Osama bin Laden DEAD

[Silver Rider]

I dont understand. If they kill, they are terrorists, if some of USA kills, its a hero.

Osama was considered to be one of the masterminds responsible for the conspiracy to attack thousands of innocent people in the United States in New York that occurred on September 11, and he was also viewed as a continuing danger. The attempt to take Osama into custody was seen as a reasonable defense of others, similar to the right of self-defense. The U.S. Navy SEALs did not have strict orders to kill Osama, and if he had not resisted and fought, he might still be alive today. They had permission to kill him if he fought and presented a danger, which he did, but they were not obligated to kill him. They could have simply placed him in custody if he had not attacked them when they tried to arrest him.

The U.S.A. protects its citizens, especially from indiscriminate targeting by others. We are not here for the target practice of other countries, and this was our way of letting them know that. Just don't invade our country and attack our citizens, and our Navy SEALs will leave you in peace to pursue life, liberty and happiness.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Silver Rider

[tom kid]

This image is quite apt I think:

As I said earlier, the killing of Osama is a symbolic victory and nothing else. if you really believe lzzoso that Iraq had Weapons of mass destruction (which by the way, your country has the most by far out of anyone and is the only country to have used atomic weapons in war) I don't really know what to say...

Three thousand people died in the 9/11 attacks, and my sympathies go out to those victims who lost their lives and the families who have to deal with such a massive tragedy. But is the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and Afgani's really justified by this? Iraq had no link to the 9/11 bombings at all, yet terrorism was used as the excuse to invade.

Edited May 3, 2011 by tom kid

[JohnnyBgoode]

This image is quite apt I think:

As I said earlier, the killing of Osama is a symbolic victory and nothing else. if you really believe lzzoso that Iraq had Weapons of mass destruction (which by the way, your country has the most by far out of anyone and is the only country to have used atomic weapons in war) I don't really know what to say...

Three thousand people died in the 9/11 attacks, and my sympathies go out to those victims who lost their lives and the families who have to deal with such a massive tragedy. But is the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and Afgani's really justified by this? Iraq had no link to the 9/11 bombings at all, yet terrorism was used as the excuse to invade.

Yes it seems the mission accomplished was quite a bit premature eh? Considering, you know, that we are still there. I'm sorry, but Republican or not, George Bush was a bloody mook.

[Silver Rider]

BTW, the reason his number two wasn't with him.

Could it be that he was the caller that tipped off the authorities of Laden's whereabouts?

Possibly. Maybe they watched the compound to see when the least number of people would be present. But they probably did not have very much time to act.

centurylink.net

WASHINGTON (AP) — When one of Osama bin Laden's most trusted aides picked up the phone last year, he unknowingly led U.S. pursuers to the doorstep of his boss, the world's most wanted terrorist.

That monitored phone call, recounted Monday by a U.S. official, ended a years-long search for bin Laden's personal courier, the key break in a worldwide manhunt. The courier, in turn, led U.S. intelligence to a walled compound in northeast Pakistan, where a team of Navy SEALs shot bin Laden to death.

[lzzoso]

This image is quite apt I think:

As I said earlier, the killing of Osama is a symbolic victory and nothing else. if you really believe lzzoso that Iraq had Weapons of mass destruction (which by the way, your country has the most by far out of anyone and is the only country to have used atomic weapons in war) I don't really know what to say...

Three thousand people died in the 9/11 attacks, and my sympathies go out to those victims who lost their lives and the families who have to deal with such a massive tragedy. But is the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and Afgani's really justified by this? Iraq had no link to the 9/11 bombings at all, yet terrorism was used as the excuse to invade.

I love a good debate. First off, when did I, lzzoso, say that Iraq had WMD's. I did not.

Second, I am very proud and grateful that my Country, the United States of America, has weapons of mass destruction and weapons of single destruction. All it took was a few American made bullets to kill the most hunted and wanted man ever in the history of the planet Earth. Shot in the head by a Brave and Dedicated American Special Forces soldier.

