Jump to content

In Through The Out Door


Recommended Posts

I've pulled out the old collection this weekend and have been listening to ITTOD for a few days. Overall I enjoy the album. The favorites are the obvious choices- In the Evening, Fool in the Rain, Carouselambra and All My Love. There are things about the album that I love and other things that disappoint me.

I like the fact that they were moving forward with change as each album in the past has represented. They were taking risk with direction and having fun on songs like Hot Dog (even though it's not a great tune). Plant's voice is in good form for the entire album. The drums have a great sound and Jonsey is in control of the keys. Very different from any other Zeppelin album as a whole. The songs that are good are really good.

The side that lets me down is the lack of Page's influence on the album (which was due to drug related problems) and personally I dont think it's Bonhams best set of recordings either. It sounds like he's not playing to his normal caliber or with as much intensity as the previous albums. He doesn't take many risk here with his ideas, (besides the cleverness of Fool in the Rain) but it's still enjoyable enough to listen too. Was Bonham also having addiction problems?? I believe I read somewhere that both he and Page were on heroine at this time. That could be a big reason for his performance as a whole. Lastly, I don't think the album song choices were well thought out (in my opinion). I think they would have made more of a statement putting Wearing and Tearing on the album instead of Hot Dog. Wearing would have been a great opener or more importantly a great closer. Punk was big at the time, so that would have fit the moment perfectly. I also enjoy Ozone Baby and Darlene which would have been more suitable that South Bound Suarez. I think those song choices would have made for a more solid album.

My favorite track on the album has got to be Carouselambra. It's a sign of where they could have gone next. It best represents the Zeppelin force and mystery. The lyrics are mindblowing and I believe Plant wrote them out of direct frustation to someone very close that he was at odds with at the time. - Could the lyrics have been directed towards Page????

Plant's lyrics, particularly in the first section of the song, are somewhat buried in the mix and are difficult to discern. According to an interview Plant gave in 1979, the song was about someone who, when one day realising the song was written about them, would say, "My God! Was it really like that?" Plant has also said that the lyrics are related to "The Battle of Evermore" with clues at the end where he sings "But guard the seed."

"Carouselambra"

Sisters of the way-side bide their time in quiet peace,

Await their place within the ring of calm;

Still stand to turn in seconds of release,

Await the call they know may never come.

In times of lightness, no intruder dared upon

To jeopardize the course, upset the run;

And all was joy and hands were raised toward the sun

As love in the halls of plenty overrun.

Still in their bliss unchallenged mighty feast,

Unending dances shadowed on the day.

Within their walls, their daunting formless keep,

Preserved their joy and kept their doubts at bay.

Faceless legions stood in readiness to weep,

Just turn a coin, bring order to the fray;

And everything is soon no sooner thought than deed,

But no one seemed to question in anyway.

How keen the storied hunter's eye prevails upon the land

To seek the unsuspecting and the weak;

And powerless the fabled sat, too smug to lift a hand

Toward the foe that threatened from the deep.

Who cares to dry the cheeks of those who saddened stand

Adrift upon a sea of futile speech?

And to fall to fate and make the 'status plan'

Where was your word, where did you go?

Where was your helping, where was your bow? Bow.

Dull is the armour, cold is the day.

Hard was the journey, dark was the way. Way.

I heard the word; I couldn't stay. Oh.

I couldn't stand it another day, another day,

Another day, another day.

Touched by the timely coming,

Roused from the keeper's sleep,

Release the grip, throw down the key.

Held now within the knowing,

Rest now within the peace.

Take of the fruit, but guard the seed.

They had to stay!

Held now within the knowing,

Rest now within the beat.

Take of the fruit, but guard the seed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A very honest and different approach to ITTOD. I liked reading your opinion of the album. I may not agree 100%, but that's what makes reading it great. Good write up.

