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TheStairwayRemainsTheSame

Led Zeppelin Official Bootlegs - could this work

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As for Taro's contributions, what else would you expect from a yam?

:lol:

Edited by ledzepfilm

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That's not very much. Which five shows? I can name the following:

·09/01/1970 - Royal Albert Hall (London, England)

·25/06/1972 - The Forum (L.A., California, U.S.A.)

·27/06/1972 - Long Beach Arena (Long Beach, California, U.S.A.)

·27-29/07/1973 - Madison Square Garden (N.Y., N.Y., U.S.A.)

·17-18/05/1975 and 23-25/05/1975 - Earls Court Arena (London, England)

·04/08/1979 and 11/08/1979 - Knebworth (Hertfordshire, England)

Nearly all of which were represented on DVD and How the West Was Won. If you mean the 1977 shows, was Jimmy able to find the multitracks for those? I've always read that he wasn't able to...otherwise, I can't remember what other shows were supposed to have been multitracked - Japan 1971 or 1972 (or both?).

Here is a full list of multitracked shows (or allegidly supposed to)

Circulating (or partially circulating; official release):

Royal Albert Hall - 1/09/1970

LA Fourm - 6/25/1972

Long Beach Arena - 6/27/1972

Southampton - 1/22/1973

Madison Square Garden - 7/27,28,29/1973

Earls Court -5/23,24,25/1975 (23rd has little vocal overdub snippets on the official DVD)

Knebworth Festival - 8/4,11/1979

Uncirculating/Rumored

Japan (various) - 9/23-29/1971

Earls Court 5/17-18/1975

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So you can dish it out but can't take it?

Typical.

What did I "dish [...] out"? Disagreement, albeit with an asshole's tone?

Here is a full list of multitracked shows (or allegidly supposed to)

Circulating (or partially circulating; official release):

Royal Albert Hall - 1/09/1970

LA Fourm - 6/25/1972

Long Beach Arena - 6/27/1972

Southampton - 1/22/1973

Madison Square Garden - 7/27,28,29/1973

Earls Court -5/23,24,25/1975 (23rd has little vocal overdub snippets on the official DVD)

Knebworth Festival - 8/4,11/1979

Uncirculating/Rumored

Japan (various) - 9/23-29/1971

Earls Court 5/17-18/1975

Ah...meant to list Southampton...and I couldn't remember if it was 1971 or 1972 Japan.

Still, not too much. Hopefully the 1977 shows will surface one day - or maybe they did, and Jimmy/Shirley wasn't a fan. (Yes, Reggie, that's postulation...I'm sorry.)

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I would welcome an official bootleg series similar to The Stones Archive site.

There are a few points to keep in mind though.

Download v Physical product

As much as I like physical product the allure of downloads only in practical sense (both in terms of logistics and costs) makes much more sense. It's easier to have releases as downloads only. It may also make commercial sense as these types of releases are geared towards the bigger fans and don't have the commercial appeal regular albums do. A lot has changed since the HTWWW release and people are buying less product these days. I think once of the attractions to the Stones project has been the availability of the new distribution model (i.e. the internet). I would not be surprised if the Stones eventually did release all 6 planned shows in some sort of uber-fan collectable though. Also keep in mind that many Zeppelin shows would run to 3-4 cds and way more lp sides. This would add to costs so a download only option is even more attractive.

Quality of shows - SQ

I'll use the Stones Archive as an example again. Both shows they released so far are amazing quality that were professionally recorded. Indeed the other 4 that I heard were rumoured to be part of the 6 to be released were all professionally recorded. The question is how many shows does Zeppelin have on multitrack and are available in similar quality

Royalties due to songs being covered

Zeppelin covered a lot of songs during their WLL medley's and even threw snippets of other songs in D&C as well. So they will need to get things cleared before anything can be released and if an artist/artist estate wants $500,000 they can ask for that and say no otherwise. So you can expect severly edited Japan 71 medleys or none at all.

What shows to release

Some shows worthy of release have been discussed and many would make worthy releases. Especially doing something like the complete MSG run or the complete as can get EC 75 run. This sort of project would work really well as "official bootlegs" and are typical of hard core fan type releases but could be attractive to the more casual fan as well.

A show like Bath (rumoured to exist on multitrack) may be an example of a show better suited to an official release though I'd buy it either way.

I guess they could do an official outtakes type of thing as well but I think they'd rather save those for any future reissue program of the official albums - which I am sure will happen at some point.