I see that you are an New Zealander. If I know this then you should obviously know that New Zealand is a Great and Important Ally of the United States. How would you feel if Osama bin Laden's Al-Queda network flew planes into the tallest buildings in Aukland,Christchurch or Wellington. Not to mention Canberra, Sydney, Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne, Newcastle and killed thousands of innocent New Zealander and Australian citizens? What if those planes killed Crocodile Dundee (Paul Hogan) or decimated the Foster's brewery? Would that change your way of thinking?

Lastly, I am a very avid reader and student of American History. The only reason why the U.S.A. dropped two "atomic" bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan was because Harry S. Truman felt it was the best way to end the war with Japan and save over 1,000,000 American lives. That was the estimate at the time of the casualty rate if the United States was to mount an invasion of Japan. 2 bombs dropped to save over 1 million American lives makes sense to me and many millions of Americans (and New Zealand/Australians). Remember, just like Al-Queda, Japan brought "their" wars to American soil and America responded as America does best. Need I remind anyone of what that is?

Edited May 3, 2011 by lzzoso

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

Don't you mean "Ding-dong! The witch is dead!"? Or is "the bastard" a Kiwi variation of the phrase?

Now that there has been confirmation of a DNA match, it looks like Osama bin Laden is not only merely dead, he's really most sincerely dead!

"DING-DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD!", indeed.

LOL! Well, I did think of the phrase "Ding-Dong The Witch Is Dead" and let's just say that I altered that phrase to my liking to suit such a momentous occassion!

[tom kid]

I love a good debate. First off, when did I, lzzoso, say that Iraq had WMD's. I did not.

Second, I am very proud and grateful that my Country, the United States of America, has weapons of mass destruction and weapons of single destruction. All it took was a few American made bullets to kill the most hunted and wanted man ever in the history of the planet Earth. Shot in the head by a Brave and Dedicated American Special Forces soldier.

I see that you are an Australian. If I know this then you should obviously know that Australia is a Great and Important Ally of the United States. How would you feel if Osama bin Laden's Al-Queda network flew planes into the tallest buildings in Canberra, Sydney, Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne, Newcastle and killed thousands of innocent Australian citizens? What if those planes killed Crocodile Dundee (Paul Hogan) or decimated the Foster's brewery? Would that change your way of thinking?

Lastly, I am a very avid reader and student of American History. The only reason why the U.S.A. dropped two "atomic" bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan was because Harry S. Truman felt it was the best way to end the war with Japan and save over 1,000,000 American lives. That was the estimate at the time of the casualty rate if the United States was to mount an invasion of Japan. 2 bombs dropped to save over 1 million American lives makes sense to me and many millions of Americans (Australians). Remember, just like Al-Queda, Japan brought "their" wars to American soil and America responded as America does best. Need I remind anyone of what that is?

Where did you get that I was from Australia? I'm pretty sure my location quite clearly says that I am from Auckland, NEW ZEALAND. Argh, really annoys me when people seem to think New Zealand is some how a part of Australia. Still, we have troops in the two conflicts I mentioned earlier. That isn't to say that I agree with those troops being there, but I'm not running the show so what can I do about it? You're right, it would change my way of thinking. I would be angry towards the people who did it, not the hundreds of thousands Iraqi and Afgani civilians who have died as a result of the conflict lead by the US and the UK.

I don't really think that the US would have suffered casualties of 1 million if they had invaded mainland Japan. Japan was totally and utterly destroyed militarily by June of 1945, there was almost nothing left of the navy and the air force was completely destroyed. Take some time and read this link: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

It's from an academic journal before you dismiss it.

I myself too enjoy a good debate. Hope this has caused no bad blood between us.

[Nutrocker]

I love a good debate. First off, when did I, lzzoso, say that Iraq had WMD's. I did not.

Second, I am very proud and grateful that my Country, the United States of America, has weapons of mass destruction and weapons of single destruction. All it took was a few American made bullets to kill the most hunted and wanted man ever in the history of the planet Earth. Shot in the head by a Brave and Dedicated American Special Forces soldier.

