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Osama bin Laden DEAD


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My comments weren't aimed at you at all. There's no misinterpreting (at least on my part) going on. What I was saying is that we can't fight terrorism with the 'love thy enemy' mentality that some members, not including yourself, are subscribing to on here. Believe me, there's no 'flag waving' going on here either. Bin Laden had to be taken down, but there will inevitably be retaliation. No one wins in a sitaution like this.

Magic, I know that this is not a thread about WWII, but I can't help but post this quote by Sir Winston Churchill. Maybe, I'm crazy but I do feel this quote fits here, at least to a certain extent. The situations as far as WWII and "The War On Terror" are concerned, are totally different but I do feel that the same kind of spunk and determination is required to defeat this beast called "terrorism" as was required to defeat Hitler, the monster :

"We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and the oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender" ~ Sir Winston Chrchill

I don't know about others, but I sure do find this quote to be very inspiring! B) Just my two cents.

Bottom line : We need to keep on fighting and this major breakthrough (Bin Laden's death) is certainly a big boost, which signifies that America and the rest of the world can indeed win the war on terror and that victory ain't some sort of distant dream or fantasy!

Edited by Kiwi_Zep_Fan87
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OMG :rolleyes:

Sometimes it just makes sense to hate a murderer. I admit I had a tiny tiny bit of feeling unease at being happy for a death.

However, I also thought back to the execution of Ted Bundy. I had no remorse for that filthy pig....so why should I 'mourn' a terrorists death? Sorry no go.

I knew there would be people saying stupid crap about his death. Dumb asses.

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I awakened this morning to my daughter telling me the news. She's 14, and was just a baby on 9/11. She asked the quintessential question, "What does this mean?" I'm embarassed to tell you I struggled with the answer, but gave her the facts as I knew them, that he was the leader of Al-Queida, who masterminded the attacks of 9/11. We went off in our own directions for the day, but still that gnawing question remained. This article has brought me closer to the answer. Thank you for posting this, saj. I will print and post this in my kitchen, as a constant reminder of what it means. American pride. Damn right.

Clearly she is a critical thinker, for which you as the mother who raised her should be proud. If that article I posted from ten years ago brought you closer to the answer, I believe this article from today is the answer:

Al Qaeda is Over

By Fareed Zakaria, CNN

In the wake of Osama bin Laden's death, a number of people are saying that this does not mean that al Qaeda has been destroyed. Some argue that the organization may, in fact, be thriving. Front-page articles in both The New York Times and The Washington Post make this claim. Many officials from Obama downward are saying this.

I understand why officials have to say this. They want to be cautious. They don't want to overpromise.

But the truth is this is a huge, devastating blow to al Qaeda, which had already been crippled by the Arab Spring. It is not an exaggeration to say that this is the end of al Qaeda in any meaningful sense of the word.

Al Qaeda is not an organization that commands massive resources. It doesn't have a big army. It doesn't have vast reservoirs of funds that it can direct easily across the world.

Al Qaeda was an idea and an ideology, symbolized by an extremely charismatic figure in Osama bin Laden. Bin Laden was this Saudi prince-like figure who had gone into the mountains of Afghanistan forsaking the riches of a multibillion-dollar fortune, fought against the Soviets, demonstrated personal bravery and then crafted a seductive message about Islam and Islamic extremism as a path to destroy the corrupt regimes of the Middle East.

History teaches us that the loss of the charismatic leader - of the symbol - is extraordinarily damaging for the organization. It is very difficult to keep such an organization together, particularly in the absence of great power backers.

In the case of al Qaeda, this is a virtual organization held together by its message and the inspiration it provided. A large part of that inspiration was bin Laden. Ayman Zawahiri may have been the brains behind the outfit, but he did not excite people. When people volunteered for jihad, they were volunteering to be bin Laden's foot soldiers, not Ayman Zawahiri's or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's. The loss of bin Laden's personality is hugely important because it was so much part of al Qaeda's appeal.

