The Black Sabbath Thread

[Chowder]

Here you go.

Or if that's not your flavor, you can have this.

I said Iommi is better at writing riffs, and I don't even think it's close. If Page wrote every Zeppelin riff, I would have them tied at #1, but as far as I know, JPJ wrote a lot of Zeppelin's riffs, especially the ones that are notes instead of chords. If we're talking about solos or overall, I'd take Page over Iommi. I don't think Richards even belongs in the discussion.

Well, I haven't had any cake today, so I'll take that, thank you!

With you on Keef. Never was so little stretched so far. But I think Silvermedalist prefers his music lightweight. He worships The Eagles and Jethro Tull, you know.

As for Iommi, I'd be surprised if he wrote ALL the Sabs' riffs.

[Aquamarine]

Nobody's ever claimed Richards was a great soloist, including him. He IS the Human Riff, however. And many current rock guitarists owe him a debt they can only imagine, on the same order as his own acknowledged debt to Chuck Berry.

[MMAharaja]

Well, I haven't had any cake today, so I'll take that, thank you!

With you on Keef. Never was so little stretched so far. But I think Silvermedalist prefers his music lightweight. He worships The Eagles and Jethro Tull, you know.

As for Iommi, I'd be surprised if he wrote ALL the Sabs' riffs.

Yeah. Geezer definitely came up with some of Sabbath's riffs, and he also wrote most of their pre-Dio lyrics. Iommi wrote most of the riffs though. And Iommi is still writing great riffs.

Edit: I found a quote from Geezer that leads me to believe Tony was doing most of the heavy lifting as far as the riffs go.

"Geezer: When we first used to write, it used to be all together. That's the way it was done. Tony would come out with a riff, then I would put the bass in and Bill Ward would drum along."

http://www.black-sabbath.com/interviews/tonygeez_0594.html

Edited September 27, 2010 by MMAharaja

[danelectro]

Nobody's ever claimed Richards was a great soloist, including him. He IS the Human Riff, however. And many current rock guitarists owe him a debt they can only imagine, on the same order as his own acknowledged debt to Chuck Berry.

Still I don't think he gets enough credit for his soloing. For example in the days of the early Stones he was their primary soloist, with the exception of Brian's slide work, and those early Stones records are chock full of blues tunes with tasty solos and fills on par with anything anyone was doing at the same time.

[Aquamarine]

Still I don't think he gets enough credit for his soloing. For example in the days of the early Stones he was their primary soloist, with the exception of Brian's slide work, and those early Stones records are chock full of blues tunes with tasty solos and fills on par with anything anyone was doing at the same time.

True enough, though with the advent of Mick Taylor he gradually slid more into the rhythm guitarist slot.

[danelectro]

True enough, though with the advent of Mick Taylor he gradually slid more into the rhythm guitarist slot.

Without a doubt. As much as I enjoy MT's playing I often find myself thinking some songs would have benefit from an extra dash of Keith, especially live where there was no blurring of the roles. I swear he layed back on purpose at times. Some of the old vids, like the R&R Circus and '72 tour rehearsals, show him to be fleet fingered when he wanted to be. Though certainly not one to grind out some trill filled soloing a-la Page or Iommi.

[silvermedalist]

Well, I haven't had any cake today, so I'll take that, thank you!

With you on Keef. Never was so little stretched so far. But I think Silvermedalist prefers his music lightweight. He worships The Eagles and Jethro Tull, you know.

As for Iommi, I'd be surprised if he wrote ALL the Sabs' riffs.

Now wait just a damn minute!!! I worship the following. Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, The Who, Beatles, Pink Floyd and Eagles. Where are you getting Tull? Sure I like Tull. But not like the ones I mentioned above. If you are going to paint me with a fast brush, do it right. /And to that wild and crazy chicky, Ill take the cake, got enough of the other. And Iommi cant touch Keith Richards for overall riff writing. Cant touch him. And Page makes him look silly.

[MMAharaja]

And Iommi cant touch Keith Richards for overall riff writing. Cant touch him. And Page makes him look silly.

As a fan of all three bands, I respectfully disagree.

Just listen to this song, there are five great guitar riffs. The first two minutes of the song sounds nothing like the last two minutes of the song . . . and they aren't even the best riffs of the album (I'd give that honor to the riffs from Sabbra Cadabra and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath).

Edited September 28, 2010 by MMAharaja

[Chowder]

Now wait just a damn minute!!! I worship the following. Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, The Who, Beatles, Pink Floyd and Eagles. Where are you getting Tull? Sure I like Tull. But not like the ones I mentioned above. If you are going to paint me with a fast brush, do it right. /And to that wild and crazy chicky, Ill take the cake, got enough of the other. And Iommi cant touch Keith Richards for overall riff writing. Cant touch him. And Page makes him look silly.

Hey there SM, sorry about that, I think I got you confused with your good friend 'Jethro Tull'. But it's an easy mistake to make - you two are alike in so many ways. But you do LIKE Tull, and that's just plain wrong, IMO. (Scratches head, furrows brow.)

Glad to see you agree about the cake, though. Women, eh - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. But I could never live without cake. Can't get enough of it, it's just not possible. A cake will never let you down.

Dave Mustaine is the true King Of Riffs, btw. No contest. Just ask Hetfield, he'll tell you the same.