I see that you are an New Zealander. If I know this then you should obviously know that New Zealand is a Great and Important Ally of the United States. How would you feel if Osama bin Laden's Al-Queda network flew planes into the tallest buildings in Aukland,Christchurch or Wellington. Not to mention Canberra, Sydney, Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne, Newcastle and killed thousands of innocent New Zealander and Australian citizens? What if those planes killed Crocodile Dundee (Paul Hogan) or decimated the Foster's brewery? Would that change your way of thinking?

Lastly, I am a very avid reader and student of American History. The only reason why the U.S.A. dropped two "atomic" bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan was because Harry S. Truman felt it was the best way to end the war with Japan and save over 1,000,000 American lives. That was the estimate at the time of the casualty rate if the United States was to mount an invasion of Japan. 2 bombs dropped to save over 1 million American lives makes sense to me and many millions of Americans (and New Zealand/Australians). Remember, just like Al-Queda, Japan brought "their" wars to American soil and America responded as America does best. Need I remind anyone of what that is?

...I'm sure ol' Harry S's rationale was a great comfort to widow of the pilot of the Enola Gay, who ultimately topped himself because of the guilt he felt after seeing the destruction that first primitive A bomb caused.

Look, I'm a Canadian- probably one of the last places in the Western world left pretty much untouched by terrorists (the Quebec separatists back in the seventies notwithstanding). For example, you mentioned New Zealand and Austrailia...remember the Bali bombings? Those attacks were directed at Aussie/NZ tourists. No, Al Qaeda didn't bomb Sydney or Christchurch, but they might as well have. I'm surprised Canada has not been hit yet. I'm betting if we'd sided with Bush and Blair over Iraq back in '03 we'd have been attacked. Just about everyone who sided with those two lunatics got bombed at one point or another (Bali, London, Madrid...my wife and I were in London on 7/7 -and 7/16 for that matter...not too fun an experience, lemme tell ya!)

Don't get me wrong; I'm glad they got the bastard on Sunday. Bin Laden's demise was long overdue. The whole scenario played out like something from a Tom Clancy novel. I for one would not want to fuck with any nation's Special Forces, but especially the SEALS! Yet, right now, two things make me nervous as hell:

1. Some of the almost psychotic joy some folks in the US are having tapdancing on OBL's grave, as it were. Yes, the USA finally got it's closure and justice, but I remember the righteous indignation on 9/11 when CNN was showing footage of people in the Middle East celebrating the attacks. I am sure folks throughout the Middle East are feeling that same sort of indignation right now seeing footage of cheering Americans. Turnabout is fair play, I suppose...

2. This feeling of relief that "Now that we've got him, the War On Terror is over..." Not by a long shot, and I'd reckon that we are going to see an attack somewhere that'll make 9/11 seem like nothing. We've given Bin Laden just what he wanted: martyrdom. There will undoubtedly be many of his followers either ready to take his place or at the very least getting revenge. IMO the world did not become a safer place on May 1...it got a lot more fucking dangerous.

And yeah, there is nothing like a good debate...at least we're keeping it civil! Hell, it's fucking easy to blather off on an internet forum...

Edited May 3, 2011 by Nutrocker

[lzzoso]

Where did you get that I was from Australia? I'm pretty sure my location quite clearly says that I am from Auckland, NEW ZEALAND. Argh, really annoys me when people seem to think New Zealand is some how a part of Australia. Still, we have troops in the two conflicts I mentioned earlier. That isn't to say that I agree with those troops being there, but I'm not running the show so what can I do about it? You're right, it would change my way of thinking. I would be angry towards the people who did it, not the hundreds of thousands Iraqi and Afgani civilians who have died as a result of the conflict lead by the US and the UK.

I don't really think that the US would have suffered casualties of 1 million if they had invaded mainland Japan. Japan was totally and utterly destroyed militarily by June of 1945, there was almost nothing left of the navy and the air force was completely destroyed. Take some time and read this link: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html

It's from an academic journal before you dismiss it.

I myself too enjoy a good debate. Hope this has caused no bad blood between us.

