RIP-IT-UP Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you remember Jack Bruce's slagging on Zep/Jimmy after the O2 show, I ran across an interesting quote in Dave Lewis' book "LZ Celebration II". There's an exclusive interview in the book between Dave Lewis and Peter Grant from the mid-90"s and they start talking about the forming of Zep: DL: I interviewed Jack Bruce a few years ago, and he said he was asked to join Zeppelin? PG: I don't think so...no, I don't remember that at all. This is interesting, because I've never heard of Bruce's name being mentioned as a contender. If it was true, as close as Page and Grant were, it's hard to believe that Jimmy would not have told Grant. Also, JPJ was already "in", from very close to the get-go, so why would they ask another bass player to join? It makes one question Bruce's motivation, especially if he made this up; and it was he who mentioned it out of the blue, apparently, to Dave Lewis...Apparently, even years ago he felt a need to be "superior" to Zep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireOpal Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 To quote Sir Mick Jagger (talking about Keith Richards), "He's not a happy person." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 After forty plus years and counting, does it really matter at all now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingzepp Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Jack Bruce is full of shit. +1, on many different levels might I add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Jack Bruce seems to have a chip on his shoulder for some reason, as he always has nothing very positive to say about the group. I say, Fuck Jack Bruce... Ok, I'm over it now. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swandown Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 There's an interview somewhere (can't find it, but it might be in TBL) where Bruce said something to the effect of "I'm glad I didn't join Led Zeppelin when they asked me to." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 ^ So true, those acts definitley "stole their thunder" - although his words of Hendrix never seem like daggers...only in the Zeppelin camp do they smell of garbage. Keith Richards, Eric Clapton, Pete Townsend to name a few, who weren't as harsh stilll never really had a whole lotta good things to say about em either. A coincidence I feel that way about all their music - even decades before I discovered their quoted dislikeness....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 ...because his stupefyingly boring blues-pop combo was rendered obsolete twice in quick succession - first by Hendrix, who left them mortally wounded; then by Zep, who delivered the coup de grace. I finally found something that I disagree with you on. Cream were not boring and they didn't get "killed" by either Hendrix or Zeppelin. Bruce is impossible to deal with and he's not a nice human being based on most of what I've ever read about the man. That's what broke Cream up. Hell Ginger Baker even ran screaming away again after they did their re-union gigs in the mid 2000's. Of course, opinions do vary............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I don't mind Cream either. If anything, all of those bands helped to push each other to new heights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I couldn't give a rat's ass about what Jack Bruce thinks...I haven't thought about him or Cream one way or another since the 70s. To me, they're a relic of the past with a shorter shelf life than the Doors or even Jefferson Airplane. But, what the hell, I'll play devil's advocate and give this a minute's thought. What if Jack Bruce has his timing off? I think it's pretty much agreed from all reputable sources that John Paul Jones was always in from the very beginning...JPJ was the first person Jimmy approached when forming the band from all accounts. So NO, I don't buy Jack Bruce being asked by Jimmy to join in 1968. However, if you recall, Jones wanted to leave the band in 1973 after the US tour, and become a choir master or something. It took some cajoling and concessions on the part of PG and JP to get JPJ back in the fold...not as much touring, for one thing. Which partly explains the more infrequent touring post-73...accidents, death, and bad luck being the other reasons. Anyway, might it have been possible that during the period when it looked like Jones might leave Zeppelin that Jimmy could have approached Jack Bruce to see if he would replace JPJ? Of course, there is no replacing Jones. Bruce may be a great bass player(at least, other bass players seem to think so...he never did anything for me), but he lacked Jones' multiple talents on keyboards and mandolin, which would have hindered Led Zeppelin's live repertoire unless they decided to hire extra musicians for the road. So, whether Jack Bruce is full of shit or not...Thank You Jack for NOT joining Led Zeppelin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStairwayRemainsTheSame Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Just