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Everybody needs the light

Why didn´t they play "Achilles" during the O2 gig?

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Achilles has been my favorite since i could walk for sure.

I dont think they could have pulled this off on the 02 night..imo.

I saw Page/Plant may 25th 1995, when i was 9 years old, they had played achilles twice a few months before like steve has posted, and it just doesnt sound right, doesnt flow right without bonham.

You are right.But than I wonder why they did not pick a drummer that sounded like Bonzo?

I heard drummers that would have fitted much better even in the area where Robert and John where living.

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I like honesty and I think it is fun to hear what one person prefers to the next-God made us all different and unique. If we all agreed or liked exactly the same things- the world would be rather boring. I also would have liked them to have performed Ten Years Gone or the Rain Song but I think that Page/Plant played What is and What should Never be a tad too much. * Missy put down the broom down* :P

ALS is a favor of a majority of fans and Jimmys masterpiece.So no excuses for not playing it just explainations.

I ´ve heard "The Rain song" live during diffrent gigs.I was never too pleased.

Well, I guess it is because i like this number but was never a hughe fan of it.

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Ive heard Plant didnt want to do borderline heavy metal (immigrant, achilles)

Any truth on this, steve?

Maybe at this time.

Before his first solo album he told a friend of mine that he personaly preferres stuff like " fool in the rain".

But don´t forget that this was long ago and a diffrent time (he cutted his hair to look like a popsinger also).

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You are right.But than I wonder why they did not pick a drummer that sounded like Bonzo?

I heard drummers that would have fitted much better even in the area where Robert and John where living.

Michael Lee was in Robert's band and, as SAJ said earlier, Jimmy was basically asked to join Robert's band for the Unplugged show - which became the Page/Plant project. So, that is why Lee and Charlie Jones were in the band and not other musicians.

Peace.

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OK they could not play everything but I guess everybody would agree that ALS is much better than "For your life".

First off, I wasn't there.

That being said...

Is ALS better than For Your Life?

Sure.

Would I have rather heard it than FYL?

Between just those 2, probably.

But instead of bumping For Your Life, which is an incredibly awesome tune even before you consider it's historical status of having never been previously performed, here are a few that I would definitely have sacrificed in order to hear Achilles' Last Stand way before I considered dropping For Your Life:

Good Times, Bad Times

Ramble On

The Song Remains The Same

Rock And Roll

Not that I don't like any of those songs, but they all are way more familiar, and especially in the case of TSRTS and Rock and Roll, have been played live tons.

In fact, given the choice, I would even have forfeited ALL 4 of those songs in order to add ALS and keep For Your Life in the setlist.

But that's just me.

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Michael Lee was in Robert's band and, as SAJ said earlier, Jimmy was basically asked to join Robert's band for the Unplugged show - which became the Page/Plant project. So, that is why Lee and Charlie Jones were in the band and not other musicians.

Peace.

Who knows why they choosed these or other musicians ?All that I know is that there are other musicians around .

JPJ said he had to fight to get onstage with them during the live aid gig ! Collins (though being a geat drummer

in the beginning with Genesis) could not reach Bonzos power -not even with the support of a second drummer as far as I remember.

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First off, I wasn't there.

That being said...

Is ALS better than For Your Life?

Sure.

Would I have rather heard it than FYL?

Between just those 2, probably.

But instead of bumping For Your Life, which is an incredibly awesome tune even before you consider it's historical status of having never been previously performed, here are a few that I would definitely have sacrificed in order to hear Achilles' Last Stand way before I considered dropping For Your Life:

Good Times, Bad Times

Ramble On

The Song Remains The Same

Rock And Roll

Not that I don't like any of those songs, but they all are way more familiar, and especially in the case of TSRTS and Rock and Roll, have been played live tons.

In fact, given the choice, I would even have forfeited ALL 4 of those songs in order to add ALS and keep For Your Life in the setlist.

But that's just me.

Hard to tell what they should have dropped.I missed the first 2 mentioned songs.But the start of this topic was not what they should have dropped but

why they did not play ALS.

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Hard to tell what they should have dropped.I missed the first 2 mentioned songs.But the start of this topic was not what they should have dropped but

why they did not play ALS.

I was merely replying to your comment that ALS is better than For Your Life, which is basically questioning the inclusion of FYL instead of ALS.

To begin with, I think it's flawed reasoning to suggest ALS was left out in favor of ANY particular song in general, much less FYL in particular.

That being said, I was simply suggesting songs that I felt were more deserving of having their inclusion challenged, as you did with For Your Life.

I think For Your Life is better, and would much rather hear it live, than any of the songs I mentioned.

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I was merely replying to your comment that ALS is better than For Your Life, which is basically questioning the inclusion of FYL instead of ALS.

