sweetredwine Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) An "LOL" comment on Facebook led me to this research, and they've got a point ... whatever happened to the intrinsic importance of certain values that were once considered ancient and sacred, are they no longer eternal? For sure, they no longer seem "valid" in Western society. This list Ethical-Social Values gives 84 values, but virginity, chastity, purity, and conjugal fidelity are nowhere to be found. "Devotion" and "loyalty" are there, but they don't exactly mean the same thing ... Are these values no longer important? Only certain sects of Islam seem to priviledge them anymore. According to http://www.reversespins.com/OraclesandMysterySchools.html truth and virginity were usually linked in previous civilizations ... and if not big problems could ensue. That article mentions that "Plato also wrote about Atlantis. Toward the end of this civilization, it was rumored that only 500 out of 60 million gave credence to the word of Truth." Could that be why "stability" isn't one of the 84 values listed either? Edited September 5, 2010 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) Maybe the widespread availability of birth control and low-cost DNA testing has lessened the importance of virginity and chastity nowadays, but what would happen to our families and society if we lost all concept of the value of "purity"? At least in Glastonbury (where the tradition has existed for thousands of years) Virgins can still be found ... ... waiting to see Neil Young ... Edited September 5, 2010 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted September 7, 2010 Author Share Posted September 7, 2010 (edited) Only certain sects of Islam seem to priviledge them anymore. WRONG, this Indian fellow (Srinivas, perhaps from a conservative Hindu society) says "Whatever may be the situation, it is imperative that a girl should be a virgin before marriage. It is not about our tradition but there is a real good reason why our elders have put this in the society. Perhaps that is one reason why our country is still respected in the outside world.” Spotlight: Is Virginity Before Marriage Necessary? Hopefully he won't search for a young bride in the UK where 'Streetwise' British teenagers are ignorant about sex, survey reveals and "only 6% of these teenagers intended waiting until marriage ..." Why is this so, doesn't anyone want to talk about "Real Good Reasons" anymore? Edited September 7, 2010 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil. Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 (edited) Well for me, the ancient sacred value of Thank You For example when someone has held a door open for you.. Guys do not get offended if you use the word Thank You Edited September 9, 2010 by Cecil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 Why were you talking to yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 Why were you talking to yourself? Who are you talking to Electrophile, me or Cecil? Saudi Arabian culture is more healthy than ours in many ways - for example, Saudi Arabian men do not expect a woman to fully demonstrate her sexual prowess or conceive/deliver a child until AFTER marriage. Respect and admiration for virginity is a BASIC Sacred Ethic that is both important and necessary for a sane and just society, yet it is almost completely lacking in Western societies like ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool In The Rain 60 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Who are you talking to Electrophile, me or Cecil? Saudi Arabian culture is more healthy than ours in many ways - for example, Saudi Arabian men do not expect a woman to fully demonstrate her sexual prowess or conceive/deliver a child until AFTER marriage. Respect and admiration for virginity is a BASIC Sacred Ethic that is both important and necessary for a sane and just society, yet it is almost completely lacking in Western societies like ours. Hi 'sweetredwine' think she maybe talking to you read post #3, and it was over a year ago that the comment was made... Edited December 17, 2011 by Fool In The Rain 60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Hi 'sweetredwine' think she maybe talking to you read post #3, and it was over a year ago that the comment was made... You're probably right ... and she's probably right too ... Edited December 17, 2011 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Yup. They don't allow women to drive or vote, and if they get caught committing adultery, they get lashed or stoned. Sounds pretty healthy to me. Not. Look deeper, Major Major - the basis for society and it's evolution - regardless of how far it has evolved - is Sacred Promise to care for the needs of future inhabitants. Rejecting virginity as value rejects the basic assumption that future generations will be planned for above the carnal desires of mankind, and replaces accountable concern for future inhabitants with a generalized responsability spread indiscriminately over the entire society. We have "evolved" so far that we have lost our Sacred, Ancient basics! Just like a huge tower that has a crumbling foundation ... Their foundation is more stable than ours in many ways, and even though it might not appeary "healthy" there is both personal and social accountability for personal actions regarding procreation - and that is a basic requirement for sanity, justice and stability in any civilization. Edited December 17, 2011 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) You know, SRW, I valued my virginity. I valued it so much that I held off having full sex with my first serious gf for three years. By way of thanks, she dumped me and ran off with an evil barbarian with a wrench in his pocket. ... If you would have married her do you think she would have behaved differently? Remember Proverbs 12:4 ... Edited December 17, 2011 