fossil fuels because of energy tax? Hell no and the continent is still going broke.

Just like health care in America do you realize that health care will just have less competition and will raise premiums in America? The problem in America is crony capitalism and it's really not even capitalism. Politicans basically pat the companies they want to work on the back and give them money and let them work and they don't care about the companies that are worse off. Why do you think big pharmacy likes the healthcare bill? They get less competition and get to rip off Americans and put whatever price they want to on everything.

Dude, you're preaching to the choir!!!!!! I think you missed my point. . . . . . I hate the hypocritical aspect of all these people (a lot of celebrities) who claim they do this and do that to be 'green' then jump on private jets to fly to who knows where and yet they want to preach to us about how WE should use less. Their like do as I say, not as I do! I'm just saying practice what you preach. If you really want to try to make a difference, change your way of life (but I really don't see this happening anytime soon).

I do have to disagree with you on one point, I do believe that - what was it 2 summers ago? - when gas was selling for over $4 gallon, travel was minimized to a certain extent and the cost of goods did go up (which like you said, hurts the people the most who can lest afford it).

Edited by justawoman

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That was a short time though. When people get used to gas prices being a certain the only thing it changes is that people spend less money on shopping and things like that which hurts the economy in the long run. If gas prices are hiked up for a short time, people do travel less but they've had expensive gas in Europe for a long time and I bet the travel is not any different than it was before.

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I also agree with you about the simpler lifestyle concept. People are quick to say we need to stop using so much fossil fuel, and will point out that they drive a Prius - as they are getting ready to hop a flight to who knows where for a weekend. STAY HOME - STAY THE F*** HOME!

LMAO, Fossil fuels are used for everything in the world. Making them harder to use or more expensive is just going to hurt the poor even more and help the rich.

These "poor" Americans wouldn't be hurt much, and their communities are growing

and they are certainly much more successful with interreligious dialogue

Islam Uncovered Our Christian Brothers

As difficult as it may be for the world to adjust, the best hope for our planet is a return to modesty, simplicity and honesty - as much as is possible.

... The problem in America is crony capitalism and it's really not even capitalism. ...

The problems in America are ubiquitous and pervasive, and there are no easy answers. :mellow:

... People won't travel less in America if fossil fuels are more expensive.

Yes, that's a good example. :guitar_mood:

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. . . I hate the hypocritical aspect of all these people (a lot of celebrities) who claim they do this and do that to be 'green' then jump on private jets to fly to who knows where and yet they want to preach to us about how WE should use less. Their like do as I say, not as I do! I'm just saying practice what you preach. If you really want to try to make a difference, change your way of life (but I really don't see this happening anytime soon).

Of course we can't expect them all to become saints, but people really do tend to mimic their behaviors and activities. Anyway, if they sincerely hope to Save the Earth they could at least try to understand the importance of simplicity, modesty and honesty for everyone, themselves included.

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Now Obama is trying to put all the blame on BP which they deserve most of it. BP messed up the most on this. Even if it was completely accidental, they've had a series of fuck ups since after the explosion. But I think Obama is shocked that there's really nothing he can do. And you hear him say in one sentence it's all the government's fault then try and go after BP in the next. Then the who's ass the kick comment was so forced. That's not like him. If he was a calming figure from day one on this situation, like he more naturally is, then he doesn't look as bad here. Instead he looked for weeks like he didn't care, and now he's trying to look pissed off.

On the face of it the main causes to me look to be a chronic lack of safty inspectors(one per 50 rigs in the gulf isnt it?) in the US and poor safty management by the US companys contracted to do the actual drilling(who have multi billion dollar turnovers themselves). The response to the spill itself just shows the lack of planning not only on BP's part but industry wide given that this situation has never to the best of my knowledge arisen before.

Obama's playing up ye old US anglophobia knowing that dispite a good deal of BP being in US hands the british public are ultimately going to be the ones to suffer most when the pension funds are hit.

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LMAO, Fossil fuels are used for everything in the world. Making them harder to use or more expensive is just going to hurt the poor even more and help the rich. ...

These "poor" Americans wouldn't be hurt much, and their communities are growing

and they are certainly much more successful with interreligious dialogue

Islam Uncovered Our Christian Brothers

As difficult as it may be for the world to adjust, the best hope for our planet is a return to modesty, simplicity and honesty - as much as is possible.

The problems in America are ubiquitous and pervasive, and there are no easy answers. :mellow:

Yes, that's a good example. :guitar_mood:

Does this look like a "poor" way to live?

Amish Business Facts and Figures

Not bad, considering that their formal education ends after the 8th grade ...

Maybe it's time to think harder about what's really wrong with the "modern" way of life ...

Edited by sweetredwine

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Good to see Obama extracting enormous financial recompense from BP.

How soon can the rest of the world expect to receive compensation from the US government for causing wordwide economies to suffer as a result of yank banks lending trillions of dollars to tens of thousands of US crack-heads, and then selling on the debts to the rest of us?

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Good to see Obama extracting enormous financial recompense from BP.

How soon can the rest of the world expect to receive compensation from the US government for causing wordwide economies to suffer as a result of yank banks lending trillions of dollars to tens of thousands of US crack-heads, and then selling on the debts to the rest of us?

Most crack-heads I know can`t fill out the proper paper work nor pass the credit check.

Edited by Poindexter

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