War Stories

[redrum]

Sorry to ruin the "party" here, but SOMEONE has tos ay this :)

By blackglove at 2010-10-27

The last thing a soldier wants to do is fight.

My deceased brother in-law was in the 414th Night Fighter Squadron in WW2. He was in North Africa, Italy and France. I have a whole bunch of his black & white negatives that he took with his old Zeiss-Ikon camera back then. I think the best pic is of him and a friend next to a bomber that has nose art that says 'The Beautiful Ass' with a jackass painted on the nose.

[spidersandsnakes]

OHHHHH we seem to have a PRO - WAR elite here....who cares anyway, hehehe:)....I, like all sane men and women, do not like war wherever it may originate...left, right whatever:).......I don't think pacifism in itself will ever change things if that is what you are all worried about here:).....you got the whole perspective wrong! Many have died to FIGHT against war like the 4 innocent students on May 1970 at Kent State, Ohio:)...BRuTALLY murdered by those so-called "MEN" in arms of the 'murderous' National GuaRD. Ohhh AND DON'T you all worry about 'lil 'ol me, I can use any calibre of rifle and machine gun...and hand guns, pistols and revolvers to boot...no worries, I'm not THAT stupid:):)......oh, I forgot, I DO like sex better than killing or being killed, of course!!

ROCK ON:)

[Magic Fills the Air]

"We have discovered that there is something more horrible than war - the killing of the spirit in the body, the Nazi contempt for the individual man. The world reeks with the foulness of the crimes in occupied Europe, where a Dark Age has begun anew."

The Times Literary Supplement, 1941.

Personally I want to make sure that this NEVER happens again. Pacifism is not the answer.

Edited to add: I am vehemently opposed to personal gun ownership. And I also consider myself to be a 'sane' person!

[Kayte]

I forgot I made this thread... And you guys got a pacifist to start fighting with you! Impressive!

I appreciate the realism vs. idealism debate. Idealism (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to be a product of the World Wars, which were sorta like meatgrinders instead of the old romantic, noble idea of war. I try to keep in mind what those wars must have been like for the other Allied forces, because in America, civilians didn't have to withstand blitzes or invasions. I don't think we felt how horrible that can be until 9/11. If I had been in Europe during one or both of the World Wars, I might be an idealist/pacifist.

So in other words! Because I ramble! I appreciate the pacifist viewpoint, but don't exactly agree with it completely.

Danny, your boy is handsome and noble-looking! Those are fabulous photos. I heard an American soldier just recently saying that the British military over there (well, anywhere, really) is excellent.

My Grandfather (X) was a Sergeant in The Lighthorse and served in WWI & II.

Told me many graphic tales of gore and and good times amid such a horrible time.

One story in particular was when they came back to London from The Dardenelles and on the way to Southampton and to France by train.

The English officers had all this whisky and food ready to take with them for the trip.

So he marched his section of about 7 troops up to the officer who was "looking after" the supplies and told him he was ordered to load the goods on to the train and asked him where it was to be taken.

They then proceeded back to the train with about 4 or 5 cases of booze and other goodies and partied all the way to the ship and until they reached France.

One Uncle served in the Army, New Guinea (Kokoda) WWII, never spoke about his experiences.

His brother served in the US Navy Small Ships (PT Boats) ship sunk in the Pacific, no survivors, I never knew him.

Pa's jump off point Cairo, Egypt 1916.

He saw action at Gallipoli and France.

Oh my gawd, is that a real family photo?! That is so awesome! What a neat thing to have! And your grandfather was involved in the whole Dardanelles/Gallipoli thing? Lawdy lou... That was so horrible. Those poor ANZACs in the trenches. Your grandfather really is a hero.

And on a side note, did you hear that they think it was Australian soldiers on the ground who shot down the Red Baron? Awesome.

I wanna respond to everyone's posts, because I love them! But I don't have time!

EDIT:

Who's that in your avatar?

Lillian Gish!

