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Fate Of Nations

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Fate of Nations is an astonishingly brilliant album. I dare say a masterpiece. The lyrical content is compelling, earthy, organic, and evocative while the overall production is flawless. If it were released tomorrow you'd never know it was recorded nearly 20 years ago. 5 stars!

yep, it is brilliant. After FON it took him almost ten years to come up with another soo effort, this time in SS incarnation.

Except that I still keep on guessing if he gave "29 palms" out as a gift to his Alannah lady-friend or borrowed it from her :rolleyes: not that I am terribly puzzled, just guessing :P

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Fate of Nations is a really great album. Then it was remastered and it was like getting a whole new album with all the extra tracks. It was like a complete redo of the experience of buying it the first time.

Some places I think it is a little bit over produced like Colours of a Shade. A great song, but a little too slick.

The remastered version is almost like Robert's Solo version of Physical Graffiti. It covers a lot of different ground and is about as long.

Funny how every one here says its their favorite, yet this album marked a decline in Plant's career. Now and Zen was the Multi-Platinum peak which led to a decline ending in FON which only went Gold. Plant then changed directions and hooked up with Jimmy. (Just like he did after Shaken n' Stirred).

FON is one of his best solo albums, I also like Manic Nirvana. I recently went back and was listening to his early solo stuff, and even though it often sounds very dated (unlike Led Zeppelin) The music still rocks. Lock yourself in a closet and you can really jam out to it. I might be a little more reluctant to cruise by the mall with the windows down jamming to Worse than Detroit, but it is a guilty pleasure.

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Funny how every one here says its their favorite, yet this album marked a decline in Plant's career. Now and Zen was the Multi-Platinum peak which led to a decline ending in FON which only went Gold.

A decline in what, exactly? Just sales?

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Just sales

Oh. Because Fate Of Nations sold just as many copies -- if not more -- than the two albums that were released before and after Now And Zen.

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Oh. Because Fate Of Nations sold just as many copies -- if not more -- than the two albums that were released before and after Now And Zen.

Now and Zen was certified Platinum 3 months after its release.

Fate of Nations was only certified Gold 7 months after its release.

Now and Zen went on to be certified 3x Platinum.

Fate of Nations has only been certified as Gold ( as well as Manic Nirvana)

Perhaps maybe over the years the two latter albums have caught up to Now and Zen, but have not been Audited, but since they haven't been audited we can't make a tell.

initially though it is clear that at their release times FON and MN did not do as well as NAZ.

In fact by record label standards these days they would considered them to have done very poorly. Big Record labels unfortunately expect everything to go multi-platinum to be successful.

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Now and Zen was certified Platinum 3 months after its release.

Fate of Nations was only certified Gold 7 months after its release.

Now and Zen went on to be certified 3x Platinum.

Fate of Nations has only been certified as Gold ( as well as Manic Nirvana)

Perhaps maybe over the years the two latter albums have caught up to Now and Zen, but have not been Audited, but since they haven't been audited we can't make a tell.

initially though it is clear that at their release times FON and MN did not do as well as NAZ.

My point is that FON did not "mark a decline" in Plant's career, since the decline had already been marked by Plant's previous release.

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My point is that FON did not "mark a decline" in Plant's career, since the decline had already been marked by Plant's previous release.

Without inviting pitchforks & torches, FON seemed to be Robert Plant singer, rather than Robert Plant ex Led Zeppelin.

What are Robert's thoughts on the album?

Rather High point I thought , as you say "mark a decline" no.

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My point is that FON did not "mark a decline" in Plant's career, since the decline had already been marked by Plant's previous release.

Oh, I see what you are saying. I thought that you meant that FON sold just as well as his other album including Now and Zen.

You are right that the decline began with Manic Nirvana. (and of course we are talking commercial success, all of them were great albums)

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Robert Plant in Dallas 1993 and Jimmy Page in 1993

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IMO Fate is a excellent album, in my opinion his last actual good album. It's up there with the first two, even better at times. I do respect

all opinions of later material but I do think after FON Plant on most projects became a control freak. The evidence is that the supporting

players as time moved on were not close to Plant's ability. Certainly not Alison Krausses's band, but supposedly one main reason there

was no second album was Plant trying to take over. FON had really good players to help things along; a lot of the the post 2000 stuff

is irritating because although Plant is using competent musicians most are mediocre. A shame because Plant is actually attempting

really creative stuff at times.

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IMO Fate is a excellent album, in my opinion his last actual good album. It's up there with the first two, even better at times. I do respect

all opinions of later material but I do think after FON Plant on most projects became a control freak. The evidence is that the supporting

players as time moved on were not close to Plant's ability. Certainly not Alison Krausses's band, but supposedly one main reason there

was no second album was Plant trying to take over. FON had really good players to help things along; a lot of the the post 2000 stuff

is irritating because although Plant is using competent musicians most are mediocre. A shame because Plant is actually attempting

really creative stuff at times.

Do you think the better musicians declined to work with Plant after FON because word had got out about his control freak tendencies?

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That's a great question. I know that in one interview in 1990 ?? Plant expressed a real interest in working with Trevor Rabin(guitarist from

Yes). At that point , I think Robert was controlling but not out of control. Trevor Rabin himself was known as a bit of a agenda setter and

surely Robert realized that a project with the both of them could only be possible with heavy compromises involved. No surprise nothing

came of it. On FON Robert still sounds like some of the musicians are allowed to do their thing. IMO what came afterward really sounded

like Robert REALLY dictating parts to the other players. I say this because although he did this sometimes before, certain parts of

certain songs sounded suspiciously simple or "mediocre", something that no one would say about the first two solo discs, or FON.