In addition, we must remember that the death of bin Laden is not occurring in a vacuum. The Arab Awakening has already crippled the basic rationale of al Qaeda. Al Qaeda existed because bin Laden argued that the regimes of the Arab world were dictatorial and oppressive. He argued that the United States was supporting those regimes and, as a result, Muslims had to engage in terrorism against the United States and those regimes. He claimed that the only way to achieve change was through violence, terrorism and Islamic extremism.

In the past few months, we have seen democratic, peaceful, non-Islamic revolutions transform Egypt and Tunisia. We are seeing these forces changing almost every government in the Arab world. Al Qaeda is not in the picture. So when you combine the Arab Spring with bin Laden's death, you have a very powerful one-two punch to al Qaeda.

Certainly, there are groups of terrorists around the world, some of which now call themselves al Qaeda. These groups are loosely affiliated in some sense. But gangs of bad guys have always been around.

With the death of bin Laden, the central organizing ideology that presented an existential seduction to the Muslim world and an existential threat to the Western world is damaged beyond repair. We're left with free-lance terrorists who will, of course, be able to inflict some harm. But the Somali pirates are able to inflict harm on civilians, and that doesn't turn them into an existential threat to the Western world.

That existential threat is gone.

Edited by SteveAJones
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Liz,go take a crap,...

I was talking to Knebby,....

And the only words in my post were King's. If you can find me a more appropriate time to post that quote, I'd love to know it.

The rejoicing and flag-waving is sickening. It is only paving the way to the death of more, and more, and more.

And anyone who wants to spit back at me may like to remember that terrorism didn't begin with 9/11. Others in the world have suffered it for years.

I personally think the ones who think this is appropriate behaviour are the ones who are on thin ice.

Edited by Knebby
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On the shooting in the face subject...from a personal point of view, I would like to thank the SF officer who did what had to be done. Bin loadin was given a chance to surrender, and instead used a woman as a human shield. But hey, his face is missing now, so it's all copasetic.

As this was your second response to my post, I guess I should reply. My point, which I stand by, is that the writers I was referring to were gloating over the ugly death of another human being whom they regard as evil (and I agree with them about the "evil" part). Morally, that's pretty much identical to bin Laden. I'm not supporting either of them, and certainly not him.

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...I'm sure ol' Harry S's rationale was a great comfort to widow of the pilot of the Enola Gay, who ultimately topped himself because of the guilt he felt after seeing the destruction that first primitive A bomb caused.

If by "topped himself" you meant committed suicide, that's incorrect. The Aircraft Commander, Paul Tibbets, died in 2007 of heart failure( at age 92). The copilot, Robert Lewis, also died of heart failure in 1983( at age 66).

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The members here who support the 'love thy enemy' line of argument are standing on very thin ground in my view. Al-Qaeda is an ideology that seeks to take over the world by creating extreme Islamic states in all territoires, including the US, through violence. Do you really think we can fight this kind of movement with love and compassion? If you think we can, you might as well surrender right now and relinquish all the rights you currently hold.

Bin Laden deserved to die. I don't think I lack compassion for saying that.

Yes, love has the ability to transform. But of course you must recognize the times when love is lacking. During those times, you should strive for mutual respect. Your enemy cannot hate you for respecting him. And you should always preserve your rights and boundaries.

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Yes, love has the ability to transform. But of course you must recognize the times when love is lacking. During those times, you should strive for mutual respect. Your enemy cannot hate you for respecting him. And you should always preserve your rights and boundaries.

Strive for mutual respect? Perhaps on the playground, but not on the world stage where striving to attain national security objectives should be the goal.

Love and pacifism are not the same, but neither love nor pacifism will prevail with an enemy seeking your annihilation. Kill or be killed is the brutal reality.

