Mothership

[mrkelp]

While shopping at my local Target this weekend, I picked up Mothership, put it back, picked it up, put it back, picked up, put it back, I just couldn't decide if it was worth buying, having already bought the CD's from the previous remastering. I've seen people go both ways on this. Some say the new remaster is yet another direction for the music, while others say it's much more compressed, lacking the clarity of the previous masters. Having been a mastering engineer in my previous employment life, I can appreciate multiple remasters of the same material, if it really does bring a new angle to the music. But I"m still hestant to buy Mothership. I have to save my schekles for TSRTS.

Any opinions on the sound of the CD? And if it really is an improvement, is it enough to warrant another round of re-releases?

[mightyzep247]

I was wondering the same thing.

[Del Nileppez]

Hey Jimmy..."how many more times" are you going to sell the same old stuff...over and over. The only thing I`m "laying down my money" for is the new TSRTS CD and DVD tomorrow right after work.

[paiste2002]

I bought a copy and only did so because I found the 2 Cd 1 DVD edition for $13.99. After listening all

day I find that some tracks are a real revelation while others are or sound to these ears to be nothing new. The set opener Good Times Bad Times, oh does Bonzo sound incredible or what! But! Wait until you hear When the Levee Breaks, that thunderous ground breaking intro of Bonzo's, the drum pattern that launched a 1000 drummers sounds huge! Whereas Cd 2 opener The Song Remains the Same sounds as it always has to me, nothing new here.

[Janine3132]

Don't waste your money om Mothership unless you are a collector and have to have it.

John Davis has basically just compressed most of th tracks and bumped the levels up.

At first listen it sounds better because its in your face and louder (which actually might be better

for those volume capped ipods/mp3 players since you can never get any decent volume from those)

but if you examine the waveforms the peaks are through the roof. I'm surprised there isn't

digital clipping with the levels so high on some of the tracks. You lose a lot fo the nuances

(as in definition #3 -

Main Entry: nu·ance- Function: noun

Pronunciation: 'nü-"än(t)s, 'nyü-, -"ä n s; nu-', nyu-'

Etymology: French, from Middle French, shade of color, from nuer to make shades of color, from nue cloud, from Latin nubes; perhaps akin to Welsh nudd mist

3 : sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)

especially on the acoustic tracks.

Louder does not = better when music is compressed beyond its natural sound.

On the other hand if you have a cheap boom-box of a crappy car stereo and don't care

about losing the subtleties of the music and just want something to piss of the neighbors

with then Mothership is an excellent choice.

However, Zeppelin's music is too good not to

listen for every bit of light and shade that it was created with.

I want to hear Bonzo's cymbals and Robert's vocal breathing and Jimmy's

fingers sliding delicately down the fretboard.

The DVD that comes with the collector's edition is nothing new. Just a re-hash

best of from the Live DVD in '03.

Hope this helps sweety-

Janine

[wabana]

Louder does not = better when music is compressed beyond its natural sound.

On the other hand if you have a cheap boom-box of a crappy car stereo and don't care

about losing the subtleties of the music and just want something to piss of the neighbors

with then Mothership is an excellent choice.

Hope this helps sweety-

Janine

[SIBLY]

I've been thinking about subscribing to the English music magazine for some time so when I opened the last issue to find they were giving Mothership away to all new subscribers I jumped at it. I doubt I'd have bought it otherwise.

[guitarmy]

...

the highs are clipped and the lows are unnaturally high, it's not a true representation of the music at all, and isn't that what Page always says he strives for?

a wasted opportunity and a real sell-out as far as Im concerned.

I already hear cries from the faithful!

"How dare you shout sell-out! This is Led Zeppelin!"

Well, if selling-out means going against your principles in order to satisfy the market, then this Mothership mastering is most definitely a sell-out.

shame.

I haven't heard the "new" Mothership CD yet so I can't judge how altered the representation is.

I also already have all the songs on the CD, as someone else mentioned, so I was at first reluctant of purchasing the new releases (Mothership and TSRTS).

However, with the current state of Led Zeppelin being a one-off show overseas (I'm in the states), in a venue too small for everyone to enjoy (O2 has 10k capacity), I have decided to support the group in any reasonable way possible. This includes my buying both the CD and DVD versions of Mothership and TSRTS.