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/14604-your-avatar/page__p__488762#entry488762

[imPLANTed]

Hi Barb and thank you, no new baby though unless you know something that I don't, the baby was his brother in laws who is the officer on the far left in the picture of Army boys.

Kind Regards, Danny

Oops! I went back and re-read. Now I understand. Sorry!

[Reggie29]

I forgot I made this thread... And you guys got a pacifist to start fighting with you! Impressive!

I appreciate the realism vs. idealism debate. Idealism (correct me if I'm wrong) seems to be a product of the World Wars, which were sorta like meatgrinders instead of the old romantic, noble idea of war. I try to keep in mind what those wars must have been like for the other Allied forces, because in America, civilians didn't have to withstand blitzes or invasions. I don't think we felt how horrible that can be until 9/11. If I had been in Europe during one or both of the World Wars, I might be an idealist/pacifist.

So in other words! Because I ramble! I appreciate the pacifist viewpoint, but don't exactly agree with it completely.

Danny, your boy is handsome and noble-looking! Those are fabulous photos. I heard an American soldier just recently saying that the British military over there (well, anywhere, really) is excellent.

Oh my gawd, is that a real family photo?! That is so awesome! What a neat thing to have! And your grandfather was involved in the whole Dardanelles/Gallipoli thing? Lawdy lou... That was so horrible. Those poor ANZACs in the trenches. Your grandfather really is a hero.

And on a side note, did you hear that they think it was Australian soldiers on the ground who shot down the Red Baron? Awesome.

I wanna respond to everyone's posts, because I love them! But I don't have time!

EDIT:

Lillian Gish!

http://forums.ledzep...762#entry488762

Yes the photo is real, he was a 16 - 17 year old (I don't really know how old he was except that he was young) kid, 4 '11", was a jockey so he had the horse riding skills required.

He was my hero yet never considered himself a hero.

He told me he was dazzled by the promise of the adventure of WWI and that he and his mates couldn't wait to volunteer and enlist in the AIF, ANZACS and see the world.

His opinion soon changed when the Britlish fucked up by sending them to the wrong drop off point and they saw action in the trenches with a lot of hand to hand combat and mustard bombs etc.

He said at first he went to fight for king and country and then ended up fighting for his and his mates lives.

He had a lot of respect for the Turks as it was Britain and her "colonial allies" who invaded them and they were only defending their homeland and it was exactly what he would've done.

He also fought alongside Canadians, Kiwis, South Africans, Pakistanis, Indians and so on and really admired the Ghurkas from Nepal, who he said were fiercesome warriors.

Legend has it, it was a Canadian who shot TRB down.

I asked him why he joined up (not conscripted) for WWII and he said "this time the bastards are threatening my home".

He tried to enlist for the Korean War but was knocked back because of his age something he couldn't understand because of all the young men that were killed (a whole generation) previously.

That logic didn't hold up because he thought he was fit enough and had survived two wars and marriages and that the younger people desrved to have some kind of life and not become statistics of another conflict.

After the war he studied at university and obtained multiple degrees and lectured at Fremantle University until 1967 - 8 when he lost his second wife and moved in with my family and we shared a room for a couple of years.

We became good friends and the marvellous stories he told and wisdom he shared with me were all a bright eyed teenager could take in, he was my Mentor and taught me everything I know about art.

He also played violin, something I regret not paying more attention to, however I introduced him to Led Zeppelin's music by playing it almost no stop!

Anyone who thinks war is necessary is a fuckwit, however while there are morons out there who want to wage it there are those that will engage them and if in the right will defeat them.

To all those who are serving their countries, be safe and hopefully you will return to your families and friends very soon.

The only difference between wars now and back then is the way they will be fought.

"World War III will be fought with rockets and bombs, World War IV will be fought with rocks and spears..." Albert Einstein

[spidersandsnakes]

"We have discovered that there is something more horrible than war - the killing of the spirit in the body, the Nazi contempt for the individual man. The world reeks with the foulness of the crimes in occupied Europe, where a Dark Age has begun anew."

The Times Literary Supplement, 1941.

