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guitarglenn

WORST SOUND AT A GIG EVER !

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Clearly you've never been to the San Diego Sports Arena (the location of the Black Sabbath concert in Almost Famous)...you haven't truly experienced what horrible depths sound can descend to until you've been there.

Back to the Zep show, well, if they tried out six different PA's before they settled on one, I say they did the best they could and what else could they have done? Shit happens. It's not like they were sloppy and screwed it up or something.

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All I gotta say is ...........shhhhhhhhhhhhh hush your negtive criticle over analyzing mouth please ....clearly from the clips it tells a different story :D

I AGREE WITH ^^^^^^^!

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Eyes are 20/20 you dolt. Now we know how much credibility to give the rest of what you say. Ears go into hundreth of Decible. For instance I hear to the 500th Decible, very rare but it enables me to here bullshit from a mile away.

Feedback is a nessassary part of your sound, it has to be controled but sometimes even a cell phone can fuck with it. But you can also work it into your sound as they seem to have done (as always) with the limited sound I've heard so far.

You are the dolt, read a book on sound and hearing, you may learn something.

The human ear is can hear from 20 to 20,000htz, (you can probably only do 200 to 10,000-go for a hearing test, try it) that's what I meant by 20-20, shit for brains, insult me and back at you, everytime.

You obviously did not understand my point on sub-bass etc.

Yeah I can swear to...fuck...makes me really cool

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I was at the show and I thought the sound was very poor for the first couple of numbers but after that up in block m the sound was great

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Have you ever paid attention to the RIO ROCK movies on youtube where plant sings rock'nroll and the song from the PHYSICALL GRAFITY ALBUM?

Im not even sure what this thread is about but this made me laugh...

"The song" from the PG album....fantastic. Ok i'll pick one...er....."Custard pie"?

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Im not even sure what this thread is about but this made me laugh...

"The song" from the PG album....fantastic. Ok i'll pick one...er....."Custard pie"?

No need to be sarcastic!! :angry:

the song I was refering to is BLack country woman

Pay attention, instead of being so unpleasant, to the feedbacks and to the look of robert...

Don't forget to look at the loudspeakers which are on stage!!

They are the only cause of the feedbacks...

Artur

Black country woman and the feedbacks

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Worst gig ever??????????????? try listening to Lamb of God supporting Heaven and Hell at Plymouth Pavilions :( sounded like farting cones to me!!!!!!!!!!

I totally enjoyed the gig on monday, the sound quality?? better than sound gigs for me I heard every song and it sounded brilliant, the odd bit of feedback but hey thats rock n roll...........

Av fun

Andy

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No need to be sarcastic!! :angry:

the song I was refering to is BLack country woman

Pay attention, instead of being so unpleasant, to the feedbacks and to the look of robert...

Don't forget to look at the loudspeakers which are on stage!!

They are the only cause of the feedbacks...

Artur

Black country woman and the feedbacks

I listen to that you tube clip, I must be tone deaf, cause I didn't hear anything like feedback???

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I listen to that you tube clip, I must be tone deaf, cause I didn't hear anything like feedback???

All right, listen carefuly at the given times ok?

Here we go...

The first one occurs at 00.50

the second one at 00.54 00.55 the louder one being at 00.56

another one at 01.10 - 01.11

another one at 01.26 - 01.27

the last one which goes on the nerves of robert is actually at 01.38 - 01.39

Look the reaction of robert at 01.40 he looks down to the loudspeaker which is not so far away from him, you could hear him sayin, what's the fuck goin' on down there...just look at his eyes, he get really worried if not pissed of...

It's funny because this reaction occurs while he's singing hey hey babe what's wrong with you....

:D :D :D

Then immedialtly after that last fucking feedback, robert takes his microphone and leaves the place crouded by loudspeakers...

Then no feedbacks...until 02.16 which is a very small one...you noticed that robert got back in the same place as where he was when he began to sing the song...look at the movement of the camera carefully...^^

at 02.21 you can see two big loudspeakers in the back of robert...Hay, a propos, how do you call those loudspeakers in english? in french we call them "retours"...

at 02.34 you can clearly see how the loudspeakers are present on the stage...in fact two loudspeakers for robert, and then one per instrument, more or less...

at 03.01 you can clearly see thath even the drummer has its own loudspeaker on both sides of his drum kit...

Until the end ogf the song, NO FEEDBACK...!!!

That's what i'm sayin from the start...FEEDBACK are created because of a too high volume given to the loudspears which helps each musician, and the singer, to actually hear what the other members of the group are playin...