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) You can't fix society by reverting to ancient values. Someone will always come along to fuck it up for the rest of us. But at least with ancient values intact, personal and social accountability and responsability are virtues. A society that views accountability and responsability with disdain is an insane society that cannot be stable. Edited December 17, 2011 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Women in the Islamic world are second class citizens at best. Their entire worth as human beings is devalued, from opportunity to education to basic rights as human beings. I don't disagree that virginity isn't an important virtue but to say Saudi Arabian culture is "healthier" is a fallacy. There is no equality between men and women in Arabian culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Why were you talking to yourself? Beucase she is a nutjob? I thought that was plainly obviously by now. Edited December 17, 2011 by greenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) Beucase she is a nutjob? I thought that was plainly obviously by now. And who are you, Greenman ... Mr. Latuftak? http://technology-sc...ounter#comments --- seems plainly obvious Edited December 17, 2011 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 17, 2011 Author Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) I was intending to marry her. But we were only 20 and 17 at the time, way too young to marry. So quit your twisted and uninformed proselytising and judgementalism. Clearly she didn't want to delay gratification - she only wanted cock. And that alone is no reason to marry. No, I don't remember 'Proverbs 12.4', that means absolutley nothing to me. Fuck Proverbs 12.4, and the rest of the evil doctrine that surrounds it. Discarding ancient Proverbs is dangerous because they each express a truth, based on common sense or the practical experience of humanity all over the world - it's not just religious doctrine. Disregarding ancient Proverbs could very easily cost you your life ... especially disregarding Proverbs 12:4 ... Edited December 17, 2011 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool In The Rain 60 Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Discarding ancient Proverbs is dangerous because they each express a truth, based on common sense or the practical experience of humanity all over the world - it's not just religious doctrine. Disregarding ancient Proverbs could very easily cost you your life ... especially disregarding Proverbs 12:4 ... Which one are you talking about? New International Version (©1984) A wife of noble character is her husband's crown, but a disgraceful wife is like decay in his bones. New Living Translation (©2007) A worthy wife is a crown for her husband, but a disgraceful woman is like cancer in his bones. English Standard Version (©2001) An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones. New American Standard Bible (©1995) An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, But she who shames him is like rottenness in his bones. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) A valiant wife is the crown of her husband, and as a boring worm in wood, the woman that does evil things destroys a husband. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) A wife with strength of character is the crown of her husband, but the wife who disgraces him is like bone cancer. King James 2000 Bible (©2003) A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that makes ashamed is like rottenness in his bones. American King James Version A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that makes ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. American Standard Version A worthy woman is the crown of her husband; But she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. Douay-Rheims Bible A diligent woman is a crown to her husband: and she that doth things worthy of confusion, is a rottenness in his bones. Darby Bible Translation A woman of worth is a crown to her husband; but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. English Revised Version A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. Webster's Bible Translation A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. World English Bible A worthy woman is the crown of her husband, but a disgraceful wife is as rottenness in his bones. Young's Literal Translation A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband, And as rottenness in his bones is one causing shame. http://bible.cc/proverbs/12-4.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Which one are you talking about? New International Version (©1984) A wife of noble character is her husband's crown, but a disgraceful wife is like decay in his bones. New Living Translation (©2007) A worthy wife is a crown for her husband, but a disgraceful woman is like cancer in his bones. English Standard Version (©2001) An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who brings shame is like rottenness in his bones. New American Standard Bible (©1995) An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, But she who shames him is like rottenness in his bones. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) A valiant wife is the crown of her husband, and as a boring worm in wood, the woman that does evil things destroys a husband. GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995) A wife with strength of character is the crown of her husband, but the wife who disgraces him is like bone cancer. King James 2000 Bible (©2003) A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that makes ashamed is like rottenness in his bones. American King James Version A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that makes ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. American Standard Version A worthy woman is the crown of her husband; But she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. Douay-Rheims Bible A diligent woman is a crown to her husband: and she that doth things worthy of confusion, is a rottenness in his bones. Darby Bible Translation A woman of worth is a crown to her husband; but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. English Revised Version A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. Webster's Bible Translation A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones. World English Bible A worthy woman is the crown of her husband, but a disgraceful wife is as rottenness in his bones. Young's Literal Translation A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband, And as rottenness in his bones is one causing shame. http://bible.cc/proverbs/12-4.htm Yup. They don't allow women to drive or vote, and if they get caught committing adultery, they get lashed or stoned. Sounds pretty healthy to me. Not. Any one of those translations could help explain Major Major's "healthy society" quandary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) It doesn't matter how stable the 'foundation' might be. Nobody sees a house's foundations - all we see is the visible edifice. And if that edifice has a hideous appearance, nobody cares how stable the foundation is. Women in the Islamic world are second class citizens at best. Their entire worth as human beings is devalued, from opportunity to education to basic rights as human beings. I don't disagree that virginity isn't an important virtue but to say Saudi Arabian culture is "healthier" is a fallacy. There is no equality between men and women in Arabian culture. Proverbs 12:4 uncovers the reality that "equality between men and women" is impossible and undesirable because it denies the truth of marriage and human relationships. Virginity is definitely an important virtue and the fact that Saudis truly desire this important virtue is much healthier than a Christianity that purports its importance yet does not truly desire it (or other important virtues). And it does matter how stable the 'foundation' might be when you're concerned about survival. Edited December 18, 2011 by sweetredwine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I'm sorrry but this is why the bible along with any other holy book should sometimes be taken with a grain of salt. Why is equality undesirable in a marriage? Did God say that or did some ancient hebrew write that little factoid down in keeping with his time? God doesn't see women as lesser human beings. If a woman in marriage exists to exhault her man, then the man has to recriprocate accordingly. A man doesn't marry in order to obtain a servant or a slave, he marries to join with his life partner and all things are equal and shared. This is from the book of Dazedcat 1: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 I'm sorrry but this is why the bible along with any other holy book should sometimes be taken with a grain of salt. Why is equality undesirable in a marriage? Did God say that or did some ancient hebrew write that little factoid down in keeping with his time? God doesn't see women as lesser human beings. If a woman in marriage exists to exhault her man, then the man has to recriprocate accordingly. A man doesn't marry in order to obtain a servant or a slave, he marries to join with his life partner and all things are equal and shared. This is from the book of Dazedcat 1: 1 Women aren't lesser human beings - they are different human beings from men. If a man marries just to join with his life partner where all things are equal and shared he may later regret that he hadn't joined with his male buddies where everything could be equal and shared even more so - and where he wouldn't run the risk of being betrayed, fighting for child custody, being humiliated and made ill, etc. Wives and husbands exalt each other in different ways, and a woman who expects a virtuous man to be a crown on her head is going to be very disappointed. In addition, a woman who expects a man to treat her as equally as one of his buddies will be disappointed when he finds another woman he is more attracted to ... Dazedcat 1:1 sounds like a couple holding hands, but marriage should be sacred, pro-creative and based on truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Utter balderdash. You clearly have some big issues, lady. Think about the issues, Major Major. If a wife is impregnated by another man, her husband cannot be expected to raise that child economically or emotionally; whereas a husband who impregnates another woman is expected to provide for that child economically (at least) and the wife is expected to allow him to contribute, whether or not they divorce. Men and women are very different, and their differences exalt or destroy each other in different ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Save the sermons for the pulpit. This is first and foremost, a message board devoted to Led Zeppelin, not Billy Graham's Gospel Revival Hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Dazedcat 1:1 sounds like a couple holding hands, but marriage should be sacred, pro-creative and based on truth. The book of Dazedcat has helped maintain a 25 year marriage which has produced two great children. You on the other hand sound like a beudoin wandering ancient sand dunes sun blind. I much prefer my way, it's worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfvr Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Here's a virtue for you...... Tolerance - willingness to allow others to lead a life based on a certain set of beliefs contrary to ones own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledzepfvr Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Is this being directed at me? Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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