Chances of any of this happening

The chances of anything like this happening are remote and not just normal remote like I live in country side remote but rather I live on the top of a mountain only accessible by one road remote. :)

The edits are seamless, or close to it. Much better than the original. The fucked up part, in my view, is that No Quarter was cut. But you do what you have to I guess...

If a better edit at each edit point could have been done then yeah Shirley is at fault butas far as the edits in general; well he was asked to do them wasn't he? So there's not much blame that he can take in that regard.

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Download v Physical product

As much as I like physical product the allure of downloads only in practical sense (both in terms of logistics and costs) makes much more sense. It's easier to have releases as downloads only. It may also make commercial sense as these types of releases are geared towards the bigger fans and don't have the commercial appeal regular albums do. A lot has changed since the HTWWW release and people are buying less product these days. I think once of the attractions to the Stones project has been the availability of the new distribution model (i.e. the internet). I would not be surprised if the Stones eventually did release all 6 planned shows in some sort of uber-fan collectable though. Also keep in mind that many Zeppelin shows would run to 3-4 cds and way more lp sides. This would add to costs so a download only option is even more attractive.

The Grateful Dead, Phish and Pearl Jam (just to name a few) all played (and in the cases of latter two, continue to play) marathon length shows and that hasn't deterred them from releasing actual compact discs. If this were to ever happen, perhaps Page (and whoever is behind the project) could take the Dylan approach release only one or two albums a years in the series. Dylan's series also includes outtakes and other rarities. I doubt that would ever happen with Zeppelin either but it sure would be nice if it did. Again, it will probably never happen anyway but I would certainly welcome it.

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Still, not too much. Hopefully the 1977 shows will surface one day - or maybe they did, and Jimmy/Shirley wasn't a fan. (Yes, Reggie, that's postulation...I'm sorry.)

There are no 1977 known multitracks, so what do you mean?

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Hi

Like most of you I have a number of downloaded gigs and even a handful of silver discs from when they could be found at reasonable prices (and a lot of CDRs of varying quality). It would be nice to have officially released versions of at least some, especially if the recordings could be properly remastered (although a lot of the released versions are pretty good).

I would like an official Earls Court partly because I was at 2 of the shows (17th and 24th) and a couple of shows from each year, I would probably buy them even if I already have the show. I can't understand why they don't release Southampton 1973 as most of the hard work has already been done.

As for Jimmy buying bootlegs I always thought the shops in Japan let him have what he wanted free, as it was his music anyway.

Andy

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There are no 1977 known multitracks, so what do you mean?

I thought it was fact that there were 1977 multitracks - but that their current whereabouts/existence is unknown.

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So, when someone sells a bootleg that wasn't intended for release and the bootlegger pockets the profits but not the band, that's not ripping them off? By the way, I'm not drinking any sort of Kool-Aid, industry or otherwise. I just think if someone is going to profit off an artists' work, it should be the artist themselves.

Really? You want to get rid of the leeches who profit from an artist's work? Then let's get to work--

"Pay Bo Diddley"

(as recorded by Microwave Dave and the Nukes, sung to the tune of "Hey Bo Diddley)

Bo Diddley had him a rockin' big time,

but he never made a solitary dime.

Ya'll might laugh but it just ain't funny,

Whatever happened to Bo Diddley's money ?

The record man gave him a rag-top car,

said, "Bo, you gonna be a rock 'n roll star.

He didn't know he doing anything wrong,

when he signed away all of his songs.

Whatever happened to Bo Diddley's money?

Whatever happened to Bo Diddley's money?

He drove 'round the world in a station wagon,

workin' the road till his tail was a draggin'

rockin' and a puffin' and makin' 'em dance,

but never once seeing that cash advance.

Whatever happened to Bo Diddley's money ? 4x

Call the FBI, call the IRS, call the BMI, call Leonard Chess.

You know, Bo Diddley never saw enough,

from "I'm a Man" and "Who Do You Love ?".

They just ain't cheatin' some rock 'n roll singer,

remember Bo Diddley is a gun slinger.

Pay Bo Diddley. 4x

That's right.

Pay Bo Diddley.

and Pay Little Richard, too.

While you're at it.

Pay Bo Diddley.

and Little Richard, too

RIP Bo

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A lot has been done in that regard (paying royalties to blues artists who got ripped off by bad deals) but since most of them are gone now, the funds mostly go to their estates. Still, every little bit counts. I know that to name just a couple of artists, Bonnie Raitt and Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top have done a lot of work in that area.