backs up my belief that the only good guy in Cream was Baker. Great bassist but what a dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vule69 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Maybe they are right and millions of us are wrong about Zep. I mean,they are professional musicians and all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingzepp Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 ...because his stupefyingly boring blues-pop combo was rendered obsolete twice in quick succession - first by Hendrix, who left them mortally wounded; then by Zep, who delivered the coup de grace. hahah, well said sir. That's what I was going to say along those lines. He talked about how Creem did a full on tour and all zep did was one lousy one off gig, (referrering to the 02 show in 2007), Creem was around for what 3 years in the late 60's? He has no credibility whatsoever. He can play a bass. Thats it. Someone needs to suggest to his management/company or whatever, that he shuts the fuck up about other people, quit acting like Pete Townsend, being jealous about everyone elses successful career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Sorry but Pete Townshend had a very successful career. The Who sold millions of records. Townshend is on record as saying he liked the guys in Zeppelin but not what they played. I'm not sure that's really jealousy, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vule69 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Townshend said it in exact words, he is jealous that Zeppelin sold more albums and get's more praise then The Who. You can find those quotes on this forum if you look hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingzepp Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Townshend said it in exact words, he is jealous that Zeppelin sold more albums and get's more praise then The Who. You can find those quotes on this forum if you look hard. There you go. Pete Downsend is a dickhead wanker anyways. The Who had John Entwistle, & thats it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Ok, we'll go with that then. If I posted what I want to about how fucking ignorant that statement is, I'd probably be banned and I'd rather not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I'm pretty sure Keith Moon was also in the Who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingzepp Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My statement was great & also grand. Keith Moon had a bit of talent too yes, more than the front duo for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My statement was great & also grand. I'm voting for ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danelectro Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 ...because his stupefyingly boring blues-pop combo was rendered obsolete twice in quick succession - first by Hendrix, who left them mortally wounded; then by Zep, who delivered the coup de grace. Without a doubt Hendrix stole some of their thunder, though the reality was nobody could contend with him. But Cream was for all practical purposes dead and buried before Zep even got of the ground. The agreed to disband in early '68. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 My statement was great & also grand. Keith Moon had a bit of talent too yes, more than the front duo for sure. When he was on, Keith Moon was brilliant... Daltrey and Townsend have a ton of talent too. Pete Townsend speaks before he thinks... always did, but he's a major songwriting talent. John Entwistle was one of the greatest Bassists to pick up the instrument. There always seemed to be some mutual respect between The Who and Zeppelin too. Just backs up my belief that the only good guy in Cream was Baker. Great bassist but what a dick. Ginger Baker's my least favorite member of Cream by far.. he's arrogant as hell John Bonham admired him always spoke very highly of Baker... and he recently rated Bonham a 3-4 on a scale of 1 - 10... I usually don't mind this stuff but he's just being an ass .... a bitter old man ... and if he really meant it ... he's stupid. John Bonham could have mopped the floor with this guy. edit found this quote from a Jack Bruce biography.. "Composing Himself" In the late 60s and early 70s very few musicians other than Miles Davis were blending jazz improv with the fire and fury of rock. Alongside Miles’s seminal Bitches Brew, the music Jack Bruce was making at that time with John McLaughlin and Tony Williams is considered one of the progenitors of fusion. This after Jack turned down an offer from John Paul Jones to join Led Zeppelin. Stephen Stills invited Jack to join CSNY, but only as a bass player and not as a contributing songwriter. Another polite pass from Jack. -- Not sure if JPJ was leaving and setting up a replacement or was going to stay on as Keyboardist .... or imagine 2 Bassists! Interesting that it was Jones who supposedly approached him.also found this....... Was asked to