Tempe '77

[ledzepfilm]

Kashmir isn't too bad except for the intro when the band had no idea on what they were doing. Tempe is obviously the worst but it's not too bad when it's not at the shit mistakes, Percy is uneasy on vocals, but not to bad, JPJ and Bonham are good but a tad unsteady at times, but Pagey is our main problem here. Everyone looks over this show just because Page sucked so much, but hence that, it's not a bad show.

[Nutrocker]

I still say Page comes off sounding better than Plant in Tempe. Either way the fuckin' show probably should have been cancelled.

Here are a couple more bruising Tempe discussions:

[f2walsh]

Tempe is a rough show! This does not even compare to the great shows from LA and NYC that same year.

[NickZepp]

77 was just so damned inconsistent all year round for the band. Even though Robert's voice was much better than in 75 or 73.

Plant's voice in 73 started to crack a bunch, in fact at times in 73 it was much worse than at any time in 75 which says a lot because early in 75 or Plant was rough. But there's some shows in early 73 or maybe it was late 72 where he can't even sing at all in some of the songs.

But what makes up for his voice being bad at times during this period was that the rest of the band was so well practiced that it didn't matter. 75 is my favorite year because even on a bad night the band sounded amazing.

But 77 was just so inconsistent all year. There's some real quality shows all year but then there's some real bad ones. The recording quality probably makes Tempe worse than it is, but I don't know if a great quality show makes it any good.

Best shows from 77 IMO 04-28 Cleveland(much better than the SB from the previous night IMO)

05-21 Houston, 05-22 Ft Worth, anything from LA, and if you want July 77 it's 07-23 Oakland IMO. Even some of the SBs and more quality recordings(Millard recording from 06-19 for example) show how bad they played those nights more than anything. The NY shows aren't bad even though the quality of them that's out there isn't that great.

[ledpoison1]

What's that song playing on the background in the end of STH? I think it's kinda funny.

[Nutrocker]

What's that song playing on the background in the end of STH? I think it's kinda funny.

That is some beautiful tape bleed featuring "All Right Now" by Free and "Jumping Jack Flash" by the Stones! Some wits would probably say the tape bleed is the best part of the Tempe recording.

I actually circulated the personal remaster I did of the Tempe recording a couple years back (from a 1st gen copy a friend of mine sent me; I had to tweak and speed correct the 1st gen just to be able to listen to it)...it's done the circuits at all the usual places. Made the murky recording sound pretty good...maybe even too good- you can hear all the mistakes in all their glory LOL!

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

I actually circulated the personal remaster I did of the Tempe recording a couple years back (from a 1st gen copy a friend of mine sent me; I had to tweak and speed correct the 1st gen just to be able to listen to it)...it's done the circuits at all the usual places. Made the murky recording sound pretty good...maybe even too good- you can hear all the mistakes in all their glory LOL!

I'd like to get a hold of it!

[tmtomh]

Lots of good points here; and some of this stuff is totally subjective. But that said, here's my $.02:

- The band as a whole was much more consistent in '75 than '77. I think that's pretty much a fact.

- Plant's voice, however, was in much better shape during most of '77 than it was during most of '75. Also a fact.

- The really good '77 shows (4-28 Cleveland, 5-30 MD, June NYC and LA) typically contain one or two clunkers but otherwise are excellent. The combination of the old standbys, plus the material from Presence, plus Ten Years Gone, plus the acoustic set, makes for unique documents of their career. That said, I still think Seattle '77 sucks; except for the fact that it's so long, I don't see the fascination with this show.

- I'm really digging the '77 NYC and LA shows these days. But over the long haul I really like the '75 Earls Court shows. The band were very tight, and Plant's voice was in good form for the only time that year, and they had an acoustic set. And they were very relaxed on the final three nights because they were "in residence" rather than traveling around constantly. There are plenty of top-rate AUD, SBD, and video soundtrack sources, and of course lots of video too.

Oh - and one more thing: yes, Page was not at his best in '77 (and beyond). But let's not forget, he's always been a sloppy player. It's not hard to find a fair amount of slop even during some of the band's strongest periods (e.g. '73 Europe).