Hey! I will and proudly admit where I am wrong or might be wrong. For some strange reason I thought that your location was somewhere in Australia. I fully realize that New Zealand and Australia are two different countries. Am I wrong again or are both Countries geographically and (somewhat) historically linked together? I know I could easily search this on google, however, I try to rely on my somewhat intellectual stimuli (sometimes hard to do when I consume at least an 18 pack of American-brewed Budweiser beer).

[tom kid]

Hey! I will and proudly admit where I am wrong or might be wrong. For some strange reason I thought that your location was somewhere in Australia. I fully realize that New Zealand and Australia are two different countries. Am I wrong again or are both Countries geographically and (somewhat) historically linked together? I know I could easily search this on google, however, I try to rely on my somewhat intellectual stimuli (sometimes hard to do when I consume at least an 18 pack of American-brewed Budweiser beer).

Australia is only a 2 hour or so flight from NZ, a bit longer depending on which part you're flying too. Yes, the two countries are historically linked (check out the history of the ANZAC if you're interested, it's a good example of the link between Australia and NZ).

[lzzoso]

...I'm sure ol' Harry S's rationale was a great comfort to widow of the pilot of the Enola Gay, who ultimately topped himself because of the guilt he felt after seeing the destruction that first primitive A bomb caused.

Look, I'm a Canadian- probably one of the last places in the Western world left pretty much untouched by terrorists (the Quebec separatists back in the seventies notwithstanding). For example, you mentioned New Zealand and Austrailia...remember the Bali bombings? Those attacks were directed at Aussie/NZ tourists. No, Al Qaeda didn't bomb Sydney or Christchurch, but they might as well have. I'm surprised Canada has not been hit yet. I'm betting if we'd sided with Bush and Blair over Iraq back in '03 we'd have been attacked. Just about everyone who sided with those two lunatics got bombed at one point or another (Bali, London, Madrid...my wife and I were in London on 7/7 -and 7/16 for that matter...not too fun an experience, lemme tell ya!)

Don't get me wrong; I'm glad they got the bastard on Sunday. Bin Laden's demise was long overdue. The whole scenario played out like something from a Tom Clancy novel. I for one would not want to fuck with any nation's Special Forces, but especially the SEALS! Yet, right now, two things make me nervous as hell:

1. Some of the almost psychotic joy some folks in the US are having tapdancing on OBL's grave, as it were. Yes, the USA finally got it's closure and justice, but I remember the righteous indignation on 9/11 when CNN was showing footage of people in the Middle East celebrating the attacks. I am sure folks throughout the Middle East are feeling that same sort of indignation right now seeing footage of cheering Americans. Turnabout is fair play, I suppose...

2. This feeling of relief that "Now that we've got him, the War On Terror is over..." Not by a long shot, and I'd reckon that we are going to see an attack somewhere that'll make 9/11 seem like nothing. We've given Bin Laden just what he wanted: martyrdom. There will undoubtedly be many of his followers either ready to take his place or at the very least getting revenge. IMO the world did not become a safer place on May 1...it got a lot more fucking dangerous.

And yeah, there is nothing like a good debate...at least we're keeping it civil! Hell, it's fucking easy to blather off on an internet forum...

Let me say that You speak in very good terms. I agree with some of what you type. From what is being reported, the SEAlS actions were there to accomplish a mission and that mission was carried out with the minimum of flaws. No Americans wounded or casualties.

The killing of the World's most hunted and wanted man. Shot dead in the head by American Forces. I don't care what Country anyone is from, that alone should make a lot of people proud. Osama bin Laden would have not have given a second of his time to mourn the death of you or a family member or friend if he and his operatives had had a chance to kill You or Me or Anyone else. Remember, they are/were called terrorists for a reason.

I will admit that the "War on Terror" is not and will never be over in my Lifetime.

I live in Dallas, Texas but once lived in New Jersy over 25 years ago. I would have loved to have been in NYC on Sunday/Monday, May 1st, 2011. What is wrong with pure elation in celebrating the killing of the World's worst terrorist? Just as many "other" peoples were rejoicing in the mayhem and in the destruction on 9/11/2001, I would (and AM) rejoicing in the same way as "they" did. However, one terrorists death will never make up for the killing of almost 3,000 innocent civilians.

