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Walesdad

Intelligent Design or Pure Chance.........

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It's very simple Bigdan.....I don't need to PM you....if anyone admits there is good, then he/she HAS TO admit that there is evil 2:):):)!!!!!

Nice one Spider and thanks for the Images, but do you know the Real Meaning of the Yin and the Yang?

I'll give you a clue, Good and Evil are not part of it. ;)

Answers please on a postcard. ;)

Regards, Danny

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Nice one Spider and thanks for the Images, but do you know the Real Meaning of the Yin and the Yang?

I'll give you a clue, Good and Evil are not part of it. ;)

Answers please on a postcard. ;)

Regards, Danny

Yin & Yang is nothing and everything at the same time...and good and evil is only a minimum part of it....trust me :):):)!!!!

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I know yin and yang is not good and evil! But good and evil both exist in this world and if you go into philosophies that avoid that idea, you are just lying to yourself!!!

Edited by Matjaz1

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I know yin and yang is nor good and evil! But good and evil both exist in this world and if you go into philosophies that avoid that idea, you are just lying to yourself!!!

Pretty well summed up:):):)B)

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Yin & Yang is nothing and everything at the same time...and good and evil is only a minimum part of it....trust me :):):)!!!!

Trust Me? :lol:

Spider dont make me laugh mate, Yin & Yang can be summed up in ONE word, any ideas as to what word that is?

Good and Evil has nothing to do with Yin & Yang, i trust myself with that one.

Regards, Danny

PS, Are you a used car salesman by any chance?

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Trust Me? :lol:

Spider dont make me laugh mate, Yin & Yang can be summed up in ONE word, any ideas as to what word that is?

Good and Evil has nothing to do with Yin & Yang, i trust myself with that one.

Regards, Danny

PS, Are you a used car salesman by any chance?

Nope, I'm an English ESOL teacher, pro interpreter/translator, Cambridge OE examiner and preparer/trainer....have been for over 25 years really and I don't trust people who don't trust me, hehheheheheheheheh :):)!!!

Edited by spidersandsnakes

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Nope, I'm an English ESOL teacher, pro interpreter/translator, Cambridge OE examiner and preparer/trainer....have been for over 25 years really and I don't trust people who don't trust me, hehheheheheheheheh :):)!!!

Hi Spider

Why should i trust you when you cant or wont answer a simple question? its like you have something to hide. <_<

Regards, Danny

Edited by BIGDAN

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I'm an English ESOL teacher, pro interpreter/translator, Cambridge OE examiner and preparer/trainer....have been for over 25 years

That's interesting, S&S. Which nationality/ies do you teach?

I've effectively been an unpaid ESOL teacher for the past 5 years, ever since my wife came over from Thailand. Of course, it's usually a very rewarding activity, but it can be incredibly stressful & frustrating, don't you think? However hard I try, the subjunctive just isn't sinking in. Man, if I hear her say 'If I was...' ONE MORE TIME, I'm gonna grab her by the throat and smash her head against the goddamn wall :lol:

Do you ever have these feelings?

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That's interesting, S&S. Which nationality/ies do you teach?

I've effectively been an unpaid ESOL teacher for the past 5 years, ever since my wife came over from Thailand. Of course, it's usually a very rewarding activity, but it can be incredibly stressful & frustrating, don't you think? However hard I try, the subjunctive just isn't sinking in. Man, if I hear her say 'If I was...' ONE MORE TIME, I'm gonna grab her by the throat and smash her head against the goddamn wall :lol:

Do you ever have these feelings?

Hi colleague:). What do you mean "UNpaid"?????!:blink::unsure::o . I do that job for a living and get good $$$ to boot:)!. I'm currently teaching ESOL in Italy to Italians and I assure you it's quite tough:). Luckily, I speak Italian very fluently so I overome that problem easily. Well, Faby my Italian GF speaks English quite well, but sometimes she has problems with phrasal verbs and idioms...not so much with the subjunctive:):)!!!

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Hi Spider

Why should i trust you when you cant or wont answer a simple question? its like you have something to hide. dry.gif

Regards, Danny

Well, my many friends say I'm rather eclectic, but I don't mind :):):):)!