[Nutrocker]

Would this be the version where the 2nd para of the txt file starts off 'Of course, as the saying goes, you can't polish a turd' ??

Yep. That one's mine...I did that when I first got my copies of the "1st gen", slow playing Tempe discs from a friend a few years back. Had to tweak it with some EQ and whatnot and speed/pitch correct it just to be able to listen to the fucking thing. It's actually not that bad of a recording in the end, which is more than I can say for the performance- which, again, IMO isn't as bad as the hype makes it out to be. Which is why I decided to share it, I sorta thought the show needed a bit of a reappraisal. Based on the tapes, I don't think Tempe is "Zeppelin's Worst Concert" (but then, it's missing the first seven songs), for me that dubious honour belongs to something like Hannover '80...give me Plant with hardly any voice over Plant that clearly does not want to be playing the show at all (which is what really tarnishes Hannover for me and the '80 tour in general, actually).

[And You Know How It Is?]

It's actually not that bad of a recording in the end, which is more than I can say for the performance- which, again, IMO isn't as bad as the hype makes it out to be.

What is interesting to me, is that from everything I have read, the problem with this show boils down to 3 songs. Until the first 7 songs get released, all opinions are strong that this show started well, especially with the strong TSRTS opener. Acoustic set was low key, but I believe I read Jimmy tried to sneak in Dancing Days during BYRS, but Bonzo shook him off. I have heard Stairway, which isn't bad either. So, here are the 3 songs that bring this show down to the so-called "horrible" level:

Trampled Underfoot - bad Jimmy solo. Also the first time they played this song since the LA run of shows in June, as it wasn't played in Seattle

Kashmir - honestly don't know what Jimmy was thinking in not playing White Summer, then just a few bars of Black Mountainside, and starting into Kashmir without the rest of the band, and then they slowly join in. I haven't heard this, but would very much like to.

Achilles Last Stand - flashpots going off by Jimmy at the start of the song...who can blame him for being off?

[Nutrocker]

What is interesting to me, is that from everything I have read, the problem with this show boils down to 3 songs. Until the first 7 songs get released, all opinions are strong that this show started well, especially with the strong TSRTS opener. Acoustic set was low key, but I believe I read Jimmy tried to sneak in Dancing Days during BYRS, but Bonzo shook him off. I have heard Stairway, which isn't bad either. So, here are the 3 songs that bring this show down to the so-called "horrible" level:

Trampled Underfoot - bad Jimmy solo. Also the first time they played this song since the LA run of shows in June, as it wasn't played in Seattle

Kashmir - honestly don't know what Jimmy was thinking in not playing White Summer, then just a few bars of Black Mountainside, and starting into Kashmir without the rest of the band, and then they slowly join in. I haven't heard this, but would very much like to.

Achilles Last Stand - flashpots going off by Jimmy at the start of the song...who can blame him for being off?

Yer correct...the main problem with the acoustic set is that Plant's voice is shot- it's in much worse shape than in Seattle (for example, he doesn't go for any of the high notes in Going To California which makes it sound a little wonky).I've said it before: Robert comes off sounding much worse on the night than Page does. Page does go into "Dancing Days" during the Stomp, and as soon as Bonzo joins in Jimmy stops playing it! And his solo in TUF is indeed awful- no, they hadn't played it in nearly a month, but you'd think it'd be a tune they could play in their sleep. Jimmy's solo sounds like he was channeling Neil Young or something. I've no idea why he skipped White Summer, but Page probably would have made a total hash of it. Kashmir is alright once the band joins in. And though it's cut on the recording, the noise solo is still fifteen minutes long...ALS is a trainwreck because Jimmy got knocked on his ass by the flashpots, sure, but he bounces back nicely for Stairway. No encores. No drum solo, either.