So eventually the hope is that Led Zeppelin will do more shows and even create new material. My purchasing of the Mothership and TSRTS is just a way to prove interest on this side of the pond.

...

As for the sell-out comments, why shouldn't they? It's debatable whether or not this is actually a sell-out as you claim, but I would be ok with it either way.

The reason is that if any band deserves to basically just ask me to hand them over my money for no apparent reason, then it would be Led Zeppelin. Good for them!

But think of the new audiences that will be exposed to Led Zeppelin. Sure we had the Early/Latter days compilations before, but now, some kid who never heard of Led Zeppelin can pick up a copy the band's handpicked self-defining works and get a taste of some really great music.

It's also very significant that the tracks span the entire catalogue of Led Zeppelin's work. If you like a song on Mothership and if you want more from the same grain (album) then you buy the album too.

So what could be a huge marketing scheme to get you and others to buy albums, could also just be a mechanism to generate current interest in the band. Of course you could even argue that the new interest will just generate even more sales, which just makes them even more of a sell-out.

But I think what's going on here is a lot more pure. I kind of view it as the return of something special. I'd even as far to say to compare the Led Zeppelin return to the one found in the Odyssey. Led Zeppelin has returned home to the rock stage and is now going to kick some ***. Led Zeppelin has always brought quality, and the many other "suitors" of Rock and Roll have spoiled it in many senses.

Perhaps they're trying to pole the current interest of support based on these releases. We saw this with "How the West Was Won" and the "Led Zeppelin DVD" released at the same time.

Led Zeppelin has its die hard fans that will buy anything with their name on it (or anything without their name on it in the case of "IV"). I'm sure that a lot of those people are on this site, and Led Zeppelin already knows they have support from them. There are other people then, the ones whose minds are up for grabs, that need to be gauged, and putting out a "best-of" album is a method of doing that.

If I am correct, you don't just jump into a full-on reunion without testing the waters.

But the water hasn't even been tested yet (O2 concert) and we can already tell that it's "HOT".

[GetTheLedOut]

I agree with those who say that the set is unnecessary for those who already have those songs. It just sounds slightly louder with minimal or no adjustments. I do like the packaging though, very White Stripes.

[MRCROWLEY]

Hey Jimmy..."how many more times" are you going to sell the same old stuff...over and over. The only thing I`m "laying down my money" for is the new TSRTS CD and DVD tomorrow right after work.

That was a good one . Just picked the SRTS DVD about two hours ago. The dvd was not in the store yet and the UPS truck pulled up with it before I left. The manager is going to give me the entire cd dvd display. So I cannot go wrong buying it. I was getting in my vehicle and guess what was on the radio.....back to back Zepp tracks and Rock 96 in NC is going to play the entire A TO Z Zeppelin catalog on Dec . 10th , pretty cool.

[ElectrickMagick]

I like the remastered stuff, but that's probably because I listen to almost everything on my I-pod anymore. It' certainly louder, and the bass and drums are a bit higher in the mix.

If you are an established Zep fan this release wasn't for you anyways, it was for the people who listen to music almost exclusively on their computers or I-pods.

Every fifteen years or so the band has to do a release like this, with lots of hype, to reintroduce themselves to the kiddos. Wouldn't it be horrible if a whole generation grew up Zep-deprived?

[wabana]

ladies and gents, I have no problem with the new compilation. Let's hope it opens up the band's music to new fans; and I've no problem with a re-edit of TSRTS (although some of the edits are still jarring, and the new mix relies too much on different processing for my tastes) the film's audio definitely needed a remix.

I have a problem with Jimmy allowing the audio on the new compilation to be compromised by making it louder than possible without digital distortion and clipping of the original audio signals in order to fit in with the current fashion in popular music.

Would you be happy to lose some of the original audio from those songs? Because that's what just happened. It may not be glaringly obvious to you, but there's musical information now missing on those songs. That's a crime.

I call Jimmy a sell-out because he's gone along with this current trend, while other artists balk at the thought of losing audio from their songs, and refuse to go along with it (after all, a cd is going to last longer than a fashion trend) - why didn't Jimmy? He always said the band's music was without compromise didn't he?