Edited May 3, 2011 by lzzoso

[tom kid]

I live in Dallas, Texas but once lived in New Jersy over 25 years ago. I would have loved to have been in NYC on Sunday/Monday, May 1st, 2011. What is wrong with pure elation in celebrating the killing of the World's worst terrorist? Just as many "other" peoples were rejoicing in the mayhem and in the destruction on 9/11/2001, I would (and AM) rejoicing in the same way as "they" did. However, one terrorists death will never make up for the killing of almost 3,000 innocent civilians.

I find that quite ironic considering you seem to have no problem with the amount of civilian deaths the US military has incurred in Iraq and Afghanistan, which I keep mentioning but you don't seem to acknowledge?

[lzzoso]

Australia is only a 2 hour or so flight from NZ, a bit longer depending on which part you're flying too. Yes, the two countries are historically linked (check out the history of the ANZAC if you're interested, it's a good example of the link between Australia and NZ).

Cool!!! I am an easy going Bloke. Like I said I do Love a good debate. Again, I realize I was wrong and thought you were an Aussie. My mistake. Can I ask You a very personal question? Do you consider Yourself to a friend of the United States? Just curious. I have never been to Wellington or Auckland, but I think You would enjoy Dallas, Texas and any other American city you could possibly visit.

[TypeO]

Look, I'm a Canadian- probably one of the last places in the Western world left pretty much untouched by terrorists (the Quebec separatists back in the seventies notwithstanding). For example, you mentioned New Zealand and Austrailia...remember the Bali bombings? Those attacks were directed at Aussie/NZ tourists. No, Al Qaeda didn't bomb Sydney or Christchurch, but they might as well have.

I'm surprised Canada has not been hit yet.

They're not gonna hit Canada, that's their gateway into the US.

[Magic Fills the Air]

The members here who support the 'love thy enemy' line of argument are standing on very thin ground in my view. Al-Qaeda is an ideology that seeks to take over the world by creating extreme Islamic states in all territoires, including the US, through violence. Do you really think we can fight this kind of movement with love and compassion? If you think we can, you might as well surrender right now and relinquish all the rights you currently hold.

Bin Laden deserved to die. I don't think I lack compassion for saying that.

[tom kid]

Cool!!! I am an easy going Bloke. Like I said I do Love a good debate. Again, I realize I was wrong and thought you were an Aussie. My mistake. Can I ask You a very personal question? Do you consider Yourself to a friend of the United States? Just curious. I have never been to Wellington or Auckland, but I think You would enjoy Dallas, Texas and any other American city you could possibly visit.

I want to visit the US one day for sure, the only problem is the lack of funds. I would love to visit New York, LA, Boston, San Francisco etc. That's actually a very hard question to answer. I wouldn't say that I agree with a lot of things that US governments have done, however I do enjoy a lot of American music, movies etc. What I don't tend to like about are things like the gun laws, in my opinion they are hugely archaic and need to be done away with. But thats a topic for a whole new thread...

[cate]

Has the back lash started already...5 men Held under Terrorism Act, after being Arrested close to Sellar field Nucular site in Cumbria.?

[Anjin-san]

Hi Magic,

The members here who support the 'love thy enemy' line of argument are standing on very thin ground in my view. Al-Qaeda is an ideology that seeks to take over the world by creating extreme Islamic states in all territoires, including the US, through violence. Do you really think we can fight this kind of movement with love and compassion? If you think we can, you might as well surrender right now and relinquish all the rights you currently hold.

Bin Laden deserved to die. I don't think I lack compassion for saying that.

Well said.

KB

[Electrophile]

The members here who support the 'love thy enemy' line of argument are standing on very thin ground in my view. Al-Qaeda is an ideology that seeks to take over the world by creating extreme Islamic states in all territoires, including the US, through violence. Do you really think we can fight this kind of movement with love and compassion? If you think we can, you might as well surrender right now and relinquish all the rights you currently hold.

Bin Laden deserved to die. I don't think I lack compassion for saying that.