I have always loved In the Evening, Fool in the Rain, and I'm Gonna Crawl the most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll take ITTOD any day over Presence. The major complaint that people have with ITTOD is 1) Page doesn't play enough guitar 2) it's keyboard dominated. My response to that is... so? Is guitar everything? I think Page's best playing during his whole career is on Presence but that doesn't save that album from not having their best material. ITTOD as a whole has better songs, including Hot Dog which works where Candy Store Rock doesn't (for myself at least) on Presence. I'll also take Carouselambra anyday over Achilles, or PG's In The Light (another of JPJ's keyboard oriented opus's) over Achilles, I just find them to be better as actual songs despite the great musicianship on Achilles. ITTOD gets a bad rap from certain Zep fans I believe because of musical snobbery due to the keyboard heaviness over guitar & that like parts of Houses Of The Holy it's a radio friendly accesible album. All I can say is listen to it with fresh ears, it's a great album. Led Zeppelin was a band, not just Jimmy Page which he'd be the first to admit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll take ITTOD any day over Presence. The major complaint that people have with ITTOD is 1) Page doesn't play enough guitar 2) it's keyboard dominated. My response to that is... so? Is guitar everything?

I think this is a good point. I have always loved some albums, and some songs, for different reasons. Some are for the riffs, others the drumming. There are songs where Plant's vocals draw me in and then JPJ's keyboards will hook me in a song right after that. I think it's all a matter of taste when it comes to the albums and someone's preference.

I think every band has an album that fans and critics alike are the hardest on. For Zeppelin, it's ITTOD. I don't love it, but I also don't hate it. It's hit or miss for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll take ITTOD any day over Presence. The major complaint that people have with ITTOD is 1) Page doesn't play enough guitar 2) it's keyboard dominated. My response to that is... so? Is guitar everything? I think Page's best playing during his whole career is on Presence but that doesn't save that album from not having their best material. ITTOD as a whole has better songs, including Hot Dog which works where Candy Store Rock doesn't (for myself at least) on Presence. I'll also take Carouselambra anyday over Achilles, or PG's In The Light (another of JPJ's keyboard oriented opus's) over Achilles, I just find them to be better as actual songs despite the great musicianship on Achilles. ITTOD gets a bad rap from certain Zep fans I believe because of musical snobbery due to the keyboard heaviness over guitar & that like parts of Houses Of The Holy it's a radio friendly accesible album. All I can say is listen to it with fresh ears, it's a great album. Led Zeppelin was a band, not just Jimmy Page which he'd be the first to admit.

Very well said, even if I don't see eye-to-eye with you on all of your points (mainly the fact that I love "Achilles Last Stand"). I think In Through the Out Door is one of Zeppelin's most varied and exciting albums to listen to. I've never understood all of the hate for it. Perhaps some newer fans have read all the criticisms about it from other fans first and arrive at their first listen with some pretty heavy baggage. That, I'm not sure of but I consider it to be one of Zeppelin's very finest moments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very well said, even if I don't see eye-to-eye with you on all of your points (mainly the fact that I love "Achilles Last Stand"). I think In Through the Out Door is one of Zeppelin's most varied and exciting albums to listen to. I've never understood all of the hate for it. Perhaps some newer fans have read all the criticisms about it from other fans first and arrive at their first listen with some pretty heavy baggage. That, I'm not sure of but I consider it to be one of Zeppelin's very finest moments.

I disagee with it being a finest moment, but I like the fact that you feel a way about something that I don't. It just goes to show that their music had something for nearly everyone. The album is hit and miss for me. I will never understand all the hate either, but I never consider it up there with my other favorites.

With that said, I still listen to it a lot and have grown to like the album more over the years. Sometimes, it's just what the listener likes.

I'm a big Houses of the Holy fan. I know Zeppelin fans who don't like it at all. People feel it's too light and fluffy. I find it to be a diverse album and one of their most daring and consistant. So, I will never insult someone for loving an album or song more or less than I do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very well said, even if I don't see eye-to-eye with you on all of your points (mainly the fact that I love "Achilles Last Stand"). I think In Through the Out Door is one of Zeppelin's most varied and exciting albums to listen to. I've never understood all of the hate for it. Perhaps some newer fans have read all the criticisms about it from other fans first and arrive at their first listen with some pretty heavy baggage. That, I'm not sure of but I consider it to be one of Zeppelin's very finest moments.