Otherwhise, they could not play in good conditions together...

And I know what i'm talkin about...^^

Artur

PS for those who do not understand what we are talkin about go here for the video

My dear feedback how are you doin?!!

PS2: Only one feedback can cause iremediable troubles to the ears...

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All right, listen carefuly at the given times ok?

Here we go...

The first one occurs at 00.50

the second one at 00.54 00.55 the louder one being at 00.56

another one at 01.10 - 01.11

another one at 01.26 - 01.27

the last one which goes on the nerves of robert is actually at 01.38 - 01.39

Look the reaction of robert at 01.40 he looks down to the loudspeaker which is not so far away from him, you could hear him sayin, what's the fuck goin' on down there...just look at his eyes, he get really worried if not pissed of...

It's funny because this reaction occurs while he's singing hey hey babe what's wrong with you....

:D :D :D

Then immedialtly after that last fucking feedback, robert takes his microphone and leaves the place crouded by loudspeakers...

Then no feedbacks...until 02.16 which is a very small one...you noticed that robert got back in the same place as where he was when he began to sing the song...look at the movement of the camera carefully...^^

at 02.21 you can see two big loudspeakers in the back of robert...Hay, a propos, how do you call those loudspeakers in english? in french we call them "retours"...

at 02.34 you can clearly see how the loudspeakers are present on the stage...in fact two loudspeakers for robert, and then one per instrument, more or less...

at 03.01 you can clearly see thath even the drummer has its own loudspeaker on both sides of his drum kit...

Until the end ogf the song, NO FEEDBACK...!!!

That's what i'm sayin from the start...FEEDBACK are created because of a too high volume given to the loudspears which helps each musician, and the singer, to actually hear what the other members of the group are playin...

Otherwhise, they could not play in good conditions together...

And I know what i'm talkin about...^^

Artur

PS for those who do not understand what we are talkin about go here for the video

My dear feedback how are you doin?!!

PS2: Only one feedback can cause iremediable troubles to the ears...

wow man....you're a nit-picker!! :D

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wow man....you're a nit-picker!! :D

You're maybe right, don't know, anyway SOUND is my "passion"....

So I know what i'm talkin about...

Been interested in it for no more than 20 years...^^

Love this video anyway, that's what a rock concert should ALWAYS sound like!!!!!!!!!!

B) B) B) B)

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You're maybe right, don't know, anyway SOUND is my "passion"....

So I know what i'm talkin about...

Been interested in it for no more than 20 years...^^

Love this video anyway, that's what a rock concert should ALWAYS sound like!!!!!!!!!!

B) B) B) B)

just messin' with ya.

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The O2 is notorious for troublesome sound. Furthermore, it doesn't matter how many PAs you audition, 18,000 bodies change everything when you pack them into the room. Then you have to factor in the number of acts. No matter how well you soundcheck, when you get multiple groups playing, levels get adjusted on the fly, then when the main act comes up, so many dynamics have changed. Personally, I wasn't at the show, but I watched a few songs on YouTube and it sounded great for an arena IMO.

Very true I was told the O2 was not the best place for great sound I too watched Zep on youtube.

I can only say god things about them..

Edited by zeppelin29

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Since I was the one who started this debate (debate=hurling insults and abuse by some members!!) I would like to finish it with this statement.

My only intention from the beggining was for the 'live audience' sound of Led Zeppelin to be the best possible, and to bring to the attention of Led Zeppelin fans, and the band themselves, (if they want to listen) how poor the sound quality/mix actually was.

Nothing would have pleased me more than to return from the gig happy. I would have been the first to tell everyone how great the band played (which they did) and what a fantastic sound that they had (which they didn't). I went to see Rush at Wembley Arena a few weeks ago and the sound was great, my ears are not at fault. Maybe many of you got caught up in the occasion (which I can understand) and were not really listening to the quality of the sound. It may not have mattered to you, but it did to me.

I did find it odd, to say the least, that some members thought that I was trying to 'put down' Led Zep, when if fact I was trying to do the opposite, hopefully (if anyone listens!!) the sound problems that they had will never happen again.

PEOPLE CAN BE SO STRANGE !!!!

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B )

HERE IS A POST FROM ANOTHER WHO AGREED WITH ME....THANX

guitarglenn, I couldn't agree with you more, when you say most people think you're an idiot just remember who those most people are !!!

They are just like the drunken head bangers that were for the most part at the gig, the guys for instance that think they are drummers and wave their arms about to the music....you must have seen it the airhead guitarists and all that crap.

