In Through The Out Door

[MINI_Zoso]

Oh the blasphemy!!!

No, don't do it!!

For me, a fan of the song from the first time I heard it, had to put the original on to get the satisfaction back.

Can't please all the people all the time. Nice try though. Let's see what FITR sounds like...

[The Only Way To Fly]

I really like this album. IMO its more of a pop album than a traditional classic rock album. The heavy synth dominates the tracks, & its interesting to hear seeing how the synth dominated the early 1980's. I think this shows they were ahead of the curve again & it's such a shame that Bonzo would die a little more than a year & 1/2 later. Given Bonzo's intake of booze, etc he could have easily passed away in the USA during the planned 1980 American Campaign.

[Ross62]

I think that's not too bad at all.It puts a refreshing spin on a song that was boringly elongated and could do with some new ideas/edits.

I couldn't view this clip,I got this message: "This video contains content from WMG who has blocked it on copyright grounds".

[dazedcat]

These threads are a hoot. Nobody will ever convince anybody else about what's good and what's not. Personally speaking I think Carouselambra is unlistenable and the decades haven't changed my mind. Substitue Wearing and Tearing and Ozone Baby or even Darlene for that and you've got a fairly good record but hey, that's just me.

I also think that Physical Graffiti, everybody's sacred cow should have been released as a single LP. For my taste it had a lot of filler. Again though, that's just me.

I'll never convince anybody I'm right either and wouldn't expect to, wouldn't even try actually.

[PlanetPage]

a pleasure to read this. good song by song write-up! carouselambra, in the evening and i'm gonna crawl are my best 3

.. In light of Jimmy Page This Day Entry Today, ....I have to say I love I'm gonna crawl (perfect choice today) - this I think reflects Zep's mood of the "closing years" while the punk movement was on the rise..

......I remember when this album came out with ultra cool cover, and realizing just how tough the entertainment business is...there was some competition between Zep and Punk...

a little excerpt from a photo book I have:

"Named, some say, after the troubles the band found trying to get taken seriously while punk, disco and the UK's burgeoning new-wave scene were rising in popularity (the Joke was that it was easier to get popular, or "In through the door marked "Exit);

.....

and in excerpt from July 1986 Guitar World Jimmy Page Special Issue:

...."Led Zeppelin's last album (apart from the dismal outtakes that the posthumous Coda was comprised of) was the magnificent In Through The Out Door. Two of of the most experimental songs Page has ever recorded appear here, "In The Evening" and "Carouselambra,"both exercises in combining eastern modalities and the droning rhythms of trance music with the straightforward crunch of hard rock. The record certainly indicated that Page had turned yet another corner in his developing concept of making Led Zeppelin some kind of panstylistic pop band...."

......I loved this album then and now, I think it represents just how "skilled" Led Zeppelin were even in those difficult ("extremely") times.........this is the best how I can describe existence of this album....

[dazedcat]

Somewhat off topic but I would have cut these songs from PG:

Houses of the Holy (it didn't make the cut for HOTH and not this one either)

Down By The Seaside (horrible, but much better on Encomium)

Boogie with Stu (Mrs Valens was terrible on that track)

Night Flight (what the hell we need to get this down to a single LP)

Tampled Under Foot (I'm on a roll now)

In The Light (that should do it)

Yep, much better album now. And just think; now Coda is really something to listen to without any excuses or shame.

I sense a new thread

[Reggie29]

I don't think I like the sound of this. Not one little bit.

If you set up a thread like that, Led Tiki, prepare to be flamed mercilessly. I can only speak for myself of course, but I am prepared and committed to being your worst nightmare on this topic.

Bring it. If you dare.

What he said.

[TheStairwayRemainsTheSame]

Don't touch PG, demolish ITTOD if you will get rid of it preferably, but do not touch PG...

[dazedcat]

Dazedcat, I feel pretty much the same way about Carouselambra. But have you tried my version? I can listen to it now - in fact, I've listened to it more in the past few days than the last 30 years, probably.