I'm a big fan of Achilles, I mainly pointed that song out as by many it is considered that last great epic Zeppelin song mainly due to Page's guitar playing, which I do find superb myself, yet I think Carouselambra is just as worthy lyrically ( probably even more as it's a veiled dig at Jimmy & others) & musically. Carouselambra is just as driven as Achilles, the main difference obviously is the guitar/keyboard debate which in 2011 is pretty silly. Here's another one: I'll definately take I'm Gonna Crawl over Tea For One, hands down. Tea For One has what I think is Page's all time best solo yet the song as a whole is not as good to my ears as I'm Gonna Crawl. Page is my all time favorite rock musician yet I can't just pick one area of a song, in Page's case his guitar playing, & say that's what makes the song as a whole. I'm Gonna Crawl in a way sounds sort of a toss away song as if it took no real effort to write & maybe I like it better for that very reason, it just seems perfect in it's effortlessness.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm also a pretty big fan of "Carouselambra" as it is just one of the tunes from that record that showed Zeppelin pushing forward and breaking new ground. I guess some fans would be content for them just to remake Led Zeppelin II over and over again but I'm not one of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I'd probably be viewed as heretic because LZ2 is my second least favorite of the studio albums.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to infer that it's a lesser album, just that it's one of their more straightforward rock n' roll efforts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I'd probably be viewed as heretic because LZ2 is my second least favorite of the studio albums.

To me, you're a Zeppelin fan who's honest to his taste in the bands' music.

I wouldn't mind knowing why it's near the bottom for you and what you would say is your least favorite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I'm aware, ITTOD is the only Zep album where the band members have expressed or implied any negativity towards the album. I think that tells you all you need to know.

Yes. Page is the main one who has gone on record saying it's not his favorite thing the band did. That doesn't mean people aren't allowed to like it. It's different strokes for different folks.

A lot of his dislike for it stems from not being very involved in the songs and overall creation of that album.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some interesting comments here. Glad to see the interest in this. The album has been in my player for a week now. I neither love it or hate it. It's not a bad album, but not their best work. Let's face it, there are some great tunes and some not so great tunes. I like the fact that they were still changing and taking risk. That's part of what makes them great. I personally have no problem with JPJ's dominance. Everything the guy plays is tasteful and not in anyway did he overkill. Plant's vocals and lyrics are very strong throughout. And yes, guitar may not be everything (as someone posted) but it is important if your talking about Led Zeppelin. To hear Page's lack of input on the majority of any Zep album is a downer for me...sorry. If your a great guitar player-you need to put out a statement. But his lack of expression and ideas was due to his addiction..that's the reality of it, like it or not. It's no secret.

I'd like to get more feedback on some of the other things I mentioned in the original topic post - like song choices, Plant's lyrics on Carouselambra (who are they directed toward) or John Bonham's performance (also affected by drugs)???

Wearing and Tearing was purposely recorded as their answer to punk at the time. To me, that would have been a powerful closer to the album. IMO that would have made for a more solid album, and it's also got a killer guitar riff, which most of the album lacks. I enjoy and appreciate all the comments. Wheather we agree or not, we are all Zeppelin fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As far as I'm aware, ITTOD is the only Zep album where the band members have expressed or implied any negativity towards the album. I think that tells you all you need to know.

Which would be what? I'm sure all of the members of Zep have been critical about certain aspects of all of their records, not just In Through the Out Door. Whatever those criticisms may be, it's not going to change my opinion of the albums.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love South Bound Saurez and hate Carouselambra. It huffs and puffs, but goes absolutely nowhere. Carouselambra is my least favourite Zep song.

I don't see that song that way at all, but I really appreciate your contribution to the post. Carouselambra goes far for me. It huffs and puffs alright, and goes throught three different transitions. It goes places that you wouldn't expect and it's one of the most unpredictable songs they ever wrote. The middle section around 4:25 is pure classic Zeppelin with a simple but monster riff (chords) by Page. You cannot deny the power there..at least for me-I get the goosebumps at this point, because it's the real deal.

