Osama bin Laden DEAD

[Knebby]

No, they were not just MLK's words. I don't see anything sickening about being patriotic. Especially when it's in relation to defeating an enemy who's sole purpose is to kill innocent people for his own amusement.

Flag-waving and patriotism is not a problem for me - I love to see the USA celebrating July 4th and I was just delighted to see the flag-waving at the Royal Wedding in England on Friday. That's real patriotism and there's not a thing wrong with it. But I compare what I am referring to, the news coverage and pictures I have seen, with the flag-waving I see from some factions at the Old Firm football matches in Scotland, and English football hooligans embarrassing us abroad. That's not patriotism, it's hate.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Knebby

[SteveAJones]

I compare what I am referring to with the flag-waving I see from some factions at the Old Firm football matches in Scotland, and English football hooligans embarrassing us abroad. That's not patriotism, it's hate.

I don't disagree with Knebby. On the other hand the US has a population of over 300,000,000 so however many gathered at the White House and in NYC is but an infitesimal representation of the whole. Of course the press coverage they get distorts reality.

[Knebby]

I don't disagree with Knebby. On the other hand the US has a population of over 300,000,000 so however many gathered at the White House and in NYC is but an infitesimal representation of the whole. Of course the press coverage they get distorts reality.

Sorry Steve didn't mean to be editing whilst you were quoting - just trying to make my point a little clearer as I'm aware that it was open to interpretation.

[Silver Rider]

Ok, now your mission have finnished, i suppose that the troops in Irak are going to back home, but i dont believe it...

Army stiil in Irak because of what, i would like to know the reason.

USA wants the world, thats because always attack them, the entire world hates EEUU, but what can we do?? Our economy depends on them.

Ideally, they should assure the area is stable and not a threat. The more stable Iraq is, the more likely the United States troops will leave.

usf-iraq.com/news/headlines/chairman-of-the-joint-chiefs-of-staff-visits-troops-in-iraq

During his speech in the palace rotunda, Mullen acknowledged that the mission and the personnel carrying out the mission are more important and tougher now than it was when the war first started in 2003. Placing the Iraqis in charge of their own security and their destiny is what this mission is all about, he said. “I am extremely grateful for your time here and your focus on the mission.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mullen stated that there are no plans nor has there been any request from the Iraqi government for any residual U.S. force presence beyond 2011.

“Gen. Austin is on a plan right now to end the mission based on the current strategic framework agreement, which was signed a few years ago,” he said. “Late this summer we will see the pace and scope of the drawdown reach its most aggressive level.”

Mullen went on to clarify the U.S. stance on its future in Iraq.

“Should the Iraqi government have the desire to discuss the potential for some U.S. troops to stay, I am certain my government will welcome that dialogue,” he said. “But it needs to start soon, very soon, should there be any chances of avoiding irrevocable logistics and operational decisions we must make in the coming weeks.”

“We desire truly strategic partnership with Iraq, one that last a very long time into the future,” Mullen said. “That partnership won’t end with our departure but it must certainly begin with keeping our promises.”

Edited May 4, 2011 by Silver Rider

[Silver Rider]

Oh, good grief. A multi-million dollar fortified super-structure such as his doesn't get built in that location without some level of complicity. The Pakistani government has a lot to answer for!

I don't know. When the neighbors were interviewed, they seemed surprised. But when the Taj Majal was attacked, there was an area of Pakistan that came into question. So maybe this is similar. Remember that Pakistan itself has gone through some major changes recently. There are those who you can trust in Pakistan and those you can't.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bin Laden's hosts were 2 Pakistanis from frontier

Men who protected terror leader described as model neighbors

By Carlotta Gall, New York Times

msnbc.msn.com

They were known here as Arshad Khan and Tareq Khan, although one police official said that Arshad was not the man’s real name and that he carried a fake identity card. Although American officials have said they were brothers, a neighbor who gave his name only as Qassim said the men were cousins. Qassim lives directly opposite the compound that American commandos stormed just after midnight Monday, and his father worked as a watchman there for several years.