IMO Tempe strikes me as being one of those '77 shows like Louisville where the band had to deal with a noisy, rowdy crowd and were probably distracted by it- I get the idea that even though the show started late Zeppelin just wanted to get the thing over with and get the hell outta Dodge (Tempe, in this case) as soon as possible. I'd kill to hear the first seven songs...either the opening set was fantastic or sloppy as hell (personally I'd be leaning towards sloppy, considering Page was apparently so far gone Plant had to control his effect pedals during OTHAFA)

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

I thought Trampled Underfoot was eh: longest '77 version though. Yeah Kashmir and especially Achilles Last Stand are complete trainwrecks.

[Nutrocker]

I thought Trampled Underfoot was eh: longest '77 version though. Yeah Kashmir and especially Achilles Last Stand are complete trainwrecks.

True, that is the longest '77 TUF (probably because Page got lost in that solo...it almost reminds me of the Berlin '80 version). "Kashmir" was alright once the whole band kicked in (let's face it, there are bigger "Kashmir trainwrecks" than Tempe), but, again, considering Jimmy was knocked on his ass by the flashpots at the beginning of ALS it's no surprise he was a little bit, pardon the expression, dazed and confused. And he bounced back nicely for "Stairway", at least...I want to say that's the longest 1977 STH, but I could be wrong (and can't really be arsed checking at the moment)

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

True, that is the longest '77 TUF (probably because Page got lost in that solo...it almost reminds me of the Berlin '80 version). "Kashmir" was alright once the whole band kicked in (let's face it, there are bigger "Kashmir trainwrecks" than Tempe), but, again, considering Jimmy was knocked on his ass by the flashpots at the beginning of ALS it's no surprise he was a little bit, pardon the expression, dazed and confused. And he bounced back nicely for "Stairway", at least...I want to say that's the longest 1977 STH, but I could be wrong (and can't really be arsed checking at the moment)

This is why I prefer the '75 versions of Trampled Underfoot. It's honestly one of my favorite Zeppelin songs. In 1975, it wasn't mundane and slow; it was very upbeat. Jones changed the intro a bit and it was a very, very good jam. '77 just is a little too slow for me; slower than the studio version even.

Now I don't know if they didn't want to jam on it like they did in '75 but personally, I think they should have permanently added it to the set, after Kashmir; since that's where I think it has the best placement. It was a cool '77 encore but IMO, it should have been permanently added after Kashmir. When it was after the acoustic set (like at Earl's Court), the show gained momentum again. However, in '77 when it was played after the acoustic set, the show slows back down again since White Summer/Black Mountain Side was added to the show for the first time in seven years.

[bamf4k]

I was so sad to find out that including the unique intro, Tempe goes on record for having the longest version of ALS, my favorite song.

[Nutrocker]

I was so sad to find out that including the unique intro, Tempe goes on record for having the longest version of ALS, my favorite song.

It may be the longest, but it by far the WORST, because Jimmy was knocked off his feet by the exploding flashpots at the beginning of the song and it threw him off from the rest of the band. You want a textbook definition of 'musical trainwreck'? The Tempe version of "Achilles Last Stand" is a good place to start; they sound like a bad high school Zeppelin tribute band!

[bamf4k]

It may be the longest, but it by far the WORST, because Jimmy was knocked off his feet by the exploding flashpots at the beginning of the song and it threw him off from the rest of the band. You want a textbook definition of 'musical trainwreck'? The Tempe version of "Achilles Last Stand" is a good place to start; they sound like a bad high school Zeppelin tribute band!

Oh well, on the opposite end of the spectrum, the Pontiac version is the second longest, and the best IMHO, though speaking of awful ALS performances, while it isn't nearly as messy, I find the version from 8/11/79 to be just as painful to listen to.

[jsj]

• can anyone pm me a link to tempe ALS? i've never heard it, only heard of it
  

[jsj]

thanks for the links.

i've listened to it a couple of times now, oh dear.

[bamf4k]

I feel a little weird saying this, but I kinda like the unique intro and slow to fast movement of ALS's opening on this version.

[Nutrocker]

I feel a little weird saying this, but I kinda like the unique intro and slow to fast movement of ALS's opening on this version.

Yer very forgiving, bamf4k

Based on that intro I reckon it would have been an iffy performance of ALS even if Jimmy hadn't been knocked on his ass...as it is he ends up lagging behind Jones, Plant and Bonham for the duration of the piece.