join Led Zeppelin as second bassist during the 1970s, but declined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 When he was on, Keith Moon was brilliant... Daltrey and Townsend have a ton of talent too. Pete Townsend speaks before he thinks... always did, but he's a major songwriting talent. John Entwistle was one of the greatest Bassists to pick up the instrument. There always seemed to be some mutual respect between The Who and Zeppelin too. Ginger Baker's my least favorite member of Cream by far.. he's arrogant as hell John Bonham admired him always spoke very highly of Baker... and he recently rated Bonham a 3-4 on a scale of 1 - 10... I usually don't mind this stuff but he's just being an ass .... a bitter old man ... and if he really meant it ... he's stupid. John Bonham could have mopped the floor with this guy. Chase, I agree with you somewhat on the Bonham comment. I think Cream was a good band for the short time they lasted and I think they inspired Zep in a way. I won't take away from them musically (even though I only care for a handful of tracks) They were a good power/blues-trio. The personalities are a different story. Every interview I've seen has either Bruce or Baker (sometimes drunk) mad at the world in some form or another. (Never having any good words towards Zep, I might add) When I say Zep and Hendrix 'stole their thunder" I mean, taking from the same ingredience and building on it-which I believe inspired Page and Co. Also, as those bands florished, Cream became less interesting (even though they dispanded in 68) As for Clapton-great guitar player, but not my cup of tea. His solos seem to be predicable (after you've heard a few) and not all that entertaining for my taste. I think Baker was more of a jazz drummer than anything else and he was techically capable of playing alternate time changes and was creative in his own way-I'm not going to agree fully and say Bonham could wipe the floor with him, (even though JB was a far better all-around drummer) but if he did actually have the nerve to "rate" John Bonham , and as a 3-4 for that matter-he is indeed STUPID! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 What Jack Bruce did on that one Lifetime album he played on was remarkable for the time. Bruce isn't a nice human being but he's a brilliant musician, always has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Chase, I agree with you somewhat on the Bonham comment. I think Cream was a good band for the short time they lasted and I think they inspired Zep in a way. I won't take away from them musically (even though I only care for a handful of tracks) They were a good power/blues-trio. The personalities are a different story. Every interview I've seen has either Bruce or Baker (sometimes drunk) mad at the world in some form or another. (Never having any good words towards Zep, I might add) When I say Zep and Hendrix 'stole their thunder" I mean, taking from the same ingredience and building on it-which I believe inspired Page and Co. Also, as those bands florished, Cream became less interesting (even though they dispanded in 68) As for Clapton-great guitar player, but not my cup of tea. His solos seem to be predicable (after you've heard a few) and not all that entertaining for my taste. I think Baker was more of a jazz drummer than anything else and he was techically capable of playing alternate time changes and was creative in his own way-I'm not going to agree fully and say Bonham could wipe the floor with him, (even though JB was a far better all-around drummer) but if he did actually have the nerve to "rate" John Bonham , and as a 3-4 for that matter-he is indeed STUPID! I agree .. Cream are a very important and influential band... Eric Clapton's songwriting doesn't usually knock me out, but a couple of his solos I've heard were gut wrenching.. Layla at Live Aid for one. Ginger Baker did say it .. I still have the magazine... To be fair though, he was ripping many drummers apart. I respect his playing and his influence and all that .... but he's still an idiot. What Jack Bruce did on that one Lifetime album he played on was remarkable for the time. Bruce isn't a nice human being but he's a brilliant musician, always has been. Absolutely.. I've only heard the "New Lifetime" with Allan Holdsworth. Believe it and Million Dollar Legs..... But I'm going to look into it. One thing Jack Bruce did that was very cool was he played and sang on 2 songs on Bill Ward's solo album "Ward One: Along The Way". Bill Ward was thrilled and Bruce was very respectful towards him. He also is one of the few musicians that received a composer's credit on a Frank Zappa release ... besides Frank Zappa.. He played Bass on the track Apostrophe'... great song. BLT - Bruce Lorden Trower -- also a great album He's an amazing Bassist and a great singer.... I just don't get why he has such jealousy or animosity towards Zeppelin. He's had more than enough success over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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