Of course, what we really need to fix it is the master tapes, so that someone can do a repair job on the keyboard levels - or even delete them completely. Maybe they will surface one day, who knows.

Actually your edit is much better than the original. Still, for my tastes and how they run it's just better left off. You did good though, thanks.

Led Tiki was just responding to my post about editing PG down to a single LP. I know it's sacred ground and I said as much in my post. However, Tis the Season with Peace on Earth and Good Will towards men so I won't comment further.

[TheStairwayRemainsTheSame]

Thanks for the compliment, dazedcat. Maybe Jimmy will see this, and call me next time instead of Butcher Shirley?

I'm up for a debate on PG. Knowing Tiki as we do, I suspect he will see my posts above as a gauntlet thrown down, but I won't be able to slaughter him just yet cos I'm just about to leave home for 24 hours or so. Goodness only knows what carnage will have been wreaked by the time I return.

The forum will be slain by Rock Historian without you.

[the chase]

Dazedcat, I feel pretty much the same way about Carouselambra. But have you tried my version? I can listen to it now - in fact, I've listened to it more in the past few days than the last 30 years, probably. Of course, what we really need to fix it is the master tapes, so that someone can do a repair job on the keyboard levels - or even delete them completely. Maybe they will surface one day, who knows.

or better yet... leave it alone.

[Rock Historian]

No way, man, just...NO WAY .

Actually I think you're just trying to get a rise out of us, but you've gone too far this time. PG is Hallowed Ground.

So come on then Tiki, what's your fav LZ album? I bet you're one of those Old Fart Blues Bores who swears by LZ1, and thinks every album since then was inferior?

Shit, I'm at a loss for words here. Jeez...where's the Troll Slayer when we need him?

Did someone summons me????

I have my own thoughts about PG (maybe one of us should start a thread on it-or find where the original post is?) Anyway, I mostly agree with you (Major), but also with DC & Led Tiki .....to an extent. (I'm not just saying that to "play it safe") Again, it's all personal taste, but I would NEVER neglect In The Light (one of my fav's.), Trampled Underfoot and HOTH from the album.Those are VERY good songs. I've always thought that the extreme variety of this album is what makes it so great, but again it's all about what you like. Boogie with Stu (one of the few songs were Plant's tone/voice gets to me) - would be the only one that I would "toss", if it was mandatory to remove one (by law!!) There are not any BAD songs IMO, on PG- just a few that I don't choose to deliberatly listen to. So for that reason, I understand how there could be "filler" for some. Personally, I wouldn't exactly call it "filler", but more of the less attractive numbers. (I believe Night Flight, Boogie with Stu and The Rover were recorded for the 4th album.) Down by the Seaside is another obscurity by Zeppelin's taste-but it works. It has such a "calming" vibe about it. I really like it.

Personally speaking, I don't think Zeppelin ever wrote a really BAD song...just some that I choose not to listen too for my taste. Even as much as Hot Dog is not a road for Zeppelin to travel down-they did a fine job-for what it's worth..( It was a fun/joke tune) Again, that's another one I'd toss (which you did on your ITTOD "updated" project)

I notice that there are various types of Zeppelin fans...some who like just about everything they did (myself), some who just like the popular Zeppelin songs, and those who dig and appreciate the obscure/less played tracks. Some listeners take Zeppelin too seriously-they were actually a fun band-and the humor shows. (when they wanted it to) Some people don't "get" those tracks.

Major, just as you did your rearranging of what you think ITTOD could have been ( and I really like what you did-but I can't understand the HATE towards Carouselambra.... I'm sorry...I just don't - I actually love that song) , there will be someone who can disect PG or any other album just the same, for good-hearted forum fun.

But in reality-PG is a fuckin' Masterpiece (and not just because of Kashmir or Ten Tears Gone), regardless of what amount of "filler" it presents to some listeners. I have no problem listening to it-just how it is. That album is a classic for a reason. And it wouldn't be the same without every song in it's place. That's just me...........

[danelectro]

I respect the opinion of others on this, but I strongly disagree. ITTOD has more mixed reviews than any earlier album.