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Hi colleague:). What do you mean "UNpaid"?????!:blink::unsure::o .

I mean UNPAID because she's my wife!

But she DOES pay in another way - she's a great cook! :D

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No god...FSM Yes.

A giant mound of pasta created the universe, well.. it's just as trippy as walikng on water isn't it, or half the stuff in the bible

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A giant mound of pasta created the universe, well.. it's just as trippy as walikng on water isn't it, or half the stuff in the bible

Hi Catherine96,

If you are refering to Jesus walking on water i can help you there, as a fisherman his deciples would have used corn for fish bait, and if you use corn flower in enough quantity you can virtualy walk on water with it because it is a Non Newtonian Fluid that allows you to walk on it without sinking.

This proved a problem after he was crucified as the holes in his feet would leak the fluid through, this was remedied by the use of chewing gum though.

Another Bible Story Clarfied by BIGDAN. ;):slapface::lol:

Regards, Danny

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Hold on, Silver Rider, and think about exactly WHY these families are "forced onto welfare".

Let's begin: Sincere and responsible people don't have sex before marriage, because they know their actions could result in a pregnancy and then they might have to raise the child as a single-parent, which is always difficult on the child.

When a sincere and responsible couple decides to have children, they decide to get married first .

Then, knowing that staying together is always best for the family, they remain faithful to each other, which drastically reduces the probability of divorce - which always ends up damaging the children emotionally and economically, whether we want to admit it or not.

The best way to remain faithful to one's spouse is to take good care of him and the children, which means most (if not all) married women should not work outside the home, even if they are forced onto welfare to remain at home.

Be honest and admit the basic problem: wives and mothers have changed and no longer wish to remain faithful and/or remain at home. Husbands have changed and no longer want a "dependent wife" - they want the extra income.

So, what happens is that all the world wants to "go to work" to produce billions and billions of widgets and whatnots and whatevers, polluting the world so that everybody can stay busy being miserable.

Sorry, but all this craziness has got to stop somewhere, somehow, sometime - and it stops when we stop our selfish desires for ego-satisfaction - which is really what most people are looking for nowadays.

I don't get it. On one hand you say that "sincere and responsible people" don't have sex before marriage, don't have children before they are married and remain faithful to each other. And then right after that you say that these same "sincere and responsible" people should go on welfare so that the wife can stay home.

How is that being "sincere and responsible"?

Why is it my responsibility to take care of someone else with my tax dollars? Being on welfare IS selfish if you are able bodied and have other options.

None of this has anything to do with the topic, but being a welfare abuser isn't 'intelligent' and is taking a 'chance' that you will never be in control of your own life.

Respectfully,

Brad

Hi Spider,

Over here in the UK i think people know only too well what Benefits having a baby can bring, Dont need to sign on, Dont need to Work, Free House/Flat, Free Perscriptions and Dental Care, easier that doing it the Right Way. ;)

As far as i'm concerned if you cant aford to have a baby then the Government should either place the financial burden on the Mothers Family or take the baby away and give it to someone who can, not allow you to profit from acting irresponcibly, just my thoughts you understand?

Regards, Danny

Brad and Danny and others, you all make some really important issues clear here.

In the past, parishes (connected to religions) were given the responsibility for providing welfare payments to the poor, elderly, orphans, widows, and the disabled ... and with their distributions the abusive welfare takers were usually given advice on how they could improve their condition (and society's, too). Those who had children outside of marriage (especially ones who repeatedly give birth to children with different fathers) were given lectures on morality and made to feel guilty.

You all are right, this just isn't happening anymore, and has given rise to incredible - and seemingly unstoppable - egoism like this:

Police: Ohio woman choked Walmart greeter, 71

"ELYRIA, Ohio—Police say a pregnant woman and her mother were arrested after the older woman choked a 71-year-old Walmart greeter while leaving the store.

Elyria (eh-LEER'-ee-uh) police say 49-year-old Toni Duncan, of Elyria, was asked to show a receipt Saturday and responded by pushing a cart into the greeter, grabbing his throat and choking him. She was charged with assault.

