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Ace5150

Jimmy and Crowley

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Yes, Jimmy released this on the Spring Equinox. ABRAHADABRA, the Word of the New Aeon equates to 418 in Qaballa. THELEMA (Law) and AGAPE (Love) equate to the number 93 in Greek Gematria.

There's nothing subtle about this. The symbolism could not be plainer. Any Thelemite recognizes these numbers and this date. It's another act of Magick by Adeptus Major Zoso/Jimmy Page.

Relax. It's not going to send anyone to the place where the fellow with the Red Cape and Pitchfork conducts his business. But if you're a Christian, and you're really concerned that all of these things are Satanic Influences, do me a favor, give me your collection? I'm already damned and am in no danger of further negative influences. :wizard:

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...magickal...

Gah, the spelling, it burns mine eyes!

Hopefully Jimmy doesn't put too much stock in all this (largely) post-mediaeval/pre-modern occultism.

Edited by Melcórë

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Yes, Jimmy released this on the Spring Equinox. ABRAHADABRA, the Word of the New Aeon equates to 418 in Qaballa. THELEMA (Law) and AGAPE (Love) equate to the number 93 in Greek Gematria.

There's nothing subtle about this. The symbolism could not be plainer. Any Thelemite recognizes these numbers and this date. It's another act of Magick by Adeptus Major Zoso/Jimmy Page.

Relax. It's not going to send anyone to the place where the fellow with the Red Cape and Pitchfork conducts his business. But if you're a Christian, and you're really concerned that all of these things are Satanic Influences, do me a favor, give me your collection? I'm already damned and am in no danger of further negative influences. :wizard:

You sure do post here alot Walter...it's no secret (and Im sure you want it that way) that your well involved/knowledgeable in the mysterious, darker side of things....You sound happy to be "dammed"....and negatively influenced.. I thought that you believe in what you practice, so why would you feel dammed, instead of "saved" by your own actions/beliefs, that I'm sure have taken years to establish?

Years ago, when I was young, impressionable and really interested in this stuff, I would have been impressed and influenced by your education on this "subject". But, besides bullshitting about it here or amoungst others that you share this in common with-it's nothing of importance that'll get you far in the world we live in, unless you genuinely practice "Do what thou wilt" as a way of life...(you have to be self-centered, selfish to survive this) but, maybe in the next one it'll help. Maybe you are capable of casting spells...(in which case has probably already been done to me years ago when I was "involved"), so I'm "dammed" myself for that matter.

My personal history/involvement with this material more than likely does not exceed your own, but I have been around it a minute or two.

Interesting comments you have, and I can relate and understand your written material, but unless your a full blown occultist, (quite possibly?) the messages have no merit in the real world of everyday struggles.

I understand the meaning of "Do what thou wilt", and it's purpose to Thelemites but it doesn't help pay my electric bill, keep my job, house note, car note, cable, phone, child care, etc.etc. In my world it's called "doing what you have to do"...that's my theory/motto. It works quite well most of the time. :)

Edited by Rock Historian

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Well I think the landing page of http://www.jimmypage.com/ today makes his religious views quite clear. So it looks like he was a practicing Thelemite 8 years ago, and by posting this now I reckon that shows a continued interest.

It's not a simple sightseeing trip either, there's religious significance for Jimmy. Words like 'channeling' and 'conduit' show this. And he seems to be including himself in the 'small gathering of Thelemites'.

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@ Cookie- Really? They must have changed the page since yesterday. Wish I had seen it.

@ Rock Historian- Oh, *I* don't "feel" damned, but I've been told by so many well-meaning Xians that I am, that I like to have a little fun with it from time to time. :lol: Yeah, I don't hide my Esoteric tastes and leanings. I've been "out" on this matter for decades. I've studied several branches of the Occult: Western Ceremonial Magic, Freemasonry, Rosicrucian thought, Thelema, Witchcraft, Shamanism and Vodou.

You found Thelema to be "nothing of importance"? I put it to you that it is no more or less so than any other philosophy-- it's all about the focus of the individual. If it doesn't have resonance with you, that's cool. Thelema is not for everybody.

