Anjin-san Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Free will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walesdad Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Let's assume for a second that god exists, and that he created all of this. 1. Why does he not intervene when his creation (i.e. the infrastructure or its inhabitants) malfunctions? More to the point, since he is allegedly all-knowing, and therefore knows when a major earthquake is about to occur or some goth loser's gonna go postal, why doesn't he intervene to PREVENT it from malfunctioning in the first place? Surely he has a duty of care towards us. Why is he neglecting that duty so egregiously? 2. The god/man relationship is supposedly a two-way arrangement. I'm talking about prayer here. So, how many times have your prayers been answered? Ok, now disregard those outcomes which were likely to occur anyway, e.g. recovery from serious but generally curable conditions. How many now? And what about the macro issues? How come 'two or more gathered together in his name for a common prayer' haven't yet succeeded in removing one solitary generally accepted Bad Thing, such as famine, genocide, paedophilia, Sepp Blatter etc? I'm calling bullshit on the whole deal. The meek shall inherit nothing. I can't argue with a word you've said.This is what makes belief so difficult and,on the face of it,so illogical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Speaking of the "If God exists" tangent: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -- Epicurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualMotion Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 So if God is Love, why does he neglect his children? And, if those who are believers credit God with the good things, why don't they blame God for the bad things? He's not a very hard worker. More like he's resting on his laurels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Speaking of the "If God exists" tangent: "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" -- Epicurus For that Blasphemy give me 10 Hail Marys and 1 Hows your Father. Regards, Father Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Free will? Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Free will? Never mind. I got ya Angin, many havent. Very Kind Regards, Shalom, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walesdad Posted May 31, 2011 Author Share Posted May 31, 2011 Free will? Never mind. With respect friend,how is the recent devastation in Japan say,anything to do with free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Rider Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 The revelations above throw still more MYSTICISM on the whole deal....too many references to things and events the average layman cannot fully grasp.....go figure :) It will take a while to sift through it, but this is how the Cardinal explained it in his letter. And so we come to the final question: What is the meaning of the "secret" of Fatima as a whole (in its three parts)? What does it say to us? First of all we must affirm with Cardinal Sodano: "... the events to which the third part of the 'secret' of Fatima refers now seem part of the past". Insofar as individual events are described, they belong to the past. Those who expected exciting apocalyptic revelations about the end of the world or the future course of history are bound to be disappointed. Fatima does not satisfy our curiosity in this way, just as Christian faith in general cannot be reduced to an object of mere curiosity. What remains was already evident when we began our reflections on the text of the "secret": the exhortation to prayer as the path of "salvation for souls" and, likewise, the summons to penance and conversion. I would like finally to mention another key expression of the "secret" which has become justly famous: "my Immaculate Heart will triumph". What does this mean? The Heart open to God, purified by contemplation of God, is stronger than guns and weapons of every kind. The fiat of Mary, the word of her heart, has changed the history of the world, because it brought the Saviour into the world—because, thanks to her Yes, God could become man in our world and remains so for all time. The Evil One has power in this world, as we see and experience continually; he has power because our freedom continually lets itself be led away from God. But since God himself took a human heart and has thus steered human freedom towards what is good, the freedom to choose evil no longer has the last word. From that time forth, the word that prevails is this: "In the world you will have tribulation, but take heart; I have overcome the world" (Jn 16:33). The message of Fatima invites us to trust in this promise. JosephCard. Ratzinger Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Let's assume for a second that god exists, and that he created all of this. 1. Why does he not intervene when his creation (i.e. the infrastructure or its inhabitants) malfunctions? More to the point, since he is allegedly all-knowing, and therefore knows when a major earthquake is about to occur or some goth loser's gonna go postal, why doesn't he intervene to PREVENT it from malfunctioning in the first place? Surely he has a duty of care towards us. Why is he neglecting that duty so egregiously? 2. The god/man relationship is supposedly a two-way arrangement. I'm talking about prayer here. So, how many times have your prayers been answered? Ok, now disregard those outcomes which were likely to occur anyway, e.g. recovery from serious but generally curable conditions. How many now? And what about the macro issues? How come 'two or more gathered together in his name for a common prayer' haven't yet succeeded in removing one solitary generally accepted Bad Thing, such as famine, genocide, paedophilia, Sepp Blatter etc? I'm calling bullshit on the whole deal. The meek shall inherit nothing. Have you forgotten the Presence? Seems to me there is some Truth there, many relationships - and many duties - to consider (Mother/Father, Father/Mother, Mother/Daughter, Daughter/Mother, Mother/Son, Son/Mother, Father/Daughter, Daughter/Father, Father/Son, Son/Father, Brother/Sister, Sister/Brother etc.) - along with the requirements of the Obelisk. Obelisks are said to resemble a "petrified ray" of the sundisk. Jimmy Page said "To me, it was more important what was behind the obelisk. The cover is very tongue-in-cheek, to be quite honest. Sort of a joke on [the film] 2001. I think it's quite amusing." So ... Jimmy's probably aware of the fact that the meek often inherit a big mess ... ... and that they'd never manage to sort it out without God's heavenly intervention! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Rider Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Have you forgotten the Presence? Seems to me there is some Truth there, many relationships - and many duties - to consider (Mother/Father, Father/Mother, Mother/Daughter, Daughter/Mother, Mother/Son, Son/Mother, Father/Daughter, Daughter/Father, Father/Son, Son/Father, Brother/Sister, Sister/Brother etc.) - along with the requirements of the Obelisk. Obelisks are said to resemble a "petrified ray" of the sundisk. Jimmy Page said "To me, it was more important what was behind the obelisk. The cover is very tongue-in-cheek, to be quite honest. Sort of a joke on [the film] 2001. I think it's quite amusing." So ... Jimmy's probably aware of the fact that the meek often inherit a big mess ... Obelisks were found in ancient Egypt but some were dispersed throughout the world. Herodotus, a traveller from Greece, was one of the first to describe obelisks. Hence, the word 'obelisk' as it is known in English is a word that originated from the Greek language. In ancient times, the obelisk symbolized the Egyptian sun god Ra. There was a belief that the sun god Ra existed within the structure of the obelisk. source: wiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hi all With respect friend,how is the recent devastation in Japan say,anything to do with free will. With respect my friend: 1. Why does he not intervene when his creation (i.e. the infrastructure or its inhabitants) malfunctions? More to the point, since he is allegedly all-knowing, and therefore knows when a major earthquake is about to occur or some goth loser's gonna go postal, why doesn't he intervene to PREVENT it from malfunctioning in the first place? Surely he has a duty of care towards us. Why is he neglecting that duty so egregiously? Without free will,we would be slaves, not the children of God.Without pleasure, there can be no pain.Without joy, there can be no sorrow. Ying and Yang. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hi all With respect my friend: Without free will,we would be slaves, not the children of God.Without pleasure, there can be no pain.Without joy, there can be no sorrow. Ying and Yang. KB And Kev our reward will be in the next world, trouble is there are to many people that want that reward without doing anything to deserve it, and many on here defo dont deserve it wouldnt yoy say? blashphemers as they are. Very Kind Regards, Danny the Deserved One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hi Danny,all, And Kev our reward will be in the next world, trouble is there are to many people that want that reward without doing anything to deserve it, and many on here defo dont deserve it wouldnt yoy say? blashphemers as they are. I don't think so mate,.... I have been though enough fire and death to serve several lifetimes,and my sins are many.St Pete would,no doubt, kick me off the pitch! KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hi Danny,all, I don't think so mate,.... I have been though enough fire and death to serve several lifetimes,and my sins are many.St Pete would,no doubt, kick me off the pitch! KB You and the rest of us mate, still i hear they party harder in hell than in heaven, and they play a lot of hard heavy rock as well, that'll do fine for me pardner. Very Kind Regards, Danny the Sinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 There is no rock n' roll in hell. That's why it's hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualMotion Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 There is no rock n' roll in hell. That's why it's hell. So you think sitting around at the Pearly Gates listening to some Harp player is going to be rock and roll ? And I don't mean mouth organ. Give me hell anyday Harry ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerpetualMotion Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hell yeah ! Rock and Roll is the Devil's music !!! AC/DC knew the route to take !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 "Hendrix is on harp tonight..." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0fQwOIsGD0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slave to zep Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Speaking of the "If God exists" tangent: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -- Epicurus love this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Speaking of the "If God exists" tangent: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” -- Epicurus love this! Easy words for Epicurus to say. His communities were very small, and he counseled his disciples to live a quiet, secretive life apart from society, avoiding responsibilities in public life (like holding office) or social life (like getting married). He settled the problem of relationships by avoiding (or maybe desiring to stay ignorant of) the whole situation altogether. His ideas wouldn't even keep the average SIMS game up and running smoothly for a day ! So ... how the heck can anybody who is sincerely trying to find a better way to live in our modern world - composed of MANY inhabitants and MANY relationships - agree with his philosophy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidersandsnakes Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hi all With respect my friend: Without free will,we would be slaves, not the children of God.Without pleasure, there can be no pain.Without joy, there can be no sorrow. Ying and Yang. KB Yes, Y&Y IS the best "doctrine" to date even though A "DOCTRINE" IT still IS:)! Some people who have "faith" deny the presence of Satan while they AFFIRM the prresence of God.....THAT frankly speaking, sounds FISHY to me:)! Y&Y says that "there are always two sides to a medal....." ....good & evil, black & white, rough and smooth, etc. .......and NO 2 sides can exist without the other......now that makes sense:)!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidersandsnakes Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hell yeah ! Rock and Roll is the Devil's music !!! AC/DC knew the route to take !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They sure did and poor Bon took that road many moons ago:( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidersandsnakes Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 It will take a while to sift through it, but this is how the Cardinal explained it in his letter. vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en. ......still more MYSTICISM we all do not really need...esp nowadays :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetredwine Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 So if God is Love, why does he neglect his children? And, if those who are believers credit God with the good things, why don't they blame God for the bad things? He's not a very hard worker. More like he's resting on his laurels. ... or ... maybe just waiting for His children to wake up and get real. Moses was meek, but inherited a very big mess. Be honest now: aren't most messes MAN-made ? Blaming it all on God - and dancing around the golden calf - are excellent ways to avoid reaching the "Promised Land"! THINK about it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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