Robert definetly could have driven away potential collaborators; supposedly the 2nd disc that was to come from Plant and Alison

Krause tanked because Robert was trying to take over.

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I am writing this post in well a state of anxiety as to whether my opinion on this thread is welcome. I have no idea as I have never met him if Mr Plant is a control freak but certain parts of the previous posts puzzled me.

Historically 1980 onwards saw a seismic shift in UK music. Led Zeppelin were over but so was in the main the dominance of heavy rock with the exception of Iron Maiden/Motorhead with many of the UK rock bands getting more positive reactions in the US then here.

UK music had splintered into Ska, Soul, New Wave, Punk and many were ideal for the MTV era. The most notable decline was in the UK guitar hero. The style of guitarist changed forever; if Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page and Hendrix were thought of as global superstars in their own right then this was seen as an obsolete style with the new guitar hero's being cut from a very different cloth. Wilko Johnson, Johnny Marr and Bernard Butler been considered the epitome of cool indie guitar work.

What is also notable is that the new generation of bands that emerged throught the 1980's and into the Britpop era started to self reference i.e. be influenced by The Small Faces rather than US Blues and (I think many other nations could not connect even though many of the acts were filled with talent.

I think Zeppelins reputation was poor until say a decade ago. The Hammer of the Gods book had cemented them as some kind of debauched mess of a band sneered at by the punk generation yet at least from Plant Page and Bonzo (as well as Elton John and T Rex who also got criticised) they went to see the up and coming acts and praised their new vision. Only now in the last few years in the UK has their music been played again without irony. Believe we went many years with little airplay at all.

Back to Robert. I mentioned in a previous post that Skin and Adams are well known musicians in the UK. I think to try and compare them to the traditional rock guitarists is wrong simply due to the evolution of what was considered to be a guitarist.

Rock IMHO is still in flux here in the UK. Bands like Pulled Apart By Horses, Royal Blood and Slaves are considered the future but their music again seems to avoid R&B which was such a core component of Zeppelin and Page.

I can understand the comments you both made to extent but simply put the guitarist of today is absorbing almost everything except what drove Page Plant and everyone else on.

Roberts recent work is important and well received here in the Uk. The credits on the last LP list the other musicians individually as co writers and we could be getting a new LP by the end of the year/ early next.

No musician worth their salt gets walked over creatively, Its what drove Led Zeppelin to such extraordinary heights.

Plant may or may not be a control freak but aren't they all.

Love and Peace.

Edited by anniemouse

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I tend to overwrite and I could not get into each Plant project, I would get deleted for sure, and HAVE probably been deleted for lengthiness.

You make some very good points but regardless I am not looking for a Page/70's guitarist replacement. What I am looking for are musicians

who are closer to Robert's ability(you can't expect exact equals) and after FON as I stated the level of musicianship notably dropped.

I can mention for example, Johnny Marr, the excellent guitarist from the Smiths in the 80's, totally un-Page-like. But whatever personality

quirks Marr would bring to the table, Plant simply after FON was for the most part not interested in real collaboration. He certainly tries

to create interesting and vital music, but he is calling all or 90% of the shots and this can to a certain degree be detected, believe it or not.

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Did you ever hear the interview from last year where Robert talked about how the new band worked in the studio. He listens to their riffs and music and remember he is primarily a lyricist and creator of the vocal line of the song. It sounds like he then starts some form of interplay with the music until they all have a fully formed piece of work. Creatively it sounds an interesting process.

I can see there being creative battles all through LZ and all through his solo career. I also think he seems to be the type that can put a line though something when it is not working. I find that refreshing when you think of so many bands who just seem to be going through the motions.

Also The Sensational Shape Shifters seem to consist a many of The Strange Sensation from 2005. So some good will seems to have remained.

There bound to have been falling outs and you get the impression instinctively he walks away from a project that does not click.

Simply put his music has perplexed me at times but never bored me.

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Well the SSS seems to actually be a real collaboration. Just as well Plant was actually not quite an equal in Alison Krauss's band. Plant

certainly deserves praise for not sitting on any one style. I am just presenting my opinion of FON and beyond, and not trying to get fans

to abandon him, just to realize that sometimes you can hear rather weak parts of songs that make you wonder if that part was actually

conceived by the actual instrumentalist. In "Morning Dew", for example some of the guitar and keys parts are so basic they reek of

Plant meddling, the players are not playing like that naturally. This happens in so many songs it is beyond chance.

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I think FON is a superb LP by the way. Your thoughts on Morning Dew are intriguing but can I sight the source material as I can hear Trip Hop pouring out of that song. If you listen to the signature Trip Hop track (IMHO) Massive Attacks : Teardrop (Theme from House) I can hear the blues sound that permeated Roberts music then and still does. The keyboard sound is so minimal you feel it will fail at any moment.

Can you imagine the range of Plant's, Page's, Bonham, and Jones record collections. Their open mindedness made them trailblazers.

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By the way I appreciate I am probably boring you and annoying the other posters. Interesting chat though.

Not at all. I haven't listened to as much of Plant's post-Zep music as many posters. I enjoy reading the differing opinions on it.

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