Her daughter, 21-year-old Ashley Jackson, of Elyria, was charged with aggravated menacing and inducing panic. The (Lorain) Morning Journal reports that she's accused of saying she would blow up the store and that the greeter would be dead when her boyfriend learned of the incident.

Both face a court appearance Wednesday. No attorney for either was listed in court records, and no working phone number was found for either."

Two Ohio women were arrested after allegedly choking a Walmart greeter and making bomb threats against the store

"... Both women yelled obscenities at him while Duncan pushed a shopping cart into the (71 year old) man, began choking him and threatened to punch him in the face, authorities said. ... Because Jackson was pregnant and the women had two small children with them, they were released on a court summons instead of being booked into jail, police said."

Seems to me the only way to stop this craziness in our societies is by returning to a strict moral code, similar to that of the Amish, with familial and societal responsibilities.

Sending women like the ones above to work while their kids grow up in a day-care-zoo would probably improve the situation somewhat, but the women would probably keep producing more out-of-wedlock children and those kids would still grow up like animals, so the root cause of the whole problematic situation would not be cured.

Danny, you make a good point about the Mother's family, remember back when parents felt embarrassed and humiliated if their daughter had a child out-of-wedlock? Young people today are accustomed to thinking that living together is just fine - "why, if the future king and queen of England did it for years and years, what can be the problem with it" - but when I was growing up in the 70's it was considered scandalous because people knew that it would lead to irresponsibility and the breakdown of the family and the society.

Edited by sweetredwine

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Hold on, Silver Rider, and think about exactly WHY these families are "forced onto welfare".

Let's begin: Sincere and responsible people don't have sex before marriage, because they know their actions could result in a pregnancy and then they might have to raise the child as a single-parent, which is always difficult on the child.

When a sincere and responsible couple decides to have children, they decide to get married first .

There are many ways to prevent a pregnancy. Sex doesn't necessarily equal reproduction. It's NOT inevitable.

Maybe a guy and his girl just wanna have fun and enjoy each other instead of having kids.

That sounds okay, PertetualMotion ;) , but that's the catch :drunk:

to say that "sex outside of marriage is okay" - in a world where that action (sex) produces children - is to promote irresponsibility.

When single people "just wanna have fun and enjoy each other" they should be limit themselves to non-sexual activities, because otherwise you begin to have sad-and-lonely-children-born-out-of-wedlock, adultery increases, sexually transmitted diseases proliferate, separations and divorces increase (once one is accustomed to the thrill of "changing partners", it's hard to stop the habit), mental and emotional illnesses escalate, welfare costs skyrocket, and in the end ...

who do you think is gonna pay for all this mess? :ahhh:

Edited by sweetredwine

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Sincere and responsible people don't have sex before marriage

Your po-faced judgementalism really is beginning to grate.

I have always considered myself 'sincere and responsible'. But I had sex before marriage. Lots of it. And it was good.

When I met my totally non-religious ex-wife, we realised within 3 months that we wanted to marry. It was a given, and there was therefore no hurry. Three years later, we were ready - we'd bought a house, saved some money, but then she was struck down with ME / CFS, and ended up bedridden for a year. During that time, I looked after her tirelessly and without complaint. Her father, tosser that he was, even said at one point that he couldn't understand how or why I was 'standing by her', because he wouldn't be prepared to. Simple, asshole - it never occurred to me not to stand by her, because I LOVE her, and I'm sincere and responsible.

To cut a long story short, after trying many different remedies, she was eventually 'healed' via a 'christian minister' who was visiting from Africa. How? Because 'the lord' gave her 'a new brain and muscles'. No, really. So, having benefited from this softly-spoken magic spell, she recovered, and three months later we married.