Personally I want to make sure that this NEVER happens again. Pacifism is not the answer.

Edited to add: I am vehemently opposed to personal gun ownership. And I also consider myself to be a 'sane' person!

The recent (since the rotten 80s!!) situations that have come and gone in the world seem to point to a return to right-wing spurned war-making like in WWII, because there were NO commies to put the blame on in the 30s, now were there??!!!! The Fascist = right-wing germ should have been eradicated many years ago instead of permitting it to show its ugly black head again!! The enemy is WITHIN....BEWARE all yer sage people out there :)

[Jahfin]

Here's a war story from the Civil War era:

[redrum]

"We have discovered that there is something more horrible than war - the killing of the spirit in the body, the Nazi contempt for the individual man. The world reeks with the foulness of the crimes in occupied Europe, where a Dark Age has begun anew."

Don't tell Atlas that.

Edited to add: I am vehemently opposed to personal gun ownership. And I also consider myself to be a 'sane' person!

Now that's being naive like Neville Chamberlain with Hitler.

[ally]

"We have discovered that there is something more horrible than war - the killing of the spirit in the body, the Nazi contempt for the individual man. The world reeks with the foulness of the crimes in occupied Europe, where a Dark Age has begun anew."

The Times Literary Supplement, 1941.

Personally I want to make sure that this NEVER happens again. Pacifism is not the answer.

Edited to add: I am vehemently opposed to personal gun ownership. And I also consider myself to be a 'sane' person!

Your right, The Dark Age has begun anew and it's only a matter of time before all of us are affected. That's not a political statement on my part nor is it a statement that i throw out there for effect. IMHO, it is the coming reality and unless we are willing to fight for individual rights and freedoms, we are doomed to be nothing more than puppets on a string. Personally, I'd rather fight

[BIGDAN]

Danny, your boy is handsome and noble-looking! Those are fabulous photos. I heard an American soldier just recently saying that the British military over there (well, anywhere, really) is excellent.

Hi Kayte and thanks,

The British Military is Second to none in regards to training and professionalism, but America puts its Money where its Mouth is in all Military matters that I have witnessed, good show on you for doing that.

He is the salt of the earth, and he extends his respect and gratitude to the American Soldiers who he has served with, their help has been much appreciated by all.

I remember the first day he arrived in Afghan, he phoned to say that he ate at the American Army base in Kandahar, Lobster, in the middle of the desert he ate Lobster while at the British base he was served Ration Packs, he said even the Gurkha's eat better than that.

Regards, Danny

PS, Can Admin please tell me WHY this Topic is being abused by ONE individual alone while others have been banned for much less? Any ideas? Posting Off Topic in such Topics is not supposed to be allowed, so why all the double standards then ?

[Anjin-san]

Hi all,

Brother Danny,please thank your son for his service to his country and to freedom.

We are back on track now.Carry on

KB

[ally]

Hi all,

Brother Danny,please thank your son for his service to his country and to freedom.

We are back on track now.Carry on

KB

I'll second that !

[Magic Fills the Air]

Don't tell Atlas that.

Now that's being naive like Neville Chamberlain with Hitler.

I'm not like Chamberlain with Hitler at all just because I don't believe in gun ownership. I don't and have never believed in appeasement policy. I always believe we should fight tyranny especially when it threatens our individual freedom. I just don't believe, like most Americans seem to believe, that I or anybody else needs to own a gun to protect ourselves. We should leave gun ownership to the police and military. I never want to see the day when gun ownership becomes commonplace in Britain.

The statements I made were completely different arguements. I was pointing out the irony in spidersandsnakes post that he claims to be a pacifist, yet he's quite happy to own a gun and use it to protect himself.