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Billy knows what happened in Houston, to everyone-- even "legendary" Texas artists were struggling-- remember all those R&B Artists on Houston's Peacock Label back in the 50's like Big Momma Thorton, Johnny Ace, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Lightnin' Hopkins? Edgar Winter told me that Leland Rogers (owner of International Artists Records) was the real reason he and Johnny left Houston. Roky Erikson was living in a 1-room apartment over a porno store with his teeth rotting out while still a "living legend" in Austin.

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I guess it seems there are no multitracks of the '77 tour. Interesting sets, but not exactly their best tour. NYC, LA, Landover, SD and some other dates were good, but there were a lot of bad shows on this tour. Not surprising considering the condition of certain elements within the band. Not like ones from years earlier, when there were very few poor performances. Did not like the WLL/RNR encore on this tour. Couldn't stand Robert's use of the harmonizer and Jimmy's tone for these in '77 was not good.

I'm sure some of you will jump on me for this, but JMHO and that's the way I hear it. Some songs stood out like TSRTS/SA, OTHAFW, IMTOD, NQ, Kashmir, BYAS and others on occasion. The first half or so of the concerts seem much better than the latter.

Edited by SuperDave

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I guess it seems there are no multitracks of the '77 tour. Interesting sets, but not exactly their best tour. NYC, LA, Landover, SD and some other dates were good, but there were a lot of bad shows on this tour. Not surprising considering the condition of certain elements within the band. Not like ones from years earlier, when there were very few poor performances. Did not like the WLL/RNR encore on this tour. Couldn't stand Robert's use of the harmonizer and Jimmy's tone for these in '77 was not good.

I'm sure some of you will jump on me for this, but JMHO and that's the way I hear it. Some songs stood out like TSRTS/SA, OTHAFW, IMTOD, NQ, Kashmir, BYAS and others on occasion. The first half or so of the concerts seem much better than the latter.

Meh. It's all a matter of choice. Some of my favourite Zeppelin moments are from 1977.

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I thought it was fact that there were 1977 multitracks - but that their current whereabouts/existence is unknown.

Never heard that actually. I was under the impression that they didn't record any 77 shows professionally. Board tapes exist but that's about it I think.

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I read somewhere that Kramer was approached to record some shows at some point in the 77 tour, but he declined because the band was in such a bad state.

If that's true then not a surprise.

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Taro, you have to admit he did a great job... those edits are pretty seamless to me!

I'm not saying the edits are tangible; I'm just saying they shouldn't have been done.

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I'm not saying the edits are tangible; I'm just saying they shouldn't have been done.

Jimmy was a perfectionist - as we all know - I'm pretty sure that he was told to make it perfect. For the TSRTS reissue, it was his job to make the audio match the visuals. Do you expect him to make a completely different mix just for the album? I would think not. It is factual though that there are a few things different on the album than the film, on Shirley's mix.

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Jimmy was a perfectionist - as we all know - I'm pretty sure that he was told to make it perfect. For the TSRTS reissue, it was his job to make the audio match the visuals. Do you expect him to make a completely different mix just for the album? I would think not.

The original soundtrack album in 1976 was a different mix just for the album - so why not again in '07?

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I read somewhere that Kramer was approached to record some shows at some point in the 77 tour, but he declined because the band was in such a bad state.

Old rumour, which I've never seen substantiated.

My God, the Stones were in a much worse state throughout the 70s...

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1977 saw a good deal of inconsistent performances, and a few truly awful ones.

But listening to the June '77 LA run, there's no doubt they could put together a killer live album - "How the West Was Won Again."

Assuming they recorded all the shows in the run, there are six dates to choose from, and the venue is the same so the acoustics would be consistent from night to night, making for easy patching and editing.

The Song Remains the Same, Sick Again, and Ten Years Gone from either 6-21 or 6-23 would be the best versions officially available, and the Black Country Woman/Bron-Y-Aur Stomp medley is totally unlike any other acoustic-set track that's been released officially.

With a little editing and patching, they could put together totally respectable versions of Kashmir and Achilles.

The entire thing could fit on 3 CDs easily.

It could probably be issued as a totally decent 2 CD set too, if they:

- Left off Battle of Evermore (Jimmy's co-lead vocal is pretty bad, by his own admission)

- Left off the Noise Solo (yuk)

- Made some tough decisions about editing down Over the Top and No Quarter

The excellent Millard audience tapes reveal that June 21 and 23 could be used as the base, with other dates used for filling in gaps and mistakes.

It would be amazing, and they'd sell millions of copies.

Edited by tmtomh

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