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In Through The Out Door


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i dont think wearing and tearing was any answer to punk rock at all, besides alittle punk riffage at the end of the song...but yeah it could have been a great replacement for hot dog.

Actually, it was recorded for that purpose. The band were fans of Punk, simply for the attitude -not for sheer musical ability. I have no way of finding a link, but from my Elephant memory of reading Zeppelin articles, it was quoted as being written as their answer to Punk. That, I know for sure.

I used to collect tons of magazines that featured Zeppelin back in the mid to late 80's when I first go into Zeppelin. I lost the majority of that stuff in Katrina a few years ago, but my memory serves me well. Believe it or not, they were even thoughts to go as far as releasing Wearing and Tearing as a single under a different name to see what kind of response they could muster up. That's also a fact...interesting stuff.

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Wearing and Tearing was to be released as a single at Knebworth but for whatever reason never happened. I also feel ITTOD is a great album and very different as a whole. The only song on the album which I feel is only "ok" is SBS. I agree the synth in AML should have been replaced by a piano or possibly a Jimmy solo. For me though the masterpiece is I'am Gonna Crawl. This is their best all around blues song and has the best, perfect blues solo ever recorded IMO. Maybe I am the only one on this board who loves Hot Dog but what can I say. It's a cheeky song lyrically along the lines of Royal Orleans and has a great rhythmic feel. The solo Jimmy does is weird and wonderful, kinda like a drunk ass Ricky Skaggs after too many Jack Daniels...LOVE IT!!! Don't know if this was by accident or on purpose, but the song just works in a funky, sloppy, cow-punk way.

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Wearing and Tearing was to be released as a single at Knebworth but for whatever reason never happened. I also feel ITTOD is a great album and very different as a whole. The only song on the album which I feel is only "ok" is SBS. I agree the synth in AML should have been replaced by a piano or possibly a Jimmy solo. For me though the masterpiece is I'am Gonna Crawl. This is their best all around blues song and has the best, perfect blues solo ever recorded IMO. Maybe I am the only one on this board who loves Hot Dog but what can I say. It's a cheeky song lyrically along the lines of Royal Orleans and has a great rhythmic feel. The solo Jimmy does is weird and wonderful, kinda like a drunk ass Ricky Skaggs after too many Jack Daniels...LOVE IT!!! Don't know if this was by accident or on purpose, but the song just works in a funky, sloppy, cow-punk way.

Yes, your right man, (Wearing and Tearing) it was to released as a single. I'm surprised to read the comments about JPJ's keyboard solo on AML. That's a first for me, and I gotta disagree. The song starts off in synth, so it makes sense that he played the solo as synth too. That's a perfect note for note solo and the sound of it gives it the great feel it does. Don't think it would have made a big difference to better the song if he had played it on piano. I don't see that nor can I imagine it. The keyboards do no sound dated. To me they sound modern, because it fits the song. For most of the album he plays the synth opposed to the piano and none of those tunes sound dated either. As for I'm Gonna Crawl, I like it too, but it's not their best blues. Since I've been lovin you is much deeper blues than that. It's another level of blues. But IGC is very charming in it's simplicity.

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To me, you're a Zeppelin fan who's honest to his taste in the bands' music.

I wouldn't mind knowing why it's near the bottom for you and what you would say is your least favorite?

Thank you. I think LZ2 is not a fully realized or focused album they way LZ1 is, but to be fair it really couldn't be. On LZ1 Page had been formulating what he wanted to do before he even met Plant & Bonham. What LZ1 became was a template for every thing the band did after. On to LZ2, it was recorded mostly on the road, half of the material came out of onstage jamming, they were jumping from studio to studio on limited time between shows, etc, & it shows. It's a very raw album compared to the first, I understand that's what appeals to the fans who list as their favorite album yet for me it only half works. WLL, WIASNB, Thank You, Heartbreaker, & Bring It On Home are absolutely perfect, even in the sloppy bits of Page's playing. The rest... it comes down to preference I guess. The Lemon Song is ok as a song, the playing is really good (especially JPJ), but it meanders & I think that type of jammy blues pastiche song had beed done better on the first album, that song being How Many More Times. Ramble On, I know there are a lot of Tolkien fans in the LZ world but I'm not one of them. I like the bass line & that's about it. I'm not a fan of the subject matter or Page's playing & production. I'm jst not a fan. Livin' Lovin' Maid... it's filler even compared to South Bound Saurez. It's not a bad song, it's really just an after thought to Heartbreaker. I never put that song on without Heartbreaker preceding it, it just doesn't work on it's own for me. Lastly, Moby Dick... I love John Bonham but even as far as drum solo's go this is boring. I'll take Bonzo's Montreaux any day over Moby Dick as the former moves & is energetic while the latter just plods along. And those are my thoughts, let my burning at the stake begin lol.