The men were Pashtuns from Charsadda, in the northwest frontier region close to Afghanistan, and moved to Abbottabad seven years ago. It remains unclear how they came to know Bin Laden and whether the men were known to the Pakistani military or intelligence services.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Pakistan court issues arrest warrant against Musharraf

Former president accused of failing to disclose knowledge of a Taliban plot to murder Benazir Bhutto

guardian.co.uk

Edited May 4, 2011 by Silver Rider

[lzzoso]

BTW, the one thing about all this that has sickened me is the opportunistic patriotism. People who don't give two shits about the flag, or patriotism, or our soldiers all of a sudden turning into overly jingoistic, wannabe Yankee Doodles. I saw dozens of houses flying the American flag yesterday that weren't flying them last week, and today they were all put away. . Bin Laden's dead, so it's time to wave the flag and now it's time to put it away until Memorial Day, and then we'll put it away again until the 4th of July.....rinse, lather, repeat.

These are the same people who if you ask them who their Congresscritters are, couldn't tell you. I hate that. Either fly the flag every day, all day (weather permitting) or don't fly it at all.

You know what sickens me is people like you and aquamarine who seem to enjoy putting down Americans because of the love that WE profess for OUR country. (Your country too).

I have stated that I am and will always be a PROUD and LOYAL AMERICAN. I have stated this months ago on this forum (actually MY whole life) and you denigrated me back then. This is a direct quote from you to me back on February 14, 2011.

"So take the American flag out of your ass, wipe the face paint off, and look in the mirror. It's people like you that make people around the world hate us. So good going, genius."

You said this to me when I posted a reply to the topic, Thank You Middle East for?... I said then and I still say now, FUCK YOU Middle East, I would not want to thank that region of the World for nothing. If anyone chooses go back and read my post, #39, to that topic and then read the post #41 by Walesdad. (I would rather thank Walsedad than the fucking Middle East).

Back to your post. Why does it bother you if "People are only patriotic in this country anymore when they can use it to assert superiority over another person or country"? At least they are Patriotic. I have a very strong feeling that YOU are not Patriotic at all. I am positive that I am not the only one who thinks that. It seems that the only thing you do love about the United States of America is the right to free speech. Anonymous speech at that. So why don't you fucking relax and not disparage others because of their love for their country.

Osama bin Laden is dead. Killed by AMERICAN SPECIAL FORCES by bullets made in AMERICA. I would love to meet the man that killed him and shake his hand and really say "Thank You". I bet you would love to meet him and spit in his face.

By the way, I would like to thank you for calling me a "Genuis" and Yes I can name my local Congressmen and the two Texas Senators (and the Governor) if it matters to you which it does not.

Edited May 4, 2011 by lzzoso

[Strider]

This happened. You can pretend it didn't until you see graphic, uncensored pictures of his bullet-ridden corpse, but the rest of us will go on without you, if that's alright. He's dead. A member of our Navy SEALS put a bullet between his eyes. This terrorist is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker! He's a stiff! Bereft of life, he rests in peace! If we hadn't shot him between the eyes, he'd be pushing up the daisies! He's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-TERRORIST!

:lol:

Ummm, Steve...does that look like Liz is doubting Osama is dead? I'm telling you, you're confusing Liz's posts with cate's.

This just in...Osama bin Laden is STILL dead.

[cate]

So where is the " photographic evidence of his dead body"?

With something as serious and far reaching as this I think most sane people, after all the hysteria is over, would require some tangable hard evidence to back up the usual lies that all politicians are prone to tell.

Not saying it didnt happen but I want to see some proof, talk is cheap.

(I only use tin foil to wrap up the turkey, otherwise my head gets to dam hot. LOL)

Strider, is that clearer for you? neither Electrophile or myself are saying he isn't dead, but a little proof would be nice, its not as if every other person that the US government murdered was'nt laid out in a coffin for all to witness as being actualy dead, and lets face facts, Washington keeps changing the story by the hour, lies, dam lies followed by even more lies, same old same old, this is why no one outside the US can believe a word your governments say and why you have no credibility in the wider world.

Edit to add, Great Britain suffers from the same Government spin as well so you are not alone.

Edited May 4, 2011 by cate

[lzzoso]

Strider, is that clearer for you? neither Electrophile or myself are saying he isn't dead, but a little proof would be nice, its not as if every other person that the US government murdered was'nt laid out in a coffin for all to witness as being actualy dead, and lets face facts, Washington keeps changing the story by the hour, lies, dam lies followed by even more lies, same old same old, this is why no one outside the US can believe a word your governments say and why you have no credibility in the wider world.

I don't know who you are but are you really serious? US government murdered? How about the US Government killing the most wanted terrorist in the history of Mankind. The same terrorist that was responsible for the July 7, 2005 London bombings of subways and buses in the city that you reside. Does that ring a bell? Are you just too stupid and/or ignorant? Both it seems.