[Magic Fills the Air]

Your right, The Dark Age has begun anew and it's only a matter of time before all of us are affected. That's not a political statement on my part nor is it a statement that i throw out there for effect. IMHO, it is the coming reality and unless we are willing to fight for individual rights and freedoms, we are doomed to be nothing more than puppets on a string. Personally, I'd rather fight

I completely agree with you. It's not a statement made for dramatic effect. We're facing a different kind of tyranny in the world now, I don't need to say what it is, I think as informed citizens we're all aware of the threats we face to our individual freedom. It's up to us whether we choose to fight it or not. Like you, I choose to fight to protect the liberties that we all take for granted.

[Magic Fills the Air]

Hi Danny,

I see your boy's getting lots of praise on here, and rightly so. He's done us all proud.

Magic

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

Well, I personally don't have any War Stories to share. The only thing which comes to mind as far as my family is concerned, is the fact that it has always been a dream of my dad's to become a fighter pilot and mind you he was so close to achieving it but sadly he failed the eye test because he was short-sighted! He loves movies like "Top Gun" (the choice is pretty obvious )

He became a Marine Engineer instead! He loves the sea too! He is at the top of his profession at the moment! He is in Belgium right now and heading to The Netherlands and he'll be home hopefully in the 3rd week of November for a well-deserved rest! And somehow, my mom has always had a thing for men in uniform!

I would like to tip my hat to all the brave men and women who are sacrificing their lives everyday in Afghanistan.

Danny, I have to say, hats-off to your son! He is a hero in my book! You must be so proud! And thank you so very much for sharing those wonderful pics!

Now, I am a believer of the concept of peace and love. I am an ardent admirer of the hippie culture but if people actually have the nerve to equate the very circumstances of the Vietnam war and the very concept of peace and what it meant at the time, to the current situation in Afghanistan, they are bloody idiots! I am totally for this war in Afghanistan! The Vietnam war on the other hand was un-called for in my book! If we claim that Pacifism is indeed the order of the day in regard to the situation in Afghanistan, that is pretty much like saying, we should have meekly surrendered to Hitler without a fight during the fuckin' Second World War (reminds me of the stupid strategy and weak-mindedness of a certain body called "The League of Nations" ) and let him take over the entire world! If that had happened, we all probably would be speaking German now and the hapless Jewish people would have been wipped off the face of the earth! And Hitler's next target would have been the Gypsies and countless other races! Believe me, there are so many religious extremists out there today who are miniature Hitlers in the making and unless we stand up together, unite and fight, the world would become an exceptionally dark place!

What pains me is that it is because of the exisitence these extremists and the fact that certain countries (I do not want to take names here for fear of opening up a can of worms!) are actually the breeding grounds (*cough *cough militant training camps ) for these kinds of people that brave men and women are sacrificing their lives everyday and innocent civilians (especially women and children) are getting hurt in the process! It is just sick but nevertheless, there is a need to flush out the rats otherwise the fuckin' dooms-day proposition might actually come true!

As far as personal gun possession is concerned, that is pretty much like taking the law into our own hands! I don't mean to be critical but this law is pretty much responsible for so many shoot-outs and tragedies of epic proportions in educational institutions like schools and universities! (Virgina Tech anyone??! )

I truly apologise if the last couple of parts of my post seems highly controversial! I didn't mean to ruin this topic, it's just that, I had to respond to a certain post which seemed rather illogical to me!

[Mangani]

I'm not like Chamberlain with Hitler at all just because I don't believe in gun ownership. I don't and have never believed in appeasement policy. I always believe we should fight tyranny especially when it threatens our individual freedom.

Don't forget that Chamberlain did ultimately declare war on Nazi Germany, which is why we ended up with WW2.

He gets castigated for appeasement in 1938, when it's not as if anyone else was doing anything better, but he righted that wrong in 1939......while others around the world were still burying their heads in the sand.

[Magic Fills the Air]

Don't forget that Chamberlain did ultimately declare war on Nazi Germany, which is why we ended up with WW2.

He gets castigated for appeasement in 1938, when it's not as if anyone else was doing anything better, but he righted that wrong in 1939......while others around the world were still burying their heads in the sand.

Of course you're right Mangani, but I didn't want the thread to get too bogged down in the politics of war.