Check out Bob Weston (Steve Albini's friend, bandmate and studio colleague) who's written an excellent essay on his website about loudness in mastering. It's a real eye opener.

http://www.chicagomasteringservice.com/loudness.html

[GetTheLedOut]

I have a problem with Jimmy allowing the audio on the new compilation to be compromised by making it louder than possible without digital distortion and clipping of the original audio signals in order to fit in with the current fashion in popular music.

Well that's just the reality of the situation. Jimmy should not be scrutinized for putting his band's music on a format which will reach more people, even if that means that some sound is lost.

Check out Bob Weston (Steve Albini's friend, bandmate and studio colleague) who's written an excellent essay on his website about loudness in mastering. It's a real eye opener.

Anyone musically connected with Steve Albini should not be trusted when it comes to sound quality, as any Albini produced album can attest to.

[songbird]

I don't mean to sound nasty, but I personally think that this Mothership is pointless. Even though it can be justified, I have always had a reeally hard time understanding why they even did those first remasters, when Zep was all about wanting people to hear each album in their proper order, thus were reluctant to release singles, and all that. So yet ANOTHER remaster really boggles my mind. Money grab? I don't know, I can't say that. But I won't be buying it. TSRTS, on the other hand... hells yeah!!

[GetTheLedOut]

I don't mean to sound nasty, but I personally think that this Mothership is pointless. Even though it can be justified, I have always had a reeally hard time understanding why they even did those first remasters, when Zep was all about wanting people to hear each album in their proper order, thus were reluctant to release singles, and all that. So yet ANOTHER remaster really boggles my mind. Money grab? I don't know, I can't say that. But I won't be buying it. TSRTS, on the other hand... hells yeah!!

That's the attitude of a lot of people here. But if you hadn't yet purchased any Zep and wanted a sampler, it works beautifully.

[SIBLY]

I've yet to hear of Pagey walking up Main Street USA forcing people into CD Stores at gun point to buy Mothership. If you don't like it don't buy it. My personal opinion was that I didn't need to pay for it (I don't have Early/Latter Days either) but I found a way to get it for free. I'll save my opinion of the Remaster until I've heard it. But, if I don't like it I'll still have the originals anyway.

This is a review from Uncut Magazine - I hope it's OK to post it. When I read this I got excited about hearing it. Bet you do too! Then I got suicidal all over again because I aint got a ticket for O2.

http://www.uncut.co.uk/music/led_zeppelin/reviews/10594

the pilgrimage to London’s O2 arena on 26 November, it may not have escaped their notice that the reunited, hot-ticket, must-see Zep are about to attempt something truly precarious. Never mind Valhalla, consider Guernica. Watched by 20,000 people, three men aged 63, 61 and 59 will endeavour to lend the requisite fury and intensity to songs that are now closer historically to the Spanish Civil War than to 2007. Should they succeed, the former Millennium Dome may levitate, belch smoke and disappear through a hole in time and space, as many often wished it would.

Those of us, meanwhile, who’ll be at home grooving to the 2CD compilation Mothership: The Very Best Of Led Zeppelin can reflect on (a) the ineffable properties of this piledriving rock/blues/folk hybrid, which survived backlashes and critical assassination attempts to achieve lasting honour and respect; and ( the scientific phenomenon that is Zep’s Law, whereby the more music we investigate and enjoy in our lives –from The Fall to Carla Bley to Grizzly Bear – the sweeter Led Zeppelin sound on our return. We might also apply the Kashmir Formula, which states, if you recall, that the cosine of ZoSo divided by the hypotenuse is equal to the endorphin rush of John Bonham’s bass drum multiplied by ‘y’ where Jonesy is ‘x’. They clearly used some form of black magic, if you ask me.

I’ve been playing the eight Zeppelin studio albums (1968–79) almost on a weekly basis ever since the mid–’90s, when an HMV sale of their remastered CDs tempted me back to the supergroup I’d adored as a boy (and abandoned in my angst-ridden late teens). Thousands of others, be they intrepid or furtive, rediscovered Zeppelin via those ’90s reissues, no longer ashamed of Robert Plant’s lemon-squeezing antics or embarrassed by “Stairway To Heaven” (well, not by all of it).

