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Black Beauty


Conneyfogle
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23 minutes ago, The Only Way To Fly said:

There's no way this is legit. If it were true real/legit news sources would be reporting on it. Though as my lady friend once out it... If its on Book Face it must be true.

Don't know about that, its just a guitar which was nicked 45 years ago. Only Zep heads would give a single shit about something so trivial in regard to the band as far as any serious news source is concerned. If true a story will likely show up in Guitar Magazine in the near future, probably penned by Tolinsky.

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it is very possible that it is true. henry smith was there from the birth of led zeppelin and even before hand so he knows more about the band than we could even imagine. I dont think he has anything to gain by lying about something like this.

fwiw, when peter framptons long lost guitar was found there was plenty of news coverage.

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11 hours ago, The Only Way To Fly said:

There's no way this is legit. If it were true real/legit news sources would be reporting on it. Though as my lady friend once out it... If its on Book Face it must be true.

LOL - yeah, I cringed at my own reference when writing it, but it was an interesting link. Maybe mainstream news is a bit behind? Would make sense. Not really a priority story or massive coup to invest journalists time researching.

But if the Admins of this site and a few members who seem to be somewhat connected remain silent, I tend to think either its all rubbish, or they are still looking into it. If the web admin has contact with the great one, maybe it's a case of "keep it quiet for now please". Who knows.

Interesting.

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We Led Zeppelin fans would all very much love to hear confirmation that the black beauty has been at long last returned to Jimmy. Then we can stop keeping our eyes peeled for it, ha ha.  I'm sure I'm not the only one on this forum who has seen what looked like that same vintage Gibson model and thought, hmm, naw, it couldn't be, the chances of that...no.  I was wondering who this Perry was that may have helped with the recovery, and read that he is a serious collector, someone who could spot the real thing if he saw it, and I'm assuming would be in the position where people offer to show him quality vintage guitars for purchase regularly. And incidentally, must have good taste since he helped with the recording of Paul Rodgers (who is one of my top 5 favorite musicians) Royal Sessions lp too. 

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21 hours ago, IpMan said:

Don't know about that, its just a guitar which was nicked 45 years ago. Only Zep heads would give a single shit about something so trivial in regard to the band as far as any serious news source is concerned. If true a story will likely show up in Guitar Magazine in the near future, probably penned by Tolinsky.

^What he said. 

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On 2/28/2016 at 9:48 PM, The Only Way To Fly said:

There's no way this is legit. If it were true real/legit news sources would be reporting on it. Though as my lady friend once out it... If its on Book Face it must be true.

Starting to get some press coverage http://www.guitarworld.com/gear-gear-news-electrics-artists-artist-news/has-jimmy-pages-long-lost-black-les-paul-been-found

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18 hours ago, Tangerina said:

We Led Zeppelin fans would all very much love to hear confirmation that the black beauty has been at long last returned to Jimmy. 

YES -- the Black Beauty is back in the personal possession of it's rightful owner, Jimmy Page. 

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So this is true then!! Very awesome!! :D I saw this RT'd in my timeline. Really nice for Jimmy
after so many years!! Oh to see the look on his face when he was presented it.
:wub: 

I wonder if he had given up on ever seeing it again? I hope there wasn't a cash reward
in exchange for its return.  Well bottom line is he has it now after all this time!!

Edited by KellyGirl
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Happy to read Jimmy has the Gibson Black Beauty back. (For nostalgic reasons) That guitar was probably put to extensive use during his session days.

But the new model he used during For Your Life on stage in 2007 is a better built guitar.

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Just now, sixpense said:

Happy to read Jimmy has the Gibson Black Beauty back. (For nostalgic reasons) That guitar was probably put to extensive use during his session days.

But the new model he used during For Your Life on stage in 2007 is a better built guitar.

Perhaps "it is better built" regarding hardware like pickups, frets, Bigsby and machine heads etcetera by today's standards but, the tonal qualities (timbre), of the timber would be inferior given the age difference between the two instruments.