To begin with, I think it's flawed reasoning to suggest ALS was left out in favor of ANY particular song in general, much less FYL in particular.

That being said, I was simply suggesting songs that I felt were more deserving of having their inclusion challenged, as you did with For Your Life.

I think For Your Life is better, and would much rather hear it live, than any of the songs I mentioned.

I can´t agree with you about your list and to bring this to an end I was astonished and very pleases to hear FYL live at the 02.

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Why didn´t they play "Achilles" during the O2 gig?

I'd say because there is too much room for error during that song. There are a lot of parts to remember and its quite long,

plus the drums are very difficult and Jason may not have been able to pull it off properly.

I think it was a wise choice not play ALS (as much as I love it), I also think they shouldn't have played D&C for the same reason.

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Why didn´t they play "Achilles" during the O2 gig?

I'd say because there is too much room for error during that song. There are a lot of parts to remember and its quite long,

plus the drums are very difficult and Jason may not have been able to pull it off properly.

I think it was a wise choice not play ALS (as much as I love it), I also think they shouldn't have played D&C for the same reason.

Very intresting points.Yes they had some problems with playing D&C.Still think this is a number as ALS they just got to play.

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Ive heard Plant didnt want to do borderline heavy metal (immigrant, achilles)

Any truth on this, steve?

That's what Mick Wall claims in his book 'When Giants Walked the Earth: A Biography of Led Zeppelin'

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Nice to see so many other people that share my opinion that Achilles was their best song.

My feeling on this is that although it was one of the highlights of Knebworth, for me, they never quite nailed it live, even with Bonzo behind the kit...maybe just to complicated for just one guitarist (even Jimmy!)

What with Stairway and Kashmir, maybe three 10 minute songs was considered a bit too much?

Sure, no problem at all 25 years earlier, but remember, they are not in their first flush of youth anymore...

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I wish the solo in Stairway was longer.

It kind of sounds like Jimmy was about to go off into a big improv solo (ala '73,'75,'77 etc.) but then he decided against it at the last second.

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I agree with Steve in the fact that John Bonham is/was sorely missed and he is the only one who could pull off that song live! What a great song it is!

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It kind of sounds like Jimmy was about to go off into a big improv solo (ala '73,'75,'77 etc.) but then he decided against it at the last second.

That would have been bomb! I did read in a Guitar World that he wanted to play all solos note-for-note to prove to people that he could actually do it.

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Actually, if you've noticed, Achilles Last Stand is an expcetionally hard song to perform. It's one of my top 3 of course.

Edited by Taro

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musically I don't find it overly difficult... what I think is nigh impossible is navigating a live performance of ALS beyond the reach of critics and comparisons to most likely THE singular best example of a live performance captured on a recording. The take LZ used for ALS on Presence is near flawless not just musically, rather in capturing a sound and moment of LZ at their best. It came across so many times in concert- even in less than ideal audience recordings. It's nonsense- any suggestion of Plant not being able to hang- we have all heard him recently and he can hang when he wants to and particularly when he is motivated.

Plant's command of phrase and control of delivery is still almost inhuman. We saw him get gassed at the O2 a few times and handle himself just fine. ALS was not on the list- best guess- because of its length.

I am still perplexed that they did not do another encore after the encore of WLL and RR. Thought for sure we would hear Heartbreaker and leave it at that- then drop the mic on the floor.

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i think they picked for your life instead of it to play out of presence, an easier tune to play and sing, in order not to restrain Mr.plant's fine, vocal chords. and it's just as good as ALS, i just don't know when will this song get the bloody appreciation if Fu**ing deserves.

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figure they wanted to represent Presence and while they already had NBFBM, they wanted to maybe throw in another and in the spirit of moving forward as a "band" they did For Your Life for the first time as opposed to Achilles. Plus, we all know that Robert basically vetoed the "heavy metal" songs so there was never a chance that stuff like Immigrant Song or Communication Breakdown would get played. I feel like Achilles gets lumped into that category and yeah they could have done awesome stuff with it, but alas Robert probably was the one pushing for it not getting played.

Jimmy Page we all know for a fact thinks its Zeppelin's best song and I guarantee wanted to get at least one last go-round with this classic barnburner. No way it's a length thing, zeppelin could have played for as long as they wanted that night, could have started earlier if they wanted to go longer as the night was all about them.

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It is a shame they did not play ALS, but it is also a shame they failed to play anything off of ITTOD. What would have been incredible is if they finished FIRE from the ITTOD outtakes and included that. Talk about epic and memorable! HUZZA!!!

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I thought everybody knew 'why'....but...why???

A better question would be why they dropped it from two 1980 shows, including the very last ever Led Zeppelin performance.

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