MOJO Robert Plant

[mstork]

Can't agree Mstork. It isn't silly, because none of us KNOW - that's the reality. He'd been a local celeb for years already and his undeniable talent and tenacity could just as easily have borne fruit elsewhere. I say COULD, because I can't say for certain. I don't know.

And I don't think he owes Jimmy anything either. Just the friendship and respect that they both owe each-other.

Because without Robert - and all four members - Led Zeppelin may not have been the success they were. I say MAY not, because I don't know.

It's tough to deal in hypotheticals. I just take exception to the idea that we would have the In The Mood, Now and Zen, Fate of Nations, Raising Sand Robert Plant if we hadn't had the "Percy" Robert Plant. If I hadn't gone to the beach on a certain weekend in 2000 I wouldn't be married to my wife right now. Everything we've done in the past makes us who we are today!

As far as "owing" Jimmy anything, I only mean it in the sense that Robert was playing bars and blacktopping roads when Jimmy brought him aboard. Perhaps someone else would have given Robert his big break and perhaps he and that band would have been huge. We'll never know. But the fact remains that Jimmy Page was the guy who gave him that big break. Doesn't mean Robert has to genuflect every time he sees him though!

The Beatles were brilliant but they'll always owe a debt to George Martin for widening their musical palette and bringing out the best in them. I see the Jimmy/Robert dynamic in similar terms, with the added element of Jimmy actually being the guy who walked into that bar with Peter Grant and Chris Dreja and said, "I want that guy to be my singer!"

[lynn]

Hi all, I haven't posted here for a long tme. My comment is regarding the most recent point in this thread about whether RP would be as successful if he had not been in Zep. I have to agree with Knebby here when she makes the point about not knowing whether he would have been successful without Zep or whether Zep would have been successful without him. None of us can say with any certainty.

I will say this, alot of the musical compositions in Zep were very complex, if any of us would even try to just play the music and try to sing these songs (having the advantage of hearing them for years) we would soon realize just how difficult it would be to do. Now imagine RP having to write lyrics to these songs and find a way to sing them that made sense and made the whole thing come across to audiences, not an easy thing to do.

Because we have heard this music over and over again for 30 years it takes something away from the tremendous contribution on Plant's part. We've just heard it so many times that we take it for granted.

When I first heard Immigrant Song back in the early 70's I remember hearing him wailing at the very beginning of the song and thinking, " Who the F**k is this guy!" I had never heard anyone sing like that.

I don't think Plant owes Page anything. I think they are both thankful that they found each other.

[Aligula]

Anyone who thinks that Robert Plant (or any member) owes anything to anybody is misguided. Plant may have been playing bars etc but things can change quickly for people. Who's to say he wouldn't have become massive without Zeppelin? Particularly considering how original his vocal is/was. Also, don't forget he was only in his teens! That is very early days. He had years ahead of him to get somewhere.

With regards to people on this forum that think the members of Zeppelin owe their fans something....that is hilarious. If anything, we owe them for filling our lives with their music. I for one am grateful that I got to experience their talent. Fans would only be owed if they were doing favours. People listen because they like. Not for the sake of someone else. That in itself is doing something for ones self. A selfish act. Why would anyone owe you for that? A very odd way of thinking I have to say!

[EricZepp]

In the next issue of Mojo, there is quite a strongly worded response to the Robert Plant feature being discussed here:

"What the hell is the matter with Robert Plant? He appears to shiver in awe and shock when contemplating his legacy in the best rock band ever. It's like Plant lives in fear that a hidden 'wound' from his Led Zeppelin days might rip and the scar will start bleeding again. I agree with Jimmy Page; Plant is the main obstacle to several more reunion concerts" (Michele Pouliart, Antwerp, Belgium).

He's hit the nail on the head there, except maybe he should have said 'only' instead of 'main'. I wonder whether RP will see this, and what he will think? 'Please Read the Letter'

[Oracle]

Anyone who thinks that Robert Plant (or any member) owes anything to anybody is misguided.

With regards to people on this forum that think the members of Zeppelin owe their fans> ( beneficial supporters, THE MONEY !) something....that is hilarious. If anything, we owe them for filling our lives with their music. I for one am grateful that I got to experience their talent. Fans would only be owed if they were doing favours. People listen because they like. Not for the sake of someone else. That in itself is doing something for ones self. A selfish act. Why would anyone owe you for that? A very odd way of thinking I have to say!

What ever happened to "the customer is always right ? " Just sayin'.