Jimmy could modify or upgrade the hardware if required depending on the condition it was found in and whether it had been taken care of over the last 46 years.

Irrelevant of any nostalgic attachment Page may have had for the guitar, the 1960 Gibson Black Beauty is a classic ranking alongside the '59 Les Pauls.

I'm interested to know where it has been all these years and how it was eventually tracked down. That would be a good story in itself and another mystery solved.

 

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11 hours ago, Reggie29 said:

Perhaps "it is better built" regarding hardware like pickups, frets, Bigsby and machine heads etcetera by today's standards but, the tonal qualities (timbre), of the timber would be inferior given the age difference between the two instruments.

Jimmy could modify or upgrade the hardware if required depending on the condition it was found in and whether it had been taken care of over the last 46 years.

Irrelevant of any nostalgic attachment Page may have had for the guitar, the 1960 Gibson Black Beauty is a classic ranking alongside the '59 Les Pauls.

I'm interested to know where it has been all these years and how it was eventually tracked down. That would be a good story in itself and another mystery solved.

 

You would be surprised at the quality of the Gibson Custom Shop (Historic) guitars. (I own a 59 reissue) They are just as good as many of the vintage models. 

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11 hours ago, sixpense said:

But the new model he used during For Your Life on stage in 2007 is a better built guitar.

Oh really? Curious how you have come to this conclusion.   There  is more precision available today due to computer aided machinery but make no mistake today's Gibsons still cannot compare to the originals. Jimmys 1960 black beauty custom will smoke any new Gibson in many ways. First and foremost, the wood. It no longer exists, gone, finito. Gibson can say they are using Honduran mahogany but it is not the same wood used back then.  That was old growth, very dry,  resonant and light weight mahogany that Gibson can not offer today . Not to mention all of the original glues, construction methods and hard nitro lacquer that was used as well. They all make for a better sounding instrument in 1960.  Then you have the electronics. No matter how hard Gibson tries they cannot replicate and have not replicated the sound of the original PAF pickups. And the original centralab pots and bumblebee capacitors do not choke the tone like modern parts. I have had dozens of recent model custom shop Les Pauls. They are great guitars but they are not the same as original vintage Les Pauls  which I have and have had as well....  Also, Jimmy not only used the guitar on sessions he was using it a lot with Zeppelin at the end just before it was stolen. Especially after he modded the wiring  and added the extra switches. He loved that guitar. Glad to hear he has it back. 

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On 3/2/2016 at 10:10 AM, Ed A said:

Oh really? Curious how you have come to this conclusion.  

It is an opinion.

The myth that vintage guitars are way better quality does not always turn out that way. They made average/bad guitars back then too. The thought that the aging of wood adds to the tone of the guitar is subjective. You could say that about a Stradivarius violin which is much older than the Gibson in this tread. The advancements is electronics (pickups and wiring) cannot be ignored. The technology for producing various types of pickups has grown in leaps and bounds since the 50's. And Yes, I do believe they do produce very good "P.A.F" pickups today. 

When Jimmy's treble pickup crapped out in his #1 Les Paul he didn't replace it with a vintage P.A.F. He replaced it with a Seymour Duncan.

The value of this guitar to Jimmy by far is a sentimental one, not that he didn't have a guitar with THE sound of the original.

 

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On March 2, 2016 at 8:10 AM, Ed A said:

Oh really? Curious how you have come to this conclusion.   There  is more precision available today due to computer aided machinery but make no mistake today's Gibsons still cannot compare to the originals. Jimmys 1960 black beauty custom will smoke any new Gibson in many ways. First and foremost, the wood. It no longer exists, gone, finito. Gibson can say they are using Honduran mahogany but it is not the same wood used back then.  That was old growth, very dry,  resonant and light weight mahogany that Gibson can not offer today . Not to mention all of the original glues, construction methods and hard nitro lacquer that was used as well. They all make for a better sounding instrument in 1960.  Then you have the electronics. No matter how hard Gibson tries they cannot replicate and have not replicated the sound of the original PAF pickups. And the original centralab pots and bumblebee capacitors do not choke the tone like modern parts. I have had dozens of recent model custom shop Les Pauls. They are great guitars but they are not the same as original vintage Les Pauls  which I have and have had as well....  Also, Jimmy not only used the guitar on sessions he was using it a lot with Zeppelin at the end just before it was stolen. Especially after he modded the wiring  and added the extra switches. He loved that guitar. Glad to hear he has it back. 