I don't know about that. Ever seen the reviews for the first two albums? The music critics of the day typically weren't fond of the band at any point.

[Jahfin]

I actually enjoy the samba breakdown in "Fool In the Rain". It's unexpected twists like that which give Zeppelin their very unique character. I also don't hear anything on Physical Graffiti that I would refer to as "filler". There's songs I like more than others but that's true of all of Zeppelin's records for me.

[mckjuana]

I have tired o many times to like ITTOD as much as I like the rest of their catalogue, but I just cant.

For me its a combination of material, production and enthusiasm. I just dont feel like the material was great. there were flashes of genius, but these were largely overshadowed by copious amounts of filler and experimentation (that didnt pay off).

Roberts voice sounds terrible (not just vocally, but production wise).

Bonzos drumming feels tame, and again hampered by bad production.

Jimmy simply phoned in his parts, but (taking the metaphor a bit further) seems like there was a bad reception at times or he dialled the wrong number

The keyboard tones perfectly capture an era...that has dated horribly IMO. The outro to Carouselambra being a good example.

In The Evening is not as great as it thinks it is, but on this album, its like a King.

The shift in a new direction is admirable and bands who can do it (as zeppelin obviously can and did) are far more interesting than bands that just hash out the same olf guff (e.g. ACDC). But in this case, the direction just didnt pay off.

I wasnt alive when it was released. ok well I was, just, but I couldnt a speak, didnt understand music and just spent my time shitting in nappies and crying a lot. - So I cant view the album in the context of its time, to see how it fared up with the rest. And therein lies the core problem for me: zeppelin's other albums (coda excepted) are timeless, this one is not.

Its like the ginger stepchild in the family. You have to love it because its part of "the family", but occasionally you are embarassed and annoyed by it!

[kaiser]

Let the matyrdom cease already. No one here, anywhere on this thread said not liking ITTOD makes one less a fan, that feeling comes down to someone feeling persecuted for their belief. I don't think it's a work of god-like genuis nor do I think any of their albums are, or anyone else's for that matter, it's just a good album that I enjoy. I happen to like it better than Presence & LZ2 & I've given my reasons why which are worthless to you simply because my opinion doesn't reflect your own sense of vanity. What's so hard to understand about a person's preference just because it doesn't match your own? It's ego run rampant. I think the point that the majority of people here, fans or not fans of ITTOD have tried to put across is that it boils down to personal preference, which for some reason you simply cannot comprehend or accept, which really is your problem & no one else's. I imagine if someone was a teenager in the late 70's (I wasn't) & was a Zeppelin fan & liked guitar driven cock rock at that time like Ted Nugent, Foghat, Black Oak Arkansas, etc, they probably wouldn't like ITTOD but if they were a teenager at the time & liked Zeppelin but also liked Bowie's Berlin trilogy, the Talking Heads, Joy Division, etc they probably would like the album. I was a kid when Zeppelin was still around & listened to them because my brothers had the albums. Fortunately for me being younger I didn't care about the bs youth culture of the time so I had no bias against punk, new wave, disco, pop, etc or against hard rock, metal, or even country rock, I was a kid & my ears were fresh & I liked all of it to some degree & still do. Back then I'd take Gary Numan's "Cars" over Ted Nugents "Wang Dang Sweet Pootang" & still would which is probably why I'd take "Carouselambra" over "The Lemon Song" then & now. What can I say, it appeals to me. Zeppelin is my favorite band followed by The Clash, & The Smiths, three bands that have nothing in common with one another that are from different eras yet to my ears had put out a consistent yet diverse product. I liked Prince as much as I liked Iron Maiden in 1982 & still do yet they're worlds apart. It's music, it should be enjoyed & I can't be bothered over the bias of an instrument namely here it being a keyboard, it's just ridiculous to me. In the end it doesn't matter to me if you like the album or not, it's what I think of it & that's how I feel everyone should approach that album or anything in life: how they as an individual feel about "it".

[TheStairwayRemainsTheSame]

Its like the ginger stepchild in the family. You have to love it because its part of "the family", but occasionally you are embarassed and annoyed by it!