*OH, the italized and bold in the above quote are my addition !

[glicine]

Well I guess it's not the first "letter" he has received since 1980.

[Jahfin]

In the next issue of Mojo, there is quite a strongly worded response to the Robert Plant feature being discussed here:

"What the hell is the matter with Robert Plant? He appears to shiver in awe and shock when contemplating his legacy in the best rock band ever. It's like Plant lives in fear that a hidden 'wound' from his Led Zeppelin days might rip and the scar will start bleeding again. I agree with Jimmy Page; Plant is the main obstacle to several more reunion concerts" (Michele Pouliart, Antwerp, Belgium).

He's hit the nail on the head there, except maybe he should have said 'only' instead of 'main'. I wonder whether RP will see this, and what he will think? 'Please Read the Letter'

It's just more bellyachin' from those that feel Plant and the surviving members of Zeppelin owe them something. Do people really want a reunion even though Plant's heart isn't in it?

[Kentuckygirl]

Wonder if they are just friends or More? Also, her band members aren't fat with beards? Well the one dude has a beard but not fat??? Guess he's being funny. Wonder what happened to all that Daniel Lanois stuff they were attempting? Probably not the right fit.

The fat blokes with beards that Plant was referring to in that interview actually thought his comment was funny. They have had a lot of fun with that interview.

[ledrim]

I think the really sad angle to all this is that Jimmy has never properly recovered from Robert leaving him in '98. Jimmy was playing so well in '98, probably cleaner than '75 and who know what they could have accomplished if they stayed together. Unfortunately, this period of time was never captured in the studio, besides WIC, which most agree did not have that Page influence that most would have liked. Somehow Jimmy "found" himself and then basically wasted it again with his inactivity. Even if he puts something new together, you have to wonder what he has left...hopefully a lot.

[EricZepp]

Do people really want a reunion even though Plant's heart isn't in it?

I suppose some people do, Jahfin - the same way they enjoy sex, even if their partner's heart isn't in it

[Electrophile]

It's just more bellyachin' from those that feel Plant and the surviving members of Zeppelin owe them something. Do people really want a reunion even though Plant's heart isn't in it?

If Plant's heart is not in it, it'll suck. Who wants to watch their favorite band go on stage and embarrass themselves? His heart was in the O2 concert, which is why it was great. He clearly is past that, over that, beyond that and through with that. So let it be.

[EricZepp]

Whispering words of wisdom again there, Electro

[Paul McCluskey]

I'm happy with the fact that Robert is optimistic about making another album with Alison.

[Electrophile]

So am I -- I loved Raising Sand.

[DBJ]

These are the facts of the matter:

I saw Robert Plant in concert and it was awesome.

Then I saw Page and Plant in concert and it was so much better.

Finally I saw JPJ in concert and it was then that I discovered what was missing.

The members of Led Zeppelin when they get together their is a synergistic effect. They are better than the sum of the parts.

So Led Zeppelin or whatever you want to call it without Bonzo might not be better than the original, but it is so much better than just a single component.

The fact is Robert Plant by himself as good as it may be, It always could be better.

Perhaps Jimmy Page is the smart one here. He knows that anything without the others could only be at best second best.

Look how much better Pictures at Eleven could have been if it were crossed with element from DWII

Look how much better "Calling to You" and "Shake My tree" were in 1996

I would think that as a performer Robert would (at least on occasion) want to be the best he can be.

One of his current excuses is that he doesn't want the head ache of all the drama it would create. Then he goes on to say that if they just called it Page/Plant/Jones it wouldn't be as successful.

If you don't want the Drama then do call it Page/Plant/Jones, and that way you play in the smaller venues that you supposedly desire. Plus you would weed out all the Poser LZ fans ( one of the more enjoyable perks of the JPJ concert at the House of Blues, only real fans in attendance)

As it stands now Plant comes very close to looking like he exploits LZ to boost his own career.

( Shaken N Stirred showed a decline in momentum then you have Live Aid. Manic Nirvana Showed a slight loss of momentum then you have Knebworth with Page and Rumors of a Reunion. Fate of Nations shows a definite decline in momentum and get Page/Plant. 2002 Dreamland has critical success so talk of a DVD inspired reunion in 2003 come to an end. 2005 Mighty ReArranger a little more successful as well as critically successful, but his solo career still pales in comparison to his 80's and 90's career. Led Zeppelin reunion o2 . His Raising Sand CD takes off (his most successful album ever in terms of industry accolades) and any reunion hopes disappear. )

Robert Plant often talks about the Legacy of LZ and the memory of Bonham, but nothing tarnishes those things more than exploiting LZ to further his own career. Obviously he's not doing it for the money, but perhaps even worse for his own person fame and popularity.