There's no "secret" to it though, or rather, it's a pretty open secret: Reasonable people already know that certain practices allow one greater powers of concentration, focus, visualization, and it's established that certain techniques in Yoga and Self-Defense give one the ability to focus those powers and apply them in the material world. Crowley was one of the first Westerners to study Yoga. Crowley teaches these techniques-- and THIS is where it will, as you say, "help pay my electric bill, keep my job, house note, car note, cable, phone, child care, etc.etc." because you're absolutely correct-- if you cannot master THIS sphere, if you cannot support yourself in THIS world, if you cannot manifest your Will so that the world around you moves (largely) in accordance with that Will, you've got NO BUSINESS mucking about in the Higher Spheres-- you'd be like a Junior High School Student trying to take a 400-Level Seminar-- under-knowlegable and unprepared.

When I was a Soldier, we were taught in Leadership Development that you have have to teach your soldiers to take care of their own home, their own family, FIRST, so they can keep their head clear from worry on these matters and focus on the Mission, and it's the same here. TCB- take care of business. That's the same technique I use with my students. One of the first books I give them has nothing to do with the Occult, and is called "The Richest Man In Babylon" --it teaches you how to think like a rich man, (but one with integrity and honesty) -- and the techniques work. Nothing "secret" about simple finance, but it might as well be in a foreign language to some folks.

From what you say, I suspect you share the same opinion that that I do-- It seems that too many people running towards the Occult, towards Magick, seem to be trying to use it unsuccesfully to escape these responsibilities. You can't. Goetic Daemons won't pay your rent for you. You can sit around and disbelieve in the existence of your Electric Company all you want to, but you'll be sitting around in the dark, sooner rather than later. You'd think this common sense, but there's little that's "common" about it. When we approach the Occult as a self-Illuminating method of Enlightenment we can more clearly see the dangers of self-deception.

But you seem to share with them a misunderstanding of the concept of "Do What Thou Wilt." This is easily rectified. Let me clear this up for you:

"Do What Thou Wilt" does not mean "do whatever you want."

In fact, rigidly interpreted, it's the exact opposite of "do whatever you want." Thelema is a philosophy of self-discipline-- In order to do one's True Will, that one thing which we have self-destined ourselves since before our birth, all the things that detract us from attaining that Will, all that distracts us, all the bad habits that prevent us, delay us, all of those things must be set aside, removed from the field of influence, so that we may achieve that singular True Will to which our Holy Guardian Angel would reveal to us. This is not to say that one should deny one's vices, (indeed, we Thelemites believe our vices should be celebrated) but one should not allow them to interfere with the performance of one's True Will, or at least only allow them to interfere minimally.

Also, some will point out that the phrase "Do What Thou Wilt" is of a future tense-- "Wilt", that which one will do, similar to "shalt", so in this respect one's Will is constantly in a state of becoming, or of a transformative nature. We see Crowley rephrase this in his rituals, also in the future tense, where the candidate is told several times 'Thy Will... be done.'

I'm not sure what you mean by "full-blown occultist"-- Sure, I need separate rooms for the Library and the Temple but that doesn't mean I have a problem, I can stop buying books any time I want! :sos:

To be sure, I am an ordained Priest with a genuine Apostolic succession, as well as a student & teacher possessing direct lineage to Crowley, to Dr. Gerald Gardner and Alex Saunders. Additionally, I am a Knight in several Orders, including the Ordo Templi Orientis, the Knights of St. Francis of Wycombe, I am the Prior of the Knights of St. Joan. I am Priest for a Coven of Witches. I am Guardian Emeritus for the Texas Council of Magickal Arts. But I have a real job. A real career. A real family. And I'm *not* here to recruit, just trying to keep the record straight for those who *really* want to know.

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@ Cookie- Really? They must have changed the page since yesterday. Wish I had seen it.

@ Rock Historian- Oh, *I* don't "feel" damned, but I've been told by so many well-meaning Xians that I am, that I like to have a little fun with it from time to time. :lol: Yeah, I don't hide my Esoteric tastes and leanings. I've been "out" on this matter for decades. I've studied several branches of the Occult: Western Ceremonial Magic, Freemasonry, Rosicrucian thought, Thelema, Witchcraft, Shamanism and Vodou.