Instead, they experienced the thrill of liberation as they cranked up Led Zeppelin IV and Physical Graffiti, excitedly re-familiarising their brains with Zep’s exotic voyages, air-pummelling dynamics, staggering hammerhead percussion and complete lack of neurosis, bashfulness or irony. How exciting “Black Dog” seemed; how obsolete seemed post-punk, anti-muso, PC dogma. If you have bustle issues in your hedgerow, any counsellor will tell you that denial only exacerbates your stress map. BAM! BAM! went those speakers again, and “Good Times Bad Times” kicked the door down and shrieked wakey-wakey.

In more recent years Zeppelin’s legacy, under Jimmy Page’s watchful jurisdiction, has been well served by a superb live album, How The West Was Won (recorded in 1972), and by the self-explanatory DVD. Rumours persist that Page has overseen stunning new remasters of all the classic Zep albums, and these will be mandatory acquisitions when they materialise (presumably in 2008) for those who wish to hear Zep at their heaviest, deepest, softest and crispest. In the meantime, Mothership – 24 songs on two CDs, remastered to perfection – gives us an insight into how devastating this arcane, courageous, frontierless, much-loved, much-feared music from so many worlds ago can still sound.

Straight to the point, Mothership is the Zep album I’ll be playing relentlessly from now on. Without dwelling too much on the audiophile aspects, because remastering isn’t an obsession with everybody, a significant increase in power and clarity is instantly apparent, particularly on headphones, making almost every track a revelation for anybody who wants to listen. You might find yourself squinting hard at the tracklisting, growing testy, unable to wait for “Immigrant Song” or the echo-swamped parts of “Heartbreaker”, desperate to find out precisely how huge the drums on “Rock And Roll” will sound (enormous: Bonham could literally be three drummers thundering away simultaneously).

For newcomers, or those whose requirement is simply a quintessential Zep comp featuring one heavy-rock landmark after another, it’s fair to say that Mothership, with “Communication Breakdown” at one end, and “Achilles Last Stand” and “In The Evening” at the other, will fulfil the criteria. The highlights on disc one alone (1968–1971) include a man playing guitar with a violin bow (“Dazed And Confused”), a woman confused by the jewellers’ opening hours in paradise (“Stairway To Heaven”), a drummer who sounds like a pair of synchronised wrecking balls attacking the gutted interior of a hotel (“When The Levee Breaks”), an invigorating dose of outdoor pursuits (“Babe I’m Gonna Leave You”, “Ramble On”) and a virile singer with a talent for simulating a female orgasm (“Whole Lotta Love”). At least we must assume he was simulating.

It’s not an esoteric selection by any means; don’t go looking for “Tangerine” or “The Battle Of Evermore”. Throughout disc two (1973–9), which could have illustrated Zep’s expansion into multiple styles and textures (for example, “The Rain Song” and much of Physical Graffiti), the preference is for more obvious, US-friendly tracks. There’s scope for a Mothership II that would focus on Zeppelin’s acoustic side, and on Eastern-influenced excursions like “Friends” and “Four Sticks”, which predated “Kashmir” (which is here, naturally) by some years.

Page must have his reasons for slanting Mothership towards razor riffs and electric mayhem. He’s usually the first to point out that Zep were a band of light and shade. Nevertheless, when they emerge from darkness at the O2 this month, the old campaigners will have one hell of an album to promote. Mothership may take the road most travelled, but the scenery is colossal.

DAVID CAVANAGH

[SIBLY]

PS I think 'selling out' would be to put one unreleased track on it so that we all had to buy it.

[Led Zeppelin Fan00]

There's something about a new Zep release, even if it's a very-best-of. I dig seeing the 2007 copyright and it reminds me of my teen years back in the 70's when I was buying the vinyl.

Not to mention I like the elevated sound.

My "II" cents...

[euro]

There's something about a new Zep release, even if it's a very-best-of. I dig seeing the 2007 copyright and it reminds me of my teen years back in the 70's when I was buying the vinyl.

Not to mention I like the elevated sound.

My "II" cents...