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Food for thought:

Is It Wrong To Celebrate Bin Laden's Death?

by LINTON WEEKS

osama-death-celebrated-by-crowd-at-white-house_7137673_wide.jpg

Manuel Balce Ceneta/AP

A crowd gathers outside the White House early Monday to celebrate President Obama's announcement that U.S. forces killed Osama bin Laden.

Impromptu celebrations erupted near the White House in Washington and ground zero in New York when news of Osama bin Laden's death was reported and tweeted.

Laura Cunningham, a 22-year-old Manhattan reveler — gripping a Budweiser in her hand and sitting atop the shoulders of a friend — was part of the crowd at ground zero in the wee hours Monday. As people around her chanted "U-S-A," Cunningham was struck by the emotional response. She told New York Observer: "It's weird to celebrate someone's death. It's not exactly what we're here to celebrate, but it's wonderful that people are happy."

To read the rest of the article click here.

Edited by Jahfin
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"All you need is Love" Give me a break.

And I for one will fly my Fathers Flag Proudly. Wonder if some peoples attitude would be different if it was in their backyard that the three jets flew into...hmmmm

23r5s87.jpg

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For those who are sickened by Americans rejoicing and celebrating a man's death, I for one am GLAD that you are! Now you know how i feel every time i see my country's flag being burned by ungrateful citizens not only in my own country but abroad as well.

I am so glad though that i have the decency of my life's experiences to look past it and realize that there are many Americans as well as those abroad WHO do appreciate all of America's sacrifices as we Americans appreciate the sacrifices of those abroad to try and stop this breeding of hate that seems to always be produced in OTHER parts of the world that results in MASS people being killed unjustly.

This was not murder, this killing was absolutely necessary in order to protect lives here and abroad. This man did not value life. He brainwashed kids to blow themselves up in the name of religion. He died like a COWARD shielding himself with HIS wife! This man had no HONOR except to glorify himself. He deserved absolutely NO respect whatsoever!!

If this action puts me on thin ice, so be it bcz as a Proud Brave AMERICAN i will face whatever retaliation comes my way while holding my flag PROUDLY knowing what AMERICA stands for!

Liberty and Justice for ALL!!!

U.S.A - U.S.A - U.S.A

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Bottom line : We need to keep on fighting and this major breakthrough (Bin Laden's death) is certainly a big boost, which signifies that America and the rest of the world can indeed win the war on terror and that victory ain't some sort of distant dream or fantasy!

You can't defeat an ideology. Radical Islamic terrorism is an ideology that did not start with or die with Osama Bin Laden. I said it before, I'll say it again -- Bin Laden was merely one head of a hydra. Cut it off, another will grow back in its place. This is not the end, and the end is nowhere in sight.

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Sorry....I'm already busy planning an invasion based on lousy intel !

Seriously.....Am I the only one who enjoys the way our President pronounces "Pakistan" ?

Edited by Bong-Man
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You can't defeat an ideology. Radical Islamic terrorism is an ideology that did not start with or die with Osama Bin Laden. I said it before, I'll say it again -- Bin Laden was merely one head of a hydra. Cut it off, another will grow back in its place. This is not the end, and the end is nowhere in sight.

I agree with you about this not being the end,probably a long way from it.But ideologies can certainly be defeated.Both nazism and communism were both discredited and defeated and islamic totalatarianism will go the same way.The west has a huge part to play in its defeat but maybe the people who really defeat it will be those in islamic country's who have risen up recently and made plain that they want change.

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I like the fact he pronounces words like an educated adult would, yes. Bush gave up on finding Bin Laden, he was too interested in avenging his daddy by taking down Sadaam Hussein.

One thing I greatly enjoyed about the Presidential debates between Obama and McCain is that it showed Obama had a willingness to do the unpopular thing even if it was the right thing. Going into a sovereign country and killing someone is an unpopular action, but they were hiding and harboring this man, and going in there and taking him out was the right thing to do and it was done. You will find no one who will say we shouldn't have done it. Pakistan is all pissed now because we didn't tell them we were doing it, but considering that they basically made it possible for him to hide out there as long as he has, in the center of town, right near a military academy means their opinion has fuck all's worth.