Note Plant's post song remark about 'castrating' the member of the crew who set off the flashpots I wonder what did happen to the guy, and if he made it to Oakland...

[bamf4k]

Yer very forgiving, bamf4k

Based on that intro I reckon it would have been an iffy performance of ALS even if Jimmy hadn't been knocked on his ass...as it is he ends up lagging behind Jones, Plant and Bonham for the duration of the piece.

Note Plant's post song remark about 'castrating' the member of the crew who set off the flashpots I wonder what did happen to the guy, and if he made it to Oakland...

Knowing Bonzo and Peter Grant, probably not.

[Daeron]

This is why I prefer the '75 versions of Trampled Underfoot. It's honestly one of my favorite Zeppelin songs. In 1975, it wasn't mundane and slow; it was very upbeat. Jones changed the intro a bit and it was a very, very good jam. '77 just is a little too slow for me; slower than the studio version even.

Now I don't know if they didn't want to jam on it like they did in '75 but personally, I think they should have permanently added it to the set, after Kashmir; since that's where I think it has the best placement. It was a cool '77 encore but IMO, it should have been permanently added after Kashmir. When it was after the acoustic set (like at Earl's Court), the show gained momentum again. However, in '77 when it was played after the acoustic set, the show slows back down again since White Summer/Black Mountain Side was added to the show for the first time in seven years.

I totally agree about adding Trampled Under Foot after Kashmir for the '77 tour. Building up momentum with Kashmir and then going straight into a drum solo is not a good idea. I think they should have alternated Trampled/Heartbreaker permanently, the same way they alternated Over The Hills/In My Time Of Dying.

[Nutrocker]

I totally agree about adding Trampled Under Foot after Kashmir for the '77 tour. Building up momentum with Kashmir and then going straight into a drum solo is not a good idea. I think they should have alternated Trampled/Heartbreaker permanently, the same way they alternated Over The Hills/In My Time Of Dying.

Personally, I'd go for this:

Kashmir

Trampled Under Foot

Drum Solo

Heartbreaker (or Over The Hills if it wasn't played in the first set)

Guitar Noise Solo

IMO going from the drum solo to Page's 'noise' solo is what really killed the momentum...they needed a tune in between to break those bits of tedium up. Also Page should have kept "White Summer/Black Mountain Side" down to five or six minutes at most, and the 'noise' solo never should have gone over ten minutes. Ditto for keeping Bonham's solo down to fifteen, twenty tops (thirty six minutes...WTF?! ) At least Jonesy kept his ivory tickling during "No Quarter" down to five minutes or so most nights.

Two things I've said before about the '77 tour in general:

- almost an hour per gig focused on meandering instrumental solos by Jones, Bonham and Page, respectively. Sure, those solo spots gave Robert a much needed break, but laser shows and pyro effects aside, you can only bore yer audience with guitar noise, pounding drums/tympani, piano recitals and sloppily played guitar pieces for so long before boredom sets in...

- I'm still convinced that post-Seattle they made a concious decision to scale back the length of the solo pieces, and eliminated Bonham's altogether (though they could have been a decision made on his own, and not as a band collective) Tempe being a bit of an exception- Page deliberately skipped "White Summer" (playing BMS for about 45 seconds instead) either because he knew the show was running late (they were very late taking the stage in the first place IIRC) or because he knew he wasn't up to it. That said, it would have been nice if he'd kept the rest of the band in the loop regarding that decision...

[Sagittarius Rising]

With the whole punk scene exploding at the time I just cannot understand why they put together such a bloated, final act to the set. They should have never played the noise solo, the drum solo, and in my opinion (please don't flame me) the whole Jones solo section of NQ. When it comes to NQ that song to me is pure atmosphere, brooding, and dark and the boogie section just killed it for me in particular. And if Jimmy really wanted a solo showcase he could have included a either a very edited WS/BMS during the outro to Going to Cali. Or how about a version of Spanish Blood! Imagine the songs they could have included had they taken that approach. WOW!!! What if, what if, what if.

Wish in one hand and shit in the other, see which one get's filled first.