On this issue of Britain's appeasement policy, I watched a really good flim on that recently called Glorious '39, I highly recommend it if you're interested.

[Magic Fills the Air]

Now, I am a believer of the concept of peace and love. I am an ardent admirer of the hippie culture but if people actually have the nerve to equate the very circumstances of the Vietnam war and the very concept of peace and what it meant at the time, to the current situation in Afghanistan, they are bloody idiots! I am totally for this war in Afghanistan! The Vietnam war on the other hand was un-called for in my book! If we claim that Pacifism is indeed the order of the day in regard to the situation in Afghanistan, that is pretty much like saying, we should have meekly surrendered to Hitler without a fight during the fuckin' Second World War (reminds me of the stupid strategy and weak-mindedness of a certain body called "The League of Nations" ) and let him take over the entire world! If that had happened, we all probably would be speaking German now and the hapless Jewish people would have been wipped off the face of the earth! And Hitler's next target would have been the Gypsies and countless other races! Believe me, there are so many religious extremists out there today who are miniature Hitlers in the making and unless we stand up together, unite and fight, the world would become an exceptionally dark place!

What pains me is that it is because of the exisitence these extremists and the fact that certain countries (I do not want to take names here for fear of opening up a can of worms!) are actually the breeding grounds (*cough *cough militant training camps ) for these kinds of people that brave men and women are sacrificing their lives everyday and innocent civilians (especially women and children) are getting hurt in the process! It is just sick but nevertheless, there is a need to flush out the rats otherwise the fuckin' dooms-day proposition might actually come true!

As far as personal gun possession is concerned, that is pretty much like taking the law into our own hands! I don't mean to be critical but this law is pretty much responsible for so many shoot-outs and tragedies of epic proportions in educational institutions like schools and universities! (Virgina Tech anyone??! )

I truly apologise if the last couple of parts of my post seems highly controversial! I didn't mean to ruin this topic, it's just that, I had to respond to a certain post which seemed rather illogical to me!

At last we have someone talking some sense on this thread!! I agree with everything you say Kiwi. By nature I'm a very peaceful person too, I don't eat meat because I believe animals should have the right to life just as much as us, and I'd go out of my way to help anyone in need.

I certainly don't believe that all wars are legitimate, for example the Vietnam War that you mentioned, and more recently the Iraq War. However, we had no other choice than to fight in the Second World War, and the current war in Afghanistan is inevitable if we are going to attempt to win the war on terrorism. I'm afraid that it's not going to end in Afghanistan though, and in the future we'll see other countries drawn into the war.

Gun ownership, though, is a completely different matter to war. Claiming to be a pacifist whilst at the same time bragging about how you can shoot a gun as one member here has is completely illogical. Kiwi you're right, gun ownership and the issues surrounding it has been responsible for so many massacres in the US. I know Michael Moore's flims are controversial and flawed, but can anyone really tell me that gun ownership is not a problem for the US after watching Bowling for Columbine?

Kiwi, I think you and I are pragmatists and realists when it comes to war. Maybe we should be in charge of the UN!

[BIGDAN]

My friends Dad's story,

He was posted to Burma during the War and was present at the battle of Imphal on the Indian border. He was a Commando so was in the front line and beyond most of the time. Most nights the Japanese would would creep up too their fox holes and try to drop a grenade it to each and every one of them before a bayonet charge for breakfast. On this one occasion he was a bit slow and while rolling out of his fox hole the grenade exploded and took off both of his big toes, ouch.

Well he was casevac to an Indian Hospital where a pioneering Indian surgeon asked if he could do new procedure which took skin from underneath the foot and twisted it over to create a new big toe, He said yes, why not?

Well the procedure worked and he was able to walk again.

I asked my friends Dad if he ever got to thank the Indian Surgeon and the reply I got was very interesting.

He said "No I didn't, and I wouldn't if I could" I asked why and he said " Because that Indian bastard did such a good job he got me sent back to the front lines for another year" the rest of his ungrateful tirade I will not repeat. I just wonder what he would have said if later in life that same doctor treated him in one of our National Health Hospitals, what I wouldn't give to be a fly on the wall if that did ever happen.