Omg loool this is so silly but so true!

[kaiser]

I was a teenager at the time and I didn't like any of the horrible bands you list in the first part of your proposition.

However, as a big fan of punk/post-punk, I did like the kind of stuff you refer to in part two. But I fail to see why you think that someone who was into progressive, ground-breaking New Music would be any more likely to like ITTOD. I heard nothing progressive or ground-breaking on ITTOD, just one long sideways stumble into mediocrity.

I'm not implying that if someone was into say the Talking Heads or the Bowie/Eno records that they would instantly be into ITTOD but more likely to give it a chance due to those own artists use of synthesizers & therefore the fans of those artists would be less resistant to Zeppelins own use of synths. A large argument against LZ's use of synths on ITTOD is that the synths sound dated which I don't disagree with but since I'm a fan of the album, admittly, my spin on it is that they just sound very much of their time just as Phil Spectors production on those girl groups of the early 60's sounds of it's time. I can't listen to Gary Numan's "Down In The Park" & not hear 1979 or Bowie's "Sound & Vision" & not hear 1977 or the Clash's "This Is Radio Clash" & not hear 1980 as far as the synths, it doesn't bother me in fact I like it as I do Donna Summer's "I Feel Love" also from 77 & a big influence on Bowie. I don't think Zeppelin broke new ground with synths as an instrument as a whole the way Kraftwerk, Giorgio Moroder, or Eno did, I think they just broke ground for themselves as a band, which even if one doesn't like the way it was applied one should be able to admit as a band they continued to break ground for themselves. I'm not going to try to convince you to like anything off of ITTOD, I couldn't as you have ears of your own dictating what you personally like, but I will speak my mind when you discount the album for all who do enjoy it as if your word is law & to discount everyone's opinions or preference's who favor the album as it's just plain obnoxious to do so, so don't portray yourself as a matyr if you then become challenged by those you yourself deemed worthless many many times over for simply expressing themselves in favor of the album.

[Rock Historian]

I'm not implying that if someone was into say the Talking Heads or the Bowie/Eno records that they would instantly be into ITTOD but more likely to give it a chance due to those own artists use of synthesizers & therefore the fans of those artists would be less resistant to Zeppelins own use of synths. A large argument against LZ's use of synths on ITTOD is that the synths sound dated which I don't disagree with but since I'm a fan of the album, admittly, my spin on it is that they just sound very much of their time just as Phil Spectors production on those girl groups of the early 60's sounds of it's time. I can't listen to Gary Numan's "Down In The Park" & not hear 1979 or Bowie's "Sound & Vision" & not hear 1977 or the Clash's "This Is Radio Clash" & not hear 1980 as far as the synths, it doesn't bother me in fact I like it as I do Donna Summer's "I Feel Love" also from 77 & a big influence on Bowie. I don't think Zeppelin broke new ground with synths as an instrument as a whole the way Kraftwerk, Giorgio Moroder, or Eno did, I think they just broke ground for themselves as a band, which even if one doesn't like the way it was applied one should be able to admit as a band they continued to break ground for themselves. I'm not going to try to convince you to like anything off of ITTOD, I couldn't as you have ears of your own dictating what you personally like, but I will speak my mind when you discount the album for all who do enjoy it as if your word is law & to discount everyone's opinions or preference's who favor the album as it's just plain obnoxious to do so, so don't portray yourself as a matyr if you then become challenged by those you yourself deemed worthless many many times over for simply expressing themselves in favor of the album.

You Nailed It!

[kaiser]

That's twice now you've accused me of having some kind of martyr complex. I meant to respond to the first instance, but forgot. Really don't know where you're coming from with that - I don't feel in any way troubled or threatened by any of the comments made by various ITTOD supporters. But I think it's fair to say that there is a certain agenda when it comes to this particular album whereby relative newcomers to the Zep canon consider it to be on a par with their earlier work and therefore no more worthy of negative criticism than any other of their albums; whereas a significant minority of those of us who were actually around at the time recognise it for what it felt like at the time and will remain, for us at least, i.e. a thoroughly unsatisfactory and unrepresentative end to their recording career in comparison to what had come before.