Let them be pissed. Maybe they shouldn't have been taking billions of dollars from us just to turn around and shelter this schlub.

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I agree with you about this not being the end,probably a long way from it.But ideologies can certainly be defeated.Both nazism and communism were both discredited and defeated and islamic totalatarianism will go the same way.The west has a huge part to play in its defeat but maybe the people who really defeat it will be those in islamic country's who have risen up recently and made plain that they want change.

The people who need to put an end to this are the people living in those countries. I've never believed nor ascribed in the "Domino Theory", whereby unless the US marches in guns blazing, it will spread all over the world. It didn't work when we got involved in that clusterfuck in Southeast Asia, and it's not going to work now. The US needs to spend more time worrying about its own people, and spending money on its own citizens, and let the people of the world deal with their own shit.

Egypt handled themselves. Tunisia handled themselves. This can happen. Once the people get fed up enough, they will take action. We are not the world's police, it's not our job to dictate how other people live. We don't have to like it, we don't have to believe in it, we can rail against it until we're blue in the face. That doesn't mean we have the business or the authority to march around with our dicks out, telling people the sheriff is in town. All it does is perpetuate the stereotype of the "ugly American" and give these terrorists more reason to want to do us and other Western people harm.

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Pakistan is all pissed now because we didn't tell them we were doing it, but considering that they basically made it possible for him to hide out there as long as he has, in the center of town, right near a military academy means their opinion has fuck all's worth.

Let them be pissed. Maybe they shouldn't have been taking billions of dollars from us just to turn around and shelter this schlub.

EXACTLY !......And I think Mr. Prez needs to play that card very soon, if he shouldn't have done it already. It's in the realm of possibility that Pakistan's gov't honestly didn't know he was there, or who was obviously protecting him, but that seems like enough reason to at least threaten to withdraw some financial support from the current regime if they don't quit trying to play both sides of the fence.

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Strive for mutual respect? Perhaps on the playground, but not on the world stage where striving to attain national security objectives should be the goal.

Love and pacifism are not the same, but neither love nor pacifism will prevail with an enemy seeking your annihilation. Kill or be killed is the brutal reality.

striving to attain national security objectives = And you should always preserve your rights and boundaries.

Respecting your enemy can be disarming and can sometimes buy time and keep you in whatever good graces he might have when you are in a pinch in enemy territory.

For those who are sickened by Americans rejoicing and celebrating a man's death, I for one am GLAD that you are! Now you know how i feel every time i see my country's flag being burned by ungrateful citizens not only in my own country but abroad as well.

I am so glad though that i have the decency of my life's experiences to look past it and realize that there are many Americans as well as those abroad WHO do appreciate all of America's sacrifices as we Americans appreciate the sacrifices of those abroad to try and stop this breeding of hate that seems to always be produced in OTHER parts of the world that results in MASS people being killed unjustly.

This was not murder, this killing was absolutely necessary in order to protect lives here and abroad. This man did not value life. He brainwashed kids to blow themselves up in the name of religion. He died like a COWARD shielding himself with HIS wife! This man had no HONOR except to glorify himself. He deserved absolutely NO respect whatsoever!!

If this action puts me on thin ice, so be it bcz as a Proud Brave AMERICAN i will face whatever retaliation comes my way while holding my flag PROUDLY knowing what AMERICA stands for!

Liberty and Justice for ALL!!!

U.S.A - U.S.A - U.S.A

I can understand the emotion that people are experiencing. He caused great pain and loss to many and it is natural for them to react. It is a free country. If waving the flag makes them happy then I can accept that with a smile.