"this is why no one outside the US can believe a word your governments say and why you have no credibility in the wider world."

Okay so let me get this straight. My Government has no credibility in the wider world, as you so succinctly put it? Is that what you are saying and really mean? Why is it that whenever there is some kind of disaster anywhere in the "wider world", be it natural or otherwise, what country always comes to their aid in some form or another? Yemen? Greece? Poland? Ireland? Madagascar? Finland? North Korea? Iran? Libya? Pakistan? Columbia? How about none of the above and about 80% of the rest of the countries of the world.

The answer is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Always, without fail, the United States has and will always help out other countries in need of assistance. Whether friend or foe, we are always willing to give the best Humanitarian effort as best WE can.

Let me edit my post to say that if it were not for the country that has "no credibility in the wider world" as you say, You very well may have been born speaking German and not English. Ask your parents (or Grandparents) how much the U.S.A. has meant to them. If it was not for the American participation in the "Battle of Britian" (even before Pearl Harbor), Your country may very well have been a "satellite" of Nazi Germany. Thank God that never happened because Led Zeppelin may never have existed if this would have happened. Again, YOU have to somehow be grateful for the United States of America. I know I am.

Edited May 4, 2011 by lzzoso

[Bong-Man]

If the libs had succeeded in closing GITMO Osama would still be strolling the grounds of his multi-million dollar mansion this morning.

What is the basis of this statement ? I've seen no evidence of anyone claiming that the currier information was obtained at Gitmo. I've seen no evidence that the information was obtained thru water torture, or by rewarding someone with a big steak. The only information I've heard is that the CIA obtained the information from an interview that occurred in a European prison.....and what proof do you have that the information couldn't have been obtained at any detention center no matter the location ? Remember....according to the last regime, the U.S. doesn't torture.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Bong-Man

[Anjin-san]

depends who you ask,...

[SteveAJones]

What is the basis of this statement ? I've seen no evidence of anyone claiming that the currier information was obtained at Gitmo. I've seen no evidence that the information was obtained thru water torture, or by rewarding someone with a big steak. The only information I've heard is that the CIA obtained the information from an interview that occurred in a European prison.....and what proof do you have that the information couldn't have been obtained at any detention center no matter the location? Remember....according to the last regime, the U.S. doesn't torture.

Here's but one link of hundreds:

Guantanamo torture was the key: Detainees led the CIA to Bin Laden's hideout

By Jason Groves

Last updated at 6:16 PM on 3rd May 2011

Detainees at Guantanamo Bay provided the crucial breakthrough in hunting down Osama Bin Laden, American officials said last night.

Senior officials in the Obama administration said intelligence gained from interrogations at the U.S. base was directly responsible for helping security forces track down and kill Bin Laden.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382893/Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-CIA-led-hideout-Guantanamo-detainees.html

There are hundreds of other links to choose from reporting the same. Additionally, IMHO, though the distinctions between torture and interrogation may appear blurred, there are distinctions nonetheless. It is not my intent to explore that argument in this thread, merely to reiterate the interrogation techniques yielded the desired results. The location though known is not important, but we all know the objective of those seeking to close the location is to end these interrogation techniques.

Edited May 4, 2011 by SteveAJones

[Electrophile]

Liz was questioning Osama's death by insisting on photographic evidence of his demise.

Are you blind? Because only someone who doesn't have functioning eyeballs would look at any of my posts in this thread and come to the conclusion that I don't think he's really dead.

Your hatred for me is well-established enough that you shouldn't be confusing me with other people. Bad form, dude. Bad form.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Electrophile

[Bong-Man]

It is not my intent to explore that argument in this thread, merely to reiterate the interrogation techniques yielded the desired results.

Thanks for the link. I read your comment as implying that if Gitmo was closed, we would have never obtained the information. That's a leap.

[Anjin-san]

"The initial info [about the courier] came from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

Who is at Gitmo

[SteveAJones]

Are you illiterate? Because only someone who doesn't know how to read would look at any of my posts in this thread and come to the conclusion that I don't think he's really dead.

Your hatred for me is well-established enough that you shouldn't be confusing me with other people. Bad form, dude. Bad form.

Sorry if I misheard what you said in all the cacaphony. For the record, I have no personal hatred for you whatsoever. In fact, I'm rather smitten by your physical charms, as well as your moxie. However, I do happen to disagree with 99.9% of your viewpoints.