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Hindsight is a wonderful thing but back in the day the technology being used i.e., Synthesisers were relatively new and a new toy for Jonesy.

The keyboards in AML are great to a certain degree thanks to JPJ's playing and arrangement and Plant's heartfelt vocal and lyrical content.

He wrote it as a dedication to his son Karac.

As has been stated, the album was mostly Plant and Jones at least in the writing sense.

The fact that ITTOD stands up is a credit to Plant and Jones given that Jimmy and Bonzo were virtual session musicians considering the below normal participation in the production and creative process so it is unique in comparison to other albums within their (Led Zeppelin) body of work.

Perhaps if Jonesey had've taken a leaf out of Page's book (no pun intended but I'll take it anyway), and multi layered keyboards, piano and organ tracks etc.

Imagine the synth in harmony with his mellotron (see TRS)?

One of the reasons I like the music is, although they were constrained within their own genre they, like The Beatles always pushed the envelope and weren't fazed when critics and fans alike didn't embrace some of the changes.

The haphazardness of the somewhat convoluted album, the order of songs for instance, highlights the genius, diligence also inexperience of them both.

Until that time all they had to do was focus on their individual contributions, after all Jimmy was producing, right!?

Not this time.

Remember they were contractually obligated to produce an album, so imagine the pressure they were under given Page and Bonham's condition, to put it out.

Where the album fell short is, it lacked Page's studio skills, his playing is great on it but not as prolific as other outings.

Sure Montreaux is "better" than MD but you are putting the cart before the horse, right there.

I like ITTOD just because it is simply, a Led Zeppelin album.

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Actually, it was recorded for that purpose. The band were fans of Punk, simply for the attitude -not for sheer musical ability. I have no way of finding a link, but from my Elephant memory of reading Zeppelin articles, it was quoted as being written as their answer to Punk. That, I know for sure.

I used to collect tons of magazines that featured Zeppelin back in the mid to late 80's when I first go into Zeppelin. I lost the majority of that stuff in Katrina a few years ago, but my memory serves me well. Believe it or not, they were even thoughts to go as far as releasing Wearing and Tearing as a single under a different name to see what kind of response they could muster up. That's also a fact...interesting stuff.

i sorta think that rock journalists have repeated that wearing and tearing was an answer to punk so many times that it just kept on getting printed over and over. right along with punk bands hating bands like zeppelin, yes and genesis as if there was some massive personal rift there or something.. so yeah with the fact that zeppelin liked punk rock...i never saw that song as an answer to punk rock, but rather inspired by punk to a degree, with the energy of it.

the rock writers seemed to like to want to keep that punk rock anti corporate rock going so long...that it got into the whole selling out idea and somehow that punk was a more authentic or more honest music or something. punk rock fans are serious too, maybe take their music more seriously than most other fans of music...and im sure it sold alot of magazines and that there are still alot punk purists out there who hate zeppelin, yes, genesis and whoever. yet in some cases they accept the who ofcourse.

i like the synth on all my love, think it works, but now that i hear folks mentioning piano...that would totally change the vibe of the song, with the somber and heavy sections and maybe shine more light on the lyrics.

would love to hear a remix changing the sound of the synth on carouselambra, lowering it and and maybe warping it to sound different might b be cool.. thats the one song that gets me tweaking the bass and treble to modify the sound.

jpjs sparing use of keyboards and seemingly toy pianos on the tcv record is interesting...think he is probably really aware of keyboards place in rock music more than anybody else these days.

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Wheather you like the album or not is your own choice. The topic was started for that reason and to get a few comments/feedback on a few particular thoughts. However, saying that the album " makes you wanna puke" -doesn't sound like a statement that comes from a classy, true Zeppelin fan.

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In retrospect, the packaging was the highlight of the album. I liked the magic painting on the inner sleeve. Like everyone else, I discovered it by accident, around about the 4th time I listened to the album, realised it wouldn't get any better however many times I listened to it, and began to weep...

I had a different experience- didn't care much for the album when it was first released but after listening to it a few times I really started to get into a couple of the songs, especially Carouselambra & believe it or not- South Bound Saurez. After a short while I really got into the rest of the album as well. ITTOD will never be my favorite Zeppelin album but overall I think it's pretty good.

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Beetleron didn't say it made him 'wanna puke'. He was just being witty.

'A classy, true Zeppelin fan' isn't allowed to have a sense of humour, or be critical of their poorer work?

I think "sarcastic" would be the word to use...not witty.