The only problem was that there were now three people in our relationship - we two, and god. And by 'god', I don't just mean the concept, but also the poisonous infrastructure and twisted doctrine propagated by his supposed earthly representatives. For example, after four years sharing a common interest in rock music, she then proceeded to beat me up about it, told me I should stop listening to it, and followed me around the house with a bible in her hand, saying 'Get thee behind me, satan'. I assumed she would eventually tone it all down, but no, it got worse, much worse. In particular, she refused to allow me any input into decisions concerning the upbringing of our kids (conceived within wedlock, btw), and she put more effort into worshipping her god than interacting positively with her husband. Every night, after the kids were in bed, she'd disappear for two hours to read her bible and pray for all the world's problems, not least that I might be 'saved'.

In the end, I pointed out a few home truths, and that was that - I was out. Evicted from my own home, torn apart from my very young kids, all because of her religious monomania and consequent belief in the rectitude of all her decisions. She then tried to stop me seeing the kids at all, repeatedly lying in court, including accusing me of having a sexual interest in my own sons. Needless to say, she failed, and after three years of her putting our children through hell and causing me to blow $50k in legal fees, I ended up with joint custody.

So it's all very well for you to sit there and spew your BS about morality, Sweetredwine, but that's just words on a page. I suggest you get your head out of your ass and devote more effort to observing the real world. You might be pleasantly surprised at how many sincere and responsible secular people there are, married or not. Conversely, you might end up hanging your head in shame at the evil propagated by some of your 'brothers and sisters in christ'.

Good luck!

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Brad and Danny and others, you all make some really important issues clear here.

In the past, parishes (connected to religions) were given the responsibility for providing welfare payments to the poor, elderly, orphans, widows, and the disabled ... and with their distributions the abusive welfare takers were usually given advice on how they could improve their condition (and society's, too). Those who had children outside of marriage (especially ones who repeatedly give birth to children with different fathers) were given lectures on morality and made to feel guilty.

You all are right, this just isn't happening anymore, and has given rise to incredible - and seemingly unstoppable - egoism like this:

Police: Ohio woman choked Walmart greeter, 71

"ELYRIA, OhioPolice say a pregnant woman and her mother were arrested after the older woman choked a 71-year-old Walmart greeter while leaving the store.

Elyria (eh-LEER'-ee-uh) police say 49-year-old Toni Duncan, of Elyria, was asked to show a receipt Saturday and responded by pushing a cart into the greeter, grabbing his throat and choking him. She was charged with assault.

Her daughter, 21-year-old Ashley Jackson, of Elyria, was charged with aggravated menacing and inducing panic. The (Lorain) Morning Journal reports that she's accused of saying she would blow up the store and that the greeter would be dead when her boyfriend learned of the incident.

Both face a court appearance Wednesday. No attorney for either was listed in court records, and no working phone number was found for either."

Two Ohio women were arrested after allegedly choking a Walmart greeter and making bomb threats against the store

"... Both women yelled obscenities at him while Duncan pushed a shopping cart into the (71 year old) man, began choking him and threatened to punch him in the face, authorities said. ... Because Jackson was pregnant and the women had two small children with them, they were released on a court summons instead of being booked into jail, police said."

Seems to me the only way to stop this craziness in our societies is by returning to a strict moral code, similar to that of the Amish, with familial and societal responsibilities.

Sending women like the ones above to work while their kids grow up in a day-care-zoo would probably improve the situation somewhat, but the women would probably keep producing more out-of-wedlock children and those kids would still grow up like animals, so the root cause of the whole problematic situation would not be cured.

Danny, you make a good point about the Mother's family, remember back when parents felt embarrassed and humiliated if their daughter had a child out-of-wedlock? Young people today are accustomed to thinking that living together is just fine - "why, if the future king and queen of England did it for years and years, what can be the problem with it" - but when I was growing up in the 70's it was considered scandalous because people knew that it would lead to irresponsibility and the breakdown of the family and the society.

A good read......thanx very much :):). Methinx marriage and all that crap is destined to GO DOWN THE DRAIN fast because many people are seeing the traps and tribulations of marriage and after marriage. I mean, why do you have to sign a contract.......yes a CONTRACT B) !!......with your partner just to f**k in bed and have childrenand bring them up regularly??!:)B) . Marriage has lasted so long because of the issue of legit children......but now in times of DNA screening, etc., very few men can safely say they didn't copulate with a given woman and say the offspring was not theirs....get the point???! Religion, esp the Roman Catholic religion wil have to face the rage of technology (DNA tests) FAST :):):)

Edited by spidersandsnakes

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Your po-faced judgementalism really is beginning to grate.