You found Thelema to be "nothing of importance"? I put it to you that it is no more or less so than any other philosophy-- it's all about the focus of the individual. If it doesn't have resonance with you, that's cool. Thelema is not for everybody.

There's no "secret" to it though, or rather, it's a pretty open secret: Reasonable people already know that certain practices allow one greater powers of concentration, focus, visualization, and it's established that certain techniques in Yoga and Self-Defense give one the ability to focus those powers and apply them in the material world. Crowley was one of the first Westerners to study Yoga. Crowley teaches these techniques-- and THIS is where it will, as you say, "help pay my electric bill, keep my job, house note, car note, cable, phone, child care, etc.etc." because you're absolutely correct-- if you cannot master THIS sphere, if you cannot support yourself in THIS world, if you cannot manifest your Will so that the world around you moves (largely) in accordance with that Will, you've got NO BUSINESS mucking about in the Higher Spheres-- you'd be like a Junior High School Student trying to take a 400-Level Seminar-- under-knowlegable and unprepared.

When I was a Soldier, we were taught in Leadership Development that you have have to teach your soldiers to take care of their own home, their own family, FIRST, so they can keep their head clear from worry on these matters and focus on the Mission, and it's the same here. TCB- take care of business. That's the same technique I use with my students. One of the first books I give them has nothing to do with the Occult, and is called "The Richest Man In Babylon" --it teaches you how to think like a rich man, (but one with integrity and honesty) -- and the techniques work. Nothing "secret" about simple finance, but it might as well be in a foreign language to some folks.

From what you say, I suspect you share the same opinion that that I do-- It seems that too many people running towards the Occult, towards Magick, seem to be trying to use it unsuccesfully to escape these responsibilities. You can't. Goetic Daemons won't pay your rent for you. You can sit around and disbelieve in the existence of your Electric Company all you want to, but you'll be sitting around in the dark, sooner rather than later. You'd think this common sense, but there's little that's "common" about it. When we approach the Occult as a self-Illuminating method of Enlightenment we can more clearly see the dangers of self-deception.

But you seem to share with them a misunderstanding of the concept of "Do What Thou Wilt." This is easily rectified. Let me clear this up for you:

"Do What Thou Wilt" does not mean "do whatever you want."

In fact, rigidly interpreted, it's the exact opposite of "do whatever you want." Thelema is a philosophy of self-discipline-- In order to do one's True Will, that one thing which we have self-destined ourselves since before our birth, all the things that detract us from attaining that Will, all that distracts us, all the bad habits that prevent us, delay us, all of those things must be set aside, removed from the field of influence, so that we may achieve that singular True Will to which our Holy Guardian Angel would reveal to us. This is not to say that one should deny one's vices, (indeed, we Thelemites believe our vices should be celebrated) but one should not allow them to interfere with the performance of one's True Will, or at least only allow them to interfere minimally.

Also, some will point out that the phrase "Do What Thou Wilt" is of a future tense-- "Wilt", that which one will do, similar to "shalt", so in this respect one's Will is constantly in a state of becoming, or of a transformative nature. We see Crowley rephrase this in his rituals, also in the future tense, where the candidate is told several times 'Thy Will... be done.'

I'm not sure what you mean by "full-blown occultist"-- Sure, I need separate rooms for the Library and the Temple but that doesn't mean I have a problem, I can stop buying books any time I want! :sos:

To be sure, I am an ordained Priest with a genuine Apostolic succession, as well as a student & teacher possessing direct lineage to Crowley, to Dr. Gerald Gardner and Alex Saunders. Additionally, I am a Knight in several Orders, including the Ordo Templi Orientis, the Knights of St. Francis of Wycombe, I am the Prior of the Knights of St. Joan. I am Priest for a Coven of Witches. I am Guardian Emeritus for the Texas Council of Magickal Arts. But I have a real job. A real career. A real family. And I'm *not* here to recruit, just trying to keep the record straight for those who *really* want to know.

Here you go :)

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This is not to say that one should deny one's vices, (indeed, we Thelemites believe our vices should be celebrated) but one should not allow them to interfere with the performance of one's True Will, or at least only allow them to interfere minimally.