At the same time it frustrated me that I could not restore the many lives that the man had taken. He was a very handsome man and he threw his life away when he sacrificed so many people. How stupid was that? All I could do was pray for their redemption as they were then in the hands of the heavenly Father. And I knew then that Osama's days were numbered and that he could only look over his shoulder as the long arm of the law reached for him. I knew there was nothing I could do in this world to change that. But I could still pray for the healing of his victims and the redemption of his soul in heaven where he can someday find forgiveness for the wrong he did in this world.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Vatican says Bin Laden will have to answer to God

kgmi.com

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden will have to answer to God for having killed many people and exploiting religion to spread hate, the Vatican said on Monday.

Spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that while Christians "do not rejoice" over a death, it serves to remind them of "each person's responsibility before God and men."

"Osama bin Laden, as everyone knows, had the grave responsibility of having spread division and hate among people, causing the deaths of an innumerable number of people and exploiting religion for these purposes," he said.

The Vatican has often condemned the concept of violence in God's name.

Lombardi also said the Vatican hoped that the death of bin Laden "would not be an occasion for more hate, but for peace."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And this just in...

Osama Bin Laden Unarmed When Killed, White House Says

By Brian Ross and Lee Ferran

abcnews.go.com

Osama bin Laden was not armed when he was shot and killed by U.S. Navy SEALs during a daring raid on his compound in Pakistan, the White House said today.

"We were prepared to capture him if that was possible," White House spokesman Jay Carney said. But even though bin Laden was not carrying a weapon, Carney said he had "resisted" and several people in the compound were armed and firing at the American special operators.

"Resistance does not require a firearm," Carney said.

When the SEALs entered the room in which bin Laden was hiding, his wife charged them and was shot in the leg, Carney said. Bin Laden was then shot in the chest and head.

"U.S. personnel on the ground handled themselves with the utmost professionalism," he said. "[bin Laden] was killed in an operation because of the resistance they met."

The decision to kill, rather than capture, came from commanders on the ground, Carney said.

Officials initially said that bin Laden had been among several people in the compound who took up arms and engaged in a firefight with the SEALs.

President Obama's counterterror chief John Brennan also initially said that bin Laden used one of his wives as a human shield and the woman was killed in the gun battle. That has turned out to be incorrect and officials attributed the mistake to the confusion that usually accompanies a fast moving gun battle, or "the fog of war."

latimes.com

By Michael A. Memoli, Washington Bureau May 3, 2011, 11:47 a.m.

Osama bin Laden was not armed when U.S. forces shot and killed him, the White House announced Tuesday.

Press Secretary Jay Carney delivered a fuller public readout of the 40-minute raid on the Al Qaeda leader’s compound, during which he also clarified that Bin Laden’s wife was shot, but not killed, as was stated Monday.

Photos - Los Angeles Times - Warning - Some graphic scenes, viewer discretion advised.

Edited by Silver Rider
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"All you need is Love" Give me a break.

And I for one will fly my Fathers Flag Proudly. Wonder if some peoples attitude would be different if it was in their backyard

We in the UK were saying that for 30 years when Noraid was thriving.

I am not anti -U.S.A - not by any stretch. I think emotions are running high.

Peace to all would be lovely .x

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As this was your second response to my post, I guess I should reply. My point, which I stand by, is that the writers I was referring to were gloating over the ugly death of another human being whom they regard as evil (and I agree with them about the "evil" part). Morally, that's pretty much identical to bin Laden. I'm not supporting either of them, and certainly not him.

I don't see how you can compare the morality of a person who gloats in print over the demise of a mass murderer of innocent people.

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I'm just glad he is dead. Many Muslims aren't happy with the U.S. but when aren't they? The fact that Pakistan "didn't know" he was hiding out there is bs. He a.) was on military property and b.) was a mile down the road from a military base and they didn't know he was there? C'mon man! Do they think we are stupid? We embarrassed them; I think that's why they are upset we went in without "permission."

I can understand the residents of the city not knowing but he had been there for two years and they had no idea? I highly doubt it.

Edited by JimmyPageZoSo56
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