[Chowder]

As a fan of all three bands, I respectfully disagree.

Just listen to this song, there are five great guitar riffs. The first two minutes of the song sounds nothing like the last two minutes of the song . . . and they aren't even the best riffs of the album (I'd give that honor to the riffs from Sabbra Cadabra and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath).

Oh no, no no NO, not Sabbra Cadabra! I've never liked that song. I always skip it. Sounds like a dumb-ass yank boogie jam band to me. I've never heard any Grand Funk Railroad or Black Oak Arkansas, but that's what I imagine they sound like. But maybe I'm being too harsh on the Sabs there. I'll never know.

Sabotage is their masterpiece. That album just ROCKS from start to finish. That would be in my Top 5 Heavy Rock Albums Of All Time, with PG, Who's Next, Ride the Lightning and Unleashed in the East.

[silvermedalist]

Hey there SM, sorry about that, I think I got you confused with your good friend 'Jethro Tull'. But it's an easy mistake to make - you two are alike in so many ways. But you do LIKE Tull, and that's just plain wrong, IMO. (Scratches head, furrows brow.)

Glad to see you agree about the cake, though. Women, eh - can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. But I could never live without cake. Can't get enough of it, it's just not possible. A cake will never let you down.

Dave Mustaine is the true King Of Riffs, btw. No contest. Just ask Hetfield, he'll tell you the same.

Just dont put any sage in it. And I am not like Jethro. Man.

[JethroTull]

Just dont put any sage in it. And I am not like Jethro. Man.

Looks like the two lovebirds are at it again. Bringing my name up for no apparent reason.

[JethroTull]

Hey there SM, sorry about that, I think I got you confused with your good friend 'Jethro Tull'. But it's an easy mistake to make - you two are alike in so many ways.

Not really. Joel has had dozens of identities here. I've only had one.

Edited September 28, 2010 by JethroTull

[silvermedalist]

Not really. Joel has had dozens of identities here. I've only had one.

You have it all wrong. Chowder brought up the band Tull. 'And Chowder is not Joel. Take my word for it. And you know Im not and if you think I am go ask the mods. You are always way off. What is your problem? You always accuse people of being who they are not. That is why I had to take you off ignore to read your silly post

[Ady]

I worship the following. Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones...

And Iommi cant touch Keith Richards for overall riff writing. Cant touch him. And Page makes him look silly.

[silvermedalist]

Ha. Thats a good one. This old doggie is lookin with rose colored glasses? At Page and Richards? Put the crack pipe away. Are you saying Iommi is in the same league as Page? Why did you quote the part of worshipping Zeppelin and the Stones? This is a Led Zeppelin site. And Led Zeppelin is and always was far better than Black Sabbath and Jimmy Page can play circles around Iommi.

[Electrophile]

Am I the only person who thinks it's a tad creepy to "worship" people? You can like Led Zeppelin without resorting to deification. It's a little.......obsessive. I don't know, I find that kind of stuff to be very unhealthy.

[silvermedalist]

Am I the only person who thinks it's a tad creepy to "worship" people? You can like Led Zeppelin without resorting to deification. It's a little.......obsessive. I don't know, I find that kind of stuff to be very unhealthy.

I dont mean it literally for Gods sake. You simply must do anything you can to jump on me. I was expecting Jethro to come at me. Instead, its you. What a surprise.

[Ady]

Ha. Thats a good one. This old doggie is lookin with rose colored glasses? At Page and Richards? Put the crack pipe away. Are you saying Iommi is in the same league as Page? Why did you quote the part of worshipping Zeppelin and the Stones? This is a Led Zeppelin site. And Led Zeppelin is and always was far better than Black Sabbath and Jimmy Page can play circles around Iommi.

I like the original lineup of Black Sabbath as much as Led Zeppelin.

Jimmy Page is one of my favourite guitarists. Tony Iommi is one of my favourite guitarists.

You like Zeppelin and Page more. That's fine, but I find remarks like "Jimmy Page can play circles around Iommi" and "Page makes him look silly" hard to take seriously.

[silvermedalist]

I like the original lineup of Black Sabbath as much as Led Zeppelin.

Jimmy Page is one of my favourite guitarists. Tony Iommi is one of my favourite guitarists.

You like Zeppelin and Page more. That's fine, but I find remarks like "Jimmy Page can play circles around Iommi" and "Page makes him look silly" hard to take seriously.

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. And mine is Black Sabbath is not in the same league as Led Zeppelin and most would agree.

[danelectro]

I don't think Black Sabbath could be more important, it can be argued they are directly responsible for kicking of a genre of music that grew into a very big thing. Not many bands can be attributed to something that remarkable. In that regard they are amongst a select few.

[Ady]

You are entitled to your opinion as am I. And mine is Black Sabbath is not in the same league as Led Zeppelin and most would agree.

Popularity isn't important to me.

[Rock N' Rollin' Man]

Popularity isn't important to me.

I'm in complete agreement.

[danelectro]

Mainstream popularity means nothing to me. However some of the most influential musicians in history were very popular amongst other musicians and that means something to me. Sometimes being progressive means alienating people, for some being true to themselves is more important than acceptance.

[Chowder]

Great as they undoubtedly were, the Sabs were a fairly bovine band, in all respects, compared to Zep. Very unsophisticated, and not very classy. Kind of like the Pistols compared to The Clash.