This is an interesting, and illuminating, statement in the context of Jimmy's well-publicized addiction. From time to time interviewers have asked him about it and he has never gone the repentant, Eric Clapton route when addressing the topic. For sure he seems happy to have kicked it, but he also seems to be unapologetic about his use of drugs back in the day.

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Hey! Somebody's paying attention! Glad you liked the post!

The Book of the Law (communicated to Aleister Crowley 108 years ago today in the city of Cairo, Egypt) says specifically "veil not your vices in virtuous words: these vices are my service; ye do well, & I will reward you here and hereafter."

Personally, I'd say Jimmy's done pretty well, he's certainly been rewarded....

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@ Cookie- Really? They must have changed the page since yesterday. Wish I had seen it.

@ Rock Historian- Oh, *I* don't "feel" damned, but I've been told by so many well-meaning Xians that I am, that I like to have a little fun with it from time to time. :lol: Yeah, I don't hide my Esoteric tastes and leanings. I've been "out" on this matter for decades. I've studied several branches of the Occult: Western Ceremonial Magic, Freemasonry, Rosicrucian thought, Thelema, Witchcraft, Shamanism and Vodou.

You found Thelema to be "nothing of importance"? I put it to you that it is no more or less so than any other philosophy-- it's all about the focus of the individual. If it doesn't have resonance with you, that's cool. Thelema is not for everybody.

There's no "secret" to it though, or rather, it's a pretty open secret: Reasonable people already know that certain practices allow one greater powers of concentration, focus, visualization, and it's established that certain techniques in Yoga and Self-Defense give one the ability to focus those powers and apply them in the material world. Crowley was one of the first Westerners to study Yoga. Crowley teaches these techniques-- and THIS is where it will, as you say, "help pay my electric bill, keep my job, house note, car note, cable, phone, child care, etc.etc." because you're absolutely correct-- if you cannot master THIS sphere, if you cannot support yourself in THIS world, if you cannot manifest your Will so that the world around you moves (largely) in accordance with that Will, you've got NO BUSINESS mucking about in the Higher Spheres-- you'd be like a Junior High School Student trying to take a 400-Level Seminar-- under-knowlegable and unprepared.

When I was a Soldier, we were taught in Leadership Development that you have have to teach your soldiers to take care of their own home, their own family, FIRST, so they can keep their head clear from worry on these matters and focus on the Mission, and it's the same here. TCB- take care of business. That's the same technique I use with my students. One of the first books I give them has nothing to do with the Occult, and is called "The Richest Man In Babylon" --it teaches you how to think like a rich man, (but one with integrity and honesty) -- and the techniques work. Nothing "secret" about simple finance, but it might as well be in a foreign language to some folks.

From what you say, I suspect you share the same opinion that that I do-- It seems that too many people running towards the Occult, towards Magick, seem to be trying to use it unsuccesfully to escape these responsibilities. You can't. Goetic Daemons won't pay your rent for you. You can sit around and disbelieve in the existence of your Electric Company all you want to, but you'll be sitting around in the dark, sooner rather than later. You'd think this common sense, but there's little that's "common" about it. When we approach the Occult as a self-Illuminating method of Enlightenment we can more clearly see the dangers of self-deception.

But you seem to share with them a misunderstanding of the concept of "Do What Thou Wilt." This is easily rectified. Let me clear this up for you:

"Do What Thou Wilt" does not mean "do whatever you want."

In fact, rigidly interpreted, it's the exact opposite of "do whatever you want." Thelema is a philosophy of self-discipline-- In order to do one's True Will, that one thing which we have self-destined ourselves since before our birth, all the things that detract us from attaining that Will, all that distracts us, all the bad habits that prevent us, delay us, all of those things must be set aside, removed from the field of influence, so that we may achieve that singular True Will to which our Holy Guardian Angel would reveal to us. This is not to say that one should deny one's vices, (indeed, we Thelemites believe our vices should be celebrated) but one should not allow them to interfere with the performance of one's True Will, or at least only allow them to interfere minimally.

Also, some will point out that the phrase "Do What Thou Wilt" is of a future tense-- "Wilt", that which one will do, similar to "shalt", so in this respect one's Will is constantly in a state of becoming, or of a transformative nature. We see Crowley rephrase this in his rituals, also in the future tense, where the candidate is told several times 'Thy Will... be done.'