As for synths, I have no problem whatsoever with them - I like all of the artists you mention, plus quite a few others who would probably surprise you, given that you appear to have me down as an unreconstructed guitar-head who thinks keyboards don't belong in rock. Zep had used synths and other keybaords many times before, but far more successfully and less obtrusively. Sadly, ITTOD presented Zep as a keyboard-driven band, which is just plain wrong and was a huge mistake, IMO. Plus, the bottom line: many of the songs were simply not up to scratch, unlikely to sound any better even if they'd been presented in a more traditional Zep format.

At the end of the day, I'd rather we had ITTOD than not have it, but as a previous poster astutely observed, it will remain a red-headed stepchild to those of us who prefer our Zep to pack a more visceral and invigorating punch. It might have broken new ground for Zep, but IMO that ground was not worth breaking, for Zep.

Lovers gonna love...

Well put as far as you're slant in regards to the album & where you're coming from with it Cool mate, I hate seeing miscommuncation on the board turn into personal nonsense as it does in life in general, sooooo..... for all involved, let's just respect one another's opinions & not jump all over one another due to our opinions & preferences. We're all here for one major reason, the love of Led Zeppelin, & like the band itself we as an audience take on many different aspects & if not appreciated personally every member here at least have a certain level of respect for others who do. Not a lot to ask I think & that's not directed at any one in particular, myself included, but ALL of us. Happy holidays folks or if you're not inclined that way, here's to good living, Cheers to all here

[Ross62]

I can still view it. But I don't know, maybe it's reading it from my hard drive? I don't really understand all this teccy geek stuff. I've never upped to Youtube before...and I don't think I'll ever do it again, if it's going to get me into trouble with WMG. "I divvent want nee trouble, pal"

It may be the graphic of the FITR single that's causing the copyright concern.

"And yeraight! ye'll nut ba wanting anny trubble wi' them fokkers!"

[Electrophile]

^ Totally agree.

As for how it sounded when it was released, I bought it the day it came out and was hugely disappointed. It made no more sense to me at 17 than it would have to you as a baby.

I can't be bothered to go back and quote any specifics, but it seems to me there has been an undercurrent to this thread to the effect that anyone who doesn't accept ITTOD's god-like genius is somehow not a true Zep fan. I hold the opposite to be the case - anyone who thinks this in any way stands up against the rest of their albums is a blind, unquestioning devotee, whose opinions are therefore worthless.

I'm sorry, there were people in this thread who think ITTOD is a god-like genius? I wasn't aware of that. I also wasn't aware that said people thought people who felt differently weren't "true Zep fans."

[dazedcat]

I have come to my senses............

ITTOD is a perfect Zeppelin album, just like the rest of their albums are perfect. Nothing they ever did is bad in any way shape or form. Every studio bootleg recording is also perfect.

Every live show recording available is perfect, either authorized or private. Nothing they ever did was not the greatest rock recording every made.........until the next recording they made which would then be the perfect one.

There is never a need or reason to question any song sequence to any of their LP's, ever. Every former member of Zeppelin should always rank Number 1 in any poll...........forever.

Percy ought to give up his nonsense roots/blues/swamp music that he's currently into and agree for a Zep reunion tour............a reunion tour that should go on until they can no longer play anymore.

Everything is beautiful.

[dazedcat]

No sir, I've been nowhere.

I have however, seen the light

[Electrophile]

Read it all again, but this time without your literalist hat on.

I have read this thread, and I think you're full of crap. That's with my "bitch" hat on. The people who've said they like ITTOD, or at least don't think it's a pile of shit, even if they don't think it's the best thing they've done, do not think they are the "true" Zep fans, and everyone else can go pound sand. They've never even intimated that. That is what you're choosing to read into things, and you're doing so in error. All I have seen is people saying that liking this album or not liking this album is purely personal choice, and there's nothing wrong with either answer.

I wasn't aware that was a slanderous concept.