[SteveAJones]

Thanks for the link. I read your comment as implying that if Gitmo was closed, we would have never obtained the information. That's a leap.

If there is a leap being made here might I suggest it is your view we ought move from the fact of the matter to the hypothetical. Opposition to Gitmo has little to do with location and everything to do with ceasing use of techniques employed there.

Edited May 4, 2011 by SteveAJones

[MrZoSo]

Strider, is that clearer for you? neither Electrophile or myself are saying he isn't dead, but a little proof would be nice, its not as if every other person that the US government murdered was'nt laid out in a coffin for all to witness as being actualy dead, and lets face facts, Washington keeps changing the story by the hour, lies, dam lies followed by even more lies, same old same old, this is why no one outside the US can believe a word your governments say and why you have no credibility in the wider world.

Edit to add, Great Britain suffers from the same Government spin as well so you are not alone.

Actually you can blame the freedom of the press, (and loose interpretation) for the prior inaccurate reports. It was amazing the amount of conflicting accounts that were being reported that first night. Freedom of the press can sometimes mean more conjecture than facts in the beginning of any major news story. It wasn't all coming from the White House or the Pentagon. It was as if each channel was playing "fill in the blanks" and telling the story as they wanted to hear it. The actual facts, as stated from the administration weren't released until later the next day.

Edited May 4, 2011 by MrZoSo

[cryingbluerain]

Additionally, IMHO, though the distinctions between torture and interrogation may appear blurred, there are distinctions nonetheless. It is not my intent to explore that argument in this thread, merely to reiterate the interrogation techniques yielded the desired results. The location though known is not important, but we all know the objective of those seeking to close the location is to end these interrogation techniques.

And the end of those techniques is what puts us in ever greater danger. The Obama admin's elimination of the CIA Detainee Program and its enhanced interrogation techniques will probably make it much more difficult to obtain the intel necessary to track down terrorists in the future.

[Bong-Man]

And the end of those techniques is what puts us in ever greater danger. The Obama admin's elimination of the CIA Detainee Program and its enhanced interrogation techniques will probably make it much more difficult to obtain the intel necessary to track down terrorists in the future.

The interrogation techniques Obama eliminated by his Executive Order included “the facial hold, attention grasp, tummy slap, facial slap, a diet of liquid Ensure and mild sleep deprivation (a maximum of four consecutive days).” According to Thiessen, none of these methods constitute torture, or even inflict more suffering than training for a typical high school football team.

Which H.S. team did he play for.....Cheney High ?

[SteveAJones]

"Tell me where Bin Laden's hiding ya miserable...##!!&*...ya wanna get tummy slapped some more?!"

Edited May 4, 2011 by SteveAJones

[MrZoSo]

We can only hope for more of this...

al-Qaida member surrenders

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – Saudi Arabia says an al-Qaida member on the kingdom's most wanted list called from abroad and turned himself in.

Interior Ministry's spokesman Maj. Gen. Mansour Al-Turki said in a statement Wednesday that Khaled Hathal Abdullah al-Atifi al-Qahtani contacted the security authorities from an undisclosed country and expressed his wish to come home.

Al-Turki did not say when al-Qahtani was brought back to the kingdom, but many from the group fled to Yemen after a crackdown.

Al-Qahtani was reunited with his family and his surrender will be taken into consideration while looking into his case, Al-Turki said.

Al-Qahtani is apparently the first al-Qaida operative to surrender after its leader Osama bin Laden was killed on Monday.

[spidersandsnakes]

Western style corruption?Spidersandsnakes,you have got to be joking.Surely what the people you mentioned have suffered under and are sick of is islamic totalatarian corruption.You know the one,no free elections,states of emergency lasting decades,all the top government jobs handed out to members of the rulers family,etc.What these people want is really what we in the civilised world take for granted.It's called freedom.I hope they get it and hold on to it.

YES......THAT is exactly what I said.......WESTERN STYLE CORRUPTION!!!! Can you deny that the West exported its WORST forms of CORRUPTION to the above-mentioned states??! Oh sure....those people WILL have their deserved freedom, but only when they get rid of their monarchic rulers will they actually OBTAIN freedom!!! The PEOPLE did it in Egypt, in Tunisia, they are doing it in Lybia.....AND they will do it in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, etc. as well.....THE PEOPLE ALWAYS WIN....it's undeniable, it's under the eyes of the whole world.....let's wake up to it :):)

Edited May 4, 2011 by spidersandsnakes

[spidersandsnakes]

How about the US Government killing the most wanted terrorist in the history of Mankind

I think history has shown that the world's most wanted TERRORIST and DICTATOR has long been dead.....ADOLF HITLER, a right-wing fanatic!!!:)

THANK YOU AMERICA:)!!!!