Regards, Danny

[spidersandsnakes]

How about some TRUE Americans here posting some cool war stories from one of the few war eras I truly respect....The American Revolution when the Sons & Daughters of America had the guts to kick out King George's ugly EMPIRE from the New World..now that's what I call TRUE bravery......hhhmmmmmm???!:)

By blackglove at 2010-11-02

[Magic Fills the Air]

How about some TRUE Americans here posting some cool war stories from one of the few war eras I truly respect....The American Revolution when the Sons & Daughters of America had the guts to kick out King George's ugly EMPIRE from the New World..now that's what I call TRUE bravery......hhhmmmmmm???!:)

By blackglove at 2010-11-02

What, you don't call what the British troops went through on the Western Front during the First World War bravery???????????????????

What about the Second World War?????????????? You Americans go on about 9/11 (and yes, it was truly awful) but Britain went through that nearly everyday during the Second World War!!! Churchill was warned by psychologists at the time to expect the psychological breakdown of Britain because we wouldn't be able to cope with scale of deverstation. But you know what the opposite happened, everyone pulled together and a sense of social solidarity was created which led to the creation of a universal welfare state after the war, and the National Health Service, and the biggest urban renewal programme attempted anywhere in the world. I expect the loony Tea Party Republicans in America would call that communism!!

PS. I think it's a bit pathetic that you think you have to go back as far as the War of Independence for a great American war story!!

[Magic Fills the Air]

How about some TRUE Americans here posting some cool war stories from one of the few war eras I truly respect....The American Revolution when the Sons & Daughters of America had the guts to kick out King George's ugly EMPIRE from the New World..now that's what I call TRUE bravery......hhhmmmmmm???!:)

By blackglove at 2010-11-02

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,

Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,

Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs

And towards our distant rest began to trudge.

Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots

But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;

Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots

Of tired, outstripped Five-Nines that dropped behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys! - An ecstasy of fumbling,

Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;

But someone still was yelling out and stumbling,

And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime...

Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light,

As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,

He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams you too could pace

Behind the wagon that we flung him in,

And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,

His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;

If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood

Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,

Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud

Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, -

My friend, you would not tell with such high zest

To children ardent for some desperate glory,

The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est

Pro patria mori.

Wilfred Owen, Dulce Et Decorum Est, 1917

[spidersandsnakes]

What, you don't call what the British troops went through on the Western Front during the First World War bravery???????????????????

What about the Second World War?????????????? You Americans go on about 9/11 (and yes, it was truly awful) but Britain went through that nearly everyday during the Second World War!!! Churchill was warned by psychologists at the time to expect the psychological breakdown of Britain because we wouldn't be able to cope with scale of deverstation. But you know what the opposite happened, everyone pulled together and a sense of social solidarity was created which led to the creation of a universal welfare state after the war, and the National Health Service, and the biggest urban renewal programme attempted anywhere in the world. I expect the loony Tea Party Republicans in America would call that communism!!

PS. I think it's a bit pathetic that you think you have to go back as far as the War of Independence for a great American war story!!

You certainly cannot compare the 2 eras.....the American Rev era and the 2 WW eras!! In any case, are you presuming that King George was similar to Winston Churchill??!...NO WAY...Winston would have surely fought against that LOONY were he in KG's time!! Sure I respect the British in both WWs ....we might well be speaking German or Prussian if both the British and the Americans didn't intervene...JUSTLY i add!!. As far back as the American Revolution...because REVOLUTION it WAS!!....yes, because many people seem to have a short memory when it come to just revolutions....what I am referring to is that the Vietnam War was a DIRTY war and should never have been started....why the U.S. took part in that DIRTY war is still a mystery ) I mean, America was in no danger of being invaded or struck some coolie - wearing guerrilla...was it??!! Let's don't mix things up here:)....and the American Revolution was a JUsT war because it gave TRUE DIGNITY to a neo nation and its democratic values!!