I'm not sure what you mean by "full-blown occultist"-- Sure, I need separate rooms for the Library and the Temple but that doesn't mean I have a problem, I can stop buying books any time I want! :sos:

To be sure, I am an ordained Priest with a genuine Apostolic succession, as well as a student & teacher possessing direct lineage to Crowley, to Dr. Gerald Gardner and Alex Saunders. Additionally, I am a Knight in several Orders, including the Ordo Templi Orientis, the Knights of St. Francis of Wycombe, I am the Prior of the Knights of St. Joan. I am Priest for a Coven of Witches. I am Guardian Emeritus for the Texas Council of Magickal Arts. But I have a real job. A real career. A real family. And I'm *not* here to recruit, just trying to keep the record straight for those who *really* want to know.

Walt, As I mentioned- I know the meaning of "Do what thou wilt"....maybe I left out "self-discipline"...instead I used words like "selfish" and "self-centered" which is pretty much along the lines of being focused on oneself. And you have to be all of those things as well to achieve your goals or shall I say your rewards. (You get what you put into it) regarding that "way of life".

What I mean buy "full-blown" is very simple...Do you live that life and practice that belief to the fullest? If so, good for you and I wish you the best in your journeys.

For a guy like me, I can't say dabbling in the occult matters all that much to me any longer. I won't get on a topic of religion-but I do believe there is a God or at least a higher power - my belief/faith has gotten me through very difficult times lately and some of my prayers have been answered. I feel very lucky and grateful. I also believe that if you live right and do right buy others-you will be awarded in some positive way.

And this has nothing to do with any religion or practice of any sort..it's just called "living right" and knowing right from wrong...I guess you'd call that a conscience.

Edited by Rock Historian

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So, to wrap it up....Jimmy in the 1970s was the equivalent of Tom Cruise in the 2000s. Both spent lots of money and time aligning themselves with a controversial (dare one say cultish) religion founded by guys who had created their form of spirituality by writing their own books and selling them. The books usually dealt with how to tap into one's inner power, so that you can get what you really want in life (how novel), and leaned on a supposed history of the world (which nobody but them knew about of course), which usually included heavy use of symbols, language, and rituals that were created/invented by using the surface aspects and aesthetics found in the culture of another people, and usually taken completely out of context and made to mean something else entirely. The culture that does get credited as being the "source" of the divinity or power of the religion tended to just so happen to be among a shortlist of topics which were currently popular in the author's home country at the time. In the case of Crowley, the translation of the Rosetta Stone and all of the English explorers digging in Egypt and bringing back all of those artifacts had put the topic into many households in the UK. No coincidence that Egypt "magic" and rituals were even showing up as plot devices in things like Sherlock Holmes stories. In the case of Hubbard, Science Fiction was all the rage in post WWII. Add in Roswell, alien sightings, UFOs, etc.

Ultimately, Jimmy saying that his use of Talismans and Magick "worked" for him isn't any different from Tom Cruise crediting his success as an actor to Scientology, or Tim Tebow or Lionel Messi doing their gestures and thanking their version of "God" when they score for their sports teams.

And yet, all of these successful, talented people who keep attributing their success to their version of God or their spirituality never seem to notice that there is usually someone just as successful as they are, who is usually thanking a completely different God. Hmmmm.....

So Jimmy put silly symbols from the zodiac and random books on his pants and his amp and swore that they were the source of his great power. I wonder why then they didn't help the band get good reviews in the press? Was there a rule in the Crowley literature that said "The user who puts this symbol on their album cover will get great sales, amass vast wealth, and will be adored by millions. But as far as favorable press coverage goes...sorry." or was it more like "Do what thou wilt...or whom thou wilt...including 13 year olds".

Edited by cookieshoes

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I read Diary Of A Drug Fiend, good book and started to read his Autohagiography, but never finished.

I take it that's "Confessions", a tough read indeed at 960 pages. Funnily enough my wife has a copy of that due to arrive in the post tomorrow to replace the one somebody stole years ago..

Edited by JTM

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