I think you're doing a whole lot of misinterpreting here. A lot. There's a difference between saying "Don't you dare be happy Osama is dead, that's my buddy!" and saying "Temper your enthusiasm because you know there will be reprisals since he was effectively made a martyr." The latter is what I said, and what I think everyone else here has said. I'm glad he's dead, he should have been dead a decade ago, however I'm not running around waving a flag and shitting in red, white, and blue because I know that Al-Qaeda still exists, and Bin Laden's' death won't change that, and that our military forces still over there could see increased engagements because of this. I'm not going to show an overload of joy in a situation that will cause more American citizens to die. Leon Panetta, the head of the CIA, has already said that they fully expect Al-Qaeda to retaliate, our embassies around the world have stepped up security.....that's a sign that our government is aware that while it needed to happen, shit is going to happen in response.

No one is sad that Bin Laden is dead, except maybe his family, but they don't post here.

[Kiwi_Zep_Fan87]

The members here who support the 'love thy enemy' line of argument are standing on very thin ground in my view. Al-Qaeda is an ideology that seeks to take over the world by creating extreme Islamic states in all territoires, including the US, through violence. Do you really think we can fight this kind of movement with love and compassion? If you think we can, you might as well surrender right now and relinquish all the rights you currently hold.

Bin Laden deserved to die. I don't think I lack compassion for saying that.

Very nicely put!

[Anjin-san]

How about right above the quote from Dr. King where you typed the words "Numb nut". That might be a good place to start looking. Also, you are correct in that Dr. King didn't directly reference Bin Laden as there was no reason for him to have done so at the time he made that statement. However that doesn't negate the man's point, now does it?

While I fully believe Bin Laden deserved to take the eternal dirt nap, the fact that his death will no doubt cause reprisals against our military forces already in the area and potentially our embassies around the world, means I'm not exactly standing on the hood of a car screaming "AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!" while a Lee Greenwood song blares in the background.

Liz,go take a crap,...

I was talking to Knebby,....

[SteveAJones]

Very witty my dear, very witty indeed, but until I see the bullet ridden corpse I'll remain a sceptic if thats alright with you?

Liberals like Liz will then seek to prosecute those responsible for his death.

It's important to note the critical link to his couriers came during interrogations at Gitmo. Keep it open!

[SteveAJones]

I dont understand how people still thinking that it wasnt a plan of Bush to take oil from Irak.

Bush's primary objective in Iraq was regime change. Iraq never relinquished control of their oil fields.

[Magic Fills the Air]

I think you're doing a whole lot of misinterpreting here. A lot. There's a difference between saying "Don't you dare be happy Osama is dead, that's my buddy!" and saying "Temper your enthusiasm because you know there will be reprisals since he was effectively made a martyr." The latter is what I said, and what I think everyone else here has said. I'm glad he's dead, he should have been dead a decade ago, however I'm not running around waving a flag and shitting in red, white, and blue because I know that Al-Qaeda still exists, and Bin Laden's' death won't change that, and that our military forces still over there could see increased engagements because of this. I'm not going to show an overload of joy in a situation that will cause more American citizens to die. Leon Panetta, the head of the CIA, has already said that they fully expect Al-Qaeda to retaliate, our embassies around the world have stepped up security.....that's a sign that our government is aware that while it needed to happen, shit is going to happen in response.

No one is sad that Bin Laden is dead, except maybe his family, but they don't post here.

My comments weren't aimed at you at all. There's no misinterpreting (at least on my part) going on. What I was saying is that we can't fight terrorism with the 'love thy enemy' mentality that some members, not including yourself, are subscribing to on here. Believe me, there's no 'flag waving' going on here either. Bin Laden had to be taken down, but there will inevitably be retaliation. No one wins in a sitaution like this.

Edited May 3, 2011 by Magic Fills the Air

[SteveAJones]

.. "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

MLK never said what's in red.

The correct quote can be found through a Google search in King's book called "Strength to Love," which is a collection of his sermons.

The passage reads: "Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies hate, violence multiplies violence and toughness multiples toughness in a descending spiral of destruction."

Edited May 3, 2011 by SteveAJones