I bought it to rekindle that inner kid in me

[SunChild]

That's the attitude of a lot of people here. But if you hadn't yet purchased any Zep and wanted a sampler, it works beautifully.

Yeah... alot of this is about introducing the band to the next generation of fans. I mean, MySpace?

I was reading some online discussion of the TV commercial where it was clear kids didn't know the songs - it's been a long time (heh) since the Cadillac commercials made younger people go "what the f*** was that?"

Not to mention, getting into Zeppelin is kind of addictive... they'll get to other iterations eventually.

[kirchzep27]

I like it, the songs sound different enough to make it very interesting to me. Everything is louder on it yes, at first i thought it was mostly the bass and drums. I think the vocals react well to this remastering process, check out -kashmir. Yeah some of the edge and the pop of the snare drum is less. imo, at the mid volume, which is usually the sweet spot for most stereos, the music reacts too loud, but its a good listen at moderate levels.

Certain parts are tweaked to make it a good listen as well...intro to -nfbm, keys on -trampled and the strings on -kashmir. -stairway, babe im gonna leave you and no quarter almost seem to have a different pace and flow to me because of this compression/flattening out process. It sort of reminds me of the sound on -shining in the light.

[mrkelp]

Don't waste your money om Mothership unless you are a collector and have to have it.

John Davis has basically just compressed most of th tracks and bumped the levels up.

At first listen it sounds better because its in your face and louder (which actually might be better

for those volume capped ipods/mp3 players since you can never get any decent volume from those)

but if you examine the waveforms the peaks are through the roof. I'm surprised there isn't

digital clipping with the levels so high on some of the tracks. You lose a lot fo the nuances

(as in definition #3 -

Main Entry: nu·ance- Function: noun

Pronunciation: 'nü-"än(t)s, 'nyü-, -"ä n s; nu-', nyu-'

Etymology: French, from Middle French, shade of color, from nuer to make shades of color, from nue cloud, from Latin nubes; perhaps akin to Welsh nudd mist

3 : sensibility to, awareness of, or ability to express delicate shadings (as of meaning, feeling, or value)

especially on the acoustic tracks.

Louder does not = better when music is compressed beyond its natural sound.

On the other hand if you have a cheap boom-box of a crappy car stereo and don't care

about losing the subtleties of the music and just want something to piss of the neighbors

with then Mothership is an excellent choice.

However, Zeppelin's music is too good not to

listen for every bit of light and shade that it was created with.

I want to hear Bonzo's cymbals and Robert's vocal breathing and Jimmy's

fingers sliding delicately down the fretboard.

The DVD that comes with the collector's edition is nothing new. Just a re-hash

best of from the Live DVD in '03.

Hope this helps sweety-

Janine

Yes it does, it sounds like the perfect sounding disk to play outside on the boombox at a BBQ. There are times when less range is better I suppose............

[Soccerzubs]

I bought it anyway, haven't gotten around to listening to all the songs yet, but the album art and story are great, and for a fan you just have to get it, if you are skeptical about re-buying the same tracks just don't get it, have it for the sake of buying it.

[AS90]

I like it, Immigrant Song is almost face melting

[Aspensound]

While shopping at my local Target this weekend, I picked up Mothership, put it back, picked it up, put it back, picked up, put it back, I just couldn't decide if it was worth buying, having already bought the CD's from the previous remastering. I've seen people go both ways on this. Some say the new remaster is yet another direction for the music, while others say it's much more compressed, lacking the clarity of the previous masters. Having been a mastering engineer in my previous employment life, I can appreciate multiple remasters of the same material, if it really does bring a new angle to the music. But I"m still hestant to buy Mothership. I have to save my schekles for TSRTS.

Any opinions on the sound of the CD? And if it really is an improvement, is it enough to warrant another round of re-releases?

I can´t imagine why Jimmy and JP has compressed the master tapes. And are they?

Nor if there´s no space enough in CD format to put all the original frequencies (is it right word?) in it ?

I own all the records as LPs till Coda, and have few of them also in CDs,

and I think sound reproduction in LPs is more cozy than in digital format.

So if you can get all the albums in LPs (if you didn´t have them already) (and have turntable) nowadays, I suggest get it.