Have to agree with this, the wood especially is a very important factor. Check out the YouTube video of a guy playing the only remaining playable Stradivarius guitar. That guitar is over 300 years old and sounds, well, otherworldly. The saying, "the older the violin, the sweeter the music" is based in fact, not opinion.

I would seriously doubt any vintage series guitar produced today, regardless of expense, will sound as good as the 1960 BB. Just like vinyl vs. digital, no matter how pristine the source, vinyl will always have a warmth and depth digital will never have.

Edited by IpMan
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3 hours ago, sixpense said:

When Jimmy's treble pickup crapped out in his #1 Les Paul he didn't replace it with a vintage P.A.F. He replaced it with a Seymour Duncan.

Out of curiosity, when roughly do you think that this occurred?

Edited by Rembetis
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On 2 March 2016 at 2:53 PM, sixpense said:

You would be surprised at the quality of the Gibson Custom Shop (Historic) guitars. (I own a 59 reissue) They are just as good as many of the vintage models. 

Yes you would be surprised! I've owned  two Gibson custom shop guitars in the last couple of years and I've had serious problems with both. I would never buy a Gibson again.

Edited by babysquid
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On 2 March 2016 at 3:15 AM, sixpense said:

But the new model he used during For Your Life on stage in 2007 is a better built guitar.

How do you know this? Was it you who had the guitar for the last 45 years? Have you had any experience with Jimmy's replica version? You have absolutely no evidence to back this statement up. I know you've said elsewhere that it's your opinion but I'd really like to know how you came to that opinion. Have you compared both guitars side by side?

There is a reason why the original 57 to 60 Les Paul's are so sought after (and why Gibson's custom shop tries to reproduce them) and that is because for the most part they were excellent guitars. 

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Hey sixpence, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.  And let me be clear I am not saying that current Gibson 59 reissues are bad guitars. They are not they are excellent guitars. But how much comparing have you really done?  I have owned at least 50 1959 reissues from 1994 to the present. And I have had a half a dozen vintage Les Pauls including my current 1953 goldtop which has been converted to 57 specs with all original parts including PAF's.  Every guitar and every piece of wood is different. Yes there are some older guitars that are dogs just like there are some newer guitars that are dogs. But the best old Les Paul will always beat the best new Les Paul when it comes to tone. And that's all I care about is tone. It is not because the wood got older since the 50s. It is because the wood they started with when the guitar was brand new was already very old and grown more slowly and harvested from an area in Honduras where these trees no longer exist. I am not going to explain it here you can research it. But there is a difference in the tone of the wood used on the original guitars. Is it twice as good sounding as a new guitar? No. But is there a difference?  Absolutely. And yes there are great PAF replicas being made now. I have tried just about all of them and my name is on some of the manufacturers models. But none of them sound exactly like an original PAF either. My issue  is with your statement of the reissue he played being a  better guitar than his original. To make that statement without physically playing the two guitar side-by-side is ridiculous. Especially when it's commonly known that the originals generally will outperform reissues.  Recently I have had a Les Paul replica built with all old-growth woods, the correct glues, lacquers and construction and it sounds exactly like my 53 goldtop. Whereas no reissue I've had sounds like my 53 goldtop. Again more proof that the materials used has everything to do with tone produced.  And by the way when Jimmys bridge pickup crapped out in 1972 he did NOT replace it with the Seymour Duncan. He replaced it with a Gibson T top.  The T top has a lower output than the PAF and a quackier tone. A great sounding pickup  in its own right and had everything to do with the change in his tone from that point onward. It was not until much later after Zeppelin that he put in the Duncan and the push-pull pot ruining the tone of the guitar in my opinion. 

Edited by Ed A
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