How many of them could even tune a guitar let alone play it. Most of them think sub bass is something you knock your brains out with in a car driving through the town at night. They do not

know what they are talking about ...where as you do!!!!

Please pass my comments on to your blog by all means.

STEVE THE MAN....

hey guitarglenn,just listened to a tape of the show on radio , you are absolutely correct,the sound was just boomy with poor definition,i have to agree with you the sound techs sucked,the run down as i heard it on the radio is vocals great, drums great, guitar thin & scratchy ,keyboards thin & scratchy, bass was undefinable ,and thats not good enough for the best live band of all time , have to admit the change in keys of some of the songs did sound strange and pageys lead lines sounded uneasy in those tunings? . if thats the recorded sound there will be no dvd, only bootlegs .

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B )

hey guitarglenn,just listened to a tape of the show on radio , you are absolutely correct,the sound was just boomy with poor definition,i have to agree with you the sound techs sucked,the run down as i heard it on the radio is vocals great, drums great, guitar thin & scratchy ,keyboards thin & scratchy, bass was undefinable ,and thats not good enough for the best live band of all time , have to admit the change in keys of some of the songs did sound strange and pageys lead lines sounded uneasy in those tunings? . if thats the recorded sound there will be no dvd, only bootlegs .

Could we now on which type of loudspeakers did you hear that ttape on the radio?....

Probably not High Fidelity loudspeakers

Am I wrong?...

Give the reference of your stuff i'm interested!

See ya

Artur

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Sound

1. The f.o.h.sound engineer and big (literally) man was Mick Hughes. He has done sound at every Metallica gig since they started.

2. (Allegedly) he was the third man they asked to do the show. Allegedly Plant's normal sound engineer said he couldn't cope and another guy chickened out.

3. Mick went to the bog 5 minutes before LZ came on stage. Whilst he was out of earshot someone messed up the desk or someone broke somethin which is why we had white noise for 5 minutes before the start. When he came back no-one told him there had been a problem which is why the start of GTBT was so bad with feedback. He worked like a dog to get it sorted in some fashion.

It happens.

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I've kept my mouth shut thusfar (being a newbie), but I'd like to add a few observations as a sound engineer!

Th FOH desk was a Digico D5. It's a digital desk which stores all your settings.

The pink noise was before the support bands went on! This, however, doesn't excuse all the missing channels from the first few band, but the problem with digital boards is you can't actually see all input channels in one scene like you could with analogue boards, but have to go through several screens making correcting errors much more complicated and time consuming.

The feedback was from the wedges, not the PA, and was thus the responsibility of the monitor engineer, not the FOH engineer. This happens when an engineer is asked to defy the laws of physics by making the monitors louder or adding unstable frequencies...singers ALWAYS want louder and more top! Especially when they're a bit nervous :) so not necessarily his fault!

The speaker system was the EV line array (I think! I was a bit far away!) and does tend slightly towards the brittle at high SPLs in my experience. I also think there wasn't enough of it! Hence BM running into headroom problems. It's not an easy room to do and the acoustics change dramatically when the treble absorbers (audience) arrive. Having said that, there certainly wasn't excessive bottom end where we were...in fact I would have said exactly the opposite. Zeppelin ALWAYS tended to soundcheck with the first 2 songs! Now I know there was a rehearsal the day before, but that's really not the same thing a full soundcheck. Add into this that there were bound to be huge amounts of nerves floating about on BOTH sides of the FOH board, and the psychology of letting the band do their thing and I think the situation for the start of the show becomes clearer. I'm not saying it was the best sound I'd ever heard, but it certainly wasn't the worst by a very long shot! ....... and the shortcoming were surely totally swept away by the fact that LZ were on stage , LIVE in front of us, giving us their all, and I for one, thought I'd never see that again :)

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Oh, so I am a geek now am I, funny really, how people respond when you criticise something they love. If Jimmy, or any other band member could have sood and listened at the sound desk, they would not have been impressed. That is my final word on the subject.

How old are you people on here, 3 4 5 year olds?

If you want to throw childish insults and verbal abuse around become an member of parliment.

I was there, very high up, and it sounded great after about half way through 'Ramble On'. So what if there were a few moments where the sound guys didn't get it perfect? For me, it takes nothing away from the experience.

I only wish there were less people like you at the gig and more who were just glad to be there and share in the experience. I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

I hope you stick to your word and let that be your final word, geek or not.

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I've kept my mouth shut thusfar (being a newbie), but I'd like to add a few observations as a sound engineer!