I have always considered myself 'sincere and responsible'. But I had sex before marriage. Lots of it. And it was good.

When I met my totally non-religious ex-wife, we realised within 3 months that we wanted to marry. It was a given, and there was therefore no hurry. Three years later, we were ready - we'd bought a house, saved some money, but then she was struck down with ME / CFS, and ended up bedridden for a year. During that time, I looked after her tirelessly and without complaint. Her father, tosser that he was, even said at one point that he couldn't understand how or why I was 'standing by her', because he wouldn't be prepared to. Simple, asshole - it never occurred to me not to stand by her, because I LOVE her, and I'm sincere and responsible.

To cut a long story short, after trying many different remedies, she was eventually 'healed' via a 'christian minister' who was visiting from Africa. How? Because 'the lord' gave her 'a new brain and muscles'. No, really. So, having benefited from this softly-spoken magic spell, she recovered, and three months later we married.

The only problem was that there were now three people in our relationship - we two, and god. And by 'god', I don't just mean the concept, but also the poisonous infrastructure and twisted doctrine propagated by his supposed earthly representatives. For example, after four years sharing a common interest in rock music, she then proceeded to beat me up about it, told me I should stop listening to it, and followed me around the house with a bible in her hand, saying 'Get thee behind me, satan'. I assumed she would eventually tone it all down, but no, it got worse, much worse. In particular, she refused to allow me any input into decisions concerning the upbringing of our kids (conceived within wedlock, btw), and she put more effort into worshipping her god than interacting positively with her husband. Every night, after the kids were in bed, she'd disappear for two hours to read her bible and pray for all the world's problems, not least that I might be 'saved'.

In the end, I pointed out a few home truths, and that was that - I was out. Evicted from my own home, torn apart from my very young kids, all because of her religious monomania and consequent belief in the rectitude of all her decisions. She then tried to stop me seeing the kids at all, repeatedly lying in court, including accusing me of having a sexual interest in my own sons. Needless to say, she failed, and after three years of her putting our children through hell and causing me to blow $50k in legal fees, I ended up with joint custody.

So it's all very well for you to sit there and spew your BS about morality, Sweetredwine, but that's just words on a page. I suggest you get your head out of your ass and devote more effort to observing the real world. You might be pleasantly surprised at how many sincere and responsible secular people there are, married or not. Conversely, you might end up hanging your head in shame at the evil propagated by some of your 'brothers and sisters in christ'.

Good luck!

Dear bouillon, evidently your wife wasn't an Amish sister in Christ because "in our churches the marriage vows are taken very seriously, and are considered a lifetime commitment. If we listen carefully to the words of the marriage ceremony and to the vows which are exchanged, we find it inconceivable that any provision can be made for divorce and remarriage. I do not believe our churches could have survived and maintained their separation from the world over the centuries were it not that we have taken the marriage vows so seriously and literally. We believe reconciliation is the key word to solving marital problems. As long as remarriage remains an option, reconciliation does not get a fair trial. (David Wagler)"

(from The Amish Speak)

I'm not sure about the Amish, but up until 1922 a Christian wife would have given you these vows (or something very similar): "I,_____, take thee,_____, to be my lawful wedded Husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, and cherish, and to obey, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I give thee my troth."

If your wife would have been an Amish or traditional Christian, your relationship would have probably worked out better (or maybe at least you wouldn't have been evicted from your own home and separated from your children so easily).

But - that's certainly not saying all would have been "wedded bliss". Marriage is never easy, but with "relaxed" guidelines it often becomes total misery.

As far as sex before marriage, of course that does happen quite often, but Christians call it a sin and sins should be avoided because they can be very destructive to ourselves, others, our society, civillization, etc.