Sure, you can be witty, cocky, annoying, good hearted, etc.etc . He can clarify himself if he wants to. You can say whatever you want about anything. But for me, I took it as I read it. If you post a comment and don't clarify what you mean, it is what it is. As for me, music that makes me wanna puke, is music I can't stand or that I don't believe is musical. I don't believe Zeppelin made an album that makes you wanna puke...sounds like a Clash statement. I'll admit that it's not my favorite either, as the post reveals, but people are identified by the comments they make. To each his own I suppose.

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Albums are directly tied to memories for me, of a particular time and particular place. HOTH reminds me of a church camping trip I took to Wisconsin in the Summer of 74'. The older kids (I was 6 but most of the kids were around 14-16) were playing it non-stop and I loved it and the experience associated with it. Physical Graffiti reminds me of the summer of 75' when I scored my first girlfriend (she was 11 and I was 7) and had my first kiss and EVERYBODY was jamming that album. Presence was a late summer 76' and had similar connotations as PG. ITTOD is special for me as the fall of 79' was a turning point in my life. My older brother was just getting involved in a drug habit that would ultimately take his life in 95', may father was being quite the "traveling man" if you know what I mean and my mom was holding everything together. On the flip side I was having a blast on the cusp of my teens (11 yrs old) and I had a lot of freedom. I was always hanging out with my friends, causing trouble (minor, silly stuff nothing heavy) and acting like a 16 year old. That Christmas was special as well and I just cannot get ITTOD out of my head, for me it's a winter album, a solstice album, a Christmas album so I associate it with celebration and rebirth on the one hand and cold, dark, foreboding on the other. What can I say, I am sentimental :)

This is also not their worst album (in my opinion) because they do not have any bad or poor albums, simply different. Kind of like the Beetles, I love their music but hate some of the crap they did on The White Album in particular. That should have been a single album IMO because of all the experimental garbage such as Rev #9. Or how they were notorious for keeping the tape going at the end of a song just to record noisy dribble. See, to me that is just shit, to others, pure genius.

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I feel In Through The Out Door is Robert Plant's album more than anybody else's.... even John Paul Jones'.

Robert went through the biggest tragedy of his life, losing his 5 year old son. He has said he had evaluated how he was living his life, changed his value system and got clean. I think this change is obvious in how he sang and what he was singing about. Side 2 has some of the most heartfelt lyrics he ever wrote.

I think Pictures at Eleven shows how much Robert influenced ITTOD....not the other way around.

Pictures doesn't sound like he went back to Zeppelin's sounds to me at all.... he also got further away from the "Zeppelin sound" on Principle of Moments and shaken and Stirred.... He didn't even touch Zeppelin material live until the Now and Zen tour.

John Paul Jones has always been an amazing musician and he stepped up when necessary. That being said, I always felt ITTOD was too piano heavy. 3 songs in a row that the piano was the main instrument. His playing is incredible, but the piano was never really featured as much in Zeppelin's music and this took some getting used to.

His Bass playing is amazing throughout ITTOD, in particular on Carouselambra.

"There were 2 distinct camps at the time. We (Robert and Jones) were in the reletively clean one."

JPJ

As far as John Bonham's performance.. If he was messed up, I don't hear it.... I think he played incredibly well.. Nothing as fierce as Sick Again, IMTOD or ALS, but he's playing some very tasty stuff... South Bound Suarez is very tricky as is Fool In the Rain (the Purdie Shuffle) and his drum kit is recorded incredibly well.

It's a very odd album for Jimmy Page, but I think he's doing more than people realize.. As someone else pointed out, Page was using a Roland Guitar Synth and some of the things he did might be gettting overlooked. But he doesn't sound nearly as sharp on this as any previous Zeppelin album. In the Evening is pure Page. If he was more involved and if Wearing and Tearing or Darlene were included, it might be considered a heavier more Zeppelin type album..

Page also calls it a transitional album. Just like LZ3 and Houses were.... great on their own but .. look how amazing their follow ups are... I think if they got to release another in 1981-1982, it would have been incredible.

I'm glad they recorded it...

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I don't think a great guitarist has to perform a grand solo to make a statement. Page's guitar is all over ITTOD just as it is on side 2 of LZ3. There are no grand solo's on side 2 of LZ3 but Page plays some of the most beautiful music he ever laid down on it. Is "That's The Way" less of a guitar workout than "SIBLY' for the lack of solo? Not to my ears. Page is a better songwriter, arranger, & producer than he is even a guitarist, the guitar just happens to be his tool of choice, in that context with his songwriting, arranging, & producing skils he makes the song work as a whole before his own guitar heroics... usually. "All My Love" is the same. He didn't write any of the song but he provided beautiful moaning fills on his electric with a nice counter melody on his acoustic... he was making the song work. I'd hardly say he was a session musician there but a band member making his bands song work, as did JPJ on "WIASNB" as he makes that song even without a songwriting credit or Bonham "Sick Again" without a songwriting credit. It's a band regardless of whomever did the songwriting.