I think the post Live Aid backstage interview with the band members tells a lot. It shows that Robert Plant has a lot of insecurities which I think makes it impossible for Robert to be part of a true band effort.( where is T-Bone?)

I not saying that Plant is indeed exploiting Zeppelin, but a definite case could be made to support that

[Jahfin]

I not saying that Plant is indeed exploiting Zeppelin, but a definite case could be made to support that

Then, it is what you're saying. I don't believe YOU.

[glicine]

Then he goes on to say that if they just called it Page/Plant/Jones it wouldn't be as successful.

Wow, could you tell me when and where did he say this? I' have never heard about such quotes.

[DBJ]

Wow, could you tell me when and where did he say this? I' have never heard about such quotes.

Plant argues that a Zeppelin without late drummer John Bonham, who died in 1980, did not quite merit the name, but acknowledges that "if the three of us got together and called ourselves 'Page & Jones & Plant' it wouldn't carry the same oomph."

[DBJ]

Then, it is what you're saying. I don't believe YOU.

What I am saying is I don't know if Robert Plant consciously and knowingly says to himself "gee things seem to be going a little south right now, how can I associate myself with Led Zeppelin again to regenerate interest in my career."

or (most likely the case) he from time to time gives in to temptation perhaps on a subconscious level and later on regrets it.

Facts are facts. Either he is doing it purposely or subconsciously. I personally think the latter, but with all the negative things he says which seems to be hurtful to others (poor Jason Bonham over the years. And Page and Jones have suffered as well.) It can be hard to tell.

[glicine]

Plant argues that a Zeppelin without late drummer John Bonham, who died in 1980, did not quite merit the name, but acknowledges that "if the three of us got together and called ourselves 'Page & Jones & Plant' it wouldn't carry the same oomph."

Well I was asking "when and where did he state this", could you give me a link or something?

[ninelives]

What I am saying is I don't know if Robert Plant consciously and knowingly says to himself "gee things seem to be going a little south right now, how can I associate myself with Led Zeppelin again to regenerate interest in my career."

or (most likely the case) he from time to time gives in to temptation perhaps on a subconscious level and later on regrets it.

Facts are facts. Either he is doing it purposely or subconsciously. I personally think the latter, but with all the negative things he says which seems to be hurtful to others (poor Jason Bonham over the years. And Page and Jones have suffered as well.) It can be hard to tell.

You're basing your feelings on the three guys being better as a whole than individually on how they were as a FOURsome. A lot has changed for all of them in the last 30 years. They, nor anyone can recreate the past. I honestly don't think Robert feels any regrets about his solo career nor do I think his goal is to sell millions of records. He's interested in exploring different musical genres and challenging himself as a singer and performer. I've seen him on every solo tour except 1983 and he has always looked pretty darned happy with whatever he's doing.

I think it's sad that Jimmy seems to be a bit paralyzed to really put himself out there on his own. He's an incredible talent in the studio and on the stage. I don't see it as an "intelligent" choice he's made to sort of say Zep or nawt.

Just my two pence.

[DBJ]

Well I was asking "when and where did he state this", could you give me a link or something?

It was stated in the Mojo interview at the beginning of this thread. Here is the Link again

I'm not an Anti Robert Plant person. I like his all his music, and I own multiple copies of everything he has done post Zeppelin including 9-Lives which is redundant. I even have the stuff like the Inner Flame, More Oar, Mumbo Jumbo, Little By Little EP, " Let that Boogie Woogie Roll", " Little Sister", Good Rockin' Tonight - The Legacy of Sun Records, Knebworth 1990, and others.

I like him personally as well. I think he is a nice guy and a pretty cool guy, but all the excuses for at least merely getting together with his former band mates is wearing thin. I seriously think he needs to set down with a therapist over the whole situation. That is why I stated that I think he's not consciously exploited LZ.

I mean seriously how many times in his post Led Zeppelin career has his Lyrics/Songs/Albums referenced Led Zeppelin. Their are many things that people lyrically write about: Love, Anger, Something they are passionate about, Some political cause, and in Robert Plant's case his association with Led Zeppelin (not that thats a bad things because most of his best work stems from it.)