[spidersandsnakes]

Talking about freedom and freedomS:):)

http://blog.nj.com/njv_bob_braun/2011/05/with_bin_laden_dead_can_we_sto.html

Braun: With bin Laden dead, will freedoms return now? Don't hold your breath

Published: Wednesday, May 04, 2011, 9:20 AM

Now that the triumphalist breast-beating has stopped, can we now get on to the only meaningful celebration? Now that Osama bin Laden is dead, can we now stop living in fear?

Or as Jim Harper, a blogger for the Washington-based Cato Institute, wrote: "Can I have my airport back please?"

Can we repeal laws that made it easier for the government to spy on its people? Can we now return to trying criminals in civilian courts? Can we close Guantánamo? Can we end the war in Afghanistan begun to get at the man eventually found living in relative luxury in another country, a half-mile from Pakistan’s West Point?

Mark Denbeaux, a professor at Seton Hall Law School and attorney for some detainees in Guantánamo, says that, "Now that we have effectively beaten the man who made us live in terror, isn’t time to return to what life was like before 9/11?"

The answer, of course, should be "Yes," but we all know it isn’t.

In the same speech announcing bin Laden’s death, President Barack Obama warned, "Yet his death does not mark the end of our effort. There’s no doubt that al Qaeda will continue to pursue attacks against us. We must — and we will — remain vigilant at home and abroad."

Endless fear. Endless war. In an Orwellian twist, victory made us less secure.

"I’m confused," says Lorie Van Auken of East Brunswick, one of the so-called "Jersey Widows" who successfully lobbied for the creation of the 9/11 Commission. "First, we were told we had to invade Afghanistan because the Taliban wouldn’t give up bin Laden. Then, after we couldn’t find him, we decided finding him really wasn’t that important but we had to stay in Afghanistan anyway — and even invade Iraq.

"Now we find out bin Laden was living in Pakistan. We kill him and everybody celebrates a great triumph — so I guess he was a big deal again. So, can we stop the war in Afghanistan now?"

AP File PhotoTerror mastermind Osama bin Laden, pictured in this 1998 file photo.Denbeaux said the nation should act as if it had emerged from a decade-long nightmare. "When it ends, we should be facing a sunnier, brighter day — not just more of the same.’’

He said bin Laden’s elimination proved the "country should no longer be timid and fearful, we should restore faith in the courts and allow trials for the people we hold in custody.’’

Trying to remember Sept. 10, 2001, is difficult. Certainly getting through airports was easier. Washington and New York weren’t bastions of security. Now virtually every government building, and many private ones, have metal detectors and armed security guards. But those aren’t the most important changes. Since the invasion of Afghanistan, we have lost nearly 6,000 troops there and in Iraq.

"We are acting as if someone or some group will always be trying to take us over — and maybe they are,’’ says Donald Robertson of Wall, whose son Donald was killed on 9/11. "Maybe that’s just the way it has to be.’’

Maybe. But it makes the cheering flat and useless. The restoration of civil liberties would have been so much more satisfying than fist-pumping over the death of one man. Putting an end to the list of dead Americans would be a far more poignant commemoration of the 10th anniversary of 9/11.

Instead, it’s well — break is over, everybody back to full-body screens, intimate pat-downs and taking off your belts and shoes. Even Harper from the Cato Institute said wanting our airports back is probably too premature a wish. He concluded:

"Osama bin Laden’s survival helped shore up the mystique of the terrorist supervillain, which has fed counterterrorism excess such as the Transportation Security Administration’s domestic airport security gauntlet. Now that bin Laden is gone, the public will be more willing to carefully balance security and privacy in our free country. By a small, but important margin, courts will be less willing to indulge extravagant government claims about threat and risk.’’

Frank Askin, head of the Constitutional Law Clinic at Rutgers-Newark, agreed courts would lead easing the security state. "In times of crisis, courts defer to the executive — only to admit later, as they did with interning Japanese-Americans in World War II, that they made a mistake.’’

Even better would be an affirmative answer to Denbeaux’s question: "Can we stop being afraid now?"