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^ Must say I disagree I've often thought about this and I thought how good would the records sound if Pagey didn't produce them and just stuck to playing, well obvioulsy they'd wouldn't sound as good, but it was because he is such a good guitar player he was able to produce the records in such a way that it almost went around his guitar playing, he knew what was going to sound well over his playing, I think he is a good producer but a better guitar player, but it is because he is so good at both he is able to make the records sound as good as they do, it flows well.

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I don't think a great guitarist has to perform a grand solo to make a statement. Page's guitar is all over ITTOD just as it is on side 2 of LZ3. There are no grand solo's on side 2 of LZ3 but Page plays some of the most beautiful music he ever laid down on it. Is "That's The Way" less of a guitar workout than "SIBLY' for the lack of solo? Not to my ears. Page is a better songwriter, arranger, & producer than he is even a guitarist, the guitar just happens to be his tool of choice, in that context with his songwriting, arranging, & producing skils he makes the song work as a whole before his own guitar heroics... usually. "All My Love" is the same. He didn't write any of the song but he provided beautiful moaning fills on his electric with a nice counter melody on his acoustic... he was making the song work. I'd hardly say he was a session musician there but a band member making his bands song work, as did JPJ on "WIASNB" as he makes that song even without a songwriting credit or Bonham "Sick Again" without a songwriting credit. It's a band regardless of whomever did the songwriting.

I agree. A statement for a great guitar player doesn't have to be a solo. It can be a memorable riff, or adding colors to a song. That is lacking from the album as a whole. He did add some nice colors to All My Love and a few other things. The most guitar oriented song on ITTOD is In the Evening (riff wise) which Page is famous for. Besides the natural solos he played there are no other stand out guitar related tunes. If you relate it to LZ3, that is pure acoustic music, so it is guitar oriented in a sense. You can't really compare the second side of LZ3 to ITTOD because it's a totally different concept, place, time and type of music. And he did make his statement on LZ3, just listen to the entire first side. All classic Zeppelin. Thanks for the input. I enjoyed reading it.

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http://youtu.be/91rAHlb8BwY

And I don't think "punk" as a genre was the main influence on "Wearing And Tearing" as much as it was The Damned as a band. Page played The Damned's first album "Damned Damned Damned" non-stop on the 1977 tour & has gone on record numerous times to say how much he loved the band, that album, & this song in particular. "Wearing And Tearing" is not a duplicate of "New Rose" but you can hear where it would have been inspired by it.

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http://youtu.be/hCJcrHncTCU

As far as Bonzo not being what he once was on earler albums all one has to do is listen to this from the ITTOD sessions...

Yes, this is one of the best performances from these sessions, which sadly wasn't on the album-so it doesn't hold much weight if you strick with ITTOD as it is. Also, from a band who always had the drums as the centerpoint of focus in the mix most of the time-his drums are really buried in alot of tunes on the album, which makes for a less of an exciting listen. That's part of the problem I have. It's not only what Bohnam plays that makes him special but how he plays it. This album doesn't do justice to that statement. Again - Wearing and Tearing was a brickhouse track for him , which also wasn't on it. That's why I feel tracks like these would have made for a better well-rounded album.

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http://youtu.be/91rAHlb8BwY

And I don't think "punk" as a genre was the main influence on "Wearing And Tearing" as much as it was The Damned as a band. Page played The Damned's first album "Damned Damned Damned" non-stop on the 1977 tour & has gone on record numerous times to say how much he loved the band, that album, & this song in particular. "Wearing And Tearing" is not a duplicate of "New Rose" but you can hear where it would have been inspired by it.

However you wanna look at it or explain it, Wearing and Tearing was a definite influence from Punk rock, wheather it be the genere as a whole, a song or a band. It was Punk influenced-that's my point.

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Who are you to tell anyone who should be a member here or not just because they don't like what is classed as Zeppelin's worst album?

Let me explain something to you- I'm a die-hard Zeppelin fan. There are things I love about them and a few things I don't care for but to utter certain words to describe a Zeppelin album are forbiiden to my taste. To dislike something is fine, but to use the phrase "makes people wanna puke" should never come out of a Zeppelin fans mouth when relating to their albums. That's a cardinal sin in my book ...only haters of their music have degrading words to descibe them. Unless your just here to get a rise out of someone......That's the way I see it.

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