But go see a therapist

[estofest]

These are the facts of the matter:

I saw Robert Plant in concert and it was awesome.

Then I saw Page and Plant in concert and it was so much better.

Finally I saw JPJ in concert and it was then that I discovered what was missing.

The members of Led Zeppelin when they get together their is a synergistic effect. They are better than the sum of the parts.

So Led Zeppelin or whatever you want to call it without Bonzo might not be better than the original, but it is so much better than just a single component.

The fact is Robert Plant by himself as good as it may be, It always could be better.

Perhaps Jimmy Page is the smart one here. He knows that anything without the others could only be at best second best.

Look how much better Pictures at Eleven could have been if it were crossed with element from DWII

Look how much better "Calling to You" and "Shake My tree" were in 1996

I would think that as a performer Robert would (at least on occasion) want to be the best he can be.

One of his current excuses is that he doesn't want the head ache of all the drama it would create. Then he goes on to say that if they just called it Page/Plant/Jones it wouldn't be as successful.

If you don't want the Drama then do call it Page/Plant/Jones, and that way you play in the smaller venues that you supposedly desire. Plus you would weed out all the Poser LZ fans ( one of the more enjoyable perks of the JPJ concert at the House of Blues, only real fans in attendance)

As it stands now Plant comes very close to looking like he exploits LZ to boost his own career.

( Shaken N Stirred showed a decline in momentum then you have Live Aid. Manic Nirvana Showed a slight loss of momentum then you have Knebworth with Page and Rumors of a Reunion. Fate of Nations shows a definite decline in momentum and get Page/Plant. 2002 Dreamland has critical success so talk of a DVD inspired reunion in 2003 come to an end. 2005 Mighty ReArranger a little more successful as well as critically successful, but his solo career still pales in comparison to his 80's and 90's career. Led Zeppelin reunion o2 . His Raising Sand CD takes off (his most successful album ever in terms of industry accolades) and any reunion hopes disappear. )

Robert Plant often talks about the Legacy of LZ and the memory of Bonham, but nothing tarnishes those things more than exploiting LZ to further his own career. Obviously he's not doing it for the money, but perhaps even worse for his own person fame and popularity.

I think the post Live Aid backstage interview with the band members tells a lot. It shows that Robert Plant has a lot of insecurities which I think makes it impossible for Robert to be part of a true band effort.( where is T-Bone?)

I not saying that Plant is indeed exploiting Zeppelin, but a definite case could be made to support that

This is a really interesting perspective. I've never been a fan of Robert's solo work, except for Mighty Rearranger. Raising Sand was a bad cover album in my opinion, (I bought it and tried to listen to it but couldn't get into it). Is it true that the timing of Robert's albums coincided with a teaming up with Jimmy or is it all speculative or coincidental?

[ninelives]

It was stated in the Mojo interview at the beginning of this thread. Here is the Link again

I'm not an Anti Robert Plant person. I like his all his music, and I own multiple copies of everything he has done post Zeppelin including 9-Lives which is redundant. I even have the stuff like the Inner Flame, More Oar, Mumbo Jumbo, Little By Little EP, " Let that Boogie Woogie Roll", " Little Sister", Good Rockin' Tonight - The Legacy of Sun Records, Knebworth 1990, and others.

I like him personally as well. I think he is a nice guy and a pretty cool guy, but all the excuses for at least merely getting together with his former band mates is wearing thin. I seriously think he needs to set down with a therapist over the whole situation. That is why I stated that I think he's not consciously exploited LZ.

I mean seriously how many times in his post Led Zeppelin career has his Lyrics/Songs/Albums referenced Led Zeppelin. Their are many things that people lyrically write about: Love, Anger, Something they are passionate about, Some political cause, and in Robert Plant's case his association with Led Zeppelin (not that thats a bad things because most of his best work stems from it.)

But go see a therapist

What? Why should he see a therapist for doing what he wants to do? He hasn't given excuses - he's given REASONS why he isn't interested in forming Zep.

[glicine]

It was stated in the Mojo interview at the beginning of this thread. Here is the Link again

Look at what you said in your first post in this thread, "Then he goes on to say that if they just called it Page/Plant/Jones it wouldn't be as successful." is the same thing as "it wouldn't carry the same oomph"?

Please don't twist his words.

And I don't think he needs to see a therapist just because he is not doing what some other people want him to do, actually I think it's rather rude to say so. He is a mature musician, a man with a lot of life expierences, and know himself probably much better than we do.