Th FOH desk was a Digico D5. It's a digital desk which stores all your settings.

The pink noise was before the support bands went on! This, however, doesn't excuse all the missing channels from the first few band, but the problem with digital boards is you can't actually see all input channels in one scene like you could with analogue boards, but have to go through several screens making correcting errors much more complicated and time consuming.

The feedback was from the wedges, not the PA, and was thus the responsibility of the monitor engineer, not the FOH engineer. This happens when an engineer is asked to defy the laws of physics by making the monitors louder or adding unstable frequencies...singers ALWAYS want louder and more top! Especially when they're a bit nervous :) so not necessarily his fault!

The speaker system was the EV line array (I think! I was a bit far away!) and does tend slightly towards the brittle at high SPLs in my experience. I also think there wasn't enough of it! Hence BM running into headroom problems. It's not an easy room to do and the acoustics change dramatically when the treble absorbers (audience) arrive. Having said that, there certainly wasn't excessive bottom end where we were...in fact I would have said exactly the opposite. Zeppelin ALWAYS tended to soundcheck with the first 2 songs! Now I know there was a rehearsal the day before, but that's really not the same thing a full soundcheck. Add into this that there were bound to be huge amounts of nerves floating about on BOTH sides of the FOH board, and the psychology of letting the band do their thing and I think the situation for the start of the show becomes clearer. I'm not saying it was the best sound I'd ever heard, but it certainly wasn't the worst by a very long shot! ....... and the shortcoming were surely totally swept away by the fact that LZ were on stage , LIVE in front of us, giving us their all, and I for one, thought I'd never see that again :)

I stand corrected - partially.

I seem to remember that the noise -pink, white or whatever its called - was just before LZ came on but as you say the "support" bands sounded bad. I felt very sorry for Foreigner. However something did go amiss in the 5 minutes before LZ came on and what I said was what I was told from a reliable source. The foh engineer is very experienced and would not have cocked up.

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I've kept my mouth shut thusfar (being a newbie), but I'd like to add a few observations as a sound engineer!

Th FOH desk was a Digico D5. It's a digital desk which stores all your settings.

The pink noise was before the support bands went on! This, however, doesn't excuse all the missing channels from the first few band, but the problem with digital boards is you can't actually see all input channels in one scene like you could with analogue boards, but have to go through several screens making correcting errors much more complicated and time consuming.

The feedback was from the wedges, not the PA, and was thus the responsibility of the monitor engineer, not the FOH engineer. This happens when an engineer is asked to defy the laws of physics by making the monitors louder or adding unstable frequencies...singers ALWAYS want louder and more top! Especially when they're a bit nervous :) so not necessarily his fault!

The speaker system was the EV line array (I think! I was a bit far away!) and does tend slightly towards the brittle at high SPLs in my experience. I also think there wasn't enough of it! Hence BM running into headroom problems. It's not an easy room to do and the acoustics change dramatically when the treble absorbers (audience) arrive. Having said that, there certainly wasn't excessive bottom end where we were...in fact I would have said exactly the opposite. Zeppelin ALWAYS tended to soundcheck with the first 2 songs! Now I know there was a rehearsal the day before, but that's really not the same thing a full soundcheck. Add into this that there were bound to be huge amounts of nerves floating about on BOTH sides of the FOH board, and the psychology of letting the band do their thing and I think the situation for the start of the show becomes clearer. I'm not saying it was the best sound I'd ever heard, but it certainly wasn't the worst by a very long shot! ....... and the shortcoming were surely totally swept away by the fact that LZ were on stage , LIVE in front of us, giving us their all, and I for one, thought I'd never see that again :)

AAAAAH!!! In my arms!! BROTHER!!!

So I was right, I was actually searching the right word for those loudspeakers...^^ Wedges of course!!! Here is the only cause of the feedback. ONCE AND FOR ALL ROBERT PLANT'S VOICE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!

A question, why Zep doesn't use EAR MONITORS? Is it because they LOVE loud sound?

Thanks A LOT FOR YOUR ANSWER, people down here seems not to listen to what others are sayin but rather keep goin and sayin their own things...too bad!!

Artur

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an awful lot of artists are resistant to using in-ears. They DO take a bit of getting used to for a start and have a tendancy to cut out the raw emotion from a gig as the sound can be very "clinical"

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an awful lot of artists are resistant to using in-ears. They DO take a bit of getting used to for a start and have a tendancy to cut out the raw emotion from a gig as the sound can be very "clinical"

That's what I thought...

Thanks a lot again for those precious details!!

Artur

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