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do like ITTOD and find it plays very well, 32 years later. However, my wife can't stop smirking when she hears the synth solo in All My Love. It's a rare segment of a Zep tune being truly dated by technology. Time might have been kinder to it had, say, a piano solo been played instead. Still a great song though. I find that ITTOD is an LP that I can put on that doesn't "disturb" other listeners as much as a heavy Zep LP can do. If that's lightweight then so be it. In a way, it's like a surreptitious sneaky way of getting people to listen to Zep without knowing it's Zep!

Anyway, I thought it should be restated that one thing about ITTOD is that, according to the band, it was an experiment, a departure from what went before, and so, had Zep continued, might have been seen as a particular chapter of a longer creative arc. They were finally back in a good place and were "on the up" as Jonesy has stated. And then it suddenly ended, just as a rebirth was occurring. A damned shame, I think we'll agree. But such is life. Other threads here have debated this a lot so I won't delve any further along this line.

Drums. One thing about ITTOD I'd have to say, that as a drummer myself, I'd not disparage Bonzo's drumming on ITTOD at all. His own style was developing into a more refined and efficient method, moving away from the crazed playing of his youth. A "less is more" kinda thing. He'd proved his chops long before, in the studio and certainly in concert.

Ian Paice of Deep Purple has said that his own style has simplified as he got older, not out of laziness but more as technical refinement. Creating even more space between beats instead of filling them up with showmanship - which is not necessarily a bad thing, I might add! Bonzo seemed to be heading in this direction, studio-wise. I think Bonzo's drumming throughout ITTOD is a masterclass of restraint and precision (perhaps excluding Hot Dog which has a simple rhythm that could be played by almost any drummer). He does play some tremendously precise beats, Fool in the Rain being a class example. It is not a simple as it sounds, believe me! Some of the rolls and fills on I'm Gonna Crawl are just beautiful. I don't know of many drummers who could make the straightforward 4/4 beats of In The Evening or Carouselambra as inventive, hypnotic and thrilling. That was Bonzo's magic.

Despite his lack of songwriting credits and the stylistic departures with keyboards and guitars, I think it's Bonzo's drumming that really cements the whole album together. Maybe I'm biased as a drummer, but no matter what you think about the whole album or the merits of the individual songs, it again shows how Bonzo's drums really were the foundation of Zep's sound. I think the other members have implied this enough over the years. I'm not debating the creative songwriting foundation, merely the actual sound and feel of the band.

Hmm, time to throw on ITTOD for my drive to university. One thing's for sure, Zep's great cruising music!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought it should be restated that one thing about ITTOD is that, according to the band, it was an experiment, a departure from what went before, and so, had Zep continued, might have been seen as a particular chapter of a longer creative arc. They were finally back in a good place and were "on the up" as Jonesy has stated. And then it suddenly ended.

That's how I feel about the album. It might be a little rough and dated at times, but it was Zeppelin trying new things and probably showed that they were going to be a different band going forward. That's why I don't hate ITTOD. Is it Zeppelin at their finest? Not to me, but it has a lot of good to offer. Zeppelin were the best at taking a label someone gave them, and ripping it apart. This album was one of those times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can say unapologetically that Fool in the Rain is one of very favorite Zep tunes, regardless of the fact that it's not in their normal style or vibe. Listen to Dazed and Confused, etc. on Zep I, then think about the fact that a mere 10 years later they're playing this totally different style and doing it amazingly well. They take a detour to South America with no studio musicians as a guide, could the Stones do that? Could Deep Purple do that? This is really one of the things that separates them from everyone else. And Jimmy's work is exemplary, not just the solo, but the way his acoustic mirrors Jonesy's bass line (or is it the other way around?) in parts of the song.