Sorry that you think I've got my head in my ass and am spewing BS about morality, but if you're looking for a possible future that has a future - that is truly sustainable, organized, produces sane and healthy children and societies, doesn't create massive debt or pollute our world - open your eyes and you'll see that the Amish (or something similar) are much closer to a better reality than the one most of us sincere and responsible ^_^ people are currently living in. B)

Edited by sweetredwine

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I'm not sure about the Amish, but up until 1922 a Christian wife would have given you these vows (or something very similar): "I,_____, take thee,_____, to be my lawful wedded Husband, to have and to hold from this day forward, for better for worse, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love, and cherish, and to obey, till death us do part, according to God's holy ordinance; and thereto I give thee my troth."

As I recall, those were the vows. I think she even threw in the 'obey' bit, although I would never have wanted or expected her to obey me.

If your wife would NOT have been an Amish or traditional Christian, your relationship would have probably worked out better

Fixed that for ya.

Christianity is christianity, period. You can't hide behind a name and claim that your brand is better than anyone else's. You are all equally deluded.

Moreover, if anything, you appear to be even more judgemental than my ex-wife. And that takes some doing. Congratulations! :notworthy:

Sorry that you think I've got my head in my ass and am spewing BS about morality, but if you're looking for a possible future that has a future - that is truly sustainable, organized, produces sane and healthy children and societies, doesn't create massive debt or pollute our world - open your eyes and you'll see that the Amish (or something similar) are much closer to a better reality than the one most of us sincere and responsible ^_^ people are currently living in.

Yup - a world full of draconian judgementalism and bigotry. Sounds good to me :whistling:

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funny.........was just discussing this last night

over many a beer and shots of jim beam

ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

B)

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As I recall, those were the vows. I think she even threw in the 'obey' bit, although I would never have wanted or expected her to obey me.

Fixed that for ya.

Christianity is christianity, period. You can't hide behind a name and claim that your brand is better than anyone else's. You are all equally deluded.

Moreover, if anything, you appear to be even more judgemental than my ex-wife. And that takes some doing. Congratulations! :notworthy:

Yup - a world full of draconian judgementalism and bigotry. Sounds good to me :whistling:

Well, what's your idea of a better world (while still remaining on this planet) ... do have any examples? Epicurus? ;)

Edited by sweetredwine

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A good read......thanx very much :):). Methinx marriage and all that crap is destined to GO DOWN THE DRAIN fast ...

... or mayibe ... down the toliets ... but must it be - all of them? ... :unsure:

Edited by sweetredwine

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A good read......thanx very much :):). Methinx marriage and all that crap is destined to GO DOWN THE DRAIN fast because many people are seeing the traps and tribulations of marriage and after marriage. I mean, why do you have to sign a contract.......yes a CONTRACT B) !!......with your partner just to f**k in bed and have childrenand bring them up regularly??!:)B) . Marriage has lasted so long because of the issue of legit children......but now in times of DNA screening, etc., very few men can safely say they didn't copulate with a given woman and say the offspring was not theirs....get the point???! Religion, esp the Roman Catholic religion wil have to face the rage of technology (DNA tests) FAST :):):)

Regardless of that, a relationship characterized by fidelity as if the Divine had intervened will still be the main show whichever way you slice it, temptations and all, because you have a higher level of trust; sometimes that kind of relationship stands firm as if an angel is watching over it. Because all flesh is eventually consumed and turned to dust, in the end you have only soul and whatever dwells within it, good or bad. Besides, in Islamic and Judaic traditions they have taken several wives many times over, and it all eventually boils down to one. Amazing how that works. Or as someone once said, Valhalla, I am coming.

Edited by Silver Rider

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sweetredwine, so you think the amish way is the best option for humanity?

guess you better throw away your computer.

not too sure about sweet red wine, either.

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sweetredwine, so you think the Amish way is the best option for humanity?

let's hear your best option, slave to zep

guess you better throw away your computer.

The Amish are aware of many dangers on the internet that most of us take for granted, and limit its usage - sounds like a good idea to me.

not too sure about sweet red wine, either.

We all need to open up, be honest, love - and constantly examine our motives for being on this planet, Slave to Zep. Like (similar or comparable to) ourselves, it's definitely not the best place, nor can it ever be, yet there is always room for improvement.

Edited by sweetredwine

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