As for the album, I would have welcomed the "return to hard rock" Jimmy and Bonzo were talking about as a follow up, but I still enjoy ITTOD...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

One of the things that bugs me the most about ITTOD is that the change in direction was supposedly at Plant's insistence. Then, a couple of years later, what does he do? Create a reasonable facsimile of a 'normal' Zep album for his first solo release. Seems he was happy to force a change on Zep, but unwilling to take a similar risk at the start of his solo career. Hmm....

I've never read anything about Plant "forcing" a change in direction on Led Zeppelin. As for the sound of his first solo record, naturally it's going to bare some sort of resemblance to the band he used to front. People do love their conspiracy theories when it comes to Plant, no matter how far fetched.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

there are some great thoughts in this thread, which i appreciate alot. as for my few quick thoughts, i think jpj was keeping the band together at that point, speculative ofcourse, but after the 77 tour and so forth.

i dont think wearing and tearing was any answer to punk rock at all, besides alittle punk riffage at the end of the song...but yeah it could have been a great replacement for hot dog. but i think led zeppelin were looking backward and ahead with music as a thing, as they always did. if anything it goes to show how those records were truly snapshots of time for them.

in regards to wearing and tearing, i think there is a song on them crooked vultures record that is influenced by that song, with some quick riffs, but not anything heavy metal crunchy sounding, more rounded sounding.

but as far as paying 8 dollars for a record in the 80s, it was certainly worth it for any one song.... in the evening, fool in the rain, or carouselambra. in regards to carouslambra lyrics...where was your helping where was your bow...i think there are all times no matter how well we know each other, where we simply do not know what to do or say. even if the person just needed simple friendship ya know. there have been many comments on the board over the yrs about the carouselambra seg of the 95 shows and that was a very cool moment which i guess sort of addressed that.

i do agree with the thoughts that plant was sort of leading the direction of this record though...even though i am sure the band and record co were promoting this as a word wide record at the time.it was pre mtv and a really good record.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ITTOD was the sign post of change for Zep. Not only musically, but in leadership. At the point of the making of the album it seemed that JPJ and Robert took matters in their own hands and quickly

tried to right the ship that was taking on water through every crack in its hull. And there were many cracks at this juncture. By all reports Jimmy was semi-coherent and John Bonham was a self-destructive

shell of what he was just a couple of years prior. Truthfully, Robert and JPJ rescued Zeppelin from an even earlier demise.

Yes, ITTOD is an un-even effort. It has its great moments for sure, but Hot Dog and IMO Fool(ishness) in the Rain, while clever, doesn't do it for me. In the Evening and Carouselambra and All of My Love

are classic epic Zeppelin. Throw in Wearing and Tearing and you might even have a great Zep album. South Bound is fun and rocking and I'm Gonna Crawl is a good blues trip with Robert singing

extremely well on it.

If you find ITTOD a poor piece of work - blame it on Jimmy and Bonzo - they blew it by their selfishness and loss of focus. If you like ITTOD - give Robert and Jonsey all the credit, they saved the good ship

Zep from the certain self-destruction that was bound to happen. And eventually did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Throw in Wearing and Tearing and you might even have a great Zep album.

Finally...a comment on a possible Wearing and Tearing on the album. THANKS!!!! I do think it would have made for a better album as a whole and much more appropriate than Hot Dog or even South Bound. It's a fun tune-yes, but it's not a memorable song. I know there have been interviews where Plant has stated that Jones and himself wrote most of the songs together because they always got to the studio on time. I think ITTOD is precious in a way simply because it is their last studio album.

(Triple Kick) in response to the drums you commented on, I agree with you that his style was more refined here than on earlier albums and what came before on Presense is a good example. That's some of Bonham's best work. So I'm not sure if that approach was intentional or just a sign of his bad habits at the time. (That's something we will never know) As I said in the topic post-Fool in the Rain is very clever as is Carouselambra and even the silly fun South Bound has some cool licks but I think he played it safe as a whole. I do know that Bonham had a taste for Pop bands such as Toto, Supertramp and things of that nature. So you can see where that type of style could have had an influence on him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...